hardware wallet

[bitcoinary]

Do you think the hardware wallet need to be improved now? and what's the most need to be improved first?

Thank you.

[1715250834]

1715250834

[1715250834]

1715250834

[Jawhead999]

Went it comes to Hardware wallet of course many people are using it due to high security and privacy, so what they need to improve are both of them. Even a popular and trusted hardware wallet (e.g. Ledger and Trezor) also has few vulnerabilities [1] [2] [3] In short : User data leaked, Physical access, and Malware. Because when you using a hardware wallet, you'd have fully to trust them.

[1] https://blog.trezor.io/fixing-physical-memory-access-issue-in-trezor-2b9b46bb4522
[2] https://saleemrashid.com/2018/03/20/breaking-ledger-security-model/
[3] https://cryptocomes.com/news/ledger-hardware-crypto-wallet-team-disclosed-data-breach-1-mln-users-data-under-attack

[bitcoinary]

Went it comes to Hardware wallet of course many people are using it due to high security and privacy, so what they need to improve are both of them. Even a popular and trusted hardware wallet (e.g. Ledger and Trezor) also has few vulnerabilities [1] [2] [3] In short : User data leaked, Physical access, and Malware. Because when you using a hardware wallet, you'd have fully to trust them.

[1] https://blog.trezor.io/fixing-physical-memory-access-issue-in-trezor-2b9b46bb4522
[2] https://saleemrashid.com/2018/03/20/breaking-ledger-security-model/
[3] https://cryptocomes.com/news/ledger-hardware-crypto-wallet-team-disclosed-data-breach-1-mln-users-data-under-attack

Thank you, We have initating a project that build our brand wallet, hope our products bring trustful to everyone from Bitcoin industry.

[Lorence.xD]

The only thing that I can think of that needs to be improved in a hardware wallet is the durability of the wallet itself, it needs to be able to withstand shock, fall, water and other elements. Maybe a manual override for when you forgot your password for access which can only be used if the number of attempts to enter the password reached the limit.

[Jawhead999]

-snip-

Thank you, We have initating a project that build our brand wallet, hope our products bring trustful to everyone from Bitcoin industry.

I don't want to judge or desperate your initiative, but to make a trust of your product especially your project is pretty new and doesn't have any reviews from a customers, it will be hard.

Even you offers more "cheap" rather than those hardware wallet (around $50-$100) many people would still stick on it since they're didn't want to take a any risk.

But well it just my opinion, anyway good luck with your project.

[bitcoinary]

The only thing that I can think of that needs to be improved in a hardware wallet is the durability of the wallet itself, it needs to be able to withstand shock, fall, water and other elements. Maybe a manual override for when you forgot your password for access which can only be used if the number of attempts to enter the password reached the limit.

Thank you so much, I write down your idea.

[dkbit98]

Do you think the hardware wallet need to be improved now? and what's the most need to be improved first?

Hardware wallets are devices like all other devices and if you don't improve in this space than your device will die sooner or later.
They can first work to improve their websites and procedure for ordering wallets while keeping customer privacy and reducing leaks, that means doing everything opposite from what ledger is doing.
Hardware wallets should be Open Source like Bitcoin is, and not hidden behind some secret NDA agreements and some unknown microchips and closed source code.
I am not saying secure elements are bad, but they can be weak link if they are not open source and transparent.

Safepal wallet for example stole GPL code and made it closed source, and they are using unknown secure element so I would not trust them.
Cobo wallet is open source but they are hiding what secure element they use, and ledger hides behind their precious NDA and closed source code.
Trezor wallet is not secure if you don't use passphrase, but I hear they are working on their own open source secure element and I support that but we are going to wait few years to see this.

[HCP]

Maybe a manual override for when you forgot your password for access which can only be used if the number of attempts to enter the password reached the limit.

Honestly... that sounds like a terrible idea and something that could be exploited to hack your wallet and steal your funds if the device was stolen... or someone decided that a $5 wrench might help persuade you to unlock your wallet.

The idea of the "kill switch" (ie. wipe the device) after exceeding the PIN/Password limit is to prevent someone attempting to bruteforce a device that they have "found" (stolen) by endlessly trying difference PINs/Passwords. Additionally, if the device isn't wiped, you leave yourself open to the possibility of data extraction (similar to the Trezor memory exploit)... even if the number of tries has been exceeded.

