[Interview] Crypto business in Kazakhstan

[zasad@]

Good day!
I was able to chat with Apytioh and post this interview.
Apytioh has interesting experience in crypto business in Kazakhstan.

Enjoy reading!

Tell us about yourself?

“I am from Kazakhstan, I am 34 years old. From 21 and the next 5 years I worked in 3 different and rather large alcohol companies, later I had experience in a bank, a football club and a bookmaker's office. As a rule, these are positions in sales, marketing and PR.
So I got a lot of experience by the age of 26.
But the problem is that all this quickly bored me and I lost interest in work. Work from paycheck to paycheck did not suit me. Therefore, in 2013, I began to develop personal projects, tried different directions, made a lot of mistakes, but gained good experience. My friends often laughed at the fact that I was doing everything that can be. And in 2017, I heard about bitcoin, began to study information about it and I really liked it. This is my 4th year in the crypto market. "

Tell us why you decided to go into cryptocurrency business?

"I liked the fact that there is a lot of money in this market and everyone can come here. Nobody will let you into the oil, gas and gold market, and bitcoin's doors are open to every user. And if you have the desire, the right approach, knowledge, you can make a good profit.
At the same time, various activities can be carried out on the crypto market. You can make money from market volatility, trade on stock exchanges, engage in crypto exchange, you can trade equipment such as ASICs, components, mining containers, and even cheap electricity. If you have experience repairing computer equipment, you can find a job repairing ASICs, but in most cases you need analytical thinking to develop in this business, so I stayed here, it suits me. "

What were the difficulties at the beginning of work?

"The main difficulty was financial. At that time I did not have the money to fully enter this business and earn money myself. The second problem was a small amount of knowledge and no experience, but I had enough time to read, study and watch video materials about cryptocurrencies and blockchain in general.
Well, the most common problem is scammers and swindlers. There are always a lot of them, but at that time I was somehow lucky and at the initial stage I rarely came across them, and if I did, these meetings did not bring me much harm. "

Tell us about your first successful projects?

“I can't say that I have many successful projects, but the market in Kazakhstan knows me as one of the most reliable and low-margin crypto exchangers. I buy and sell cryptocurrencies from different people and do it with honest commissions. So I got into the Bit2cash team (one from the very first crypto exchanges in Kazakhstan)
By the way, I appeared on this forum precisely because we needed to gain the trust of people on the network and list our service in the bestchange. The exchanger has established itself quite well in Kazakhstan and offers excellent service to this day, but I have already left this project and now I work alone.
I can also tell you about my Bit4bet project. As a former bettor who knows what it is, I decided to become a partner of one large bookmaker. They gave me an affiliate program, since I have an active telegram channel about cryptocurrencies with my audience. I registered all my betting friends and give them 100% of my referral charges back, in Bitcoin. Thus, people who always do not have enough money to buy crypto get it for free from me. I also have 2 more projects that I am going to implement in the near future on my own, I will tell you about them later. In this forum I try to write about the most important aspects in my work, changes, life stories, and also share my thoughts. "

How do crypto exchanges work in Kazakhstan? How are their activities regulated and how are law enforcement oversight carried out?

"In general, the workflow is not much different from what it looks like in Russia and Ukraine, everything is the same. But exchangers are different, there is online, there is only offline for verified clients, and there are exchangers that combine all of the above.
Supervision and regulation is a very sad topic. You can talk a lot about this, but there is no regulation, although many already themselves are almost begging the tax service to come up with a regulation so that each exchanger knows how to submit reports, how much to pay taxes, etc. But the supervision is now the strictest. They check everyone who is involved in crypto exchanges. The police react quickly enough to allegations of fraud, and if you deceive people, then you will be wanted. Nobody wants to help us, but many government organizations want to create problems for us.
Crypto exchangers often try to cheat, there are many attempts to fraudulently seize cryptocurrency. Therefore, all honest online exchangers in the first place now request full identity verification.
But there are still a lot of scammers from OLX (online classifieds platform) and other different platforms. Offline, you are unlikely to be able to buy or sell cryptocurrency, if no one knows you, the money changers will not want to meet with you. You need to have friends or guarantors to exchange cryptocurrencies. "

Have you and your partners ever faced scams?

“Repeatedly. At least once a year, we lost money, the schemes of deception were different. But we tried with dignity to go through all the difficulties and treated these incidents as buying experience. After each such incident, we grew and developed. The truth is they say, such situations temper and develop character.
Over time, we understood in which cases it is better to abandon the deal and where we made mistakes. By the way, I described one situation here on the forum, how an unknown forum member from Bitcointalk almost deceived us with 7 or 8 bitcoins, but he failed to finish the deception. "

How did you ensure the security of large cash exchanges?

