This shitty Merit System has ruined Bitcointalk and made it like Facebook

[muenze]

People with a lot of Merit can earn $50 in BTC a week easily and more in signature campaigns. They have absolutely ZERO motivation to give others Merit because if anything giving others Merit will give them more competition in the signature campaigns.

The cancer that is Facebook with constant dopamine-addiction and global mass insanity and people just creating posts to get a like has also made its way to Bitcointalk now.

While Bitcoin promised to destroy the established system now and this place was great for discussions, now its just another Facebook. The old quality of message boards that you can still see in Posts by Satoshi and many others (in OLD posts where people actually made thoughtful posts and did own research and posted about experiences) is now completely disappeared because people rather make posts thinking they will get a like, or to spam their X posts a week for their signature campaigns.

While its great to offer people a way to earn bitcoin, basing this so much on the merit system is the stupidest thing Bitcointalk has ever done and it has ruined these forums. I must have seen the exact same ETH-shill post in different words 50 times last week in the Altcoin disussion board. Always by different usernames but probably the same people/same guy running all them in his bot network.

Was a great time but until this system is changed I rather write in some old mailing lists or even to my own notepad because there I have control over my words and thoughts and am not influenced by retarded distractions as the Merit system.

Have a nice day!

[Oshosondy]

The old quality of message boards that you can still see in Posts by Satoshi and many others (in OLD posts where people actually made thoughtful posts and did own research and posted about experiences) is now completely disappeared because people rather make posts thinking they will get a like, or to spam their X posts a week for their signature campaigns.

Check this forum very well, there are best post qualities always. Have you ever since meaningful bitcoin forum like bitcointalk? If there is, still can never be compared.

While its great to offer people a way to earn bitcoin, basing this so much on the merit system is the stupidest thing Bitcointalk has ever done and it has ruined these forums.

That is why bitcointalk is now having over 3 million users. The merit system helps to reduce shit posters, unlike 2017 as I heard where a single person will have 10 accounts. The more the account leading to shitposting.

Was a great time but until this system is changed I rather write in some old mailing lists or even to my own notepad because there I have control over my words and thoughts and am not influenced by retarded distractions as the Merit system.

I do not think you are needed. You are not theymos, not any of the staff, not Loyce V not any of the best members. You can be the one that needs this forum, not this forum that needs you.

[PrimeNumber7]

They have absolutely ZERO motivation to give others Merit because if anything giving others Merit will give them more competition in the signature campaigns

Whenever I find a post worth reading, I will give it merit, if I have any. I think there are a lot of posts that are not worth reading, and I want to encourage people to make more posts that *are* worth reading, otherwise being on the forum would be pointless.

[qwertyup23]

People with a lot of Merit can earn $50 in BTC a week easily and more in signature campaigns. They have absolutely ZERO motivation to give others Merit because if anything giving others Merit will give them more competition in the signature campaigns.

The purpose of this forum does not revolve alone in earning money through participating in campaign signatures. The forum is bigger than that- which is sharing your knowledge about cryptocurrencies in general. It just so happens that the traffic in this forum makes it as an avenue for businessmen to create advertisements.

While its great to offer people a way to earn bitcoin, basing this so much on the merit system is the stupidest thing Bitcointalk has ever done and it has ruined these forums. I must have seen the exact same ETH-shill post in different words 50 times last week in the Altcoin disussion board. Always by different usernames but probably the same people/same guy running all them in his bot network.

The merit system actually contributed greatly in terms of post-quality of users. Lots of brand new users with relatively low activity are gaining hundreds to thousands of merits in a few months. With the merit system being implemented, it reduced the total number of users who farm accounts by ranking up only through activity.

Was a great time but until this system is changed I rather write in some old mailing lists or even to my own notepad because there I have control over my words and thoughts and am not influenced by retarded distractions as the Merit system.

I do think that the merit system will not be changed soon unless there is a compelling reason for theymos to do it. As we all know, the merit system cannot address every corner of each problem and it is not perfect but it does its job pretty well in combatting against spammers and scammers.

[tranthidung]

People with a lot of Merit can earn $50 in BTC a week easily and more in signature campaigns.

Did you either read the purposes of merit system or the welcome message?