The "manual override" already exists... it's your 12/24 word recovery phrase! If you exceed the PIN/Password limit... you simply restore from your recovery phrase and away you go.

[Coin-Keeper]

Maybe a manual override for when you forgot your password for access which can only be used if the number of attempts to enter the password reached the limit.

Honestly... that sounds like a terrible idea and something that could be exploited to hack your wallet and steal your funds if the device was stolen... or someone decided that a $5 wrench might help persuade you to unlock your wallet.

The idea of the "kill switch" (ie. wipe the device) after exceeding the PIN/Password limit is to prevent someone attempting to bruteforce a device that they have "found" (stolen) by endlessly trying difference PINs/Passwords. Additionally, if the device isn't wiped, you leave yourself open to the possibility of data extraction (similar to the Trezor memory exploit)... even if the number of tries has been exceeded.

The "manual override" already exists... it's your 12/24 word recovery phrase! If you exceed the PIN/Password limit... you simply restore from your recovery phrase and away you go.

Exactly!

I actually prefer the reverse option for my own hardware wallets.  I set a self destruct PIN that someone will almost certainly try if they know me personally.  "That" PIN will automatically WIPE my wallet.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

The only thing that I can think of that needs to be improved in a hardware wallet is the durability of the wallet itself, it needs to be able to withstand shock, fall, water and other elements.

That would definitely be a nice feature, but I'm sure it would drive up the cost of the wallet--probably to the point of being way too expensive, given that the seed phrase/private keys for a hardware wallet have to be backed up just as securely against fire and everything else.  If you buy a Steelwallet or something similar, the hardware wallet itself could be destroyed and you'd still be able to regain access to your coins.

I kind of like the Opendime devices, as they're really small and just kind of neat.  It would be nice if they came with some kind of thing to guard the contacts, though.  The downside is that they're only made for one coin (AFAIK). 

I'd love to see a HW wallet with the capability to store obscure coins, i.e., ones that Ledger and Trezor don't currently support.  I used to be into shitcoins like RDD, GRC, and others and I had to store them on their own software wallets (admittedly, they're PoS coins, but it would have been nice to have the option to keep them on a HW wallet if I needed to).

[hugeblack]

Any device needs constant updating, otherwise it will be useless in the future.
Things I may wish I added:

 - Standalone wallet: no need to be connected to PC.
 - Solar powered: There is no need to connect it to a device in order to charge it, some solar cells can be added.
 - More cases/lock box: You can order them in several designs, it will became invisible, for example in the form of a cup or box, etc.

[bitcoinary]

Any device needs constant updating, otherwise it will be useless in the future.
Things I may wish I added:

 - Standalone wallet: no need to be connected to PC.
 - Solar powered: There is no need to connect it to a device in order to charge it, some solar cells can be added.
 - More cases/lock box: You can order them in several designs, it will became invisible, for example in the form of a cup or box, etc.

interesting demands, I will put it into my memo, I will keep update and inquiry more unique demands from bro here.

[LTU_btc]

It's always possible to find ways how to improve hardware wallet. Software, design of wallet, security and other thing, but I'm not going deep into it.
It was already said above, but I will expand it above. I have Ledger Nano S and it looks so easy to break. It would be great to have rugged hardware wallet which would be water-proof or water-resistant at least. I don't want to worry if my wallet will fall from table or I will pour out coffee on iit.
Yes, I understand that it would increase price of wallet significantly. But on the other hand, rugged phones doesn't cost very expensive compared with common ones.

[bitcoinary]

It's always possible to find ways how to improve hardware wallet. Software, design of wallet, security and other thing, but I'm not going deep into it.
It was already said above, but I will expand it above. I have Ledger Nano S and it looks so easy to break. It would be great to have rugged hardware wallet which would be water-proof or water-resistant at least. I don't want to worry if my wallet will fall from table or I will pour out coffee on iit.
Yes, I understand that it would increase price of wallet significantly. But on the other hand, rugged phones doesn't cost very expensive compared with common ones.

Thank you, strong without easy broken is the most considerable demands I believe too, write down into my list.

[20kevin20]

Yes, I understand that it would increase price of wallet significantly. But on the other hand, rugged phones doesn't cost very expensive compared with common ones.

