Electrum lost wallet

[alejandroaa]

Hi,

last Christmas I found out that a friend of my mother gave to her some BTC in 2013-2014.
She doesn't speak to him anymore unfortunately, but she found a seed phrase, a login (of 5 letters) and a password.

She doesn't know anything about it, she's completely out of anything related to technology...

After some research, I think that the 12-word seed phrase looks like an Electrum old seed phrase.
When I try to recover it through Electrum, it creates a new wallet through that old seed phrase but it appears completely empty.

And at any time it requests me that login or password.

Do you think there is a way I'm doing something wrong? Should I check somewhere else to see if it works?

Unfortunately, Blockchain.info doesn't recognize the seed phrase, so I guess it's Electrum?
If you have any other idea or suggestion it would be amazing

Thanks

A

[RickDeckard]

Hello Alejandro, welcome to the forum.

First of all, ignore PM's that you may receive asking you for any kind of information regarding your seed words. As you can probably guess the main goal of those requests is to clear your wallet of any kind of BTC.
This looks to me a case of bad derivation paths chosen / type of wallet. I also found it weird that you have a login word. Could it be a 13th word that was used as an "encryption password" ? I heard that this was also common back in the days.

As for help, I would try these steps :

• Create a new wallet -> Standard Wallet -> I already have a seed -> Just input your 12 word seed
• Now, instead of clicking "NEXT" click on Options and select bip39 seed. I the message Checksum OK appears then it's a good sign - You've entered the correct seed phrase. If not, then it's not the right one. You'll only be able to proceed to the next step if you've got a positive checksum.
• In the page that you encounter next just click on "Detect Existing Account".
  
  

In theory these steps should work to solve your issue. Could you try them and then provide feedback?

[bitmover]

Hi,

last Christmas I found out that a friend of my mother gave to her some BTC in 2013-2014.
She doesn't speak to him anymore unfortunately, but she found a seed phrase, a login (of 5 letters) and a password.

...

If you have any other idea or suggestion it would be amazing

Thanks

A

Hello A,

I have some suggestions:

First of all, do not answer to any PM (private message). Keep all your discussions public, so nobody can scam you and steal your money.

Second. Download electrum wallet from electrum.org. Then you have two options to create a wallet with a seed phrase:

You have to click create a new wallet, standard wallet > I already have a seed.


Then you have to create two wallets: The first option will be with BIP39 seed checked and the second one unchecked.



Try these. if you see your funds there after inserting your seed (with bip39 checked and unchecked)

[o_e_l_e_o]

When I try to recover it through Electrum, it creates a new wallet through that old seed phrase but it appears completely empty.

Is there a history of any transactions on any of the addresses? It could be the person who gave your mother the wallet also kept a copy for himself, and after not seeing the funds move for several years, decided to take them back.

And at any time it requests me that login or password.

The password could well be an additional passphrase for the wallet. Try checking the box titled "Extend this seed with custom words" and entering the password. Do this both with and without the "BIP39 seed" box checked, and follow RickDeckard's instructions to "Detect Existing Accounts".

[Danydee]

 - 5 letters login and a password,
   Maybe could these the credentials for an exchange, (MtGox) for example ! ?? 

[alejandroaa]

Hello!

Thanks to all for these replies.
I'll try to answer to all your suggestions to see if you have any other idea, still no success on my side:
-

• Create a new wallet -> Standard Wallet -> I already have a seed -> Just input your 12 word seed
• Now, instead of clicking "NEXT" click on Options and select bip39 seed. I the message Checksum OK appears then it's a good sign - You've entered the correct seed phrase. If not, then it's not the right one. You'll only be able to proceed to the next step if you've got a positive checksum.

-> When typing the Seed it says just "OLD" and when selecting bip39 seed it says "UNKNOWN WORDLIST" but I can still go to the next step. Then I go click "Detecting Existing Accounts" but it says "No existing accounts found"....

I can still click NEXT and create a wallet with that old Word Seed but the wallet is completely empty.

Then you have to create two wallets: The first option will be with BIP39 seed checked and the second one unchecked.

https://miro.medium.com/max/602/1*7xjjmMzFEhd7MaCufjv0vg.jpeg

Try these. if you see your funds there after inserting your seed (with bip39 checked and unchecked)

-> Thank you! I tried both options, I can create both wallets, but they are unfortunately empty

When I try to recover it through Electrum, it creates a new wallet through that old seed phrase but it appears completely empty.

Is there a history of any transactions on any of the addresses? It could be the person who gave your mother the wallet also kept a copy for himself, and after not seeing the funds move for several years, decided to take them back.

And at any time it requests me that login or password.

The password could well be an additional passphrase for the wallet. Try checking the box titled "Extend this seed with custom words" and entering the password. Do this both with and without the "BIP39 seed" box checked, and follow RickDeckard's instructions to "Detect Existing Accounts".

