Can China takeover Bitcoin network?

[very_452001]

Most btc mining is done in China because electricity is cheap there and all mining hardware originates from there also right?

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

Has the chinese government or chinese central bank added bitcoins to their treasury reserves apart from the tons of gold they have been buying recently?

If the chinese govenment/central bank has bitcoins in its treasury then there is no incentive for them to raid and take control of the mining pools in china otherwise they be shooting themselves in the foot right because they be crashing the price value of their btc treasury reserves correct?

Do you think electricity will get more expensive in China and by when? Higher electricity costs should encourage mining out of China to other countries so the mining becomes more decentralized.

Finally if the Chinese government/central bank dont have bitcoins in their treasuries and release their digital chinese currency CBDC then from there what guarantees can be made to long term btc investors that the chinese regime wont raid btc mining pools in China or torturing/threatening mining pool owners into handing over the hashrate control to them or force mining pool owners to get together together into 1 big mining pool company owned by the chinese authorities?

[Oshosondy]

How can China take over bitcoin network? It is not just possible in any way. China miners dominate on bitcoin mining, but not in a way they will take over the network, the domination is reducing drastically as their government is becoming hostile to bitcoin mining a little. In 2019, China mine 75% of bitcoin, in 2020 China mine 65% of bitcoin, can you see how the mining by miners in China are reducing drastically. And even with this, how can they control bitcoin network, it is not possible while bitcoin they mine are mostly sold out of China.

[Upgrade00]

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

I believe a bulk of the mining hashrate is as a result of mining pools; miners from all over the world concentrate their computing power to a single server to increase the chances of them getting the next block collectively. This does not mean the hashrate is controlled by China, miners can easily switch to pools from other nations.

Finally if the Chinese government/central bank dont have bitcoins in their treasuries and release their digital chinese currency CBDC then from there what guarantees can be made to long term btc investors that the chinese regime wont raid btc mining pools in China or torturing/threatening mining pool owners into handing over the hashrate control to them or force mining pool owners to get together together into 1 big mining pool company owned by the chinese authorities?

As I said, the pools are not controlled so miners can as easily switch and reduce the hashrate to those pools. China has been restrictive to bitcoin adoption for a couple of years now, it's unlikely they will get to manipulate the network as consensus rule can be used to render certain chains invalid.

[Xavofat]

More important than the fact that the majority of mining takes place in China is the fact that the majority of ASIC devices are manufactured by one company: BITMAIN, which is a Chinese company.

The restrictions on BTC in China are not necessarily because China doesn't see any benefit in BTC business, but because the government wants to suppress any attempt to access the free Internet.  If a monopoly like BITMAIN is operating in China they will be more interested in controlling as much of the company's activities as possible rather than restricting BTC as a whole.

[very_452001]

How can China take over bitcoin network? It is not just possible in any way. China miners dominate on bitcoin mining, but not in a way they will take over the network, the domination is reducing drastically as their government is becoming hostile to bitcoin mining a little. In 2019, China mine 75% of bitcoin, in 2020 China mine 65% of bitcoin, can you see how the mining by miners in China are reducing drastically. And even with this, how can they control bitcoin network, it is not possible while bitcoin they mine are mostly sold out of China.

Okay if the trend continues to below 50% then that is a good sign for btc.

Selling btc out of china has nothing to do with the btc network. For example I can buy and have all the bitcoins in circulation now in the world with no effect on the btc network whatsoever. Miners do.

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

I believe a bulk of the mining hashrate is as a result of mining pools; miners from all over the world concentrate their computing power to a single server to increase the chances of them getting the next block collectively. This does not mean the hashrate is controlled by China, miners can easily switch to pools from other nations.

Finally if the Chinese government/central bank dont have bitcoins in their treasuries and release their digital chinese currency CBDC then from there what guarantees can be made to long term btc investors that the chinese regime wont raid btc mining pools in China or torturing/threatening mining pool owners into handing over the hashrate control to them or force mining pool owners to get together together into 1 big mining pool company owned by the chinese authorities?

As I said, the pools are not controlled so miners can as easily switch and reduce the hashrate to those pools. China has been restrictive to bitcoin adoption for a couple of years now, it's unlikely they will get to manipulate the network as consensus rule can be used to render certain chains invalid.

Okay so you saying miners can simply change their pool to another country by simply changing the settings in the mining software/interface and that will cause china to lose some hashrate?

Do the miners have to do this before a potential takeover by the chinese state or can it be done afterwards or too late by then?

More important than the fact that the majority of mining takes place in China is the fact that the majority of ASIC devices are manufactured by one company: BITMAIN, which is a Chinese company.

The restrictions on BTC in China are not necessarily because China doesn't see any benefit in BTC business, buy because the government wants to suppress any attempt to access the free Internet.  If a monopoly like BITMAIN is operating in China they will be more interested in controlling as much of the company's activities as possible rather than restricting BTC as a whole.

Dont the chinese state see any taxable benefits in the btc business?

China can pass any law without the chinese people approval. They cant ban bitcoin but they can bitcoin mining in China if they want and if they do that how secure will the btc network be with half of its hashrate wiped off overnight? Can the btc network auto adjust quickly to any quick change in mining circumstances before any attacks to it?

Whats bitcoin got to do with free internet? Bitcoin is a currency not a website where the chinese state can restrict access to sites like facebook, youtube etc.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Dutchyyy]

In theory, investing a lot in miners and threatening the rest of the China miners, they can.

But it's pointless. If China takes control over the Bitcoin blockchain, they will cross the Rubicon, the price will plunge, and people will leave Bitcoin and move to another crypto.

[DapanasFruit]

I used to worry or be concern with the fact that majority of Bitcoin mining is coming from players in China and most of the mining equipment are made in China. However, I realized that in case China will decide to be stupid and make mining in their country controlled and run by the government they are just wasting their time because most probably miners from other sides of the world will just be taking over the business. In fact, this can be the big reason why China did not eventually ban Bitcoin mining because doing so is just shooting their own foot. Bitcoin mining is brining in important foreign currency to the Chinese economy and stopping it now is not going to be advantageous...however we can not predict what can happen in the coming years though. For now, there is nothing to be alarmed with.

