How do I convince people that Bitcoin isn't a financial pyramid?

[target]

They know what Bitcoin is, it's been on the news for a decade I'm sure they can find the information if they really wanted to learn about BTC. They will probably reach this forum if they read further. Even the elderly today can find things on google, they learned how to use it already. The only reason why these financial guys say it's pyramid or Ponzi is to fud.

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[Mpamaegbu]

Haven't we passed that stage of convincing someone that Bitcoin isn't a pyramid? Well, if you must do that (I don't waste my time with people seeking validation of Bitcoin, anyway), just show them transactions on the blockchain. Nothing gets as transparent as the blockchain does. Also, remind the doubters that Bitcoin isn't a referral type of business. It's a peer to peer community based business. The community gives it validity and not a selected few.

[Rikafip]

People living in some fairy tales that are just fairy tales and nothing more, don’t look at the bigger picture at all - the world is actually one huge conflict of interest, and Bitcoin is currently just one small variable that is in the process of being evaluated between all those interests.

Not just that, but people also somehow tend to forget how much bitcoin managed to achieve in a little bit more than a decade. I think that this surpassed everyone wildest dreams, including Satoshi Nakamoto. What bitcoin achieved i this time frame is nothing but a miracle, but fudders will always find a reason to complain.

That's right, Satoshi knew how to value his time, and so should each of us - because when you think about how much time you spent explaining to someone what Bitcoin is - and instead of thanking, you turn out to be a weirdo and a criminal who wants to overthrow the government and monetary system.

Yep, I don't mind explaining shortly what bitcoin is, but I won't waste my time if I notice that someone is just trolling me or asking stupid questions. Funny thing, I am sure that 99% of the people that are fudding bitcoin have no idea how fiat is made, but that doesn't stop them from using it.

[DeathAngel]

In all honesty I don’t care about convincing anybody else. I’ve recommended bitcoin to loads of people over the years. If people can’t think for themselves & see how good an investment bitcoin is then we can’t help them.

[kryptqnick]

These are good points, but if a person wants to believe that Bitcoin's a ponzi, this person will keep believing it while ignoring any evidence that says otherwise. Unfortunately, it's next to impossible to convince a person to change an opinion if a person is already certain of it. However, these points can be useful to talk to people who didn't make up their minds yet. And to that end, I would add another point: all benefit (or suffer) equally if they made equal investments (no matter when they joined). I guess it's more of a subpoint to the first argument, but in a pyramid, early investors might get some profits, whereas the later to join the game, the worse off you'll be in the end. With Bitcoin, on the other hand, what matters is only how much BTC you bought and at what price.

[jjdub7]

With more and more influential people and companies getting involved with Bitcoin there's been a lot of talks about the crypto world among regular people, to whom Bitcoin is still something new and unknown.

As you might expect, many of these people believe that Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies will not benefit the economy, but rather only make it worse, and many are convinced that Bitcoin is yet another pyramid. And what upsets me the most is that among these people are economists, financial advisors, they should know better, than that...

So how do I prove them wrong?

Though I'm not a professional economist, still I've come up with some arguments as to why Bitcoin ISN'T a financial pyramid:

1. There's no single beneficiary
In financial pyramids, there's always someone, an organization, or a group of people who benefit from peoples' investments. Who benefits from Bitcoin? Anyone can become that person if he/she invests enough money, there's no one, who controls it.

However, a friend of mine argued that there are people, who benefit: electric companies from large energy consumption due to mining and the companies that develop and sell the miners.

But that's just crazy, to believe in that we'd have to assume that they're all in collusion.

2. There's no need for new recruitment
That's probably my favorite. The main reason why financial pyramids survive is that they constantly recruit new customers. Without that - the pyramid falls.
But there's absolutely no need to recruit new people for Bitcoin to function, am I right? Without new users, there'll be just redistribution of what there is among the current users, txns will still be going and the miners will have work to do. So there's no required amount of users for Bitcoin to function like there is in the pyramid. I see no potential flaws here.

