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Author Topic: Reasons to avoid Bitcointalk.org post on honestproscons.com  (Read 297 times)
sukbir (OP)
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February 02, 2021, 08:31:04 AM
Merited by notblox1 (1)
 #1




I have found news article regarding bitcointalk.org while using my reddit account. I have been using bitcointalk since 2019 I have no problem but I don't know what writer want to say about our forum. I think Merit system, user rank is a good rules for forum user because it control scam and fake post.

source: https://honestproscons.com/


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February 02, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Last edit: February 02, 2021, 09:55:06 AM by BlackHatCoiner
Merited by vapourminer (6), Foxpup (5), DdmrDdmr (1), TheBeardedBaby (1), GazetaBitcoin (1)
 #2

I read this terrible article and I'd like to comment it.

Quote
The only way to get rid of “newbie” status and become a more senior member is to get Merit from other users.  A user can give Merit to others only if he has received Merit himself first. Merit is produced by the founding users of Bitcointalk and their close circle, who distribute it to the users they like so-called “The Bitcointalk Elite”. The problem is that this “Bitcointalk Elite” will never give Merit to a new user, and neither does other established users. It will require a very long chain of users until the Merit will reach a new user, so this happens very rarely. Established users give Merit only to each other, which boosts their ranking, while new users stay as newbies for a long time since no one gives them Merit.
Merits are the incentive for users to make high quality posts. The merit count on each member's profile page shows how much he/she has helped. Anyone that finds someone's post useful, helpful or even funny can send merits to it and this is how I justify it. If the new user's posts are one of the above for the community, then they'll be merited.

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The Merit system is the reason and cause for all unfairness on Bitcoitalk forum. It’s the tool that is used to separate users based on their “authority” and to give them different privileges.
Why unfairness? Because some trustworthy members are chosen to distribute their sMerits objectively?

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On the paper, the Trust system sounds like a good idea. People give positive trust as good feedback for a successful transaction and negative trust if someone scammed or tried to scam them. However, in reality, it doesn’t work like that.
First of all, Trust feedback from the senior member has more weight than Trust feedback from a junior member, especially a newbie.
OF COURSE IT DOES. How can you convince me that the newbie isn't a scammer? I don't know about you, but I would surely prefer to read someone's feedback that has been here for more than 2 years, than a newbie that can be one of the thousands spamming accounts that are created every day.

Quote
Another problem is that senior members usually give negative Trust not because of scam, but because they simply didn’t like that the new member did or say.
Sorry for giving negative trust to one out of one thousand newbies that is not a scammer. Although, I don't believe that there is a high-ranked user that'll send negative feedback for no reason.

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These reasons completely ruin the idea of the Trust score and turn it into another tool for bullying new members.
Let's assume that newbies' negative feedback was equal with Senior's negative feedback. Anyone would be able to create a new account and threaten anyone for a negative feedback. Who's the bully now? I personally don't believe that someone would create an account, reach its rank to Senior after 8.5 months and then start doing BS for no reason. (Not to mention that he/she has to reach 250 merits first)

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Newbies cannot send personal messages to other users unless those users have particularly allowed newbies to write to them. Most don’t allow, since that’s the default setting. This often creates silly situations where two new members cannot message each other, since they both have that limitation set up.
You know what? I believe that you have confused this forum's purpose. This is bitcointalk, a serious forum with an innovative and world-chaning project, not a colorful-funny-rpg-forum with few members and a disappointing moderation team. Bitcointalk's private messaging system could be easily abused if some people decide to spam on everyone's PMs with advertisements. Even with all these restrictions, there are still newbies creating new topics with their links to improve their SEO.

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This is not such an important feature, as the post signature is mainly used for advertising. But it’s still unfair that new members cannot ad links, or images to their signature like more senior users can.
No one can insert images. Exactly because of the reason I explained above. This is not a forum to wear signatures like:



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In some cases, if you try to sign-up from an IP that a suspended account has used before, you must pay a ransom to register. The fee is usually a few dollars, but in one case a user found it to be 3640453 satoshis, which is around $1300 at today’s rate; quite a large fee to use a “free” forum.

If that IP was really used for spam, why should the new user pay the fine, for something he didn’t do? This certainly does not sound fair and is a terrible way to welcome a new member.
I believe that you haven't understood how many spammers are registering an account everyday here. I guess that this is a solution to reduce their attempts. Even if this means that no one can use Tor or some VPNs.