[Wexnident]

Dont the chinese state see any taxable benefits in the btc business?

China can pass any law without the chinese people approval. They cant ban bitcoin but they can bitcoin mining in China if they want and if they do that how secure will the btc network be with half of its hashrate wiped off overnight? Can the btc network auto adjust quickly to any quick change in mining circumstances before any attacks to it?

Whats bitcoin got to do with free internet? Bitcoin is a currency not a website where the chinese state can restrict access to sites like facebook, youtube etc.

Well, that would just end up being met with disapproval. The very notion of Bitcoin was a disconnection from the centralized government, so the very moment China tries to profit off of mining with that, well, people would just straight up leave. Plus, it isn't like the network can be controlled by the government, nor can the influx of mining machines, so they really have no solid way to trace anyone who is mining. It's close to impossible just like how the very notion of China controlling the entire network is impossible since the former requires that they actually do the latter.

[Upgrade00]

Okay so you saying miners can simply change their pool to another country by simply changing the settings in the mining software/interface and that will cause china to lose some hashrate?

Miners  can simply disconnect from a certain pool server and either connect to another or mine solo. This would reduce the potential hashrate that a pool can provide

Do the miners have to do this before a potential takeover by the chinese state or can it be done afterwards or too late by then?

All the mining hardware which generates the hashrate is decentralized, so the miners can always switch. There is no situation where they would be stuck in a particular pool.

[YOSHIE]

Has the chinese government or chinese central bank added bitcoins to their treasury reserves apart from the tons of gold they have been buying recently?

The story is different from Bitcoin and Gold.
Gold does not have an internet network, it can be found in the real market.
Bitcoin can only be obtained on crypto exchanges and the like.

Although the Chinese have expertise in the world of the internet, technology, can create artificial suns etc, of course they cannot take over the Bitcoin network, Bitcoin is not only traded in China, all countries use Bitcoin.

If they buy Bitcoin in large quantities maybe it can, but they don't do it, bitcoin price is difficult to predict, their miscalculations can lose big, different from gold in the amount, price, and supply does not stop every day, in and out, new and old.

Bitcoin is not like that, the Bitcoin network cannot be controlled by China and any country, even though they are quite super in technology, Bitcoin is like a ghost, it can be seen and cannot be touched, if you can control a ghost you can control Bitcoin, that's for example.

[pooya87]

Most btc mining is done in China

No it is not

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate

You don't know that.
You are also confusing mining pool with miners. A mining pool is just a group of servers that actual miners with the actual hardware connect to. The pool also has no control over the hashrate, the miners can easily switch to another pool if the one they are connected to turns malicious.
You also have no way of knowing where these miners come from. They could be from anywhere on the planet.

meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

You can't decide "which transaction is valid" with 51% attack. You can only try and reverse a block that was mined by someone else.

[Swordsoffreedom]

You know, More than half of the world's Bitcoin mining potency is operated by China. Their computing power to mine Bitcoin is near around 65%. It's true that we can't ignore this, If somebody or someone has control over more than 50% of the total mining power, they can disrupt the operation of the plenary mining system, and they can do operate 51% attack.

But the good thing is, Even though they can do 51% attack. for this, they have to bear a lot of expenses and have to do a lot of effort and as output, they will get nothing but dust.
If 51% attacker uses their best effort they can't steal others money, the max thing they can do just disrupt the system and double-spend their holding BTC.

It makes no economical sense, I don't think the china Government will do such kind of nasty thing and harm their economical background by themself.

[Xavofat]

More important than the fact that the majority of mining takes place in China is the fact that the majority of ASIC devices are manufactured by one company: BITMAIN, which is a Chinese company.

The restrictions on BTC in China are not necessarily because China doesn't see any benefit in BTC business, buy because the government wants to suppress any attempt to access the free Internet.  If a monopoly like BITMAIN is operating in China they will be more interested in controlling as much of the company's activities as possible rather than restricting BTC as a whole.

Dont the chinese state see any taxable benefits in the btc business?

Yes, that's presumably why they haven't banned BITMAIN and some major Bitcoin related companies started in China (like the Huobi exchange).  They just ban the most egregious of speculative crypto use (including ICOs) and then allow people to keep using it in contexts that they are sure are legal.

how secure will the btc network be with half of its hashrate wiped off overnight? Can the btc network auto adjust quickly to any quick change in mining circumstances before any attacks to it?

Yes, every 2016 blocks the network adjusts its difficulty to keep the average rate of blocks being mined at approximately one every ten minutes.  This is usually about two weeks, but if the hashrate was halved it would take twice as long per block until the next difficulty adjustment.  The reward for each block, however, would increase because higher transaction fees would be required to include a transaction in the now less frequent blocks. 

One significant problem is that most mining pools are based in China.  The only mining pool not based in China with a significant percentage of the hashrate (about 10%) directed to it is Slush Pool, from the Czech Republic.

If Bitcoin pools and mining and everything was banned in China (assuming they know where all the people running them are), the remainder of the world's miners would redirect to smaller pools, removing the Chinese monopoly on mining and ultimately making the network more secure by getting rid of the risk of small groups in China reaching the 51% attack threshold (which BITMAIN approached in 2018).

Whats bitcoin got to do with free internet? Bitcoin is a currency not a website where the chinese state can restrict access to sites like facebook, youtube etc.

Bitcoin is intertwined with the free Internet.  Its users and HODLERS often have libertarian ideals and a fairly small amount (which the Chinese government could easily focus on) use it for crime.  Even though Bitcoin transactions cannot be directly prevented, China could create a culture of fear around using exchanges and accessing Bitcoin related websites.