• Merit & new rank requirements
• Welcome message

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

Do not beg for merit excessively.

A lot of people come here primarily looking to make money. The forum administration is very happy that people are able to use the forum in order to better themselves; indeed, one of the reasons for Bitcoin's creation was to break the artificial barriers which prevent so many people around the world from attaining prosperity. However, if your attempts to make money conflict with the forum's primary goal of enabling discussion, then you are swimming upstream, and you will not be sucessful in the end.

If you view the forum as some sort of "job" where you complete some basic tasks and get paid, then you will almost certainly be disappointed, and the forum administration will not be sympathetic. If you do make money using the forum, then it will be through innovation and entrepreneurship, not any sort of mindless busywork.

They have absolutely ZERO motivation to give others Merit because if anything giving others Merit will give them more competition in the signature campaigns.

Many users (old-era and new-era) were ranked up. They are evidence that your statement is not accurate.

• Bitcointalk Ranking-up pipeline- Those close to their next rank (lacking Merits)

The cancer that is Facebook with constant dopamine-addiction and global mass insanity and people just creating posts to get a like has also made its way to Bitcointalk now.

Please don't compare Bitcointalk forum to Facebook.

[actmyname]

I remember back in the day when I had to farm likes on Facebook so I could post "Marty's Apples" under my posts in a new Facebook Signature Campaign, which was definitely a secure job that made me create a mass of spam.It's the bounties of the altcoin cesspool that cause your discussion board to be tainted by such shit: that, and a lack of additional moderator support for locking down useless threads.

You have a report button, so start using it.

[acroman08]

People with a lot of Merit can earn $50 in BTC a week easily and more in signature campaigns. They have absolutely ZERO motivation to give others Merit because if anything giving others Merit will give them more competition in the signature campaigns.

only an insecure person would think like that. and if there is someone like that in the forum there are tons of members and members that are merit sources who give merits to those that deserve it.

Was a great time but until this system is changed I rather write in some old mailing lists or even to my own notepad because there I have control over my words and thoughts and am not influenced by retarded distractions as the Merit system.

Have a nice day!

goodbye then. you would have had control of your words and thoughts if you weren't so desperate to earn merits.

[suchmoon]

It's been a while since we've had a good anti-merit rant. Unfortunately this one isn't even that good, just the same old fake complaints. Merits are not scarce, good posts are. Throwing a tantrum and threatening to stop posting here won't impress anyone.

[DaveF]

It's been a while since we've had a good anti-merit rant. Unfortunately this one isn't even that good, just the same old fake complaints. Merits are not scarce, good posts are. Throwing a tantrum and threatening to stop posting here won't impress anyone.

OP get out of the altcoin section(s) and post some GOOD posts elsewhere and you should be able to get some more merit.
This is bitcointalk, you are going to get more traction talking about BTC then alts.
Yes, you can get merits in the alts, I have gotten some there and sent some there. But, I tend to, as do others, give more merit on the boards in the bitcoin section.

I also see you post a lot in the German section, no idea how many merits flow there, that might also be an issue, can't be sure since I don't speak German.

-Dave

[The Cryptovator]

It seems you have received a few merits recently, but wondering why you are complaining about it. If no one cares then how you have received merits? Peoples care, but only on a quality post or a good post at least, its depend on the sender. Good contributors always try to spread his/her merits on good posts, no only busy with earning from here. If someone from good contributors doesn't receive merits, then it doesn't mean the merit system is worst, possibly other users did not notice the post.

[YOSHIE]

I try to review the local German section.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=16.0
Not like you said everything is fine and running smoothly, every topic has a merit.

I think it's not a Merit system like Facebook, your broken way of thinking is like Facebook.
You don't have to wait for the system to change to write something interesting, you can just do a scam in the Bounty section, if that's better for you.

$50 in Bitcoin per week, it is given to forward-thinking members, such as the creators of Bitcoin, members who complain and think badly, are simply not suitable to receive $50 in Bitcoin per week.

If you continue to think the Merit system can spoil your mind, you can choose to stop posting on this forum and do anything unrelated to the Merit system out there, it's better to make your nerves normal.

No one forces you to do something here, if you are happy, do it and if you are not happy to do you can find another forum, very easy way of thinking is not it.

