2Miners Is Reducing It’s Solo Pool Miners Blocks Up to 50% To Subsidize Its PPLN

[Ardvark69]

Unfortunately during our review of how other pools operate we have found disturbing news. We have verified this with other knowledgeable miners outside our pool over the past few days but ask that everyone reading this please also verify it for themselves.

Most large mining pools offer free transactions by transferring on their own blocks. This leads to their miners making a few % less in return for free payouts. This is not public knowledge but a few miners already knew about it before we posted it.

2miners has a solo mining pool of ~8.9 TH/s currently and they charge 1.5% for this service. We have discovered that they are reducing their solo miners blocks heavily to cover payouts to their PPLNS pool’s miners. You can see in the below example that this solo miner is losing out on half the space in the block for loading transactions. He thus gets 2+1.71 whereas the previous block was 2+4.07 and the one before that was 2+3.57.
https://etherscan.io/block/11810728

This reduces payment by 2ETH to a single individual to cover their PPLNS’s pool’s payouts.

The below graph visualizes their solo pool’s blocks and how much of them is being filled with their internal transactions.

https://i.imgur.com/mF2vzmU.png
Here’s another example and the PPLNS transactions inside it
https://etherscan.io/block/11829751
https://i.imgur.com/LUlrkBq.png

[sxemini]

Unfortunately during our review of how other pools operate we have found disturbing news. We have verified this with other knowledgeable miners outside our pool over the past few days but ask that everyone reading this please also verify it for themselves.

Most large mining pools offer free transactions by transferring on their own blocks. This leads to their miners making a few % less in return for free payouts. This is not public knowledge but a few miners already knew about it before we posted it.

2miners has a solo mining pool of ~8.9 TH/s currently and they charge 1.5% for this service. We have discovered that they are reducing their solo miners blocks heavily to cover payouts to their PPLNS pool’s miners. You can see in the below example that this solo miner is losing out on half the space in the block for loading transactions. He thus gets 2+1.71 whereas the previous block was 2+4.07 and the one before that was 2+3.57.
https://etherscan.io/block/11810728

This reduces payment by 2ETH to a single individual to cover their PPLNS’s pool’s payouts.

The below graph visualizes their solo pool’s blocks and how much of them is being filled with their internal transactions.


Here’s another example and the PPLNS transactions inside it
https://etherscan.io/block/11829751

i see no problem. You don´t see the guy who has one the specifi block, so how will you see that he only get 50%?

Block reward depends on the tx fee´s every block. So can you explain more, i think you are on the wrong way.

Check this guy, he get more than 2 eth per block https://solo-eth.2miners.com/account/0xc4Bb7C12bCa8c90Ad08f815C5E29431807f00Ba6#rewards-tab

And by the way, the 2miners solo pool have 1.8TH and not 8.9TH. Did you do some research by yourself?

[Ardvark69]

Unfortunately during our review of how other pools operate we have found disturbing news. We have verified this with other knowledgeable miners outside our pool over the past few days but ask that everyone reading this please also verify it for themselves.

Most large mining pools offer free transactions by transferring on their own blocks. This leads to their miners making a few % less in return for free payouts. This is not public knowledge but a few miners already knew about it before we posted it.

2miners has a solo mining pool of ~8.9 TH/s currently and they charge 1.5% for this service. We have discovered that they are reducing their solo miners blocks heavily to cover payouts to their PPLNS pool’s miners. You can see in the below example that this solo miner is losing out on half the space in the block for loading transactions. He thus gets 2+1.71 whereas the previous block was 2+4.07 and the one before that was 2+3.57.
https://etherscan.io/block/11810728

This reduces payment by 2ETH to a single individual to cover their PPLNS’s pool’s payouts.

The below graph visualizes their solo pool’s blocks and how much of them is being filled with their internal transactions.

https://i.imgur.com/mF2vzmU.png
Here’s another example and the PPLNS transactions inside it
https://etherscan.io/block/11829751
https://i.imgur.com/LUlrkBq.png

i see no problem. You don´t see the guy who has one the specifi block, so how will you see that he only get 50%?

Block reward depends on the tx fee´s every block. So can you explain more, i think you are on the wrong way.

Check this guy, he get more than 2 eth per block https://solo-eth.2miners.com/account/0xc4Bb7C12bCa8c90Ad08f815C5E29431807f00Ba6#rewards-tab

And by the way, the 2miners solo pool have 1.8TH and not 8.9TH. Did you do some research by yourself?

Thanks for posting the pictures I don't know why they don't show on my original post.