-> Thank you! I tried doing this, but it only works when I check the box "BIP39 Seed" + "Extend this seed with custom words". Then when it says "Seed extension" I type the password I had but it doesn't seem to work either...

I discovered that my mother opened this wallet in 2013. This friend opened a wallet for her and she says he put some BTC inside, and she put down all the seed, that's why I find very weird he didn't even put a small bit of old BTC once you have the wallet created... Regarding the fact that this friend took back the BTC, I'm not sure because I don't see anything in the history (but well I don't even have access to the wallet somehow). Maybe they didn't put really funds in there, but why create just a wallet if you don't put funds? Why would she not this annoying seed if there was any value on it? 

If you have any other idea I can try let me know, I will try
Thank you in advance!

A
[/list]

[RickDeckard]

-

• Create a new wallet -> Standard Wallet -> I already have a seed -> Just input your 12 word seed
• Now, instead of clicking "NEXT" click on Options and select bip39 seed. I the message Checksum OK appears then it's a good sign - You've entered the correct seed phrase. If not, then it's not the right one. You'll only be able to proceed to the next step if you've got a positive checksum.

-> When typing the Seed it says just "OLD" and when selecting bip39 seed it says "UNKNOWN WORDLIST" but I can still go to the next step. Then I go click "Detecting Existing Accounts" but it says "No existing accounts found"....

It is normal that you don't find results in the "Detecting Existing Accounts" due to the fact that you fail the first step. Could you see if all your words are in the following list?

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt (Try looking up all the words, including the one you think it's a "Login" one)

Those two errors are fairly odd either the "old" one and the "unknown wordlist"... Could  it be perhaps that what you have is login information to blockchain.com? Have you tried inputting your seed into their legacy recovery service? -> https://login.blockchain.com/wallet/forgot-password

-> Thank you! I tried doing this, but it only works when I check the box "BIP39 Seed" + "Extend this seed with custom words". Then when it says "Seed extension" I type the password I had but it doesn't seem to work either...

What about writing the 12 words as seed phrase then add that last one (the one you say its a login ) as the sole word in "Extend this seed with custom words" ?

I discovered that my mother opened this wallet in 2013. This friend opened a wallet for her and she says he put some BTC inside, and she put down all the seed, that's why I find very weird he didn't even put a small bit of old BTC once you have the wallet created... Regarding the fact that this friend took back the BTC, I'm not sure because I don't see anything in the history (but well I don't even have access to the wallet somehow). Maybe they didn't put really funds in there, but why create just a wallet if you don't put funds? Why would she not this annoying seed if there was any value on it?  

You can also try to check each address in the wallet that you're able to "restore" (even though that it shows you have no balance). Just go to the list of addresses associated with that wallet and start putting them in Blockchair for example to see if your mom's friend simply took the BTC after they stopped talking.

[ranochigo]

It is normal that you don't find results in the "Detecting Existing Accounts" due to the fact that you fail the first step. Could you see if all your words are in the following list?

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt (Try looking up all the words, including the one you think it's a "Login" one)

Those two errors are fairly odd either the "old" one and the "unknown wordlist"... Could  it be perhaps that what you have is login information to blockchain.com? Have you tried inputting your seed into their legacy recovery service? -> https://login.blockchain.com/wallet/forgot-password

It's not a BIP39 seed. It's a seed generated with Electrum's older seed format.

Electrum has a specific formatting byte at the start of the seed which identifies its version. If the wallet doesn't contain anything, then I'm afraid it's probably empty. I'm not aware of any non BIP39 seed phrase with 12 word seed. Blockchain uses 16 words AFAIK.

[RickDeckard]

It is normal that you don't find results in the "Detecting Existing Accounts" due to the fact that you fail the first step. Could you see if all your words are in the following list?

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt (Try looking up all the words, including the one you think it's a "Login" one)

Those two errors are fairly odd either the "old" one and the "unknown wordlist"... Could  it be perhaps that what you have is login information to blockchain.com? Have you tried inputting your seed into their legacy recovery service? -> https://login.blockchain.com/wallet/forgot-password

It's not a BIP39 seed. It's a seed generated with Electrum's older seed format.

Electrum has a specific formatting byte at the start of the seed which identifies its version. If the wallet doesn't contain anything, then I'm afraid it's probably empty. I'm not aware of any non BIP39 seed phrase with 12 word seed. Blockchain uses 16 words AFAIK.

Thank you for your insight @ranochigo.
OP if you want to really be sure what might have happened I suggest you lookup each address to see if any of those had BTC in the past (but has been moved by your friend's mom, just like o_e_l_e_o said)

[Danydee]

It's not a BIP39 seed. It's a seed generated with Electrum's older seed format.