[very_452001]

In the west that is USA and UK, the governments there are paranoid and banning Huawei from installing their communication equipment there because of a conspiracy theory they have of Huawei snooping/spying on UK and USA intel via hidden backdoor programs on Huawei's devices.

I most likely agree China wont shoot themselves in the foot by doing anything dodgy with bitcoin as that will slow them in this tech race to no. 1 tech superpower in the world. I see China being self-sustainable without relying on income from the west and for this to happen they cant shoot themselves in the foot I agree.

Most likely China will land the 1st man on planet Mars by 2030 and declare no.1 tech superpower in the world.

Yeah its a tech race and the the country with the best tech will be no.1 in the world and Bitcoin contributes towards that race.

[LittleBitFunny]

They can if they want, most of the mining power is generated by China, more than 60% of mining hash rate directly or indirectly are generated by them,
there is no other country that has close to their hashing power.
And the Chinese government has the character to take any decision without taking their people's opinion.
If Govt wants to centralized all of their mining operators under a single server then they can do that.
and if they do that, they can take over the majority of power and blocked the other miners, by doing this they can play a 51% attack to alter the broadcasted transactions.

[very_452001]

Okay I'm getting the sense that the readers of this thread are confused as there's replies here stating that China cant take over & there's also replies stating that China can take over the network 

So is this like a 50/50 debate that it is possible or not?

When it comes to computing/mathematics/logic there should be clear answer on issues like these unlike science where there's lots of theories and debates in that subject thus no clear answer in most of science.

So as of now Can China take over the Bitcoin Network as long China has over 51% of the hashrate correct? If so what reason will they have to do so?:

- If China central bank releases their programmable digital Yuan CBDC currency, will they see bitcoin as a threat to their new digital currency or will they let bitcoin continue and not interfere with it but program their Yuan CBDC by putting a 'stop buy bitcoin' algorithm in there to stop Chinese people buying Bitcoin with it?

[Pierre 2]

Well honestly speaking after reading your own comment I believe its possible in terms of mathematics, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen. I think there many other non-Chinese companies doing business with Bitcoin know that would hurt their business. They would spend a lot for it not to happen ever.
Answer for your second question, I think China may release somekind of national cryptocurrency (they are somekinda open to that kind of moves) but I don't think it will have affect on Bitcoin. I don't think they have plans to block people from trading Bitcoin as I am sure they are making great tax income over it.

[cr1776]

I think some of the confusion here is what precisely do you mean by "Can China takeover Bitcoin network?"

Does that mean some or all of the following or something else:
1. Can they 51% attack the network?   This depends on where the mining hardware is located and if miners would switch pools.  Most would.
2. Can they change the bitcoin protocol and force changes on the network?   They could fork it but it is doubtful nodes would switch to a negative fork.
3. Can they shut down the ASIC manufacturers so that there are no more miners being manufactured there?  (There are always places like TSMC which is outside China).  Of course they could.
4. Can they shut down mining pools and any mining hardware inside China?  Sure.
5. Can they put backdoors in the ASICs to remotely shutdown miners if they wanted?  Yes.
6. Can they block changes to the bitcoin protocol?  They might be able to force miners to not signal readiness, but as lightning showed, the nodes control the network, miners don't.
7. Could they block all transactions?  No.
8. Something else?  Perhaps enumerating would help to get more useful answers.

If China tried something nefarious, then it would be a reasonably easy change to the code to prevent the fork from impacting bitcoin itself.  The challenge would be to get nodes to switch software but in some type of catastrophic event most people running nodes would have incentive to follow the non-diabolical fork and just leave China with a useless fork.  One method could be by changing the hash function which would destroy the value of miners in the diabolical-fork.

So you'll get different answers depending on exactly what you meant and exactly what other people though you were asking?

[very_452001]

In Elon Musk recent tweet he tweeted that Bitcoin is not decentralized as he pointed out bitcoin losing 35% hash rate in that china power cut.

What everybody's take on this?

[diahsw]

If you take the bitcoin network, I think everyone can, especially in these countries with very developed technology, they will do what they want to dominate the world of bitcoin. But what we have to remember, is not only China that can, countries like Russia can too, even I would choose Russia which will take the bitcoin network instead of China.

[very_452001]

If you take the bitcoin network, I think everyone can, especially in these countries with very developed technology, they will do what they want to dominate the world of bitcoin. But what we have to remember, is not only China that can, countries like Russia can too, even I would choose Russia which will take the bitcoin network instead of China.

How much hash rate in Russia now?

[Angna27]

I don't think so, because there are many other countries who are now adapting, developing using bitcoin that means to say its their form of transaction, payment and other related matters and not only China has the capacity to do bitcoin, some countries who are more powerful, wealthy and great when comes to technology.

[very_452001]

Okay coming back here with the recent China Ban Bitcoin again FUD from China. Is this a good thing now for Bitcoin Hash rate becoming decentralized now?

China has cheap electricity so which countries the chinese miners will move to that also has cheap electricity so the chinese miners can continue mining btc if China really goes ahead with this FUD?

[Matrix.Max]

No will not happen,
Think Rainbow Foundation might have a chances to take over BTC Network.
since started they are following every required guideline from SEC

[very_452001]

No will not happen,
Think Rainbow Foundation might have a chances to take over BTC Network.
since started they are following every required guideline from SEC

Who the hell are the Rainbow Foundation? I googled it and its a LGBT group?

[nurilham]

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network

This is the reason why negative issues from China can give a serious impact on Bitcoin price. Yes, they have the power to influence Bitcoin price and crypto market trends. But they shouldn't have the power to take over or even control the Bitcoin network. They also mustn't attack the Bitcoin network, what for? Many people in China have a big number of Bitcoin. If they attack the Bitcoin network, they also get a negative impact. They mustn't do something that harms themselves.

