Typing the seed - How safe is it?

[Mankov]

Hello,

is it dangerous to type your seed on a keyboard in to the electrum wallet?
How likely is it, that someone can track your seeds?
Should we only use a new installed computer before we do this,
and disconnect from the internet?

I`m scared to type the seeds again in to my laptop.
Can I send my coins safely  to a ledger s without reopen my electrum wallet?

[Csmiami]

If your computer is 100% clean, there should be no issue doing it. HOWEVER, and it's a big however, would you really risk your funds? Seeds should only be typed once; to recover a wallet and sweep it into another safe one; discarding said seed for security reasons.

There is no law prohibiting you from re-using a "burnt" seed, but same question again; would you really risk your funds over a slim chance of losing them?

Answering your last question; you can move funds on electrum without typing the seed again, you only need the wallet file and the password. If you don't have any or one of those, you'll have to type the seed to restore the wallet (and moving the funds out of there ASAP).

[HCP]

I`m scared to type the seeds again in to my laptop.
Can I send my coins safely  to a ledger s without reopen my electrum wallet?

Why do you need to retype your seeds? Did you delete your Electrum wallet file?

If you still have the wallet file, you should be able to open it with Electrum without needing to enter your seed. Then you can simple connect your Nano S to Electrum using the "New/Restore -> Standard wallet -> Use a hardware device"... and send all your coins from your old wallet to an address from your Nano S wallet.

[Mankov]

Seeds should only be typed once
you can move funds on electrum without typing the seed again,
you only need the wallet file and the password.
If you don't have any or one of those,
you'll have to type the seed to restore the wallet (and moving the funds out of there ASAP).

Ok. Thank you. Never heard, that we should only use a seed onetime.
But what is about Meta Mask? There you only have a seed. And I don`t like to
have it all time on my computer. I only install it when I need it. So I have to type the seed in.

For Electrum I have the wallet-files on several usb-sticks.
But so I must type the password into electrum to get my funds on ledger, right?
Is this safer than typing the seed?

[Csmiami]

Ok. Thank you. Never heard, the we should only use a seed onetime.
But what is about Meta Mask? There you only have a seed. And I don`t like to
have it all time on my computer. I only install it when I need it.

Metamask is an application for Ethereum, which runs importing the private key if things have not changed; nothing to do with seeds or Bitcoin.

May I ask how you store the key you inport in metamask? Keeping a digital copy of any private key is a perfect way of loosing your funds...

For Electrum I have the wallet-files, too.
But so I must type the password into electrum to get my funds on ledger, right?
Is this safer than typing the seed?

You must type the password to access the wallet file, and to confirm the transaction. You should also proceed very carefully when typing it; but the attacker would need to either have remote access to your computer to create the transaction there, or a copy of the wallet file. If he gets access to the seed, he just needs to recover and sweep. In both situations you can end with a balance of 0, but the way to it is a bit different.

Even if I despise Ledger, you could install Ledger Live if you are going to be operating on multiple currencies, you can control everything from there (the hardware device).

[Mankov]

Ok. Thank you. Never heard, the we should only use a seed onetime.
But what is about Meta Mask? There you only have a seed. And I don`t like to
have it all time on my computer. I only install it when I need it.

Metamask is an application for Ethereum, which runs importing the private key if things have not changed; nothing to do with seeds or Bitcoin.

Yes, but you have to type in the seed to get in to the account if metamask is not installed anymore.

May I ask how you store the key you inport in metamask? Keeping a digital copy of any private key is a perfect way of loosing your funds...

On a metal plate, and papers.

For Electrum I have the wallet-files, too.
But so I must type the password into electrum to get my funds on ledger, right?
Is this safer than typing the seed?

You must type the password to access the wallet file, and to confirm the transaction. You should also proceed very carefully when typing it; but the attacker would need to either have remote access to your computer to create the transaction there, or a copy of the wallet file. If he gets access to the seed, he just needs to recover and sweep. In both situations you can end with a balance of 0, but the way to it is a bit different.