[hilariousetc]

People with a lot of Merit can earn $50 in BTC a week easily and more in signature campaigns. They have absolutely ZERO motivation to give others Merit because if anything giving others Merit will give them more competition in the signature campaigns.

The cancer that is Facebook with constant dopamine-addiction and global mass insanity and people just creating posts to get a like has also made its way to Bitcointalk now.

While Bitcoin promised to destroy the established system now and this place was great for discussions, now its just another Facebook. The old quality of message boards that you can still see in Posts by Satoshi and many others (in OLD posts where people actually made thoughtful posts and did own research and posted about experiences) is now completely disappeared because people rather make posts thinking they will get a like, or to spam their X posts a week for their signature campaigns.

While its great to offer people a way to earn bitcoin, basing this so much on the merit system is the stupidest thing Bitcointalk has ever done and it has ruined these forums. I must have seen the exact same ETH-shill post in different words 50 times last week in the Altcoin disussion board. Always by different usernames but probably the same people/same guy running all them in his bot network.

Was a great time but until this system is changed I rather write in some old mailing lists or even to my own notepad because there I have control over my words and thoughts and am not influenced by retarded distractions as the Merit system.

Have a nice day!

What I think you mean to say is signature campaigns have ruined the forum, which is obviously why you're complaining in the first place. It's not merit that has ruined it for everyone but shitposters who came here in the masses. The merit system was meant to be a way to stop people coming here only to earn via posting and before the merit system anyone could farm as many accounts as they wanted to abuse campaigns hence why something needed to change. I agree it can be quite hard to get sufficient merit to achieve a high rank but it's not impossible and you seem to have a got a decent bit of it recently. With that being said, I'm still in favour of letting users bypass the merit system by giving them the option to buy new donator ranks that come with the benefits of some of the higher ranks ie Silver Member gets you Senior status in all but name and so on. I think that would help those who are struggling to get merit or are impatient.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Whenever I find a post worth reading, I will give it merit, if I have any.

So do I, but I'm a merit source and it's kind of my voluntary job.

I do agree with OP that the average member with very few sMerits to give isn't going to be motivated to get rid of them unless they're feeling generous, but that's why Theymos has merit sources patrolling for good posts.  The whole system would probably not work without sources for the reasons you've given.

Why is this now a problem for you, OP?  You've been here for a few years and likely could have ranked up faster had you just posted more and perhaps put in a little more effort into your posts (though I haven't checked your post history).  Very few posts get merited, period.  Therefore you kind of have to be a prolific poster in order to earn a lot of merits (or an outstanding one, which is rare).  Good luck.

It's been a while since we've had a good anti-merit rant. Unfortunately this one isn't even that good, just the same old fake complaints. Merits are not scarce, good posts are. Throwing a tantrum and threatening to stop posting here won't impress anyone.

You got all that right.  Anyone check OP's post history?  I think I'll do that after writing this, see if there's anything worth meriting.  I've often encouraged people to PM me with requests to look at their posts, but only one or two members have ever done so.

Edit:  I gave OP a few merits for some of his previous posts, which were pretty good/informative.  I'd encourage him and anyone else to contact me as described above, and I'll review your posts--just don't beg for merits.

[muenze]

not suprised everyone in a sig campaign disagreeing

[The Sceptical Chymist]

not suprised everyone in a sig campaign disagreeing

And you must have missed my post, then. 

I will reiterate my point that you've been a member since August 2017 and have made only 631 posts.  What are you expecting?  It isn't supposed to be easy to earn merits; that's the whole point of the merit system, to suppress shitposters and reward members who put in a decent amount of thought and effort into what they're writing.  I'd say you have a pretty good merit/post ratio.  I've certainly seen members with ones that are a lot less.

[muenze]

I will reiterate my point that you've been a member since August 2017 and have made only 631 posts.  What are you expecting?  It isn't supposed to be easy to earn merits; that's the whole point of the merit system, to suppress shitposters and reward members who put in a decent amount of thought and effort into what they're writing.  I'd say you have a pretty good merit/post ratio.  I've certainly seen members with ones that are a lot less.