[Swordsoffreedom]

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network

This is the reason why negative issues from China can give a serious impact on Bitcoin price. Yes, they have the power to influence Bitcoin price and crypto market trends. But they shouldn't have the power to take over or even control the Bitcoin network. They also mustn't attack the Bitcoin network, what for? Many people in China have a big number of Bitcoin. If they attack the Bitcoin network, they also get a negative impact. They mustn't do something that harms themselves.

China has done this before. Banning their crypto has no effect on the market now at all.
They make noise every now and then to manipulate the market, but they have been mining cryptocurrency for their own needs.

As you can see, China has recently banned financial and payment institutions that provide services in cryptocurrencies. This is a very bearish announcement for the cryptocurrency but the announcement did not have the desired effect on the market. So it is clear that their announcement does not bother investors much anymore.

[CaVO32]

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network

This is the reason why negative issues from China can give a serious impact on Bitcoin price. Yes, they have the power to influence Bitcoin price and crypto market trends. But they shouldn't have the power to take over or even control the Bitcoin network. They also mustn't attack the Bitcoin network, what for? Many people in China have a big number of Bitcoin. If they attack the Bitcoin network, they also get a negative impact. They mustn't do something that harms themselves.

China has done this before. Banning their crypto has no effect on the market now at all.
They make noise every now and then to manipulate the market, but they have been mining cryptocurrency for their own needs.

As you can see, China has recently banned financial and payment institutions that provide services in cryptocurrencies. This is a very bearish announcement for the cryptocurrency but the announcement did not have the desired effect on the market. So it is clear that their announcement does not bother investors much anymore.

They can make a noise in the market but one thing is sure here - crypto market will survive even without their participation. Though right now, there are so many mining companies located in this country but I think, some are already starting to pack up their things and look for much crypto-friendly areas. If you know how Chinese mindset works, then, you very well know that it is just their propaganda and in time, they will give another statement towards bitcoin or crypto accepting its existence in their market.

[nightrider]

I think China could take over the bitcoin network. This is a country with a developed science and technology. China has a lot of talented computer engineers. They can do a lot with bitcoin virtual currency. The bitcoin market is thriving in China. The Chinese government can regulate the bitcoin market. The proof is that the Central Bank of China does not accept bitcoin transactions. It caused the market to plummet without brakes.

[Karish2return]

Yes in some cases it can take over because If We are talking about electricity there then there Is as cheap as water so it is a well defined and well developed country so may be that is possible There. There are so many cases like these

[kryptqnick]

China is probably still the leading territory for mining farms. However, it doesn't mean that Chinese authorities have any control over mining. Moreover, it's not as easy to perform a 51% attack as it may seem because it'll require massive resources. And while technically possible, it'll probably last only briefly and all those resources will just be wasted.
As for Bitcoin decentralization, I think it is NOT about mining but about ownership of the coins by people and entities all over the world, and also about there being no single authority that could simply shut the network down or change the rules.

[yohananaomi]

China is probably still the leading territory for mining farms. However, it doesn't mean that Chinese authorities have any control over mining. Moreover, it's not as easy to perform a 51% attack as it may seem because it'll require massive resources. And while technically possible, it'll probably last only briefly and all those resources will just be wasted.
As for Bitcoin decentralization, I think it is NOT about mining but about ownership of the coins by people and entities all over the world, and also about there being no single authority that could simply shut the network down or change the rules.

that indeed we have to admit that almost all mining roles are in China, at least we see that this role is real because of the deep correction of bitcoin from the influence of the bad news. as you said that I totally agree, the Chinese authorities will not be able to control it, because it will indeed run into many problems that will be experienced. it is not just a ban, but many sectors will be affected which will make all also relate to one another.

It should be true that you said bitcoin decentralization is not only in mining, there are still many sectors that participate in the movement of bitcoin. it shouldn't be partially or at least for a while it could affect what happens to bitcoin, but it seems that many can not distinguish this and make it worse than bitcoin with the wrong steps taken. because panic alone will make a bad thing from bitcoin, therefore it must be able to reduce not taking steps that actually worsen bitcoin itself.

[Kakmakr]

OP, You are obsessed with China ..... and it is not a issue at all.

Yes, ASIC chips that are used for mining are manufactured in China, but a lot of those chips are exported to other countries. There are massive mining farms in Iceland and other countries too, so all mining are not located in China.

The Chinese government can seize all the mining equipment in China and it will not have an drastic impact on the security of Bitcoin. (Doing a 51% attack on Bitcoin is almost impossible now, because it requires a huge amount of hashing power ...and even if they succeed.. people will shift to other Pools to protect Bitcoin.)

After their first double spend, developers will make some changes (possibly a hard fork) to spoil their attack (That was something Gavin Andreson said, when he was still lead developer of Bitcoin) ... or people will simply shift to another Alt coin or hard fork to another new coin.

It will cost them an awful amount of money to sustain an attack like this, so I cannot see that this will continue for more than one day.  

[tranthidung]

Okay coming back here with the recent China Ban Bitcoin again FUD from China. Is this a good thing now for Bitcoin Hash rate becoming decentralized now?

It is too soon to say the miners will actually migrate from China and the mining crack down is real. I see geographical decentralization for Bitcoin mining is good

China has cheap electricity so which countries the chinese miners will move to that also has cheap electricity so the chinese miners can continue mining btc if China really goes ahead with this FUD?

If mining farms migrate to other nations and can not find cheap energy resources as same as in China, the mining cost for Bitcoin will rise. It in the long term, will contribute to higher price of Bitcoin.

Net-effects of them, assumes that FUD is real, will be good in long term but on my view it is not the case, it is FUD.

Despite of all FUD from China, hashrate increases and difficulty adjustments in history are mostly positive (see the chart of mine).

• The history of Bitcoin difficulty adjustment (in percent)

[very_452001]

Okay coming back here with the recent China Ban Bitcoin again FUD from China. Is this a good thing now for Bitcoin Hash rate becoming decentralized now?