“Over time, we came to the conclusion that our colleague who transfers cryptocurrency or accepts payments should not be in the same room with clients. It’s calmer. Next, it is important to clarify with the client whether he understands what he is buying and whether he buys cryptocurrency for himself There are different cases, so these questions are by no means superfluous if the person is new. Also, we will definitely conduct the first trial transaction for a small amount to the client's wallet to confirm the address, in order to avoid situations "you sent to the wrong address, give my money back ".
And last year we turned down large deals with unfamiliar customers. But even if there is a familiar and trusted client, we will now conduct this transaction in a bank branch, in a cash collection room. (In Russia, Kazakhstan, banks provide such a service for their clients) "

How much money have you invested in this business?

"I still have not invested any money. I started making the first exchanges as an ordinary intermediary and had my own interest from this. At first I just spent all the money on my needs, then when there were more and more clients, I spent only part of the money on my With reaching a new level, I increased my cryptocurrency portfolio, I spent more on my own needs. Then new profitable projects appeared, for example, reselling discount coupons from Bitmain, selling ASICs and other non-permanent side jobs.
But the main activity has always been a crypto exchange, which developed due to my acquaintance with miners.
My partners are my old friends, so I brought all my clients to their office. After a year of such cooperation, we decided that I would be on their team, since I have the skills, free time, the necessary knowledge, my own client base and the ability to add our exchanger to the large monitors of exchange offices. I also have extensive experience in creating and developing sites. This is how I develop every year without initial capital, while steadily improving my life and increasing my crypto portfolio. It is worth noting here that the main factor, in my opinion, is my reputation. Those who work with me are not afraid to pay first, because I will not disappear with their money and will not cheat. The next important factor in my development and scaling was the fact that I decided to become public, I do not hide my face and hide behind other people's avatars or strange nicknames. This made people trust me even more. "

How is mining developing in Kazakhstan?

"It is developing with rapid steps. Now the government has very competent people in key positions. First of all, I believe, this is the merit of the Minister of Digital Development - Bagdat Musin and the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan Kassym-Jomart Tokayev. They are very active in the digitalization of our state and did not pass past mining.
We produce a lot of electricity in our country, we are the 9th largest territory in the world and we have many factories, hydroelectric power plants, thermal power plants, nuclear power plants.
The country's highest electricity tariff is less than $ 0.05 per kilowatt. In some regions there are rates of $ 0.03-0.04, influential people are able to get a price of $ 0.02. That is why, a year ago, Stanford University, at the end of its large research, came to the conclusion that our country ranks 4th in Bitcoin mining in the world. We are second only to China and the United States, and we caught up with Russia last year. But considering how much equipment has been launched over the past six months, I would not be surprised if we are already in third place in the world, overtaking Russia.
A strong catalyst was the fact that the aforementioned Musin and Tokayev announced to the whole country that our state plans to develop data centers and sets itself the task of attracting more than $ 700 million of foreign investment in cryptocurrency mining in the next couple of years. I think this is a cool idea, because these foreigners will bring money to our country, create jobs, pay huge electricity bills, and as a result, Kazakhstan will have a lot of cryptocurrency.
It is a pity that the implementation of the stated goals is moving slowly, since there is a huge queue of foreigners wishing to invest their money, but in fact only a few are engaged in mining in Kazakhstan, but these are quite large players in the market.
Europeans, Americans, Russians, Japanese, Koreans and even Chinese are looking for sites with cheap electricity all over Kazakhstan. The Arabs also want to cooperate. Our country is a paradise for miners from other countries, and we have a real opportunity to become the mining capital of the world, but so far this is all only in theory. "

What do you do in the mining industry?

"My friends are now building luxury containers for mining. This is a product that allows you to connect your miners to the network and not worry about technical conditions, these containers are of higher quality compared to Bitmain products. At the same time, our containers are much cheaper, for comparison one ASIC-place in the Bitmein container costs about $ 90, and a place in the B2C mining container costs $ 60. It is also important that the production time is 2 times less, the electrics inside the container are of higher quality.
In addition to the fact that my comrades build these containers, it is also possible to take your data center for further maintenance, if your consumption is from 5 MWh / hour or more.

I am engaged in sales if customers contact me. Mining containers are now a scarce commodity, prices have increased, there are no goods in stock, and dealers often turn out to be scammers. I have trusted and honest suppliers of ASICs, and this is now in great demand.
There are also big plans for mining for the future, but they are still at an early stage of development. "

How has COVID-19 affected your business?

"Positively! Sales volumes increased, sometimes there were good commissions and extra profits. The crypto market itself was very volatile and there was a great demand for crypto exchange. Also, a positive moment was the fact that some of our competitors went bankrupt, not all survived the fall in cryptocurrency prices in March. 2020. Plus it all coincided with halving and the expected growth of the entire crypto market.
Therefore, my and partner crypto portfolios have grown in value. "

What is your general opinion about cryptocurrency? Is it a hype that will eventually pass or a new trend that will intensify every year?