3. There are no promises
In financial pyramids, it is common that an organization lures people in by promising that they can easily "turn $100 into $1000", for instance. There's no such thing with Bitcoin. Yes, there's a potential for it to grow, you can make money out of it, but there's also a potential for it to drop, everyone invests knowing this can happen and sometimes it does happen, we go in here being aware of the risks.

That's about it.

Also, one thing that people keep telling me and get me cornered with is that there's no actual value behind Bitcoin. And that the economy can't function like that. Making Bitcoin only requires resources (e.g. energy, machines), but Bitcoin doesn't give anything in return. They say that behind the fiat there's an actual value, which is why we can avoid inflation: precious metals, country resources, plus it is fixed to the GDP, which is why the economy can be stabilized.
Without that - fiat is just paper. And while Bitcoin has nothing like that fixed to its price - it is also nothing.
They say you can't just "create" money out of nowhere. The only way Bitcoin can function as a part of the economical system - is if we replace the fiat with it. What can you say about that? Sounds reasonable, but I'm not a specialist. Is that really true?

Don't hesitate to point out if I'm wrong somewhere, it'll help a lot. Also, it would be very helpful if some of you could come up with more arguments, proving that Bitcoin isn't a financial pyramid.

I know it isn't and I also want other people to know that it isn't, and for that, I need as many arguments as possible.

I don't think it matters how many arguments you can make in support of Bitcoin and the crypto world. The main driving force of people is not the desire to develop and assimilate new things, but the feeling of fear. People have always thought of those who have new and innovative ideas/knowledge about the threat, so it was with scientists in ancient times, with people who understood chemistry, physics, etc.

Now it's the same thing, people who are doing something new - cryptocurrencies - are people who are considered a threat, that they are fraudsters, and so on.

It's just how the world works, you can't convince someone who can't hear you.

[Oilacris]

In all honesty I don’t care about convincing anybody else. I’ve recommended bitcoin to loads of people over the years. If people can’t think for themselves & see how good an investment bitcoin is then we can’t help them.

You are definitely right on this one!

Ive been telling bitcoin wayback in 2016-2017 even if im still a noob on that time but i did really learn up things with the basic ones which it did really give out good impression
and due to excitement i did really tell others which first is on my family but they did really just ignore me.

When i do make out some serious money or profit then thats the time they do become interested and even up to now they do still keep asking but i dont have the interest
on sharing or telling anything not that im mad or upset but im just too lazy to do it nowadays. 

[ven7net]

I believe that if you start convincing someone of something, it will be wrong on your part. The fact is that if you want people to think well about Bitcoin, you just need to give the information that you own, and people themselves decide whether to believe in BTC or not. Personally, I always do this, I just share information and if someone is interested in this information, he joins. As for BTC itself, it certainly has a number of advantages, but this does not make it 100% the best asset, since an unexpected situation can always occur.

[Shasha80]

If someone thinks that Bitcoin is a financial pyramid, then there is a chance that person doesn't know Bitcoin very well. So it is our job who
already understands about Bitcoin to educate these people so they can find out the positive side of Bitcoin. It is not easy to educate people
who think negatively about Bitcoin from the start, we just do it according to our ability to educate others. But if in the end we can't convince
others that Bitcon isn't a financial pyramid, then leave them with their own opinion. Because we shouldn't force other people to have the same
thoughts as us. Sometimes everyone has a different perspective.

[Hippocrypto]

We don't need to convince people about it, because if this was financial pyramiding $50k btc price won't happen. The pyramiding scam only works with the top, and don't run through blockchain because the system was managed only by one person who manipulated the returns of investment. You only earn profit form person who joined the investment. There's no actual business that is presently running, unlike with bitcoin several institutions were now adopting to its platform and been used on businesses particular with online payment and other financial purposes.

[Twinkledoe]

If someone thinks that Bitcoin is a financial pyramid, then there is a chance that person doesn't know Bitcoin very well. So it is our job who
already understands about Bitcoin to educate these people so they can find out the positive side of Bitcoin. It is not easy to educate people
who think negatively about Bitcoin from the start, we just do it according to our ability to educate others. But if in the end we can't convince
others that Bitcon isn't a financial pyramid, then leave them with their own opinion. Because we shouldn't force other people to have the same
thoughts as us. Sometimes everyone has a different perspective.