 That is not sure;

After some research, I think that the 12-word seed phrase looks like an Electrum old seed phrase.

[ranochigo]

That is not sure;

When typing the Seed it says just "OLD" and when selecting bip39 seed it says "UNKNOWN WORDLIST" but I can still go to the next step. Then I go click "Detecting Existing Accounts" but it says "No existing accounts found"....

When typing the seed phrase into the restoration box, Electrum will indicate the seed type as old, which is basically the seed system used in the earlier version of Electrum. Which is what happened with OP.

[Abdussamad]

You'll only be able to proceed to the next step if you've got a positive checksum.[/li]
[li]In the page that you encounter next just click on "Detect Existing Account".

not really. electrum lets you proceed with an invalid bip39 seed.

@OP do you see any transactions on the history tab after restoring as an old seed (not bip39)? if there are no transactions then it looks like the wallet was never used.

Electrum has a specific formatting byte at the start of the seed which identifies its version. If the wallet doesn't contain anything, then I'm afraid it's probably empty. I'm not aware of any non BIP39 seed phrase with 12 word seed. Blockchain uses 16 words AFAIK.

note that old seeds don't have a checksum in them. electrum recognizes them from the words used. the dictionary is different for old seeds compared to new ones.

the dictionary used for old electrum seeds is similar to the dictionary blockchain.info used for its password recovery phrase. unfortunately they took down the legacy wallet recovery page so I don't know how to test this theory. besides the login would be a long uuid rather than 5 letters.

[alejandroaa]

Hi

thanks again for all this support trying to help me!
I found out that the Seed phrase has words that belong to this list called Electrum old-style wordlist: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/1.9.8/lib/mnemonic.py

There is for example a long word like "SOMETIMES" that doesn't appear at the BIP39 seed word list and that appears there.
So I think that we can conclude that it's not a BIP39 seed phrase, but an ELECTRUM OLD STYLE seed.

More information after my research:
The password that my mother noted is like her most typical password, the one that she uses everywhere adding just a few numbers.
I tried putting it at the part: Extend this seed with custom words, but no results.

I tried the Blockchain.com forgot password site. When I put the Seed phrase it unveils the same password that my mother had in her notes!
But what to do next? I don't have the ID or anything else... and when I do SEND MY WALLET ID to her email (the same and only she has been using for the past 10 years), she doesn't receive anything. As if she didn't have an account there, so I get stucked there again....

@OP do you see any transactions on the history tab after restoring as an old seed (not bip39)? if there are no transactions then it looks like the wallet was never used.

The history is completely empty yes... Was that hard to transfer some BTC at the time? Why did they open a wallet, write down a long seed phrase, and doing all that stuff but not adding even 0,001 BTC to check that it's there..  But in any case I'm not sure that the account is getting well recovered...

What do you think about this with this new information?

Thanks  !!

[Danydee]

More information after my research:
The password that my mother noted is like her most typical password, the one that she uses everywhere adding just a few numbers.
I tried putting it at the part: Extend this seed with custom words, but no results.

Maybe can you try the username/password
here: https://inquiry.mtgox.com/inquiry/index.php
here: https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/login/ ..

I tried the Blockchain.com forgot password site. When I put the Seed phrase it unveils the same password that my mother had in her notes!
But what to do next? I don't have the ID or anything else... and when I do SEND MY WALLET ID to her email (the same and only she has been using for the past 10 years), she doesn't receive anything. As if she didn't have an account there, so I get stucked there again....

How that ?
How/where can they unveils the password ?
What's the recovering seed have to do with the password ?!


There a issue I encountered personally before with blockchain.com ,  that's causing the non-reception of the emails they send,
There response about that is that is the email provider that is rejecting their sent emails ..

Maybe can you try with the support to try getting from them what is about the email address !

[o_e_l_e_o]

I tried the Blockchain.com forgot password site. When I put the Seed phrase it unveils the same password that my mother had in her notes!

In that case, the words you have are not an Electrum seed phrase at all, but rather a blockchain.com password recovery phrase. The password you have is to decrypt a blockchain.com wallet file. You will need this file to be able to access the wallet.

Ask your mother if she ever backed up such a file. It should have the extension ".aes.json". Also ask her to check all her email accounts as she may have received this file by email.

[Danydee]

I tried the Blockchain.com forgot password site. When I put the Seed phrase it unveils the same password that my mother had in her notes!

In that case, the words you have are not an Electrum seed phrase at all, but rather a blockchain.com password recovery phrase. The password you have is to decrypt a blockchain.com wallet file. You will need this file to be able to access the wallet.

   And for the "login/username" ??

Ask your mother if she ever backed up such a file. It should have the extension ".aes.json". Also ask her to check all her email accounts as she may have received this file by email.