“At the beginning of 2017, I thought it was a hype, another global pyramid that would soon collapse. But in January 2018, I was clearly convinced that digital money and cryptocurrencies are the future.
Anyone who still thinks that cryptocurrencies and digital money is a scam or a pyramid scheme risks losing a lot or missing out on good profits. "

Where should a beginner start if he wants to start mining or organize a cryptocurrency exchanger?

"I do not advise beginners to start mining now. The era of home farms has passed, and putting 1-2 ASICs at home is not the best idea. It is better to buy bitcoin with this money. According to my observations, it is best to start mining when it is not most profitable. But if I really want to be a miner, then it is better to give your equipment for the maintenance of some company. They have experience, cheap electricity and they will be responsible in the event of equipment breakdowns. And a beginner will certainly have situations that he never knew about.
As for the newbie exchanger - absolutely not. It's too late. A beginner will not have enough experience, knowledge, money, or luck to hold out in this competitive environment for at least six months. And this very line of business will soon change dramatically. I am sure that soon we will all be obliged to carry out all exchanges on official exchanges. Therefore, this business is not worth considering now. "

Are the borders in Kazakhstan open now for the import and export of goods?

"As far as I know, yes. Borders are open, goods are brought in and taken away."

What do businessmen bring to Kazakhstan for sale and what do they take out from there for resale in other countries?

"The list of our export products is small. Most often these are agricultural products and our minerals: fruits, vegetables and minerals such as oil, metals. Our land is extremely rich, we have a lot of minerals, but production is not developed.
Neighboring countries bring a lot of goods to our country. We are located between Russia and China, so we have a lot of imports in our country, ranging from Russian sausages, Belarusian sugar, to cars from Armenia and clothes and electronics from China. "

What places do you recommend visiting first of all to those who have not been to Kazakhstan?

"In Almaty, be sure to visit our ski resorts" Chimbulak "and" Ak Bulak ", and it does not matter what time of year you arrive. Look at our Charyn canyon, this is not a great American canyon, but something similar and amazing. Further along the route there is of indescribable beauty of the place in the form of lakes Kolsai and Kaindy. We have a very beautiful and diverse nature. Be sure to come to the capital Nur-Sultan for the weekend, it is very beautiful there in the warm season. "

How much will Bitcoin cost at the end of 2021?

"At the end of 2019, in a dispute with my friends, I called the price of bitcoin $ 27,777 at the end of the year 2020, and I was as close as possible, at that time of the dispute the price was about $ 8,000. Now I am sure that the price will reach at least 100,000 during this year for one bitcoin.
To be more precise, I think that the next high will come again at the end of the year and we will reach $ 150-200K for 1 bitcoin. Perhaps something will intervene in our lives again, as COVID did and the timing will be delayed a little, but we will see bitcoin at six-figure prices already in this cycle."


__
Thanks Apytioh for your time.
Hope readers enjoy the interview!
Feel free to ask questions for Apytioh here or via private messages.

Disclaimer: This article is for educational purposes. Don't consider this material as investment advice!

This is a translation of the interview from Russian. If I am mistaken, write me a private message, I will correct the errors.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5313734

[zasad@]

Continuation of the interview with Apytioh about the current situation in Kazakhstan. July 2021.

Enjoy reading!

Please tell us what is happening in the cryptocurrency business in Kazakhstan?

"In short, there is a change in trends. If before there was a catastrophic shortage of cryptocurrencies, now, with the arrival of foreign investors and Chinese miners, there are a lot of them. This affected exchange offices, now all exchangers have full reserves, commissions are changing, that is, if earlier the buyer had to pay 2-3-4-5% extra, now it comes to the point that exchangers give 0.5% more cryptocurrency for your fiat.This is due to the fact that the miners who arrived from China brought with them a lot of cryptocurrencies, which they here they exchange for fiat to pay for their costs associated with the launch of mining.Also there is information that after the adoption of the law on mining by the President of the country and the full legalization of this activity, private foreign investors come, who also bring cryptocurrencies, which they pay here for starting their business. In general, Kazakhstan is slowly turning into the mining capital of the world."

 
Bitcoin has lost about half of the hashrate, what % of the share of the lost hash rate can Kazakhstan accept?

“Theoretically, Kazakhstan can accept everything! But in practice, most likely it will be possible to take no more than half, I think that a third of the capacity will come to us.
For a month now, the pool of BTC.com has been gradually moving to us in Kazakhstan, there is confirmed information about the relocation of two other large Chinese miners, and there is also information that with the adoption of the law, rich Arabs began to invest in this business. A year ago, in terms of hashrate share, Kazakhstan was 4th after Russia, but in the second part of 2020 we overtook Russia. Now Kazakhstan is chasing the United States in terms of hash rate. I think that when everything calms down and the movement of miners stops, there will be 3 major players in the world: China, USA, Kazakhstan. "

What taxes are miners required to pay? What is the cost of electricity for miners. Are there any consumption restrictions?