You will really encounter a lot of people with that kind of mindset. If they are not interested in learning more about bitcoin or crypto, I don't push. Because it is only with their own will that will make easy for them to educate and be open-mind with things. It is hard to convince someone if they are not opening themselves to information. So just let them be, and in time, they will learn about the true nature of bitcoin. Ignorance is the reason why people think differently. But once they educate themselves, they will change their stance. Anyway, all the info that they may need is all available for free in the cyberspace.

[GeorgeJohn]

It will be very difficult to understand that bitcoin is not a financial booster, but people across the nations who are thinking from the day one that bitcoin is the source of money,they adventure into cryptocurrency because of the level of money they hear of cryptocurrency increments.

And from the grassroots people in rural areas always emphasised seriously that bitcoin is avenue of making wealth, and the functions they tagged cryptocurrency in general is that, cryptocurrency especially bitcoin is a scam, and is the Genesis of fraudulent activities around most developed countries, so we are not to blame people from their different actions and conception about bitcoin.

[Oasisman]

3. This forum is full of promises. 90+ % of posts are made of promises. HODL, and you´ll do fine. LN will solve the problems. These are ALL PROMISES. Hell, BTC´s "deflatory" design is a promise, nothing else. That is very closely linked with a rightful expectation for profit in the future.

BTC is not a pure pyramid, it´s a more complicated fraudulent scheme.

There's a difference between a promise and a real talk.
Can you tell me, If a person bought Btc in 2018 and Hodl up until this very moment, that the promise remains a promise?
And what's "deflatory"? I'm sorry, but I think you're trying to act smarter than the rest of the people in this forum.
Funny how you think Bitcoin as a complicated fraudulent scheme when it's running for more than 10 years and the SEC didn't do anything to stop this fraud? Instead big companies and local government units are all gradually coming in to the market.

Yeah, I was indeed one of the early ones who understood how BTC really works. And yes, I won´t "succeed" as if you all somehow converted into skeptics As a critical thinker, I try to write more relevant things and leave out the less relevant.

And I dont think you're one of the "early ones" who understands how Btc works when your account was created in 2018, instead you're one of the late investor who missed buying while Btc price was still within the reach of your budget because you have doubts.

[DapanasFruit]

I believe that convincing people that Bitcoin is not just another pyramid-like scheme is a big waste of time. This thing can easily be found online using Google so anyone who has doubt on Bitcoin can easily do it online. Actually, I am not sure if more people are sure on the issue of being just another ponzi scheme, people are actually afraid that Bitcoin will immediately go down in value once they enter investing with this coin. Well just like what is happening right now. Most people are not risk-taker and many can not accept the fact that they can be burned with anything they are investing with. As for me, the best argument that Bitcoin is not a pyramid is the fact that right now institutional funds and investment groups are already holding and will be adding more Bitcoin - you can't expect these big and famous firms to get involved with something that is a ponzi because they are always doing their due diligence when they get into something.

[TheUltraElite]

You cant argue with a no-coiner or one who does not believe in what the good and bad of crypto can do for the current economy.

From my personal experience, there have been people who are completely disinterested in it, since cryptocurrency is not useful to be spent or used on any merchant's site in their country. This may change with time. The question is not of ponzi as I have seen, but lack of a liquid market to buy sell.

In face in my country there are younger generation people willing to trade after giving KYC if the government allows it.

Again there are older age people who have a generalized mistrust among new things coming into their view. Cant blame them because most lead a lonely life out there and have to keep their own money carefully and are not tech-savvy.

Often if you are trying to explain about bitcoin to people, you cant change their way of thinking unless there is a real time move from their government like "crypto-trading is now legal" or similar.

