Sales of bitcointalk account must be discouraged

[Oshosondy]

I could have posted this on meta board but here can make it more accessible to newbies, it is about selling of bitcointalk accounts. To sell bitcointalk account, it should be discouraged, it is even included in bitcointalk unofficial rules number 18 but does not mean if you still think you have to buy already ranked account but if anything happen to the account that got your bought account not able to access this forum again, you will have to face the consequences.

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

I have been thinking for the reasons account sales should be discouraged, I know there will be reasons for such statements that we members must abide to. I think very well and find these reasons useful why accounts sales should be discouraged.

Reasons why accounts sales must be discouraged
I hope newbies will like to now know the reasons, they need to read these before attempting to buy bitcointalk account, this article will educate them why they should avoid to by ranked membership account.

1. Not supported by bitcointalk admin
There has been thread before about bitcointalk forum to be selling ranked accounts in the past, but according to theymos it will not happen.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4419950.msg39398356#msg39398356

Bitcointalk is not in support of account sales, then why want to buy one underground because people that boldly want to sell account here if noticed will be tagged red which to me if proper.

2. Hacked accounts can be sold
There are in history of this forum some members account are hacked and taken control over by the hackers, the hackers will not think twice in many cases to sell the account as be sold. The person that bought the account will happily make his first post while the account owner will report that his account has been compromised. If he signed staked address he will be given back the account thereby leading to the buyers to lost money.

3. Other fraudulent activities
The above is just a single fraud reason while there are still many other fraudulent reason s account can be bought, it can be bought by scammers to make people to trust the account and be used against good members on the forum. This type of scam can range from using the account to borrow bitcoin, do escrow service and take the bitcoin and exit to anything you can possibly think of scammers can achieved through that. This is the main reason I even hate sales of account. And the reason I proposed official seeling of account by admin which can possibly lead people selling account underground not to be able to again.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5310026.0

But this led to downturn because of some good reasons provided by some good members.

4. New members not knowing about the forum at all
Newbies do not know about the forum at all, all they know if what they read online that bitcointalk signature can be used to earn up to 0.0003 btc per post like I read it online in 2020. From the same site you I read that a member can have up to 10 accounts, that you can buy account at a cost of $500 for legendary, $400 for hero and $300 for Sr member, though I do not fully remember the amount but appropriately correct. All these are lies, the merit system do not make it easy to have two accounts because building two accounts is difficult.

5. Bought accounts can be banned and most likely will be banned
I was wondering before why legendary account and hero accounts are banned, later I noticed some can be bought accounts, newbies do not know about the forum, bought ranked membership account and was banned because he violate the forum rules which likely to occur to newbies, this is likely common the reason you should pass through the newbie period by opening newbie account for good.

6. Thinking they will buy account and join signature campaign quickly
Newbies know nothing about this forum, all they think is that they will buy account and join signature campaign immediately, not knowing all signature campaigns have one same rule, that a member to participate he must have at least 5 merits received in the last 120 days, but to get the merit will be difficult for newbies that bought account. Also that is just the rule, you will see campaign managers only taking people that have more than 50 to 100 merits while leaving the rest because slot are very limited, then when will you get up to that merits. Psychologically thinking, account sellers even leave no smerits at all and the account do not have single merit in the last 120 days.

Newbies, build your account yourself than buying what that might not be real, do not put yourself at risk, buying bitcointalk account is dangerous because you will still post like newbies.

[2double0]

The last reason #6 is not easily possible even for the best accounts sold to any buyer because of the language change. If the account buyer does not meet the standards of the previous owner, it will become very easy for the community to quickly identify that it was a bought account and will tag them. Why are you asking for it to be discouraged when it is already being done by so many DT members and they quickly tag anyone they know of having a bought account?

[Oshosondy]

Why are you asking for it to be discouraged when it is already being done by so many DT members and they quickly tag anyone they know of having a bought account?

So that newbies can learn about some reasons why they should not buy ranked membership accounts. Newbies do not know about this forum like we do, they can buy account thinking it is safe and expecting to join signature campaign because that is the reason most likely they are buying ranked membership accounts. But they will later know it does not work like that. I have seen an account that has no merit for last 120 days and posted in chipmixer campaign thread applying to join and another account of the same type posted in bestchange also applied to join one or two months ago while both campaigns remain closed till jow. You can easily know that they are newbies, if they have known, they will know joining chipmixer and bestchange campaign is not easy at all and require more than just being ranked member and of which they will later know their money is wasted on bought account.

