Has Bitcoin Failed as Money?

[tyz]

As a long-time Bitcoin hodler, I welcome the current development of Bitcoin and find the increasing acceptance great. But the question arises as to whether Bitcoin can still be considered as money for everyday transactions or whether the idea is outdated and Bitcoin is more of a store of value option like gold than a means of payment.

Why? I try to pay with Bitcoin wherever possible. Fortunately, more and more merchants and services are accepting Bitcoin. Whether directly or through third-party providers. Here are my experiences over the past few weeks.

I wanted to take out a subscription to my favorite streamer. $4.99 payable with Bitcoin. Timely Confirmation Fees, $ 6.71. 134% of the purchase price. Even with an annual subscription, the fees would still be around 20-23%.

Paying my web hosting costs of around $30, Bitcon fees also around $5, which would be 16-17% fees.

The fees may be acceptable for buying a Tesla for $ 40-50k, but certainly not for daily payments.

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[Yogee]

I think you already have your answer from your experiences.

It is impractical to use BTC for small and immediate payments. You can still use it as a currency for larger transaction where $5 transaction fees can be considered as minimal. Fees over the weekend are still cheaper so it can also be used for advanced payments ^{[your payment is due next Tuesday? send on Saturday]} or in situations where the merchant is willing to accept late confirmations.

[blue Snow]

Ethereum price is higher than that of gold now.
Ethereum has a large market cap than gold.
Ethereum is overtaking gold in all ways

why you always compare it to another investment. in the past you were said Bitcoin had more than half of all existing silver market cap and now you compare it ethereum either. you were inconsistent. you don't calculating bitcoin and ethereum before, while you campare eth into gold either, you must see on coinmarketcap, bitcoin on top bruh, so it will more than gold.

[hatshepsut93]

You are a legendary member registered in 2013, so why are you asking the question that was asked hundreds of times already, I'm sure you saw and maybe even participated in some of the scaling debate threads.
High fees isn't exactly new thing, a quick confirmation fee over $1 has been a thing from time to time since 2017.

Onchain fees will only be getting higher in the long run, because blockspace is limited, there's no other way around it, increasing it would compromise decentralization. Wait for Lightning Network, or even start using it right now if you want free transactions.

[podpaymentcoin]

As a long-time Bitcoin hodler, I welcome the current development of Bitcoin and find the increasing acceptance great. But the question arises as to whether Bitcoin can still be considered as money for everyday transactions or whether the idea is outdated and Bitcoin is more of a store of value option like gold than a means of payment.

Why? I try to pay with Bitcoin wherever possible. Fortunately, more and more merchants and services are accepting Bitcoin. Whether directly or through third-party providers. Here are my experiences over the past few weeks.

I wanted to take out a subscription to my favorite streamer. $4.99 payable with Bitcoin. Timely Confirmation Fees, $ 6.71. 134% of the purchase price. Even with an annual subscription, the fees would still be around 20-23%.

Paying my web hosting costs of around $30, Bitcon fees also around $5, which would be 16-17% fees.

The fees may be acceptable for buying a Tesla for $ 40-50k, but certainly not for daily payments.

2009 -14 : eCash
2014-17  : Transition state: eCash --> SoV
2017-21  : SoV
Future?   :  Back to eCash if BTC reaches stable $1m range OR if decentralised scability is truely solved. I think the elephant in the room is that no project has truely solved decentralised scalability that Satoshi r&d back in 2009. When that breakthru happens a shift back to eCash is very probable as microtransactions are part of the original Bitcoin blueprint.

[sheenshane]

Use a Bitcoin wallet that supports SegWit address and also has a feature of Lightning Network, your problem might be solved regarding the fees.

Yesterday, I made a small transaction and that was $60 and the fee is almost $2 with an option of a lower fee, I think that is reasonable enough because I'm in hurry to receive my Bitcoin to my custodial wallet.  If there's someone who tends to use Bitcoin as payment, it might be good if he knows how it works to avoid being frustrated with transaction speed and the fees.

Probably it might be failed as money as of now because Bitcoin enthusiasts who held Bitcoin treated this as a valuable asset, not a daily form of payment, just because of the volatility value that makes the price fluctuate every now and then.

[mk4]

There's a reason why developers are working on layer-2 solutions such as the Lightning Network, and I'm pretty sure you know this already. Yes, they're not totally there yet, but not because it's currently not ready it doesn't mean it won't be ready sometime in the future. Take note that they're developing software for Bitcoin here, a totally unconventional protocol. They're not developing some kind of bootleg PayPal or Cash App.

Also, I mostly agree with Murad Mahmudov's Lindy Effect chart:

https://twitter.com/MustStopMurad/status/1022169639386836992

^take note that this was posted in 2018, so the "We are here" part might be outdated.