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While some Bitcointalk members help new users and answer questions, all opinion, either right or wrong are met with bullying, laughs and even rude replies. Thus it’s hard to have any meaningful discussion or promote your new website or service. Bitcointalk.org possibly has the most toxic cryptocurrency community.
I don't know about you, but I have never seen a newbie asking for help and getting bullying and rude replies. I only see friendly posts containing useful answers to their problems. As for the "toxic", you clearly haven't been on another forum again.

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It’s better to avoid Bitcointalk. There are a lot other Bitcoin and cryptocurrency forums as well as other platforms where you can write and discuss about cryptocurrencies. Thus there’s no need to go to Bitcointalk.org when you are obviously not welcome there.
You're clearly not welcomed.

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aesma
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February 02, 2021, 09:58:20 AM
 #3

I think the author would like a place where you can chill for anything without any repercussion. Of course it's good that if you propose a bad idea/product, you get criticism !

And the merit system, along with stats in general (activity, number of posts) helps in deciding if someone is worthy of listening to or not. It doesn't mean a newbie cannot make a good point, and we were all newbies once, but it's proper that it takes some time and effort to rise in ranks.

I have invited someone I know to post here because he could benefit from earning some sats in signature campaigns eventually, and I know he's not going to shitpost, in the end he found it was too much work and only made a few posts. That's how it should be.
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February 02, 2021, 10:03:24 AM
 #4

I think the author would like a place where you can chill for anything without any repercussion. Of course it's good that if you propose a bad idea/product, you get criticism !

And the merit system, along with stats in general (activity, number of posts) helps in deciding if someone is worthy of listening to or not. It doesn't mean a newbie cannot make a good point, and we were all newbies once, but it's proper that it takes some time and effort to rise in ranks.

I have invited someone I know to post here because he could benefit from earning some sats in signature campaigns eventually, and I know he's not going to shitpost, in the end he found it was too much work and only made a few posts. That's how it should be.
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February 02, 2021, 12:23:03 PM
Merited by notblox1 (1)
 #5

This seems to be the author’s account here on Bitcointalk: poutintsev.

Making and objective truthful review on the forum is likely mission impossible. To provide an opinion you need to get to know the platform and all it’s inners, which places one more on a subjective plain than anything else. As such, we all have different experiences here, which may even vary overtime.

Now when we gather a bunch of negative feedback (as is the reviewer’s case), and the vast majority of our posts have been rants about this and that since then, it’s pretty obvious that the outcome is going to be as depicted in the review.

Many could write something with arguments playing in the other direction, as that is the experience here for many (likely more positive than negative cases overall).

This is all objective related really. If one wants to create an account and place a few queries, he’s not going to normally come off with a negative experience.
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February 02, 2021, 01:51:09 PM
 #6

If no one can to use Tor or VPN, several member who care about privacy would leave this forum, including those who make good contribution.
I didn't say that it's great to disallow connecting through tor, but I guess that's something Admins have weighted and concluded if it's good or not. Furthermore, if a member contributes and cares about his privacy, he can choose a VPN and go with it. Banning IPs makes spammers not able to use the same VPN service.

Their domain should be biasedproscons.com. But it's surprising the author still put bitcointalk.org at 3rd position (of total 8 places) on this article (Where to write about cryptocurrencies?) despite the major criticism.
LMAO!

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February 02, 2021, 10:03:13 PM
 #7

The person behind the article is obvious some butt hurt scammer or spammer who was busted and had their account negged. So by trying to write such articles, they think it will stop new users from registering here of which he's wasting his time on. I don't think anyone with good intentions would find is so hard in this forum

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February 02, 2021, 11:02:37 PM
 #8

This article written by Filip Poutintsev is full of lies, false information and half-truths, and we all know bitcointalk has it's flaws and it's far from perfect, but show me better Bitcoin crypto forum if you can.
Some things he said can be improved and changed in forum and criticism is not always a bad thing,  but knowing that Filip is ICO advisor and self proclaimed expert can tell us potential reason why he wrote that article:
His website: http://poutintsev.com/

Quote
Cronyism and paranoia
I have never seen such cronyism and paranoia anywhere. Even the politicians would be astounded. The forum is run by the so-called “The Bitcointalk Elite” who have a very negative attitude towards new members. Thus all new members lack many forum features that are available for more senior users.