[The Cryptovator]

Since the topic dedicated to newbies, I think it's more fit in Beginners & Help section. Honestly, lots of posts have been made to discourage buying Bitcointalk accounts. But it hasn't stopped yet since there are many account farmers. We can't prevent selling accounts since it has been happening even off-forum. Most probably that's why admin isn't so strict banning account sales. Anyway, many DT members against selling accounts, and many hunters exposing account sellers as well.

[2double0]

You can easily know that they are newbies, if they have known, they will know joining chipmixer and bestchange campaign is not easy at all and require more than just being ranked member and of which they will later know their money is wasted on bought account.

Why are you pointing out only high paying campaigns? There are many campaigns which give nearly as same payments as bestchange and they are also not easy to get enrolled in (because most of these campaigns remain full all the time and even when they open, they are flooded with so many applications that it becomes very hard for the manager to decide whom to be enrolled). Newbies should also be encouraged to buy copper membership if they are interested in posting like a high rank member. Though, novices will still fall for these accounts and buy them based on different intentions. And FYI, Chipmixer doesn't look solely for merits and give chance to posters even with 0 merits if DS_ like their quality.

[yahoo62278]

I would have merited this topic had I not seen your other topic from 4 days ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5310026.0. Are you for account sales or are you against them? Seems like you have mixed feelings and don't know what you are for, just hoping these posts get you merits maybe?

[GazetaBitcoin]

Selling accounts actually is discouraged, according to forum rules:

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

And you also stated that in OP.

To sell bitcointalk account, it should be discouraged, it is even included in bitcointalk unofficial rules number 18 but does not mean if you still think you have to buy already ranked account but if anything happen to the account that got your bought account not able to access this forum again, you will have to face the consequences.

Besides, bought accounts are also tagged when they are caught. What else would you like to do? It's against the rules and cheaters are revealed through adequate feedback. Is there anything else do to

I would have merited this topic had I not seen your other topic from 4 days ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5310026.0. Are you for account sales or are you against them? Seems like you have mixed feelings

Lol, good question indeed!

[Oshosondy]

Since the topic dedicated to newbies, I think it's more fit in Beginners & Help section.

I have moved it to Beginners and Help already, thanks for the suggestion, I even thought I created it in Beginners and help before.

I would have merited this topic had I not seen your other topic from 4 days ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5310026.0. Are you for account sales or are you against them? Seems like you have mixed feelings and don't know what you are for, just hoping these posts get you merits maybe?

I was only thinking of how account sales can be avoided or to be done legally but with the replies from the previous topic which you are talking about I gained it is even better for admin not to sell account at all according to theymos post about it in which admin do not want it at all. But in both topics I strongly against underground account sales which makes me consider to make this topic for newbies. I do not support account sales at all, I hate it when newbies will come to the forum with bought account having no merit in the last 120 days, post in one of the campaigns you are managing which he thinks it is the rule and not competent to build the account further which means his money lost because such accounts are bought. There are some campaign managers will request for Bech32 addresses but bought account newbies without no merit in 120 days still pasting legacy address to apply which indicates the person bought the account and the account will probably remain useless, so starting new will be great and my advice for newbies.

I would have merited this topic had I not seen your other topic from 4 days ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5310026.0. Are you for account sales or are you against them? Seems like you have mixed feelings

Lol, good question indeed!

Brought the suggestion in the previous tooic to discourage underground sales of account and I learned alot which I used to make this new topic with many things I think could possibly be the reason account sales should be discouraged. LoyceV was the first person to post and corrected me which I accepted after seeing theymos post which I also included in this topic.

[Stedsm]

You're saying that the admin does not want it at all for anyone to sell/buy accounts, but theymos never showed any regrets for the same nor he personally stopped any of us for this. He simply said that it's allowed which means nobody's committing a crime if they do this, it's just that it is going to be discouraged because community doesn't like it at all.

[tranthidung]

1. Not supported by bitcointalk admin
There has been thread before about bitcointalk forum to be selling ranked accounts in the past, but according to theymos it will not happen.