The discussion of this practice is on the reddit, people smarter than me are going into detail as they discuss it. To me this is like having two clients and taking from one customer's trust account to give to another, which would generally get the SEC on you like a ton of bricks. Not sure about what happens to companies that do this in Russia.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/lgxt4m/2miners_is_reducing_its_solo_pool_miners_blocks/?sort=new

[skablast]

even if its true, I don't understand why they would like to do this

[JayDDee]

Pure FUD. Solo blocks are not shared with pool miners. The finder (solo or pool)
gets the tx fees for the block they found. The pool has no control over this.
Internal transactions don't exist on the blockchain, the're just for accounting.
PPLNS has nothing to do with how much a block pays out, only how to split
the block reward among the pool miners, and only for blocks found by the pool.

[Ardvark69]

Pure FUD. Solo blocks are not shared with pool miners. The finder (solo or pool)
gets the tx fees for the block they found. The pool has no control over this.
Internal transactions don't exist on the blockchain, the're just for accounting.
PPLNS has nothing to do with how much a block pays out, only how to split
the block reward among the pool miners, and only for blocks found by the pool.

Wait what? Pools can reject outside transactions when loading blocks on their node and instead load cheap 1gwei transactions. This is common knowledge among the ETH community. I'm not sure what the second half of your paragraph is talking about. Pools like Ethermine would bankrupt themselves if they had to pay market price to send out payouts to miners constantly.

This article describing how this is done may be of use to you https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/l3xyaj/research_on_1_gwei_pool_transactions_or_mining_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[P00P135]

Pure FUD. Solo blocks are not shared with pool miners. The finder (solo or pool)
gets the tx fees for the block they found. The pool has no control over this.
Internal transactions don't exist on the blockchain, the're just for accounting.
PPLNS has nothing to do with how much a block pays out, only how to split
the block reward among the pool miners, and only for blocks found by the pool.

This is how flexpool operates.  They try disparage and discredit other pools to make themselves look like the best pool to use.  They have shills all over reddit with 1-2day mining comparisons showing why everyone should switch    Its pretty comical to see but surprising how many new miners fall for it and are actually switching over.

[Ardvark69]

Pure FUD. Solo blocks are not shared with pool miners. The finder (solo or pool)
gets the tx fees for the block they found. The pool has no control over this.
Internal transactions don't exist on the blockchain, the're just for accounting.
PPLNS has nothing to do with how much a block pays out, only how to split
the block reward among the pool miners, and only for blocks found by the pool.

This is how flexpool operates.  They try disparage and discredit other pools to make themselves look like the best pool to use.  They have shills all over reddit with 1-2day mining comparisons showing why everyone should switch    Its pretty comical to see but surprising how many new miners fall for it and are actually switching over.

We don't push them to post those they do it themselves.....that being said new miner's aren't the only ones switching over, Ethermine's biggest single customer switched over half his hash too. Its likely what prompted them to raise payout minimums.

Nothing we've said isn't true. We've provided the block data off etherscan and you can see that several of the solo mining pool's blocks are filled with low gwei PPLNS pool payouts instead of higher paying ones. Honestly I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on here, ETH transactions are 100% transparent you can see the block filled with 1gwei transactions which pay a lot less than that solo miner would have gotten. Is the strategy just to insult us to try to pretend the data doesn't exist? ETH is about transparency, we are revealing things that are apparent if you examine the data. We are revealing that solo miners on 2 miners are losing millions upon millions to help subsidize 2miner's other pool's customers.

If you really want to see someone try to disparage and discredit other pools you can see one of the 2 miners try to accuse our pool of using cheap hardware or being vulnerable to attack here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/lgnds6/flexpool_is_good_initial_impressions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

If you knew this was happening why didn't you speak up before now and prevent this? And if you didn't then you should thank us for revealing it rather than allowing it to remain hidden.

[JayDDee]

This is how flexpool operates.  They try disparage and discredit other pools to make themselves look like the best pool to use.  They have shills all over reddit with 1-2day mining comparisons showing why everyone should switch    Its pretty comical to see but surprising how many new miners fall for it and are actually switching over.

We don't push them to post those they do it themselves.....that being said new miner's aren't the only ones switching over, Ethermine's biggest single customer switched over half his hash too. Its likely what prompted them to raise payout minimums.

Nothing we've said isn't true. We've provided the block data off etherscan and you can see that several of the solo mining pool's blocks are filled with low gwei PPLNS pool payouts instead of higher paying ones. Honestly I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on here, ETH transactions are 100% transparent you can see the block filled with 1gwei transactions which pay a lot less than that solo miner would have gotten.

LOL. A classic trumpian smear. It's never him, it's always "people are saying" or "I've been hearing".

[Ardvark69]

This is how flexpool operates.  They try disparage and discredit other pools to make themselves look like the best pool to use.  They have shills all over reddit with 1-2day mining comparisons showing why everyone should switch    Its pretty comical to see but surprising how many new miners fall for it and are actually switching over.

We don't push them to post those they do it themselves.....that being said new miner's aren't the only ones switching over, Ethermine's biggest single customer switched over half his hash too. Its likely what prompted them to raise payout minimums.