It is too soon to say the miners will actually migrate from China and the mining crack down is real. I see geographical decentralization for Bitcoin mining is good

China has cheap electricity so which countries the chinese miners will move to that also has cheap electricity so the chinese miners can continue mining btc if China really goes ahead with this FUD?

If mining farms migrate to other nations and can not find cheap energy resources as same as in China, the mining cost for Bitcoin will rise. It in the long term, will contribute to higher price of Bitcoin.

Net-effects of them, assumes that FUD is real, will be good in long term but on my view it is not the case, it is FUD.

Despite of all FUD from China, hashrate increases and difficulty adjustments in history are mostly positive (see the chart of mine).

• The history of Bitcoin difficulty adjustment (in percent)

But if electricity isnt cheap in other countries where the Chinese miners migrate to then this makes mining unprofitable right so chinese miners will ditch bitcoin mining right? If chinese miners ditch btc mining then wont this affect the security of the btc network?

Which countries allow Chinese nationality citizens to migrate there without a visa?

OP, You are obsessed with China ..... and it is not a issue at all.

Yes, ASIC chips that are used for mining are manufactured in China, but a lot of those chips are exported to other countries. There are massive mining farms in Iceland and other countries too, so all mining are not located in China.

The Chinese government can seize all the mining equipment in China and it will not have an drastic impact on the security of Bitcoin. (Doing a 51% attack on Bitcoin is almost impossible now, because it requires a huge amount of hashing power ...and even if they succeed.. people will shift to other Pools to protect Bitcoin.)

After their first double spend, developers will make some changes (possibly a hard fork) to spoil their attack (That was something Gavin Andreson said, when he was still lead developer of Bitcoin) ... or people will simply shift to another Alt coin or hard fork to another new coin.

It will cost them an awful amount of money to sustain an attack like this, so I cannot see that this will continue for more than one day. 

How much does a Quantum Computer costs and how much energy a Quantum computer takes in relation to Bitcoin mining?

When you say it will cost them a awful amount of money to sustain an attack then how much approximately in $millions will it take to do such an attack on Btc?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[nightxglow]

Even if china has the majority of mining, i don't think it is possible for china to takeover bitcoin. In fact, it seems that china has no interest in bitcoin, since they are always trying way to ban it and make it illegal, and never show any support to bitcoin. If China really think bitcoin is beneficial, then there is no way they would let the chance pass. They will surely try to grab the opportunity and maximize the profit. Chinese government too, I believe doesn't have any bitcoin in their reserve. They can't really take over bitcoin, but I guess they can interfere in some ways possible.

[KEN L]

Most btc mining is done in China because electricity is cheap there and all mining hardware originates from there also right?

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

Has the chinese government or chinese central bank added bitcoins to their treasury reserves apart from the tons of gold they have been buying recently?

If the chinese govenment/central bank has bitcoins in its treasury then there is no incentive for them to raid and take control of the mining pools in china otherwise they be shooting themselves in the foot right because they be crashing the price value of their btc treasury reserves correct?

Do you think electricity will get more expensive in China and by when? Higher electricity costs should encourage mining out of China to other countries so the mining becomes more decentralized.

Finally if the Chinese government/central bank dont have bitcoins in their treasuries and release their digital chinese currency CBDC then from there what guarantees can be made to long term btc investors that the chinese regime wont raid btc mining pools in China or torturing/threatening mining pool owners into handing over the hashrate control to them or force mining pool owners to get together together into 1 big mining pool company owned by the chinese authorities?

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Now  China Govenment take more policy to forbide Bitcoin mining.
More mining pool will be closed.what we worried will be truth.

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[dkbit98]

But if electricity isnt cheap in other countries where the Chinese miners migrate to then this makes mining unprofitable right so chinese miners will ditch bitcoin mining right? If chinese miners ditch btc mining then wont this affect the security of the btc network?

Many countries have cheaper electricity than in China and I don't know why everyone thinks that everything from China is cheaper than in rest of the world without doing any actual research.

It's so funny to think that China can take over Bitcoin network despite the fact that they are banning Bitcoin every year, and same thing could happen in United States or in any other country in the world.

There is however a issue with microchip manufacturing needed from miners that are coming mostly from China but they could also be created in US, India, Japan, Korea or other asian countries if needed.

[very_452001]

China is a clever country not dumb. So I don't believe they will shoot themselves in the foot by erasing all association with bitcoin from their country.

I believe China govt. or the Chinese central bank has 100,000s of bitcoins in their treasury reserves secretly stashed away. They realised Elon Musk energy FUD tweet can affect bitcoin prices so they don't like that so they playing ball by kicking out all these so called dirty killing the planet btc chinese miners forcing them to go other countries to use renewable energy then when btc reaches 50% renewable energy like what Elon Musk has said then China will unban bitcoin again and invite btc miners back to their country later on this year I guess. Think about it this is good for Bitcoin as they are putting on a show trying to save bitcoin by showing that they kicking out the dirty killing the planet miners making the country look green so China can participate in green trade deals with other countries in the G7 summit then when bitcoin becomes green with 50% renewable energy like Elon mentioned above then everything will be back to normal with bitcoin.

The Chinese Yuan CBDC can run parallel with bitcoin as Bitcoin is not designed to be a currency but as a store of wealth asset so the Chinese govt. know bitcoin is not a threat to their CBDC.

Add to that Elon is a clever dude also. He wants bitcoin to succeed but he knows that their will be energy FUD against it in the future hindering btc price progress and Elon also knows China control much of the BTC hashrate that can also affect btc in the future as he tweeted on these 2 issues a month or 2 ago. Elon thinks bitcoin is not truly decentralized cause China controls most of the hastrate so his clever tweets got the Chinese government in action to make bitcoin proper decentralized and make bitcoin look green.

Think about it if Elon didnt tweet this energy FUD then someone else would bring up this FUD later in the future and that can be the US government or Biden which is much worse so its best to deal with this energy and decentralization FUD out of the way 1st so Bitcoin can truly flourish.