Those topics come from account sellers, hackers, not from the forum. You missed one point here.

2. Hacked accounts can be sold
The person that bought the account will happily make his first post while the account owner will report that his account has been compromised. If he signed staked address he will be given back the account thereby leading to the buyers to lost money.

There are 3 scenarios to lose money:

• Get scammed by account sellers. You go first with your money but don't receive any account back.
• The real owner of account manages to get the sold account back shortly. It won't happen too often as most of sold accounts are very old ones (from hacks years ago AND real onwers almost left the forum or forgot about their hacked accounts)
• The bought account can be locked by the forum by security reasons. Account buyers won't be able to prove ownership and unlock it

3. Other fraudulent activities
~ snip ~
This is the main reason I even hate sales of account. And the reason I proposed official seeling of account by admin which can possibly lead people selling account underground not to be able to again.

Account buyers mostly buy it for bad reasons:

• To run their scam projects, to do scam activities (no-collateral loan, big off-Escrow trades, etc.) but there is no point that account sales from the forum can prevent such the things.
• The forum can not ask the buyers to send any amount of bitcoin as security deposit for scam prevention.
• It is unrealistic, even it is applied, how long the security deposit will be released? Again, it is unrealistic and impossible.

4. New members not knowing about the forum at all

Account buyers are not newbies. You know that. Newbies don't know the forum enough to think of buying account for scam/ fraudulent activities.

5. Bought accounts can be banned and most likely will be banned
I was wondering before why legendary account and hero accounts are banned, later I noticed some can be bought accounts, newbies do not know about the forum, bought ranked membership account and was banned because he violate the forum rules which likely to occur to newbies, this is likely common the reason you should pass through the newbie period by opening newbie account for good.

Bought accounts can be banned for past rule-breaking activities (mostly are plagiarsim years ago) or from new owners. However, real owners who buy accounts to scam, don't mind when it will be banned. It is throw-away account.

6. Thinking they will buy account and join signature campaign quickly
Psychologically thinking, account sellers even leave no smerits at all and the account do not have single merit in the last 120 days.

Earned 0 merit in last 120 days or a lot from abuse, it does not make sense and won't help them to get spots in good campaigns. Professional managers exclude them at very first screening rounds. Again, they are not real newbies!

Don't expand your posts too lengthy that looks like your style which is bad and does not help you to earn merit. You will have higher odds to earn merit, with same contents and shorter posts.

[testbug]

Is this a real problem? Many Accounts being sold?
No good thing to buy a "used" account, i also think that most accounts, if they are on the marked, are "hacked" accounts or account with very weak passwords.

I can only suggest you use a propper password (not the password of your email account) and enable 2fa on all services which supports 2fa (two facto authentication).
The last big data breach on bitcointalk.org is as far as i konw back from 2015
see here: haveibeenpwnd.com (safe to use):

Bitcoin Talk: In May 2015, the Bitcoin forum Bitcoin Talk was hacked and over 500k unique email addresses were exposed. The attack led to the exposure of a raft of personal data including usernames, email and IP addresses, genders, birth dates, security questions and MD5 hashes of their answers plus hashes of the passwords themselves.

Compromised data: Dates of birth, Email addresses, Genders, IP addresses, Passwords, Security questions and answers, Usernames, Website activity

500k unique email accounts, i am prety sure, that now, almost 6 years later there are much more useraccounts here.

[lovesmayfamilis]

Point 5 is also not true. No one will ban this account unless the owner himself contributes to this. But the OP contradicts itself. If, as he puts it, "most likely they will be banned", then the rule would be that the purchase of accounts is prohibited.
I also agree with yahoo62278.
 Two topics about buying and selling accounts for what? OP, you are very concerned about "decoding the rules." And you always interpret them in your way.
If you look at your topics, they always contain guidelines for the correct behavior on the forum, and as a result, it seems that you do not fully understand the essence of the forum.
Ranking, merit gains, and the rest blah blah, everything in your topics are to continue to participate in subscription campaigns.

This is the whole point of being on the forum?