I didn't notice this negative attitude towards new members, and I was a newbie not so long ago.

Quote
Merit system
The only way to get rid of “newbie” status and become a more senior member is to get Merit from other users.  A user can give Merit to others only if he has received Merit himself first. Merit is produced by the founding users of Bitcointalk and their close circle, who distribute it to the users they like so-called “The Bitcointalk Elite”. The problem is that this “Bitcointalk Elite” will never give Merit to a new user, and neither does other established users. It will require a very long chain of users until the Merit will reach a new user, so this happens very rarely. Established users give Merit only to each other, which boosts their ranking, while new users stay as newbies for a long time since no one gives them Merit.

If nobody is giving merits to new users how then are people ranking up all the time, including myself? Smiley
Newbies become junior members very quickly and data can confirm this.

Quote
Trust system
Another problem is that senior members usually give negative Trust not because of scam, but because they simply didn’t like that the new member did or say.

Maybe Filip got negative feedback from someone when he promoted his new ICO scheme Smiley
And yes he did: poutintsev

Quote
Other features that ruin the user experience for new members
- Cannot delete your own posts.

I never heard that members can't delete their own posts.
I can, maybe Filip didn't know how.

Quote
General negative attitude
While some Bitcointalk members help new users and answer questions, all opinion, either right or wrong are met with bullying, laughs and even rude replies. Thus it’s hard to have any meaningful discussion or promote your new website or service. Bitcointalk.org possibly has the most toxic cryptocurrency community.

Filip obviously couldn't promote his new ICO well enough here. Smiley

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February 02, 2021, 11:30:07 PM
 #9

Seems that this article is written by butthurt newbie who failed to get merit. Such salty text Smiley. Offcourse, it's easiest way to blame everyone around him, but not yourself.
I don't think it's worth to pay much attention to such no-name websites and what's written there. It reminds me all these threads where people complain how unfair merit system is.

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February 03, 2021, 03:02:04 AM
 #10

reading the trust system in his article it seems that the author of the article didn't spend much time in the forum and just based his. first of all, anyone who joins will eventually become a more "senior member" if the new member provides and share useful information. a member can even get merit for being funny. and I don't know about the author but I have seen high ranking and well-known members giving merits to new members for their post.

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February 03, 2021, 11:23:03 AM
 #11

You need to wait 24 hours to delete posts (don't know if it's in specific threads or all of them). If you need to delete a post, either it's because something went wrong and you did a multipost (you can still edit the post and remove the content, apologize), you regret what you wrote, or you posted in the wrong thread. I'm not sure why that would impact a newbie specifically, unless a newbie wants to shitpost like mad then delete some posts when he realized he crossed the line ? Again it seems that person didn't want to join a community but wanted to take advantages of the opportunities, and didn't want to really invest the time here.
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February 04, 2021, 04:30:50 AM
 #12

If no one can to use Tor or VPN, several member who care about privacy would leave this forum, including those who make good contribution.

No one can use Tor or VPN. I was unable to create an account from a VPN, as I have my VPN active 24/7. It said I had to pay a fee to proceed because I cannot use a VPN. I was forced to disconnect my VPN to create an account.

Maybe I could have spent all night trying other VPNs or Tor addresses, but I don't have the time for that so I just disconnected the VPN to ask my question, and this forum makes it extremely difficult to register, as I had to try 7 times as each time something was wrong, first time username was used go back, now I have a new Recaptcha that I have to do, fails several times as is usual since Recaptcha never works right, hopefully it will work, nope it says bad cookies, so go back, reload page, again go through the process, this time is says nope wait 45 more seconds, now forced back to do another Recaptcha, wait several minutes, no sorry you have to pay us money because you registered iwth VPN, then I have to disconnect VPN, go through the whole process again and choose a different username.

As a result, this forum forcefully prevents people from using VPN or Tor. There is no anonymity on this forum. I value my privacy extremely high and was very disappointed I was not allowed to use a VPN. It's also extremely user unfriendly, I suppose this forum must have a real bad sapm problem because they're willing to make it too hard for some people to register so they give up, but although it took me 10 minutes to register, at least it finally let me ask my question.
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February 04, 2021, 05:57:49 AM
 #13

Making and objective truthful review on the forum is likely mission impossible. To provide an opinion you need to get to know the platform and all it’s inners, which places one more on a subjective plain than anything else. As such, we all have different experiences here, which may even vary overtime.