"The President adopted a law on mining, all miners will be required to pay an additional 1 tenge (1 RUB = 5.9 tenge; $ 1 = 430 tenge) to their current electricity tariffs. There are no other laws yet, but there is still a law under consideration that charge some percentage from the miners when they sell the mined cryptocurrency.That is, while you are mining, you just pay for electricity, but when you fix a profit or loss and exchange the mined cryptocurrency for fiat, you will have to pay for it too. not yet adopted, but has been under consideration for a long time.
The cost of electricity varies. Depends on the region, in the north it is cheaper, the west and east are more expensive, the highest tariffs are in the south. But on average it is 4-5 cents per kW. Major players most likely found options for 3 cents.
The consumption limits are also individual, depending on the place where you connect, there is no single standard. "

Is there a big shadow mining market in Kazakhstan?

"No, it used to be quite large, but in recent years most of the shadow market has been closed. It is not difficult to find large illegal mining farms, so there are probably very few of them left now. As a rule, these are small private traders. But given our Soviet mentality, I dare to assume that there are large miners who pay bribes and work illegally."

According to information from Wikipedia, 87% of electricity production in Kazakhstan is the combustion of coal, oil and gas, which leads to additional carbon emissions into the atmosphere. Does Kazakhstan have a government policy on this issue?

"It's hard to say in percentage terms. But yes, burning of minerals is a large part of electricity production, but there is no government policy in this matter."

Are there any green energy projects in Kazakhstan?

"Yes, of course. There are hydropower plants and wind farms. There are also small solar projects, but what I know is that these are not industrial mining projects."

What does a miner need to do to start working in Kazakhstan?

“I don’t have a definite answer to this question. The law has been written and adopted, but it’s not a fact that you will be able to take advantage of it. Everything is at an early stage and there is no clear algorithm for starting this business.
As a rule, this is solved with the help of business contacts, acquaintances or by paying money to the owner of the electricity access point, and then everything works according to the law. Recently, a certain investor "paid" $ 450,000 to the owner of a 14MW station to start mining. That is, he just bought the opportunity to mine, then he will pay according to the tariff as required by law. "

What are your partners planning to do? Will they expand or manufacture mining equipment?

"The production of equipment is too complicated a process, but the production of mining containers, the launch of turnkey mining sites, hosting and equipment repairs are ongoing. And now the demand for this is growing at a good pace. There are two companies, B2C mining LLP and B2C service LLP. The first company is engaged in the construction of mining containers, it is also possible turnkey delivery of a specific project and further hosting.
The second company is engaged in the repair and maintenance of mining equipment of any type. You can find the websites of the companies on Google, and there are also reviews of the products of these companies on YouTube. "

In Russia, miners buy private houses and receive a 15-30 Kilowatt limit at the rate for individuals. Does this practice work in Kazakhstan?

“I haven’t heard about this. There are home miners that mine Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, etc., but I haven’t heard about home BTC miners. In Kazakhstan, not everyone can get 30 kW per home, it will be expensive.”

Is it possible to get rich mining in Kazakhstan now? What is the payback period of investment in mining now?

“Of course you can! If you are a miner in Kazakhstan, consider that you have taken a franchise from the Fed and are printing money, legally and legally. It all depends on your experience, ambitions, capabilities and strategic planning.
In terms of payback periods, I adhere to the point of view that it is pointless to calculate it. The complexity of the network can change by 10-20 percent daily, and in both directions, I will not say anything about the BTC course. So what's the point if these numbers change every day?
But according to my observations, I will say the following, when the current payback period is less than 6 months, it means that these periods are more likely to increase soon, you run the risk of entering the market when demand starts to fall. And when the current payback period is more than 1.5 years, then most likely, after a short time, everything will change in your favor.
Warren Buffett's rule of thumb: "Be afraid when everyone is greedy, and be greedy when everyone is afraid."
Thus, I have developed for myself the following pattern, the more unprofitable the start of mining in terms of payback period, the better this entry point, and vice versa. "

What interesting insights can you share from your experience?

"I can talk a lot on these topics, but I will say the most interesting thing in my opinion.
China is the total hashrate leader and suddenly it passes a law banning non-environmentally friendly mining.
The persecution of miners begins, using electricity, which is produced by burning coal and other minerals.
But I, my colleagues and other people from the cryptocurrency market have already met several Chinese who were expelled from the country, although they had absolutely environmentally friendly mining, they used hydroelectric power stations.
After that, there was news on ForkLog, where it was said that in China a large number of hydropower plants with capacities up to 50MW were put up for sale after the miners left there.
It turns out that China has expelled not only those who violate the environment. What is it? Some kind of game? Or a conspiracy?
How can a power like China abandon its dominant position in such a niche as mining? This is a big question for me. Either something special awaits us, or the Chinese government will now supply its own equipment and will mine into the state treasury at the points of the expelled miners. This is a big question for me, and I hope to get an answer to it soon. "

Original:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5313734.msg57431412#msg57431412
If you find mistakes in translation, write to me.