[avikz]

As a long-time Bitcoin hodler, I welcome the current development of Bitcoin and find the increasing acceptance great. But the question arises as to whether Bitcoin can still be considered as money for everyday transactions or whether the idea is outdated and Bitcoin is more of a store of value option like gold than a means of payment.

Why? I try to pay with Bitcoin wherever possible. Fortunately, more and more merchants and services are accepting Bitcoin. Whether directly or through third-party providers. Here are my experiences over the past few weeks.

I wanted to take out a subscription to my favorite streamer. $4.99 payable with Bitcoin. Timely Confirmation Fees, $ 6.71. 134% of the purchase price. Even with an annual subscription, the fees would still be around 20-23%.

Paying my web hosting costs of around $30, Bitcon fees also around $5, which would be 16-17% fees.

The fees may be acceptable for buying a Tesla for $ 40-50k, but certainly not for daily payments.

Can't agree more! Bitcoin has indeed become an investment rather than a currency. Probably it's for greater good but still it's not a currency anymore. The only way to use bitcoin in your daily life is by using a prepaid card. Where you will fund your account using cryptocurrency and pay transaction fees only once and then continue to use the card for your daily purchases like you do with your other bank cards. That's one way out! However, if you want to do small or micro payment using bitcoin, that's not practical anymore! So the people within the network, it taking it as an investment because historically it has given a lot of profit to its investors. Also the big corporates joining the investment bandwagon, is sending another signal to the investors to invest. As of now, investment is more practical than using it as a currency system!

[KryptoKings]

As a long-time Bitcoin hodler, I welcome the current development of Bitcoin and find the increasing acceptance great. But the question arises as to whether Bitcoin can still be considered as money for everyday transactions or whether the idea is outdated and Bitcoin is more of a store of value option like gold than a means of payment.

Why? I try to pay with Bitcoin wherever possible. Fortunately, more and more merchants and services are accepting Bitcoin. Whether directly or through third-party providers. Here are my experiences over the past few weeks.

I wanted to take out a subscription to my favorite streamer. $4.99 payable with Bitcoin. Timely Confirmation Fees, $ 6.71. 134% of the purchase price. Even with an annual subscription, the fees would still be around 20-23%.

Paying my web hosting costs of around $30, Bitcon fees also around $5, which would be 16-17% fees.

The fees may be acceptable for buying a Tesla for $ 40-50k, but certainly not for daily payments.

Due to the scarcity of Bitcoin, it can never be used as money or currency. Whoever has even small portion of it, prefer to hold it till it's value appreciate to a level where he has made huge profit.
Bitcoin is seen by many as store of value. New adopters are buying it because they know it's price will shoot up and they find it as good investment.

[ChrisPop]

I believe the network fee issue will be solved in time as the crypto mining industry matures. Probably they are making some nice gains. Presently, the cost of mining is probably significantly lower than the current market price. There are current solutions like Lightning Network that people can use, but implementation of technology will surely come.

[Garmo]

Bitcoin's fees are ridiculous when it comes to small purchases, I couldn't agree more and the implementation of the Lightning Network has, to some extent, alleviated those fees as well as built a framework enabling instantaneous transactions. Even with this solution, Bitcoin's biggest hurdle to mass merchant adoption is scalability, along with it the atrociously high fees. Bitcoin hasn't failed, at least, yet. It is simply in the process of maturation, and I firmly believe it will overcome this as the developers behind it come up with solutions to this equation.

As others have already pointed out, transacting on the weekends is a good way to reduce fees.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Fee spikes can be annoying at times but when it comes to that,  timing matters when you are going to make a transaction to avoid spending lots in fees (yes, that what we are left with right now). I made a transaction early yesterday and spent less than a dollar in fiat value.

One of the major contributors to the very high fees is the price of Bitcoin today, many early Bitcoin developers and users probably never thought Bitcoin would worth $50K each today

I feel it hasn't yet failed as money because when you look at the other side of the situation where you are making transactions of large value like $10,000 or $100,000 not many services will charge you a fee of $2 for that like Bitcoin.

[Silberman]

As a long-time Bitcoin hodler, I welcome the current development of Bitcoin and find the increasing acceptance great. But the question arises as to whether Bitcoin can still be considered as money for everyday transactions or whether the idea is outdated and Bitcoin is more of a store of value option like gold than a means of payment.

Why? I try to pay with Bitcoin wherever possible. Fortunately, more and more merchants and services are accepting Bitcoin. Whether directly or through third-party providers. Here are my experiences over the past few weeks.

I wanted to take out a subscription to my favorite streamer. $4.99 payable with Bitcoin. Timely Confirmation Fees, $ 6.71. 134% of the purchase price. Even with an annual subscription, the fees would still be around 20-23%.