Actually, they kinda do. What you may be thinking of is rugged cases, but those are way more different than what rugged phones offer. Rugged phones go through lots of testing phases and every little flaw has to be fixed until it can get as close to undestroyable as possible. But in the end, that will reflect right into the product's price. I can find 3G smartphones with 720p screen and an older Android version that are more expensive than mid-budget 5G phones just because they are rugged.

I don't see why we should have "rugged HWs". I feel like that's an overkill - if you spill your coffee on it and it dies, then just pull out the seed paper and recover your funds using it.

One thing I would like is having a HW that is fully offline and airgapped while still being convenient. If a device that has absolutely no connection to the external world (besides an integrated camera) can be used with the most popular wallets, I suppose it's going to work through QR codes.

That means you could use it with Electrum through Tails without having to modify udev rules. You could use it through Qubes OS without having to work your butt off trying to make it detect the device. And if your laptop ever goes crazy and gets infected with a virus, it is almost impossible that your airgapped HW is under a potential danger. At least it does seem to me like it's a way harder job than infecting a Ledger/Trezor while plugged into your PC.

[NeuroticFish]

Clearly a new generation of HW should come with better protection against tampering.

And a feature could be to also sell it as a package of parts that can be put together easily without tools. The parts don't have to be complicated, but once put together they cannot be taken apart without damage. And the device cannot run/get powered without such assembly. Something like this could ensure that the buyer is the first one running the device, hence the firmware is 100% sure not "touched". (Maybe the idea can be improved though).

[Pmalek]

- Solar powered: There is no need to connect it to a device in order to charge it, some solar cells can be added.

I think this would result in a price tag that would make the device unaffordable for the majority of potential customers. A company in Russia experimented with solar-powered iPhones. The back case of those phones had solar panels that charged the device. The price tag: $4.500-$4.800 a piece.

Yes, those are iPhones which are expensive even without them being solar-powered. Even if the price was $1.000, it would still not be worth purchasing (in my opinion) for most users. Reduce the price by half and you'll get $500, which is still x4-5 more expensive than a Trezor T, for example.

The article is from 2018, but it's still a good reference point how expensive such gadgets still are.
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/is-this-4500-solar-powered-iphone-the-future-of-business-smartphones/ 

[Lucius]

First and foremost manufacturers of HW must use military- grade electronic components when assembling them. Next, the case of HW has to be hermetically closed and, arguably, to have sensitive buttons instead of mechanical ones. And, the last but not least: the large display - the better.

There are such hardware wallets, but they have one major drawback - their price is at least 10 times higher than these standard models that are in widespread use today. Few will pay $500 for such a device just because it is made of some special material, if they can get a functional device for $50 that will ensure that their private keys are protected in a secure environment.

Do you mean the soft touch buttons? I think it's much better to have them like we have today, which can be felt under the fingers and can't be pressed accidentally, which could result in some unwanted action - after all, for some confirmations you need to press both buttons at the same time, and I'm more for that I feel all these actions under my fingers.

The bigger the display the better? Personally, I am satisfied with what we have today, although I believe that there are people who would appreciate that the screen is bigger, especially those who have vision problems.

[Lucius]

Please, head me out to at least one of them.... I don't think the price for such devices could be so high.

I think this hardware wallet is the most expensive, the price ranges from a minimum of $599 to $1999, and there is no doubt that it looks very nice and modern, and for those who are wondering what's under the hood - it's a collaboration between Trezor and Gray, so you get Trezor in reinforced armor, which of course comes at a price.

https://gray.inc/collections/corazon-wallet

There is also a more expensive version of the Trezor, produced in a limited edition of only 300 copies, and as far as I can see it is still available in their shop. The price is a real trifle, only 605 EUR.

https://shop.trezor.io/product/trezor-one-metallic

For those who want a hardware wallet in a mobile phone, here is something interesting, price only $999.

https://shop.sirinlabs.com/products/finney

[decodx]

Most hardware wallets are much more durable then USB drives, but this is not always the case. If you are someone who likes to travel a lot with your wallet, having a good quality one is an absolute must. The only solution is to use a high quality materials for the case.
This is likely to have a huge impact on the overall price of the unit, which is the main complaint.