If this was the case, objectively describing any community in existence would be impossible, because you'd have to be a part of it, which I don't agree with - yes, biases are possible, but people can be critical about something they are a part of.

It's easy to see that authors complaints are unjustified. Merit system does not hinder newbies in any practical way, it just prevents them from using comstics like signatures and avatars. There's no hidden boards for high-merited users. Whatever drama happens between prominent users, it doesn't affect bystanders.
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February 04, 2021, 09:23:00 AM
Merited by vapourminer (2)
 #14

If no one can to use Tor or VPN, several member who care about privacy would leave this forum, including those who make good contribution.
No one can use Tor or VPN. I was unable to create an account from a VPN, as I have my VPN active 24/7. It said I had to pay a fee to proceed because I cannot use a VPN. I was forced to disconnect my VPN to create an account.
Because many members who want to create a new account with TOR is mostly want to abuse or doing suspicious activity. What about your account right now? Do you pay the evil IP to able you post here?

You can use Tor or VPN in this forum, if you have a problem to bypass the captcha you can use this link to log in https://bitcointalk.org/captcha_code.php

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February 04, 2021, 12:35:25 PM
 #15

If he was registered around 2017-2018, when the merit system was newly implemented, yes, the attitude towards newbies was worse than today. But that is because there were lots of spam ICO bounty. The most important thing is we slowly become more welcoming to civilized newbies, and lots of them have proven able to rank up.

No need to be negative about a bad review as if you never received one. You can't make all customers happy.

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February 07, 2021, 08:59:48 AM
 #16

If he was registered around 2017-2018, when the merit system was newly implemented, yes, the attitude towards newbies was worse than today. But that is because there were lots of spam ICO bounty. The most important thing is we slowly become more welcoming to civilized newbies, and lots of them have proven able to rank up.

No need to be negative about a bad review as if you never received one. You can't make all customers happy.

Yes around 2017-18 the attitude towards newbies was bad. I also joined the forum at that time. It was very hard to get merits but I did and now I am ranked as Full Member. Things have changed a lot now and it is not much difficult for newbies to rank now in this forum. The key is patience and doing the right thing and asking the right questions

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February 08, 2021, 10:30:34 AM
 #17

The person behind the article is obvious some butt hurt scammer or spammer who was busted and had their account negged. So by trying to write such articles, they think it will stop new users from registering here of which he's wasting his time on. I don't think anyone with good intentions would find is so hard in this forum

There are lots of them who can't move on after they get caught red-handed with their silly act. People who don't find this site useful for information about cryptocurrency or any crypto-related stuff will likely leave after seeing the merit requirements to get to a certain rank. Only those who really wanted to learn about the crypto industry will remain and after some time, they also share some knowledge with the users here. The only people who find merit requirement is something pain on their ass, are those who came here for shit posting and any other rubbish intentions. They think this site is a money maker or something like that and when they found out how hard it is to rank up, they simply leave and never came back.

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February 17, 2021, 11:42:49 PM
 #18

SCAM WARNING ON USER DreamerBT, Sam Patell

DreamerBT is pure scammer, he scams people on Telegram and his fictive sales Revolut accounts, etc. Lost 250 USD on his non-existing account and his LIES!
He has more than scamming 10 accounts on telegram. This scammer is from  3rd party country where scams are on daily basis. He should be in prison for these scams. Be aware him under usernames: DreamerBT, Sam Patell, etc.

DreamerBT = scammer
Sam Patell = scamme as fck

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February 18, 2021, 09:48:52 AM
 #19

This article conflates the responsibilities of DT and merit sources as what he calls "The Bitcointalk Elite".

He has a point about personal messages and post restrictions being annoying to use for newbies but that is because this feature has been abused by spammers and mass scammers in the past.

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The problem is that this “Bitcointalk Elite” will never give Merit to a new user, and neither does other established users. It will require a very long chain of users until the Merit will reach a new user, so this happens very rarely. Established users give Merit only to each other, which boosts their ranking, while new users stay as newbies for a long time since no one gives them Merit.

This post is unfair to all the merit sources (that is to say, almost all merit sources) who do strive to merit as many good quality posts form newbies as possible.

The problem is that most people either make low quality posts or only post bounty applications and that is why most users have no earned merit.

~

If you have found any more aliases of this scammer, post them in this thread: OldSamurai is an alt of scammer/fake escrow impersonator Boombl4 + Rambotnic

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