Paying my web hosting costs of around $30, Bitcon fees also around $5, which would be 16-17% fees.

The fees may be acceptable for buying a Tesla for $ 40-50k, but certainly not for daily payments.

I think we all have experienced recently what you are talking about, but I do not think that this means that bitcoin has failed as money, this is just the way bitcoin was designed from the very beginning, satoshi knew that bitcoin will either have no value or will have a very high one and if bitcoin got to the point in which it was very valuable then it will not be possible to use it for your everyday transactions, this is something that in fact happened to gold, the most widely used precious metal among gold and silver was silver and gold was reserved for larger transactions, what we do not know is which coin will become the silver of this market, for a long time many people thought that litecoin could be a candidate but that doesn't seem viable anymore.

[bbc.reporter]

As a long-time Bitcoin hodler, I welcome the current development of Bitcoin and find the increasing acceptance great. But the question arises as to whether Bitcoin can still be considered as money for everyday transactions or whether the idea is outdated and Bitcoin is more of a store of value option like gold than a means of payment.

Why? I try to pay with Bitcoin wherever possible. Fortunately, more and more merchants and services are accepting Bitcoin. Whether directly or through third-party providers. Here are my experiences over the past few weeks.

I wanted to take out a subscription to my favorite streamer. $4.99 payable with Bitcoin. Timely Confirmation Fees, $ 6.71. 134% of the purchase price. Even with an annual subscription, the fees would still be around 20-23%.

Paying my web hosting costs of around $30, Bitcon fees also around $5, which would be 16-17% fees.

The fees may be acceptable for buying a Tesla for $ 40-50k, but certainly not for daily payments.

It is also not only an issue about the fees. Bitcoin’s distribution is also a problem because the early adopters who have gotten very rich have more influence on the economy. Bitcoin has become a digital asset for hoarding. It might be good for the price, however, this is not good as a medium of exchange. Its own monetary policy has failed it.

[mezzaluna]

Its quite crippling to see that this fees are also getting higher and higher as time passes by but its something that really comes with Cryptocurrencies imo but I still believe that it did not really fail as a type of money. Bitcoin can really be useful because we can really use it digitally without even worrying our physical money. It is still can be used with digital transactions and as long as it is usable in that way, I will continue and earn Bitcoin to use it in my own way.

Maybe Bitcoin is just really costly because there are a lot of ways to earn them and having to face this consequences using them is just fine for me.

[Jawhead999]

Bitcoin can really be useful because we can really use it digitally without even worrying our physical money. It is still can be used with digital transactions and as long as it is usable in that way, I will continue and earn Bitcoin to use it in my own way.

What about paypal or fiat money in digital form in your countries? So, it doesn't make sense if you only talking about the "form" because fiat money can be used in digital.

Maybe Bitcoin is just really costly because there are a lot of ways to earn them and having to face this consequences using them is just fine for me.

There's no correlation between many ways to earn Bitcoin and the Bitcoin fees, it's determined based on the inputs and outputs of the transaction.

[kryptqnick]

It's a great question because it seems that many shifted easily from seeing Bitcoin as money to seeing it as a store of value. I, however, still wait till I can buy food in BTC in a local supermarket. The fees are very high, especially when the price is changing rapidly and people suddenly become more active. I think the idea of accepting zero-confirmation transactions which was discussed on the forum is worthy of attention because it's a simple solution that might at lest work in the meantime. I hope that the idea of Bitcoin as money is not outdated, and we'll see it being implemented within our lifetimes.

[Ozero]

While bitcoin will grow in value relatively quickly, there is no point in using it as a means of payment. Why buy goods or services for bitcoin, if its holder knows that after a while its price will rise and he will be able to buy even more goods for the same amount in bitcoins?
Therefore, the initial plans of Satoshi Nakamoto to use bitcoin mainly as an alternative means of payment can be considered to have successfully failed.

[StartupAnalyst]

It’s still early to talk about bitcoin as money. The biggest minus in using BTC for daily small payments is huge fees and long time you spent for transactions. These destroy plans and hopes of all traders to see BTC as means of payment for goods, taxi etc. We definitely need someone to invent App that will “outflank” somehow these minuses. Then everyone will have an opportunity to use crypto just like you use credit cards.

[Ryker1]

Well, bitcoin sending as money never been failed but I won't say, this is not a perfect currency that can replace fiat.
And that's it, because of the transaction high fees many bitcoin holders are preferred to hold their coin rather than using this daily. For me, this is not a perfect time, there is a Lightning network that could possibly not accepted because many of us did not know how to use it. It is too early to say bitcoin, bitcoin isn't good for daily payment.