Thanks Apytioh  for your time.
Hope you enjoyed it!
Feel free to ask him questions.

Disclaimer: This article is for educational purposes. Don't consider this material as investment advice!

[SFR10]

if earlier the buyer had to pay 2-3-4-5% extra, now it comes to the point that exchangers give 0.5% more cryptocurrency for your fiat.

Now that's what I call an interesting development!

I think that when everything calms down and the movement of miners stops, there will be 3 major players in the world: China, USA, Kazakhstan.

With everything that has happened recently in China and the direction that things are going at the moment, I'm curious to know why @Apytioh thinks China is still going to be one of the major players?

But yes, burning of minerals is a large part of electricity production, but there is no government policy in this matter."

It would've been better if there was one prior to the ongoing large-scale relocations...
^{- I'm sure Chinese miners wouldn't want to experience and deal with a chain reaction of some sort.}

Recently, a certain investor "paid" $ 450,000 to the owner of a 14MW station to start mining. That is, he just bought the opportunity to mine, then he will pay according to the tariff as required by law.

That's not a good thing and other hosting providers might follow as well ^{[unfortunately]}.

[zasad@]

I think that when everything calms down and the movement of miners stops, there will be 3 major players in the world: China, USA, Kazakhstan.

With everything that has happened recently in China and the direction that things are going at the moment, I'm curious to know why @Apytioh thinks China is still going to be one of the major players?

I will ask him to write when he has information.
Assuming that in six months all the moves will end and China will again allow mining, because it is environmentally friendly.
The main hashrate will be shared between China, USA, Kazakhstan, Russia and South America

But yes, burning of minerals is a large part of electricity production, but there is no government policy in this matter."

It would've been better if there was one prior to the ongoing large-scale relocations...
^{- I'm sure Chinese miners wouldn't want to experience and deal with a chain reaction of some sort.}

Not a very funny situation.

Recently, a certain investor "paid" $ 450,000 to the owner of a 14MW station to start mining. That is, he just bought the opportunity to mine, then he will pay according to the tariff as required by law.

That's not a good thing and other hosting providers might follow as well ^{[unfortunately]}.

I don’t know how it happens in other countries, but in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and other similar countries, this is standard practice.

[leea-1334]

Interesting read thank you for sharing that! If I am not mistaken in Kazakhstan they have allowed for crypto businesses to operate legally and even gave them a bit of tax breaks for first few years especially in the big mountain areas surrounding the new capital. Their current president is really keen to open up to the world so this China thing is good news for him. Plus the big China to Russia route runs through Kazakhstan so they are ready for business it seems.

[zasad@]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-idUSKBN2A308U
China's new coal power plant capacity in 2020 more than three times rest of world's: study

"Including decommissions, China’s coal-fired fleet capacity rose by a net 29.8 GW in 2020, even as the rest of the world made cuts of 17.2 GW, according to research released on Wednesday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), a U.S. think tank, and the Helsinki-based Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA)."

In China, the production of energy from coal is growing, according to this report.
Most likely, China has completely different reasons, but definitely not those about which it is written here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5347307.msg57372694#msg57372694

[zasad@]

https://cryptodaily.co.uk/2021/07/kazakhstan-bank-account-cryptocurrencies
Kazakhstan Opens Up Bank Accounts For Cryptocurrencies
"New Crypto Doors Open For Kazakhstan’s Citizens
According to the Kazakh Association of Blockchain and Data Center Industry, local banks are on their way to become more crypto-friendly. As the Astana International Financial Center (AIFC) starts collaborating and launches its pilot project with second-tier banks, clients will have the opportunity to officially and openly work in cryptocurrency. "

[SFR10]

https://cryptodaily.co.uk/2021/07/kazakhstan-bank-account-cryptocurrencies
Kazakhstan Opens Up Bank Accounts For Cryptocurrencies

Overall, this is a positive development but I still don't like how they would still be able to control everything.
In addition to that, I was surprised to read about digital currencies were banned in a country with a lot of ongoing mining operations!

• The year-long pilot program will help the Kazakh government assess the risk and benefits of digital currencies and may even lead to lifting the ban on digital currencies.

[stompix]

In addition to that, I was surprised to read about digital currencies being banned in a country with a lot of ongoing mining operations!

