21 million is it just a pointless number and nothing to do with scarcity?

[fyeth finance]

BTC 58k ?

[aoluain]

BTC 58k ?

No 21m !

[VanDeinsberg12]

I mean, what's the problem with that? i'm sure when satoshi first created bitcoin he didn't intend the 21 mln hard cap to increase that sense of scarcity. bitcoin is fractional and everyone knows that but it's still right to say that bitcoin still amounts to 21 mln despite all the smaller units. It's not like the scarcity affects the market so much anyway.

[777Jolami]

I watch videos and read websites about Bitcoin and they mention the 21 million limit to make it sound very scarce. But since there are 100 million Satoshi in a Bitcoin it doesn't seem scarce to me.

I mean if it was 2.1 million Bitcoin and 1000 million Satoshi or 210 million Bitcoin and 10 million Satoshi it changes the scarcity push.

There are 2,100,000,000,000,000 Satoshi, so if 100 Satoshi (or in tradition money standards 100 pennies), that would mean 21,000,000,000,000.00 Bitcoin. 21 Trillion Bitcoin doesn't sound so scarce now does it...

In my opinion, in the bitcoin blockchain, Satoshi had a computation of the limit block to reach, which provided enough support for both holders and miners without narrowing the creation space and the scarcity that will greatly affect future universality.  Excessive scarcity will cause bitcoin to lose its usefulness and the miner consumes a lot of resources but the value of the benefit is not guaranteed.  So 21 million seems to have been well thought out.

[AB de Royse777]

I wont complain if he wants to pay me a buck a sat now.

Add my sats too then. I will PM you the amount I have :-D
/s

Oh yeah, I will be giving 20% commission of the total sell, so you are going to make more.

[Ucy]

I think the scarcity simply depends on its demand, and how much coins are available to take care of demand ... You know it's scarce when the price goes up due to high demand

[gmaxwell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtLEWVu815o

[arcmetal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFK9tHzV6WA

[Khaos77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtLEWVu815o

This one is more accurate, Greg.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BZoKH-hX_o
Why Blockstream Destroyed Bitcoin

For Million$ in fiat of course    
https://blockstream.com/2016/02/02/en-blockstream-new-investors-55-million-series-a/

[Lorence.xD]

It would be a pointless number if each satoshi is equivalent to 1 USD and it isn't so your point is invalid. A supply cap like the 21 million bitcoin has something to do with scarcity, because if they can't add more into the supply, the lowering of it will only make the price increase which is scarcity.

[Khaos77]

It would be a pointless number if each satoshi is equivalent to 1 USD and it isn't so your point is invalid. A supply cap like the 21 million bitcoin has something to do with scarcity, because if they can't add more into the supply, the lowering of it will only make the price increase which is scarcity.

Most people don't understand how division can increase supply.
Here it is.

if Bitcoin can only be divided by 1,
then
21 million BTC / 1= 21 Million BTC  tradable supply, which you could claim scarce
but the problem is the division is not limited

21 million BTC / .5 = 42 Million BTC tradable supply
21 million BTC / .25 = 84 Million BTC  tradable supply
Now lets look at a satoshi 8 places to the right of the decimal
21 million BTC / .00000001 = 2.1 Quadrillion BTC  tradable supply

Now while the number on the left did not change, the total Tradable Supply increases dramatically.
Exchanges have 9 places to the right of the decimal for some trading pairs.
Lightning Network has proposed 12 places to the right of the decimal.

They can inflate the tradable supply units to an unlimited number all the while claiming bitcoin is scarce because the number on the left won't change, but their division number is changing so it is increasing the tradable supply, but they think you are all too stupid to figure it out.

And for the few that brought into the nonsense that division can't increase supply, I suggest you get out an old biology book,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_division

Cell division is the process by which a parent cell divides into two or more daughter cells.

FYI:
Price increasing is not scarcity, in the crypto world it is nothing more than manipulation or market speculation.
Because for Bitcoin to be scarce would mean it performs a function only it can do,
every altcoin out there outperforms bitcoin on transaction capacity and price per fee affordability.
So without some underlying distinctive characteristics Bitcoin can never be scarce as any altcoins can replace it's characteristics.
 