[Rikafip]

Newbies, build your account yourself than buying what that might not be real, do not put yourself at risk, buying bitcointalk account is dangerous because you will still post like newbies

Truth to be told, many high ranking members do post like newbies so no one would probably notice the difference   

Joke aside, both account buyers and sellers are already being tagged so sake is already discouraged. If you ban it all together here, they will just do it elsewhere, as they are doing it already, sales we see on the forum are probably just the fraction of what is really going on. There is simply no easy solution for this, as long there is demand for high ranking accounts (and there is) there will be supply.

[DdmrDdmr]

It’s a rather controversial subject. Account sales are not prohibited, probably because it would be futile, as people would perform the purchasing transactions out of plain sight, and there is no real way to enforce it anyway.

They could be prohibited though, and then when a suspect sold account is detected, "someone" would need to determine if there is evidence enough one way or the other (through posting style and content history, habits, etc.). Certainly not an easy nor pleasant task, and probably also rather difficult to be really certain whether the account is, in effect, a purchased one.

Purchased accounts are likely used mainly to try to participate in campaigns, skipping the line versus those who build their rank over time. It’s unethical by all means, and constitutes a grievance to those that build their accounts over an extended period of time, often with quite a lot of effort.
 
People, especially those that have not been on the forum for long, tend to trust higher ranked accounts. Scammers may try to purchase an account to play on the inherent trust people put into ranks, although I’m pretty sure there are way more scam attempts from new/recent accounts that purchased ones.

Of course, the account purchaser (and seller) incurs in all sort of risks, ranging from the account being banned if the prior posting history contains rule infringements, to the account receiving negative trust if it is a suspected purchase.
This latter aspect, the negative tagging, is at the heart of controversy. In theory, it should be because of a commerce related fault. Tagging a purchased account because he may scam, or may participate in a campaign is stretching it a bit. If the account scams, then by all means it should be tagged. If it participates in a campaign, one could say he’s taking someone else slot, but then so would alt accounts (which are not prohibited in broad terms). Neutral seems more adequate in this type of case, as a warning just in case, but here there is not set consensus on the procedure.

[Coyster]

Imo, threads that talk so much about account sales could be counterproductive, when the term "account sales" is constantly brought to the eyes of newbies, it could pique their interest, they will prolly see it as a shortcut and then try to find out how they would buy an account for themselves, forgetting about putting in any effort whatsoever.

Having said that, account sales are already discourage, so that's that, but come what may, there'll be many that will go without being caught, others won't be so lucky, it is what it is, you can't stop every dishonest activity, and there is actually no need reminding newbies that there is a shortcut for them to follow (even when it's done unintentionally).

[RabbiTANK]

Buying things off any members on here should be discouraged because there is no form of escrow on this forum, this forum is also not a store for buying and selling of goods, I hope people listen to this advice as there are some who are still practicing it today

[qwertyup23]

Not just discouraged but more importantly, prohibited.

Selling of bitcointalk accounts should be prohibited due to the several reasons you mentioned. Lots of sold accounts are subsequently banned, if not, applied negative trust so I really do not see the reason on why people purchase these accounts.

In addition, lots of forum members are constantly checking some accounts that are alleged to have been sold/bought. Nevertheless, I really do think that selling/purchasing of these accounts should be absolutely prohibited at all cost due to its destructive nature in the forum.

[GeorgeJohn]

But I want to know while selling of bitcointalk account is not prohibited, these remind me of previous topic were we deliberated of selling of forum account to another user, many people were like emphasising that to sell account is not prohibited, which we know that account sold to another user can cause different issues to whom that bought it, because the account might be used for abnormal commitment which the buyer would not  notice during the period of been purchasing the account, so from these perspective is very ethnical that selling of account is not prohibited, but it suppose to be prohibited due to certain factors behind it's implications.

[tranthidung]

which we know that account sold to another user can cause different issues to whom that bought it

Buyers take risk and they deserve any consequence at the ends.

Account selling has more consequence for the forum and forum members: spam, scam, loan default, troll, etc. Those consequences are bigger than anything will happen with buyers.

[Ryushin]

Buying things off any members on here should be discouraged because there is no form of escrow on this forum, this forum is also not a store for buying and selling of goods, I hope people listen to this advice as there are some who are still practicing it today

You aren't reading the whole explanation correctly before making comments, OP is talking about buying bitcointalk accounts from people but it makes sense to add your points as well, some members are going to scam you if you don't use any form of escrow too