It's rather the norm, if we cut the US out of the picture most mining was done in countries that are somewhat hostile to the idea of the usage of Bitcoin, China, Iran, Kazakhstan, and Russia. The last addition in top Malaysia just made the headlines in some steamroller fashion  . I know it was about stealing electricity but still....
As for Kazakstan, I wonder how much this love affair with bitcoin mining will last, oil prices are $20 up from the start of the year while coal has jumped 80%, so it makes less and less sense to burn in to generate cheap energy for an industry if it doesn't give back some serious returns.

[zasad@]

I read an interesting analytics that the cost of electricity at CHP plants, which were built in the Soviet Union, is less than 1 cent per kilowatt. Even in the Soviet Union, the leaders understood that it was necessary to look for other sources of electricity, so improvements to the CHP plant stopped. Modern CHP plants have higher efficiency, they are being built in China.
In Kazakhstan, the same CHP plants are used as now in Russia.
But there is a lot of coal in Russia and Kazakhstan

[stompix]

I read an interesting analytics that the cost of electricity at CHP plants, which were built in the Soviet Union, is less than 1 cent per kilowatt.

That could be possible, but not at current prices.

Roughly, taking into account standard plants and medium quality coal you can generate around 2500kwh from one ton of coal.
But, when right now Chinese prices have reached almost 900 yuan briefly but still stay in the zone above 120, you have to choices:
- sell the coal for 100$ plus shipping
- burn the coal, produce 2500kwh and sell that for 100, which means 4cents/kwh at 1cent/kwh you get only 25$.

It would have worked for when the prices were 40$ and you had to transport that so it was cheaper just to let the powerplants run, but at current prices, it makes no sense unless you subsidize the industry to keep the jobs market afloat.

And no, Kazakhstan will not burn coal and money to keep prices low for miners, not without serious bribes.

[zasad@]

Coal prices

https://www.finanz.ru/birzhevyye-tovary/grafik/ugol-cena

Perhaps we do not know something, but if you use your data, then the price for 1 kilowatt should be more than 4 cents.
But even I pay less for electricity, although in my region electricity is produced at thermal power plants.
I looked at the prices for coal in Russia excluding delivery. 5000-7000 rubles (70-96 dollars) per ton.
This is the price for a small wholesale of several tons, wholesale prices are even cheaper.
https://www.tg-stroy.ru/ugol.html

[stompix]

But even I pay less for electricity, although in my region electricity is produced at thermal power plants.
I looked at the prices for coal in Russia excluding delivery. 5000-7000 rubles (70-96 dollars) per ton.

Yeah, I should have pointed the difference way better, so, what I was trying to say:

It makes sense for some powerplants to sell energy at 2-3 cents, even in Montana where Marathon is mining they offer it at 2.3 kwh, but that's an isolated environment. Just like some shale oil explorations have to sell it at -10 -20 market price so are some coal mines going to keep selling coal at 30-40$/ton just because they lack the means of exporting it or even increasing capacity above their contracts. A lot of coal mines have a powerplant nearby and that's all, they were kept like this just to run the powerplant with no real export in mind., or are in the middle of nowhere with no railway lines or a nearby port.
For those who will keep selling coal cheap as that's their only client, it's like they are missing an opportunity, not like they are going bankrupt, they were designed to explore at 10-20$ per ton, they will continue doing so.

But, if we take the whole of Kazakhstan, that's a different thing, it's not a single case it's a whole system.
A country runs in a continuous balance, they produce some energy from coal, they export some and they import some.
Right now, if Kazakhstan would need 4GW of extra power they would have only 3 obvious choices:
- expand mining capacity to produce more coal, that's done in years not months
- reduce exports (why, when you can sell that at 100$?)
- import...again, why?

So yeah, right now you can still get energy at 2 cents from coal, but you will not get extra!! energy at the same price, not when we're talking hundreds of MW, not KW.

As for your link look at anthracite, that's what Australia is mainly exporting, the rest is low quality, what you see at 6000 rubles/ton.
Anthracite - 7200 - 7600 kcal / kg
DPK - 5400 - 5600 kcal / kg

[zasad@]

I agree with you, but there are a lot of nuances here.
Now coal is very expensive, but this does not mean that its price will not decrease in the future.
If the mill has a lot of coal, then its government will be interested in investors building new thermal power plants in Kazakhstan.
As I understand it, Kazakhstan has a large surplus of electricity. And when the electricity consumption equals the supply, I will ask the people of their Kazakhstan what they will do.

[malevolent]

I don’t know how it happens in other countries, but in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and other similar countries, this is standard practice.

It could be a fee to cover infrastructural costs, or a bribe to get to use the services of the plant. Anecdotally, I heard of foundries in India having to pay six-figure sums in bribes just to get connected to the grid.

[zasad@]

I don’t know how it happens in other countries, but in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and other similar countries, this is standard practice.