Nothing we've said isn't true. We've provided the block data off etherscan and you can see that several of the solo mining pool's blocks are filled with low gwei PPLNS pool payouts instead of higher paying ones. Honestly I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on here, ETH transactions are 100% transparent you can see the block filled with 1gwei transactions which pay a lot less than that solo miner would have gotten.

LOL. A classic trumpian smear. It's never him, it's always "people are saying" or "I've been hearing".

Do you deny that 2miners is reducing its Solo Pool miners incomes by transferring its PPLNS pool's miners transactions on their blocks? I don't want to use the big C or F words but these are very serious accusations that we didn't make lightly so if you have evidence to deny them please provide it so we can post a correction.

[FloppyPurpleGherkin]

Cheeky.

[crsminer]

This is how flexpool operates.  They try disparage and discredit other pools to make themselves look like the best pool to use.  They have shills all over reddit with 1-2day mining comparisons showing why everyone should switch    Its pretty comical to see but surprising how many new miners fall for it and are actually switching over.

We don't push them to post those they do it themselves.....that being said new miner's aren't the only ones switching over, Ethermine's biggest single customer switched over half his hash too. Its likely what prompted them to raise payout minimums.

Nothing we've said isn't true. We've provided the block data off etherscan and you can see that several of the solo mining pool's blocks are filled with low gwei PPLNS pool payouts instead of higher paying ones. Honestly I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on here, ETH transactions are 100% transparent you can see the block filled with 1gwei transactions which pay a lot less than that solo miner would have gotten.

LOL. A classic trumpian smear. It's never him, it's always "people are saying" or "I've been hearing".

Do you deny that 2miners is reducing its Solo Pool miners incomes by transferring its PPLNS pool's miners transactions on their blocks? I don't want to use the big C or F words but these are very serious accusations that we didn't make lightly so if you have evidence to deny them please provide it so we can post a correction.

Is this true?

[lulucorn]

Oh look Flexpool shill starting their campaign at Bitcointalk.org now. Well can't blame since their reddit campaign worked so well.

[JayDDee]

Do you deny that 2miners is reducing its Solo Pool miners incomes by transferring its PPLNS pool's miners transactions on their blocks? I don't want to use the big C or F words but these are very serious accusations that we didn't make lightly so if you have evidence to deny them please provide it so we can post a correction.

I have no idea what 2miners is doing or not doing, but I do know that what you're saying is pure crap.

There's no such thing as a PPLNS transaction, PPLNS it's just a way to count pooled shares for payout to pool miners.
It has nothing to do with solo mining and there's no transferring involved.

The amount of block reward fluctuates based on the transactions stored in that block. Anyone can find any block,
and they get all of (solo) or a share of (pooled) the block reward including the bonus for transactions included in that block.
It's random and based on luck.

It's easy to find a series of blocks taken out of context to show anything you want, but that's not proof of anything.

BTW, another trumpian touch: make an accusation and challenge others to prove you wrong. Things don't work
that way, the burden of proof is on the accuser.

[Ardvark69]

Do you deny that 2miners is reducing its Solo Pool miners incomes by transferring its PPLNS pool's miners transactions on their blocks? I don't want to use the big C or F words but these are very serious accusations that we didn't make lightly so if you have evidence to deny them please provide it so we can post a correction.

I have no idea what 2miners is doing or not doing, but I do know that what you're saying is pure crap.

There's no such thing as a PPLNS transaction, PPLNS it's just a way to count pooled shares for payout to pool miners.
It has nothing to do with solo mining and there's no transferring involved.

The amount of block reward fluctuates based on the transactions stored in that block. Anyone can find any block,
and they get all of (solo) or a share of (pooled) the block reward including the bonus for transactions included in that block.
It's random and based on luck.

It's easy to find a series of blocks taken out of context to show anything you want, but that's not proof of anything.

BTW, another trumpian touch: make an accusation and challenge others to prove you wrong. Things don't work
that way, the burden of proof is on the accuser.

2miners has two pools solo and pplns. When I say PPLNS I am referring to transactions coming from their PPLNS pool.
What we are saying is that when a block is found for their solo miners, instead of loading it from the market 2miners will reserve a portion of that block that can be up to 50%+ for their PPLNS pool's transactions. These transactions are at 1gwei so they pay a lot less to the solo miner than the market ones would. In this way they subsidize/benefit their PPLNS miners by offering them frequent/free transactions at the expense of their solo miners.

We have provided evidence of this if your excuse is that I don't like you so I won't review your evidence-> you must be wrong because I don't like you...... well then I can't reply to that. Go mine on solo 2miners if you think we must be wrong.

[Ardvark69]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/803008577228898338/818960133085331546/image0.jpg?width=619&height=613

A good example.

[astraleureka]

this is pretty normal for coins on any algorithm ... the only unusual part is that they put all PPLNS payouts in solo blocks only. why not include PPLNS payments in all blocks they create?