I dont believe all this FUD's are random events by chance, just look at the coordinated timing of all of this so no way these FUD's are coincidences

[ivankoh]

China is a clever country not dumb. So I don't believe they will shoot themselves in the foot by erasing all association with bitcoin from their country.

For many years now when there is bitcoin, how does it mean that China has become stronger economically??? How longing and strong do they become? They think that they will continue to bully the world's finance and economy in 2021 like the conspiracy they made like on the occasion of the 2018 Lunar New Year, then they have drawn their own weaknesses and this will be a mistake. And so I think China will realize it soon when bitcoin goes to over $100k.
Although, it doesn't seem to have any links. But it has many traces that I believe it is.

[very_452001]

China is a clever country not dumb. So I don't believe they will shoot themselves in the foot by erasing all association with bitcoin from their country.

For many years now when there is bitcoin, how does it mean that China has become stronger economically??? How longing and strong do they become? They think that they will continue to bully the world's finance and economy in 2021 like the conspiracy they made like on the occasion of the 2018 Lunar New Year, then they have drawn their own weaknesses and this will be a mistake. And so I think China will realize it soon when bitcoin goes to over $100k.
Although, it doesn't seem to have any links. But it has many traces that I believe it is.

The true test Benchmark of Bitcoin is El Salvador.

El Salvador is a poor country with their currency experiencing hyper inflation so they had to rely on the $US dollar meaning the country has given up its sovereignty and hope to the US who now owns El Salvador. Most people in El Salvador don't have a bank account.

Bitcoin claims that it set frees poor nations in shackles from their richer country masters.

So in 5-10 years after recently El Salvador passed a law making Bitcoin legal tender, then shall we see El Salvador becoming wealthy and looking like Switzerland within the next decade because Bitcoin has freed them from financial dependency to Financial independency. Only time will tell yeah?

If Bitcoin passes this test that we have to wait a decade to see results then other poor countries will go into Bitcoin and embrace it.

China is already a wealthy country and a clever country also so they must have bitcoins in their treasury reserves otherwise are they just relying on the tons of gold they have as insurance against the next financial global disaster?

[oHnK]

China is a clever country not dumb. So I don't believe they will shoot themselves in the foot by erasing all association with bitcoin from their country.

For many years now when there is bitcoin, how does it mean that China has become stronger economically??? How longing and strong do they become? They think that they will continue to bully the world's finance and economy in 2021 like the conspiracy they made like on the occasion of the 2018 Lunar New Year, then they have drawn their own weaknesses and this will be a mistake. And so I think China will realize it soon when bitcoin goes to over $100k.
Although, it doesn't seem to have any links. But it has many traces that I believe it is.

The true test Benchmark of Bitcoin is El Salvador.

El Salvador is a poor country with their currency experiencing hyper inflation so they had to rely on the $US dollar meaning the country has given up its sovereignty and hope to the US who now owns El Salvador. Most people in El Salvador don't have a bank account.

Bitcoin claims that it set frees poor nations in shackles from their richer country masters.

So in 5-10 years after recently El Salvador passed a law making Bitcoin legal tender, then shall we see El Salvador becoming wealthy and looking like Switzerland within the next decade because Bitcoin has freed them from financial dependency to Financial independency. Only time will tell yeah?

If Bitcoin passes this test that we have to wait a decade to see results then other poor countries will go into Bitcoin and embrace it.

China is already a wealthy country and a clever country also so they must have bitcoins in their treasury reserves otherwise are they just relying on the tons of gold they have as insurance against the next financial global disaster?

Even though it is considered a benchmark for countries that use BTC, there will definitely be many evaluations, especially since El Salvador is a small country so it will be much easier to manage it than in a large country.  Seeing the use of energy sources that are less environmentally friendly creates new issues if in large-scale countries it is legalized.  I see this as a good policy but not very appealing to the whales.

[Kez1817]

How can China takeover Bitcoin network? First China is not the owner or creator of bitcoin. Although the large numbers of miners came from China but now it was drastically reducing. Also there is a news that China are banning bitcoin. I can't imagine how can China think about bitcoin network to be their own. Not only do they claim the territory of other countries as well as the bitcoin network they also want to claim.

[Ozero]

How can China takeover Bitcoin network? First China is not the owner or creator of bitcoin. Although the large numbers of miners came from China but now it was drastically reducing. Also there is a news that China are banning bitcoin. I can't imagine how can China think about bitcoin network to be their own. Not only do they claim the territory of other countries as well as the bitcoin network they also want to claim.

Even if it were possible, the Chinese government would not do it. They always follow their own path of development, copying only perfect technologies and certain groups of goods from others.
We have been observing for a long time that the Chinese government is very interested in blockchain technology, but there is no strong interest in cryptocurrency there. They even make their digitized yuan not on blockchain technology, most likely to distance themselves from cryptocurrency.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

How can China takeover Bitcoin network? First China is not the owner or creator of bitcoin. Although the large numbers of miners came from China but now it was drastically reducing. Also there is a news that China are banning bitcoin. I can't imagine how can China think about bitcoin network to be their own. Not only do they claim the territory of other countries as well as the bitcoin network they also want to claim.

Probably what OP meant was the mining, which they really can do if they want to but given that they have finally banned bitcoin already means that they have already banned bitcoin mining in their country, I don't think that there's a possibility of takeover in the near future.

[n0ne]

How can China takeover Bitcoin network? First China is not the owner or creator of bitcoin. Although the large numbers of miners came from China but now it was drastically reducing. Also there is a news that China are banning bitcoin. I can't imagine how can China think about bitcoin network to be their own. Not only do they claim the territory of other countries as well as the bitcoin network they also want to claim.

Even if it were possible, the Chinese government would not do it. They always follow their own path of development, copying only perfect technologies and certain groups of goods from others.
We have been observing for a long time that the Chinese government is very interested in blockchain technology, but there is no strong interest in cryptocurrency there. They even make their digitized yuan not on blockchain technology, most likely to distance themselves from cryptocurrency.