It could be a fee to cover infrastructural costs, or a bribe to get to use the services of the plant. Anecdotally, I heard of foundries in India having to pay six-figure sums in bribes just to get connected to the grid.

I do not know what is happening in India, but in Russia or other countries about which I wrote this is called a bribe.
If you try to do everything in a legal way, then it is very difficult to obtain permission and the registration procedure can take years. And after the bribe, you get permission in a very short time.
I hate it myself. In some places, you officially pay the affiliated company for consulting services and get permission.

[Kyraishi]

These are the type of people that the bitcoin community sorely needs.

People, in genuinely disadvantaged economies, who are using bitcoin to try and create good for themselves and for the society around them. This was the initial goal of bitcoin - to help the unbanked, to provide a store of value, and means of exchange for those who don't have the luxury of accessing it through their traditional banking system.

Best of luck to this young man and his future endeavours. By the looks of it, he has a good business mind, is a decent person, and will continue to succeed in the future as a matter of time.

[zasad@]

Continued interview with Apytioh about the current situation in Kazakhstan. July 2022.

Enjoy reading!

Please tell us about the situation with mining in Kazakhstan, what has changed since our last interview in July 2021?

"Everything has changed dramatically. If earlier everyone globally fled to Kazakhstan a year ago, now many have already fled the country. According to my subjective feelings, we have lost at least half of our hashrate. But the current price, which is not favorable to anyone, is also to blame."

What taxes do miners have to pay? What is the cost of electricity? Are there connection difficulties?

"There are difficulties. There is still no final, understandable law and procedure for mining. Hence a lot of ensuing problems, difficulties in obtaining permission for mining, cunning employees of special services who are trying to cash in on miners by any method known to them, owners of areas that have become impudent in the region for mining, which not only raise the price of electricity by 1-2 cents per kW, but also manage to demand a share of the profit in the amount of 20-30%.In fact, now those who can officially beckon are required to pay a little more than 2 cents extra for each kWh consumed in taxes, and the average price is now 5-6 cents Add here 2 cents for tax, in the summer a lot is consumed for cooling, salaries for employees, equipment repairs and downtime, and if you still share the profit with the owner of the site, then you don't pay off in the coming years. We can say that with our approach we killed the happiness that fell on us in the form of visiting miners from all over the world."

What changes have occurred in the work of crypto exchangers? Has the shadow segment remained on the crypto market or is it dangerous now?

"The shadow segment, in my opinion, will never disappear in this direction. Where is money found, and especially big money
it will always be there. But in general, this direction is developing, there are a lot of exchangers, crypto arbitrage has grown a lot and people have learned to use international payment systems and banks in this business. A lot of people are now working from Russia in our market. Now, with the strengthening of the ruble, they have become smaller, but in the spring there was a real boom. Every day, 3-4 new people asked me to sell them a crypt. "

10 months ago you invested in a large mining farm CHIA. Do not regret about it?

“In theory, I should have lost faith in her and regretted it. After all, I entered this project at a Chia price of $ 200, now it is trading at $ 40. At the same time, my partner let me down, who refused the project, and I had to work alone. This applies to both the technical and financial part. And the costs, as it usually happens, turned out to be much more than I originally expected. But no, I don’t regret it, now I’m even glad that I did it and I have something to be proud of looking at this mining farm. I I am sure that the price of Chia will change so that everything will pay off and my labors will be rewarded."

To make it clear for beginners, tell me how many hard drives do you have and what size is it?

"The farm consists of almost 600 hard drives. The main part is 10TB drives, there is also a small amount of 8TB, and the total capacity is over 5500TB."

What is your hashrate, power consumption? What coins are you mining at the same time?

"My farm is now 4.9PiB, which is 5.5 petabytes or 0.022% of the entire network, this is in fact a small fraction, there are much larger farms, but these are most likely some kind of huge data centers. But in mining chats I don’t met farms more than mine, most farms are 200-500 terabytes.
Electricity consumption is now about 9000 kWh per month, or about 12.5 kWh. But 30-40% of this is consumed by air conditioning and other auxiliary devices, cameras, control computers, lights, etc.
In the cool season, when there is no need for an air conditioner and there is no plotting, but just farming, the consumption does not exceed 8-9 kWh. If I had bought top ASICs at that time for the same amount, then the electricity consumption would have been 25-30 times higher. Accordingly, in the summer, I would pay for electricity not 400 dollars a month, but more than 10,000."

How many CHIA coins does your farm mine per day? Do you sell coins to pay expenses?