  Yes, in this case blockchain.com earlier (.info) operated at least to 2014 automated wallet files backups sent to the email.
 You also usually receive welcome email when creating the wallet.

 So try searching for the emails by "blockchain.info" keyword !



 
 Just may the wallet have be created without linking a email address, it was been possible earlier on blockchain.com (.info)

[alejandroaa]

More information after my research:
The password that my mother noted is like her most typical password, the one that she uses everywhere adding just a few numbers.
I tried putting it at the part: Extend this seed with custom words, but no results.

Maybe can you try the username/password
here: https://inquiry.mtgox.com/inquiry/index.php
here: https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/login/ ..

Unfortunately not working

I tried the Blockchain.com forgot password site. When I put the Seed phrase it unveils the same password that my mother had in her notes!
But what to do next? I don't have the ID or anything else... and when I do SEND MY WALLET ID to her email (the same and only she has been using for the past 10 years), she doesn't receive anything. As if she didn't have an account there, so I get stucked there again....

How that ?
How/where can they unveils the password ?
What's the recovering seed have to do with the password ?!

I went here as suggested by Rick: https://login.blockchain.com/wallet/forgot-password
When you put the seed phrase, it reminds you the password that was linked to your seed phrase account. And it matches with what I got! So first sign we are not in a bad direction, no?
But the login is still missing. And as I think it a too old seed, when I go here: https://login.blockchain.com/#/recover and I try to access funds, it says INVALID PASSPHRASE.

But then I've just found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ff97p/how_do_you_recover_blockchain_wallet_with_mnemonic/

Apparently, it's normal that as it's too old, I only got the old password through the recovery, but not the login... So I'm contacting Blockchain to see if they can help me out... I'll keep you posted!

Thanks!

[RickDeckard]

I went here as suggested by Rick: https://login.blockchain.com/wallet/forgot-password
When you put the seed phrase, it reminds you the password that was linked to your seed phrase account. And it matches with what I got! So first sign we are not in a bad direction, no?
But the login is still missing. And as I think it a too old seed, when I go here: https://login.blockchain.com/#/recover and I try to access funds, it says INVALID PASSPHRASE.

But then I've just found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ff97p/how_do_you_recover_blockchain_wallet_with_mnemonic/

Apparently, it's normal that as it's too old, I only got the old password through the recovery, but not the login... So I'm contacting Blockchain to see if they can help me out... I'll keep you posted!

Glad to know that you're at least reaching somewhere (or at least we already cut the doubt regarding being a Electrum seed). Have you already checked all your mom's emails that she could've used when registering on blockchain? You can search in your gmail account (assuming it was a gmail address) for the file extension mentioned by o_e_l_e_o by using:

Code:

filename:wallet.aes.json

[nc50lc]

I went here as suggested by Rick: https://login.blockchain.com/wallet/forgot-password
When you put the seed phrase, it reminds you the password that was linked to your seed phrase account. And it matches with what I got! So first sign we are not in a bad direction, no?
But the login is still missing. -snip-

That explains a lot, it means that your backup phrase is indeed from blockchain.info because it successfully return with an account and password.

But what do you mean by "login still missing"?
Did the recovery page displayed only the "5-letters" and password not the "WalletID" (long string of characters)?
Perhaps the '5-letters' is an "alias" used in the old versions. In that case, you need to contact their support to get the corresponding WalletID for that alias to be able to login.
They might ask you for some verifications (not KYC, but dates/email addresses, etc.) for them to respond with the walletID.

If you have the walletID, the reason that the login credentials aren't working may be because you've changed your password before and your backup was outdated,
the backup phrase for legacy blockchain accounts should be replaced when changing account password since it's your login's backup.

[alejandroaa]

That explains a lot, it means that your backup phrase is indeed from blockchain.info because it successfully return with an account and password.

But what do you mean by "login still missing"?
Did the recovery page displayed only the "5-letters" and password not the "WalletID" (long string of characters)?
Perhaps it's an "alias" used in the old versions. In that case, you need to contact their support to get the corresponding WalletID for that alias to be able to login.
They might ask you for some verifications (not KYC, but dates/email addresses, etc.) for them to respond with the walletID.

If you have the walletID, the reason that the login credentials aren't working may be because you've changed your password before and your backup was outdated,
the backup phrase for legacy blockchain accounts should be replaced when changing account password since it's your login's backup.

I wanted to say that typing the seed phrase it showed the password (the one I had).
But it didn't show me the Wallet ID or any other information of the account, so I guess the only help I can get to follow on is from their support desk. I sent them an e-mail let's see what they say...

Have you already checked all your mom's emails that she could've used when registering on blockchain? You can search in your gmail account (assuming it was a gmail address) for the file extension mentioned by o_e_l_e_o by using:

Code:

filename:wallet.aes.json

Nothing found....