I take breaks. Like sometimes I havent posted for months. Which also was the case from the great depression after last Altcoin crash. Why should only people be rewarded who post here only or mainly for merit and forum rank? I imagine there is whole bot networks just to make money here from sig campaigns. Giving merit to each other or selling it.. I mean really it makes more sense to buy hacked accounts than waste your time hunting for merit and help ruin the forum with spam posts and a merit focused discussion instead of quality posts in a bitcoin focused discussion.

My arguments were completely ignored. I get it you (you as in everyone with a sig) want to protect the system you are benefitting from. But why would someone with a lot of Merit and in Sig Campaigns ever give out Merit? All he would be doing is cause more people to get to high forum ranks and steal slots in the best Sig campaigns from him. You may be an exception but most humans would say what you say then act completely different. Just like for example with cheap meat from insanely large, cruel animal farms. Nobody admits they are buying it yet almost everyone (90%) does it.

The reasoning I gave was mostly ignored. The merit system helps fry everyones brain and go for cheap & quick rewards in life only just like with the Facebook/Smartphone generation. But its just like with the meat, nobody ever will admit it to themselves.

All this does is create mindless sheeps who are easily distracted, and having your own opinion and formulating is PUNISHED because swimming with the mass gets you the likes/merit. Its a very bad situation and it will help destroy Bitcoin once the people who can still do analytical thinking will just destroy the mass.

[RickDeckard]

I take breaks. Like sometimes I havent posted for months. Which also was the case from the great depression after last Altcoin crash. Why should only people be rewarded who post here only or mainly for merit and forum rank? I imagine there is whole bot networks just to make money here from sig campaigns. Giving merit to each other or selling it.. I mean really it makes more sense to buy hacked accounts than waste your time hunting for merit and help ruin the forum with spam posts and a merit focused discussion instead of quality posts in a bitcoin focused discussion.

That's the issue with the way that you're thinking OP. One shouldn't be hunting for merit. That is not why the system was put into place. The system was implemented to discourage spam posts and increase the quality of the content generated by the community. You can look to your activity in this forum as a discussion of yours in any group of friends : you intervene and share your ideas only when you think they add value / create discussion about them right? You're not expecting anything else in return (expect contributing to the flow of the discussion). It's the same way of thinking that you should apply here.

My arguments were completely ignored. I get it you (you as in everyone with a sig) want to protect the system you are benefitting from. But why would someone with a lot of Merit and in Sig Campaigns ever give out Merit? All he would be doing is cause more people to get to high forum ranks and steal slots in the best Sig campaigns from him. You may be an exception but most humans would say what you say then act completely different. Just like for example with cheap meat from insanely large, cruel animal farms. Nobody admits they are buying it yet almost everyone (90%) does it.

What is this tremendous hate for people that are running campaigns for other services? Is this jealously? Do you want to achieve that same "spot" but weren't unable to so far and you feel frustrated? My advice for you OP, since you seem to be focused on just climbing up and get some random campaign, is to first, change your personality. Don't just set a bar for " I want to be a Member or Hero Member to get into Y campaign" because that alone isn't enough for you to reach it. You first have to become the person that is able to achieve those ranks and then you can try to achieve them.

Make your habit (positive/helpful posting) be something consistent. I've had good results applying this way of thinking in other areas of my life. I really recommend that you read this book : Atomic Habits by James Clear

The reasoning I gave was mostly ignored. The merit system helps fry everyones brain and go for cheap & quick rewards in life only just like with the Facebook/Smartphone generation. But its just like with the meat, nobody ever will admit it to themselves.

All this does is create mindless sheeps who are easily distracted, and having your own opinion and formulating is PUNISHED because swimming with the mass gets you the likes/merit. Its a very bad situation and it will help destroy Bitcoin once the people who can still do analytical thinking will just destroy the mass.

I don't understand this way of thinking mate. There is so free speech in this forum, how can you possibly say that "having your own opinion and formulationg is PUNISHED"?. Could you provide some examples where you saw that happen?

[muenze]

That's the issue with the way that you're thinking OP. One shouldn't be hunting for merit.