China always want everything to be unique and separately designed for them same as the separate search engine they've got. Once it was China to hold the power of network with maximum hash being generated from China. Even now scenario is the same, but the government wants them to have their own cryptocurrency and own blockchain. So, we can't expect China takeover bitcoin network.

In the past if one of the miner leaves the market there will be difference in the process. Now people are ready to take the space.

[dificanovi]

Most btc mining is done in China because electricity is cheap there and all mining hardware originates from there also right?

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

even though china is the biggest miner but they will not be able to control all bitcoin price movements in the crypto market. There are still many other miners and investors from countries other than China will fight if China regulates the price of bitcoin, bitcoin holders will not benefit if buyers refuse to buy it. The traders also have to be careful of everything they do because if the traders make a fatal mistake with bitcoin then the buyers will choose another coin and leave bitcoin.

[Kittygalore]

I don't think China will be able to take over the bitcoin network, because we know the Chinese government really hates bitcoin, but I admit that China dominates in bitcoin mining, but if the problem is they want to take over the bitcoin network, I don't think it will be possible, even though they do. any way, I'm sure they will not be able to do it all..

The hatred for bitcoin is all the much more reason to takeover the network of bitcoin, they could've done that but luckily they thought that dominating the network is futile effort since the market can recover but and they will probably spend a lot of resources just to do that. Also they can't dominate anymore if most mines in their country are gone.

[DarkDays]

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

I believe a bulk of the mining hashrate is as a result of mining pools; miners from all over the world concentrate their computing power to a single server to increase the chances of them getting the next block collectively. This does not mean the hashrate is controlled by China, miners can easily switch to pools from other nations.

Indeed, there is no monopoly from China on the hashrate of BTC. Since the ban, the bulk of mining to maintain the network coming out of China is somewhat something of the past, as miners have already started to relocate.

As for China manipulating BTC's consensus, well, that's not so easily achieved because despite the miners having been in China it doesn't mean miners knew exactly where each were located to forum such an organised attack. Plus, the penalties if found out are harsh and it would destroy any miner's equipment and trust for future mining participation, a risk not many are prepared to take.

[btc78]

I don't think China will be able to take over the bitcoin network, because we know the Chinese government really hates bitcoin, but I admit that China dominates in bitcoin mining, but if the problem is they want to take over the bitcoin network, I don't think it will be possible, even though they do. any way, I'm sure they will not be able to do it all..

it is not that they will be able the thing is they will not because instead of bitcoin they will certainly push their own coin instead.
we knew that they dont like bitcoin from the start so why need to take over this coin

They have HPB coin. Its much faster.

much faster than bitcoin because? there are no much users to congest the network 

[velosepur]

With China everything is possible but regarding this theme my opinion is no, cant. China have many miners but that is not enough for control of btc network sure.

[germsite]

China controls over 50% of the btc hashrate meaning they can do a 51% attack on the bitcoin network or control which btc transactions are valid according to their liking correct?

I believe a bulk of the mining hashrate is as a result of mining pools; miners from all over the world concentrate their computing power to a single server to increase the chances of them getting the next block collectively. This does not mean the hashrate is controlled by China, miners can easily switch to pools from other nations.

Indeed, there is no monopoly from China on the hashrate of BTC. Since the ban, the bulk of mining to maintain the network coming out of China is somewhat something of the past, as miners have already started to relocate.

As for China manipulating BTC's consensus, well, that's not so easily achieved because despite the miners having been in China it doesn't mean miners knew exactly where each were located to forum such an organised attack. Plus, the penalties if found out are harsh and it would destroy any miner's equipment and trust for future mining participation, a risk not many are prepared to take.

I think the owners of the largest pools have been known pretty much forever and if they wanted they could coordinate an attack regardless of their location anyway. As for China dominating the network on purpose, I guess they would only do it with the intent to harm the network and thereby perhaps destroy it. As that is almost practically impossible I guess, and as China isn't interested in a strong network that might give their own citizens possibilities to hide capital and get it out of China without anyone noticing, they are just trying to support the network as least as possible and to lock up their citizens within their own borders by cracking down on access to foreign capital markets and technologies like Bitcoin.

[geegaw]

I don't think China will be able to take over the bitcoin network, because we know the Chinese government really hates bitcoin, but I admit that China dominates in bitcoin mining, but if the problem is they want to take over the bitcoin network, I don't think it will be possible, even though they do. any way, I'm sure they will not be able to do it all..

China is an old fox in scams and changes between black and white very quickly, a stormy day will allow them to confide in their interest in bitcoin, even disgust for the network but as long as the situation of the world and surrounding countries show special behavior with bitcoin, they become a more friendly and sociable face. The takeover is probably also one of the few strategies they are working on, even readying parts to manage, it's just that they're not the only wolves in this world, countries all have an insularity about the bitcoin network as well as approaching takeovers.

[germsite]

I don't think China will be able to take over the bitcoin network, because we know the Chinese government really hates bitcoin, but I admit that China dominates in bitcoin mining, but if the problem is they want to take over the bitcoin network, I don't think it will be possible, even though they do. any way, I'm sure they will not be able to do it all..

China is an old fox in scams and changes between black and white very quickly, a stormy day will allow them to confide in their interest in bitcoin, even disgust for the network but as long as the situation of the world and surrounding countries show special behavior with bitcoin, they become a more friendly and sociable face. The takeover is probably also one of the few strategies they are working on, even readying parts to manage, it's just that they're not the only wolves in this world, countries all have an insularity about the bitcoin network as well as approaching takeovers.

Nobody knows whether they have taken it over already or not. From my point of view the easiest takeover could already have happened years ago when Bitcoin was so cheap that a country like China would laugh about the money they needed to purchase a couple of million Bitcoins. Why is it a takeover and the most effective one probably? If the world gets into problems with a hostile China and it is discovered that China owns 25% of the units of the most powerful value network in the world, that would be the end for it I think. Then again China would probably keep it a secret and reign over the world with richness.