Even if I despise Ledger, you could install Ledger Live if you are going to be operating on multiple currencies, you can control everything from there (the hardware device).

[Mankov]

What is your favourite wallet?
How do you store your bitcoins?

[Mankov]

There is no law prohibiting you from re-using a "burnt" seed, but same question again; would you really risk your funds over a slim chance of losing them?

But why is it so dangerous using a seed several times?
You also do this with passwords on websites (bank account, paypal,...)
I never change my passwords on websites.

BTW I don`t have a problem using electrum.
And I would love to just keep my funds there.


But If ledger is safer, why should I use electrum?

[bitmover]

But why is it so dangerous using a seed several times?

Because your computer might be infected, someone might be watching and you can never be 100% sure.

You also do this with passwords on websites (bank account, paypal,...)
I never change my passwords on websites.

Because if someone try to make a HUGE transaction cleaning up your bank account from an unkown location with your bank account password, the bank security system will detect it as a probably fraud and will block your account. There is no similar security system in the bitcoin network, as you are the only responsible for your funds safety

But If ledger is safer, why should I use electrum?

You can use both at the same time.
Ledger is a device. It is a safe way to generated your seed. It will be genereted inside the device. The seed will never even touch your computer screen.

You can plug the ledger nano device in your computer and use it with electrum software to make transactions.

You should use electrm because it allows more control over your private keys, addresses, UTXOs, etc.

For example, Electrum allows you to choose from which address you would like to spend. It also allows you to fully customize fees.

What is your favourite wallet?
How do you store your bitcoins?

My favorite wallet is electrum, and I use it with my ledger nano. Ledger nano hold the keys, and the electrum is the interface I use to manage the keys.

[Mankov]

Ok. So you recommend using ledger and electrum at the same time?
And never Electrum alone?

Guess, I´ll buy some ledgers. Do you recommend to safe
bitcoins in several ledgers or is one safe enough?
Example 1 Bitcoin in the first Ledger,
1 Bitcoin in the second ledger, and so on.

Thank you.

[NotATether]

Depends heavily on your operating system and the kind of programs that you installed on it.

If you are using Windows and you have a bunch of bloatware installed like registry cleaners, system "scanners", random accessories and other stuff that you downloaded from sites riddled with ads, then I would think twice before typing your seed in such a system. By definition, when there's a lot of bloatware on your system, chances are there is at least one spyware running in the background without you knowing. Unfortunately, companies that make free ad-supported Windows apps sometimes don't care about whether it can be exploited to do malicious things.

If you are using a Windows box which you have not installed random stuff on, or a Mac or Linux box, odds are very likely that your system is perfectly clean and nothing malicious is installed on it. But if you're paranoid then disconnecting from the internet while you type your seed should make you less apprehensive (though as I said there's likely nothing malicious running in the first place, or else you'd notice erratic operating system behavior!)

There is no law prohibiting you from re-using a "burnt" seed, but same question again; would you really risk your funds over a slim chance of losing them?

But why is it so dangerous using a seed several times?
You also do this with passwords on websites (bank account, paypal,...)
I never change my passwords on websites.

BTW I don`t have a problem using electrum.
And I would love to just keep my funds there.


But If ledger is safer, why should I use electrum?

I'm probably riding against the tide most people are on here, but-

Again, as long as you know your system is clean, nothing's going to happen if you type your seed again or if you use Electrum by itself.

As long as you're not holding substantial amounts of bitcoin, Electrum by itself on a properly cared-for system is just fine Even if you're holding lots of money on a Ledger Nano S for example, then you need to plug it into a computer running Electrum to spend bitcoins inside it anyway. So in that particular case you'd need to use both of them.