"When we all started all the hard drives, the Chia calculator promised us 2 coins every day. In fact, due to the fact that we were mining in solo mode, then
I managed to get more coins. But then difficulties began, constant updates, errors, and we began to lose performance, while the complexity of mining fell, and our profit also fell. It is still not clear what this is connected with and I have not found any clear answer. Maybe that's how random works. But if approximately, then we have been extracting 50 coins in recent months. At the current exchange rate, this is $2,000, and this is not enough to even cover expenses. Rent, electricity, internet and wages are more than the profit of a mining farm. Therefore, the coins are not for sale, all expenses for 11 months I pay from my own funds. At the same time, I try to buy more Chia from the market with large price drawdowns. I plan to sell these speculatively bought coins at a price of 300-400 dollars per Chia and recover some of my expenses, and I plan to sell the farmed coins after the halving or after overcoming the price of 1000 dollars."

What difficulties have you encountered during this time on your mining farm?

"There were a lot of difficulties. I can talk about this topic for several hours. I will say briefly, mining on asics and video cards is much easier. Chia farming is the most difficult technical process that I had to understand. Of course, I am not a system administrator, I'm not an IT specialist and I don't have a lot of experience, but the process of launching plotting, maintaining farming is a very specific and time-consuming process, especially if your farm is industrial scale, and not 5-10 hard drives in an apartment on the balcony."

Do you have your own hard drive plotting equipment or do you use other paid services?

"Own equipment. The previous owners bought at the Chia HYIP in the spring of 21 in China, then I used it in Kazakhstan. In February of this year, when events began in Ukraine and the price of the ruble fell sharply, I assembled 3 more good and productive plotters, that work without an SSD, they use 512GB of their RAM.
This allowed me to finish the process faster, as we placed three old servers in cabinets and these servers were running disk shelves that were filled with ready-made hard drives. And the remaining servers crashed from a heavy load, all the servers got warm controllers and the servers turned off, somewhere plotting time increased by 2-3 times.
But now, when the difficulties are over, I sell servers in the Russian Federation, the ruble has grown. I plan to spend part of the money on buying Chia, and spend the other part on monthly expenses."

When building your mining farm, did you use ready-made solutions or did you make racks, ventilation, security systems yourself?

"There were no ready-made solutions, there were two of my system administrators with whom we consulted and did everything ourselves. It was not easy, but very interesting."

What mistakes did you make when building a mining farm or what would you have done differently 10 months ago?

"The only thing I would change is the location. In vain, I took the advice of my partner, who refused to participate in the project, and I rented a huge room with a rent of almost $ 1,000 a month. It would be more correct to build my own container and do everything there. By the way, I am currently engaged in its construction. Now my farm will become mobile, and its location will be known to a very narrow circle of people."

What advice would you give to new CHIA miners?

"In no case do not start it now. Better buy coins on the market and hold them until the halving. And if you really want to farm Chia, then with the proceeds from the sale of Chia coins you can buy yourself equipment and start farming, just wait new bottom of Chia after halving. I hope that by then it will be much easier to plot and farm than it is now."


Mining farm. Video.

My Chia farm!

Almost 5PiB
https://twitter.com/Apytioh/status/1532642888420667392?s=20&t=IM2MfUSVifKXynUxaKb_Sw

Thanks Apytioh for your time.
I hope you enjoy reading this interview!
Feel free to ask Apytioh questions.

Disclaimer: This article is educational. Do not consider this material as investment advice!


Original:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5313734.msg60578342#msg60578342

If you find translation errors, please contact me.

[zasad@]

Do you want to continue the interview about Crypto business in Kazakhstan? Apytioh is active on the forum and I may invite him for a third interview.
If you have any questions you would like answered, you can write here or DM me. Apytioh is a very open person and honestly answers all questions.
Such an interview requires a lot of time for me and the opponent, but I don’t see much interest in such content.

[yhiaali3]

Do you want to continue the interview about Crypto business in Kazakhstan? Apytioh is active on the forum and I may invite him for a third interview.
If you have any questions you would like answered, you can write here or DM me. Apytioh is a very open person and honestly answers all questions.
Such an interview requires a lot of time for me and the opponent, but I don’t see much interest in such content.

I regret that your important topic did not receive the required attention, despite all the efforts and the long time you invested in it.
Honestly this is the first time I see the topic, so I read the first interviews that I did with Apytioh, the interview is really interesting and I learned a lot of new things for me especially about mining in Kazakhstan.
Apytioh mentioned something in the second interview that I didn't fully understand the point:

But according to my observations, I will say the following, when the current payback period is less than 6 months, it means that these periods are more likely to increase soon, you run the risk of entering the market when demand starts to fall. And when the current payback period is more than 1.5 years, then most likely, after a short time, everything will change in your favor.
Warren Buffett's rule of thumb: "Be afraid when everyone is greedy, and be greedy when everyone is afraid."
Thus, I have developed for myself the following pattern, the more unprofitable the start of mining in terms of payback period, the better this entry point, and vice versa. "

Could you ask him to explain this point in more detail, because I haven't quite touched the point. Specifically the last sentence.

Thank you and much appreciation for your kind efforts.