[BOAEDAN]

we can't deny it, China is a country that does everything they can to get what they want, China can also rule the world, under their control, in fact almost all countries use Chinese products, but if the problem is China wants to take over bitcoin network, I thought they would never be able to, that's why they banned bitcoin mining in their country..

[777Jolami]

I think, China can take over the bitcoin network, it is possible but I personally do not support that.  Although China has one of the largest power generation facilities in the world, an area equal to the width, ... hoards large mining facilities, but the problem is not only that.  China is so politically ambitious, they can pull bitcoin into that spiral.  Overall, China has the infrastructure and technology to take over the bitcoin network.
Bitcoin getting out of China is great.

[7788bitcoin]

~
China is a clever country not dumb. So I don't believe they will shoot themselves in the foot by erasing all association with bitcoin from their country.

I believe China govt. or the Chinese central bank has 100,000s of bitcoins in their treasury reserves secretly stashed away. They realised Elon Musk energy FUD tweet can affect bitcoin prices so they don't like that so they playing ball by kicking out all these so called dirty killing the planet btc chinese miners forcing them to go other countries to use renewable energy then when btc reaches 50% renewable energy like what Elon Musk has said then China will unban bitcoin again and invite btc miners back to their country later on this year I guess.

I liked the way you created an entire conspiracy with the Chinese government at the forefront  . We can speculate that the Chinese government stacked away 100,000 of Bitcoin but what is the point in doing so when they are restricting users for years and there will be an uprising if there is something like this and since you concluded that they are smart, they will not do anything that could create a revolution against the government  .

The points you said about Elon, i do accept them because he is smart enough to manipulate the market and he is doing that for years without any repercussions.

[defi-Dany]

Why is China cracking down on Bitcoin mining and trading?
First consider from a regulatory perspective:

In order to protect the interests of investors: due to the limited scale of bitcoins entering the trading market, it creates the illusion that investors can live in rare goods. Many investors have the mentality of getting rich overnight and magnify the trading leverage to five times or more. At this time, investors’ trading risks are huge. The regulators believe that it seriously infringes on the people’s property security and disrupts the normal economic and financial order. In order to prevent individual winds from passing to the social field, the regulators are prepared to attack.

From a legal point of view:

Prevent international hot money from using Bitcoin to enter and exit illegally: There are indeed some regulatory gaps in the digital currency transaction itself. The most obvious is that it can facilitate the transfer of property abroad.
In recent years, cross-border exchange of virtual currency has been used to convert criminal proceeds and proceeds into overseas legal currency or into property. This is a new means of money laundering crime, disrupting the normal economic and financial order.

It can be seen from the above that the Chinese government does not want to gain control. Moreover, it is impossible to get it.

If Bitcoin is so easily controlled, then it will not survive until now.
De-Chinese is a good thing.

[Kiley33]

China's mining ban has caused many people to withdraw from the Chinese market.
They are just learning blockchain technology. Because they are not open-minded, they feel that cryptocurrency is counterfeit, and China's information on the cryptocurrency market is negative. Therefore, many Chinese people are afraid of investing in cryptocurrencies.

[velosepur]

China's mining ban has caused many people to withdraw from the Chinese market.
They are just learning blockchain technology. Because they are not open-minded, they feel that cryptocurrency is counterfeit, and China's information on the cryptocurrency market is negative. Therefore, many Chinese people are afraid of investing in cryptocurrencies.

Sure that is main reason why China citizens dont have option to plan long term. Investing become very dangerous, unpredictable. Impact is negative.

[Welsh]

I liked the way you created an entire conspiracy with the Chinese government at the forefront  . We can speculate that the Chinese government stacked away 100,000 of Bitcoin but what is the point in doing so when they are restricting users for years and there will be an uprising if there is something like this and since you concluded that they are smart, they will not do anything that could create a revolution against the government  .

The points you said about Elon, i do accept them because he is smart enough to manipulate the market and he is doing that for years without any repercussions.

Theoretically, a very rich entity could potentially try to centralise Bitcoin via purchasing a large amount of it, and holding it. However, it would probably be far more beneficial for them to buy out existing exchanges, and limit the amount of people that can buy Bitcoin in the first place. Although, a slightly unrelated note, China aren't that cautious against safeguarding against the possibility of a revolution, they censor their citizens already, and limited them in various ways. Also, do remember that China throughout history going all the way back to the Ming/Han days have always imploded due to internal stability rather than outside factors.

[worldofcoins]

If they could then why would they show it that they can, If they could then they will wait for as many people to use Bitcoin and during a transaction or transactions in their favor then drop that transaction even after it has 3+ confirmations but that's a bizzare thing to happen because it will change many more transactions.

[DarkIT]

China's mining ban has caused many people to withdraw from the Chinese market.
They are just learning blockchain technology. Because they are not open-minded, they feel that cryptocurrency is counterfeit, and China's information on the cryptocurrency market is negative. Therefore, many Chinese people are afraid of investing in cryptocurrencies.

Sure that is main reason why China citizens dont have option to plan long term. Investing become very dangerous, unpredictable. Impact is negative.

Actually,the chinese people was not worry about the investment.Most of the investment was made in bitcoin and mining from china.China was most populated country,it's big market to cryptocurrency.Most of mining was taken place from the china,people from their earning huge money from the mining.But some people inverse without government knowledge.

[Macadonian]

Bitcoin is decentralized and no country can take over Bitcoin. That is what keeps Bitcoin increasing in value that it cannot be controlled by greedy governments and allows poor people to find wealth if they invest in it.  

If they could then why would they show it that they can, If they could then they will wait for as many people to use Bitcoin and during a transaction or transactions in their favor then drop that transaction even after it has 3+ confirmations but that's a bizzare thing to happen because it will change many more transactions.

Why allow Bitcoin to gain momentum before they try to destroy it? It would be better if they tried to destroy it before people started using it.