[Genemind]

I stopped convincing people that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. I used to that when I was new in crypto and when I started earning through bounties and trading. However, the more you convenience and try to explain to other people, it always falls into deaf's ears. If they will not believe it, it is their loss and not mine. Some of the friends that I introduced BTC to as early as 2013 are now sending me DMs on how to start. Well, it may not be too late but you have missed a couple of years of income if you would've started a while back.

[geegaw]

In all honesty I don’t care about convincing anybody else. I’ve recommended bitcoin to loads of people over the years. If people can’t think for themselves & see how good an investment bitcoin is then we can’t help them.

Indeed, we had many periods where bitcoin lacked capital, lacked users and was forced to persuade some other people to join bitcoin, we talked a lot about its potential and value, and after only a few years, a bitcoin empire was formed, the value of bitcoin was a number to convince everyone, the people who joined early were right about their choice. Right now is the time to harvest the fruit, continuing to persuade was unnecessary as capitalization has increased steadily, people need to believe what they see, instead of thinking bitcoin is a financial scam

[Natsuu]

Way back 2013 or 2014, I also believed that it is something of pyramid scam as there are many personalities that says so, and I'm a dumb high schooler that time so I believed it. But I think we passed that age as many High-end personalities who are new to btc that invests in BTC. So I think that investments speaks to it itself. If it is a pyramid then those Billionaires are part of the bottom part of the pyramid or something?, it doesn't fit right.

[Lordhermes]

Over the period of time, many friends came to my dm on social media and asked me how to go about bitcoin, I humbly answered them by saying just buy bitcoin and hodl in your wallet. They looked at me as if I don't know what I'm saying, all what they want to hear is that, use that bitcoin and pay Mr A, while bringing another user Mr. C to create a chain of pyramid under them. Let me clear you op, the society had taught them about pyramid and how to handle and tell each other sorry when it goes wrong on them, and so when they hear about something different, they can't handle it. Never gets distracted from noobs that wants you to explain to them how pyramid Bitcoin is, quit and give them dump ears.

A currency wouldn't be a pyramid itself, so why Bitcoin would be a financial pyramid?

So what can be a pyramid, a product, goods,? If it's a product means bitcoin can also be financial pyramid because it has a market that shows up buy and sell button. Right?

[just_Alice]

I do think the actual value behind Bitcoins is the Investors itself, we have the biggest companies investing in Bitcoins and they have had seen the whole thing since years and what did they do ?
They invested millions !
I do think this should be enough of a backup point for the people that millions are being poured in from different directions and people are literally asking for the value of Bitcoins Shouldn't this be itself evident. At the same time these people should also know that every person who holds even the slightest of the Bitcoins is very important in the ecosystem itself. I do think Bitcoins is not something that we can define by the laws and the terms made years before when we have few options available. It's a new world system and you know Bitcoins is Bitcoins itself. Why do they even want to define it in the traditional terms? Is the acceptance of new era that hard?

Good point, but here's one problem with this argument: there's a history of influential people investing in Ponzi.
 
For instance, there are famous figures that invested millions in Bernie Madoff's scam, like John Malkovich, Jeffrey Katzenberg - the Dreamworks Animation executive, and, not to mention a whole lot of banks and funds, some of which invested billions!
It's not Elon Musk, though, I agree, but still, they're kind of important people and organizations.

But no matter, I get it now. There really is no point in arguing with this army of Bitcoin haters and trying to prove a point. Haters gonna hate. Maybe, someday they'll get it.
Bitcoin is something totally new.
It's the same as going back in time when people used to trade with goods and metals, and try to convince these people to use fiat instead of trading with pieces of gold. They'd be like: wft? Why should I use some worthless piece of paper? If the new economical system, as it is today, was proposed to them right away I bet they'd probably think it was a fraudulent scheme too.

And trying to make Bitcoin a part of the existing system, attach its price to something, and say that there should be a value behind it - is the same as if people back then said: why should we use just an ordinary paper as fiat? There's to value in the paper, let's make this paper gold-plated and then use it.
They just don't get it, that's all.

I think we should just wait for people to evolutionize, meanwhile, those who get it should relish the opportunity and buy crypto