*This will be my last post in btctalk, if people can't recognize the truth, then the consequence of ignoring the truth will be overpowering.*

 

[Vishnu.Reang]

I think the scarcity simply depends on its demand, and how much coins are available to take care of demand ... You know it's scarce when the price goes up due to high demand

What sort of scarcity are you talking about? As of now, 1.864 quadrillion Satoshis are in existence and more are being mined every day. For comparison, the M1 supply of US Dollar is estimated at 6.75 trillion USD. Obviously the rate of increase can't be compared. M1 supply for USD increased by almost 50% during 2020, but since BTC is protected against inflation you can't expect a similar increase.

[Karartma1]

....But its a limit.

There isn't a limit. 21M is the cap for BTC. In the past people used to buy things like pizza with thousands of BTC but now you can buy the same pizza with 2 mBTC and in the upcoming years we will buy it with 2 Satoshi then 2 mSatoshi and so on.

While the value is limitless, the number is limited. In contrast, the number of dollars is limitless.

Applause!
In fact it could be represented like this:
Bitcoin - limited cap, with a possible valuation that can go up to infinity
Dollars - no cap, infinite supply, valuation goes to zero as it moves forward.

How is this so difficult to get?

[hemzer]

I watch videos and read websites about Bitcoin and they mention the 21 million limit to make it sound very scarce. But since there are 100 million Satoshi in a Bitcoin it doesn't seem scarce to me.

I mean if it was 2.1 million Bitcoin and 1000 million Satoshi or 210 million Bitcoin and 10 million Satoshi it changes the scarcity push.

There are 2,100,000,000,000,000 Satoshi, so if 100 Satoshi (or in tradition money standards 100 pennies), that would mean 21,000,000,000,000.00 Bitcoin. 21 Trillion Bitcoin doesn't sound so scarce now does it...

Thanks like saying I do not feel as rich holding a single $100 bill vs holding 100 $1 bills.

[ChrisPop]

I see your perspective, but it is not quite accurate. You see satoshis are a subdecimal part of a Bitcoin. It is mathematic rule that a whole can be divided in more parts. 21 million Bitcoin is very scarce for a raising global population of over 7bn.

Satoshi is a good measurement unit for when Bitcoin will get to very big numbers.

[franky1]

bitcoins code. and the value in bytes on the blockchain is in satoshis.
yep the blockchain data does not store bitcoins.

its the GUI(graphic user interface) that converts the satoshi data into bucket buzzwords called bitcoin just for simple human visual.
yep a bitcoin is just a bucket term for humans to understand numbers in less significant figures than quadrillion
its also a psychological game where everyone would love to own a 1tonne block of gold even when a 1 tonne single block doesnt exist as a singe block. but only does in words and thoughts

its the simple game
which SOUNDS more scarce. 190k tonnes of gold or 6billion ounces
190000
6000000000

yep well no one has a single tonne block of gold. its always a pile of smaller pieces
so while 190k does sound scarce the reality is that everyone has a supply of gold
yep the device you are viewing this post on has gold in it. its not scarce

the limited supply is not about scarcity. its about a fixed amount to not be inflatable.
think of bitcoin as the asset that will never create more beyond its limit to cause an inflation. then realise this asset has better value store than fiat.

when i think the word bitcoin. i dont think currency unit of measure. i think protocol/codebase/brand. as for the units of measure i think bits(100sat) and sats
it makes no difference to me if its 100000000sats or 1btc. btc is meaningless term as a unit of measure even if i do own many many btc. i prefer to say i own mullions of bits or billions of sats

[arcmetal]

...

*This will be my last post in btctalk, if people can't recognize the truth, then the consequence of ignoring the truth will be overpowering.*

 

Oh, one can only hope.

Apparently you missed this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFK9tHzV6WA

In it, your version of "division" is explained rather well.

[Karartma1]

yep the blockchain data does not store bitcoins.

True with a mention: we also have no bitcoins as coins in our wallet even when we see fancy numbers on the GUI or the command line if you like it best.
We control the private keys via our wallet software, notwithstanding that we could use them in many other forms, and the only thing that matters are these keys that give us access to our UTXOs which are basically staying in the last block of appearance until we decide to move them along by using our private keys and move our coins to another public key which will then control new UTXOs....
etc. etc. etc.
How ingenious is all this?