See, thats the perfect example of a merit-hunting post. You pretend someone is wrong,
claim the morale high ground and theres an issue so you can gain some merit

Thats also how the media has been doing it for a while keeping
everyone hooked. They just make up issues and that gets them attention and clicks.
Which has led us pretty much to mass insanity and people completely addicted to
quick dopamine rewards.

Whether theres an actual issue or not does not even matter because for them its just about their
personal benefit.

You could barely make a thoughtful post on bitcoin future because it will soon get either pushed
back or flooded from all the signature posters.

I have tried asking people to give good, cheap altcoin suggestions and 99% I get replies by
people pushing ETH with always the same type of posts that I have no doubt are auto generated
with text spinners or other text tools, maybe even AI.

I mean I get it, its a pretty significant amount you can make here, when people use several
accounts they can probably replace their job. In some countries maybe even already with just
one account.

Then they can use that to push Merit to their other accounts, or to their friends, so they always
receive Merit back. None of that actually improves post quality ever.

With the continous Bitcoin rise you could be looking at making a small fortune all based on
spam posting. Sure not all make spam posts, but I mentioned the issues and none of you even
has disagreed.

Also you just need to look in the Signature Campaign threads. It shows the people who want to
sign up and they post their merit received in the last 120 days. Its usually like 5 or 10 Merit.
So currently you are looking at 5 years to improve one forum rank.

Like why would YOU merit anyone for a quality post when you can just merit your friends or
your alt accounts? Not a rhetorical question. You think theres no actual issue with that, why?

[RickDeckard]

That's the issue with the way that you're thinking OP. One shouldn't be hunting for merit.

See, thats the perfect example of a merit-hunting post. You pretend someone is wrong,
claim the morale high ground and theres an issue so you can gain some merit

Thats also how the media has been doing it for a while keeping
everyone hooked. They just make up issues and that gets them attention and clicks.
Which has led us pretty much to mass insinity and people completely addicted to
quick dopamine rewards.

Let's pretend that it's just you and me on this conversation ok mate? I'm going to tell you a secret of mine : I don't pretend/intend to run campaigns on my avatar/signature related to services (i.e casino, mixers) advertised on here.Not because I have anything against them, I would just prefer not to. So now that we've got that out of the way, why should I be worried about making "merit-hunting posts"? Do you think that all of us are "sheeps" because we defend a system that has been proved to work ever since it was implemented? The same number of voices that support this system would be the same number of voices that would be against it if it was implemented in a poorly way.

I have tried asking people to give good, cheap altcoin suggestions and 99% I get replies by
people pushing ETH with always the same type of posts that I have no doubt are auto generated
with text spinners or other text tools, maybe even AI.

Again, could you provide some examples where that happened mate? I would gladly read your answers / thread to understand how you got this view of the forum/system in place.

I mean I get it, its a pretty significant amount you can make here, when people use several
accounts they can probably replace their job. In some countries maybe even already with just
one account.

Then they can use that to push Merit to their other accounts, or to their friends, so they always
receive Merit back. None of that actually improves post quality ever.

You act as if whoever runs these campaigns just trows their money to the first user that goes to them. In reality there are a couple of campaigns (if not all) that have a huge list of requirements other than "be a Member or Hero Member".
Anyone that just tries to "give himself merit" from their alt accounts will face the same problem that it faces in the other accounts : without providing good, positive and helpful posts they won't get their money for advertising.

Like why would YOU merit anyone for a quality post when you can just merit your friends or
your alt accounts? Not a rhetorical question. You think theres no actual issue with that, why?

I don't think anyone would go to the extent of creating hundreds of accounts to give back sMerit to his main account and then repeat this process without being caught. Besides the tremendous amount of work that implies, with the time that you wasted doing that you could had created some really helpful posts :p
But I'm open to debate on that issue. Do you have any proof that supports your claims?

EDIT: Ah! I've just told you a secret of mine on my 100th post! Congrats to us!

[actmyname]

Like why would YOU merit anyone for a quality post when you can just merit your friends or
your alt accounts? Not a rhetorical question. You think theres no actual issue with that, why?

Tit for tat strategy. Encourage honest meriting and look for reciprocation.RETURN
RETURN
Also see: mutually assured destruction, social contract, status quoRETURNAlso, what's the problem with merit in general? All it does is add a further restriction to leveling up - good for preventing spam.