[Csmiami]

----

That is completely up to you; but if you want to further segregate funds, you can set up a passphraze instead of buying multiple devices. I'm not 100% sure electrum allows this feature, as I've never tried to do such a thing there; but Ledger Live may just do the trick for that.

[khaled0111]

If you believe your device is compromised then you should move your funds to your hardware wallet asap or use Electrum to create an offline wallet.
Here is a detailed guide on how to set up a cold storage wallet using Electrum:
https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html
This way, you will not have to expose your seed or your password every time you need to create a transaction.

[Mankov]

Ok. Thank you.
Guess I`ll buy a new laptop only for bitcoin-transactions.
And not using a ledger.
I think this is safe enough. But, yes, I`m paranoid.
Too much worry about unlikely things.

[bitmover]

Ok. So you recommend using ledger and electrum at the same time?
And never Electrum alone?

Guess, I´ll buy some ledgers. Do you recommend to safe
bitcoins in several ledgers or is one safe enough?
Example 1 Bitcoin in the first Ledger,
1 Bitcoin in the second ledger, and so on.

Thank you.

One device is enough

You can create multiple seeds with the same device. Just keep them safe in a price of paper. Never type them in any computer.

I suggest that you study more about bitcoin before buying substantial amount.
I think antonopoulos videos in YouTube or his book mastering bitcoin is a great start.

[ranochigo]

Disconnecting your internet when using Electrum is not sufficient. If you want to be foolproof, you have to set up a dedicated computer that doesn't go online and handles all your transaction signing. It is also known as an airgapped wallet. Those are slightly fussy to maintain and use but are fairly safe for most use cases.

If you want to have the convenience and not worry about leaking your sensitive information, you should be looking at hardware wallets. They can be used with any online computers as the seeds are kept within the device and it won't be leaked to the online computer. For newbies, it'd be far more convenient to use a hardware wallet instead of a cold storage. Both can be used with Electrum but it depends on which route you want to go.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm not 100% sure electrum allows this feature, as I've never tried to do such a thing there; but Ledger Live may just do the trick for that.

It does. Electrum supports additional passphrases both on software wallets you have created or restore via Electrum, as well as opening different wallets using different passphrases which you input in to your Ledger device.

Guess I`ll buy a new laptop only for bitcoin-transactions.
And not using a ledger.
I think this is safe enough. But, yes, I`m paranoid.

Better to be paranoid and safe than lose all your coins. If you need to save some money, you could also buy a Raspberry Pi for $40-50 instead of a whole new laptop, provided you have the necessary hardware (monitors, keyboards, etc.) to get it working.

Whichever route you go, the most important steps are to format the new device once you get it, keep it permanently offline (physically unplug any connectivity hardware if you can), choose an open source Linux distro and verify it before installing, verify Electrum before installing, and to download these on a different device and transfer them to the new device via removable media.

[bob123]

Is this safer than typing the seed?

In theory this is completely irrelevant.
If your device is compromised, it is compromised. Regardless of whether you enter the mnemonic code into an application or open your wallet file.

But why is it so dangerous using a seed several times?
You also do this with passwords on websites (bank account, paypal,...)

Do you mean that you use the same password across multiple sites? If that's the case, you might want to overthink what you are doing... That's definitely not the proper way.

It is "more dangerous" to enter the mnemonic code multiple times if you enter them into different devices or if there is a risk that your device got compromised in the meantime.


I think a hardware wallet would be a better alternative for you. It is easier to use than an offline setup and less error-prone.

[Mankov]

Hello

can I just copy the private keys form electrum into ledger nano,
instead of sending the bitcoins to it, to avoid fees?
Or is that the worst way to to it?

[Csmiami]

---

If it's doable (which I doubt), it would most definately be the worst way to proceed. If fees are an issue for you, you could always try sending at 1 satoshi/byte; and even if it takes a long time (some days) to confirm, you'll be paying the least you could (this is usually a few thousand satoshis at most 0.00001000-ish)