Where do you find other Cash Traders ?

[lydiasys]

Hello, I am building a p2p decentralized platform and would like to mainly know where cash traders typically find other cash traders. So, if you have a little bit of time, reply to this post with your answers to:

1. Where do you post (or find) cash trade offers ? Localbitcoins, Paxful, Bisq, Localcryptos, Bitcointalk, Craiglist, or...?

2. What is one thing you would like to change from the platform that you use now to make your experience better ?


I appreciate your time.

PS : If you are interested in learning more about the platform, PM me, I am going to offer early access to some of the first ones interested.

[1715041371]

1715041371

[1715041371]

1715041371

[Cook My Sock]

What’s your reputation? Your account is brand new

[lydiasys]

What’s your reputation? Your account is brand new

Are you asking about the platform's reputation or my reputation on Bitcointalk ? I'm personally keeping my ID private but I don't understand why you would ask that for this topic since I am only asking 2 questions to cash traders. Maybe you can elaborate a little more to help me understand.

[Cook My Sock]

A website like this requires developer transparency not anonymity. That’s the point I’m trying to make the forum has nothing to do with it. If you’re not a reputable developer and you’re not well known. And you aren’t being really transparent. Good luck my friend this industry isn’t the Wild West anymore fella

[lydiasys]

A website like this requires developer transparency not anonymity. That’s the point I’m trying to make the forum has nothing to do with it. If you’re not a reputable developer and you’re not well known. And you aren’t being really transparent. Good luck my friend this industry isn’t the Wild West anymore fella

I understand your point. I just don't think it would matter in the current topic since I'm asking cash traders what platform they use and what they don't like about it.

I still want to talk about your point because the fact that you distrust an anonymous developer is valid, so I'll tell you why I believe it it is better if I stay anonymous.


First, since this topic is about cash trades, I want to note that the platform has a really hands off approach on cash trades that is different than for online trades so the need for trusting the developer is small and you can check this topic if you want to know more about how we will offer cash trades : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5318881.0

Now, looking at the online trades where some level of trust is required, let me explain better what we are developing.
The platform we are making is a decentralized one which allows traders to do Fiat to BTC trades with the help of a 2 of 3 multi-sig wallet. We decided to go decentralized because
a. we wanted traders in control of their finances (no custodian)
b. we wanted to create a better p2p trading experience while limiting the admin's involvement
c. we wanted to provide the world an unrestricted platform (for ex. no KYC)

We welcome all traders and offer them an intuitive system that favors the honest trader. We won't hold any of the traders' funds and it is free to post an offer and open a trade.

The platform itself will be open source so anyone can review the code and decide if they trust the system we built or not. The need to trust a developer is old thinking, I personally think, you need to check the code that is being run and make sure it is not tampered with.

Therefore, in order to make a reputable platform that still follows the logic of Bitcoin, we are making a platform that does not gain a reputation by the founders' real names but by the fact that it is open source and has an incentive to stay honest because of the platform fees it charges.

Please let me know if you are satisfied with the explanation or if you still disagree, Thanks.

[logfiles]

1. Where do you post (or find) cash trade offers ? Localbitcoins, Paxful, Bisq, Localcryptos, Bitcointalk, Craiglist, or...?

I don't get you well here, are you trying to find out about other examples of p2p marketplaces?

Otherwise, my favorite is localcryptos but when fees are so high, I use Binance p2p instead.

2. What is one thing you would like to change from the platform that you use now to make your experience better ?

It's quite hard to just brainstorm minus knowing what features the platform will have.
Maybe you can first outline what your platform will provide then we add on what we think could be nice but missing from the features.

[joniboini]

-snip-

I think OP is looking for where do people usually made trade offers, it's self-explanatory imo. Not necessarily listing new platforms, just asking where do people usually post their ads, which could help him decide which platform he needs to get more inspiration from.

As for the second question, there's really no need to know what platform OP offers, since he's asking whether you're satisfied with your current platform or not, and if you're not, what kind of features you'd like to see to improve your experience. It's like asking "do you like Youtube? What kind of feature you'd like to see on the platform?" etc. In short, he is looking for the weakness of his competitors and sees whether he can use it to his advantage or not.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I know I've already replied on your other thread, but I figured I can answer this question for you too. Anything that might help launch another decentralized peer to peer trading service. Smiley

I have used Bisq, HodlHodl, and LocalCryptos to find cash traders. I generally favor Bisq whenever possible for its truly decentralized nature (whereas the other two I mentioned still require operating through a centralized website), as well as the fact that I like the set up of their multi-sig escrow between buyer and seller. I would never touch a completely centralized service like LocalBitcoins which requires KYC and also requires you to give up custody of your coins by depositing to their wallets. Such a set up completely defeats the point of trading peer to peer in the first place. I would be tempted to use these forums to find other cash traders (and indeed, there are a number of users who I know are physically close enough to me and I would definitely trust to perform an escrow-less cash trade with), but I would not compromise my privacy by revealing my location and appearance to another user on here.

A website like this requires developer transparency not anonymity. That’s the point I’m trying to make the forum has nothing to do with it. If you’re not a reputable developer and you’re not well known. And you aren’t being really transparent. Good luck my friend this industry isn’t the Wild West anymore fella

Completely disagree. Bitcoin was built by an anonymous developer. Developer transparency is not required, provided the code (and in this case, the service) is transparent.

[buwaytress]

Localcryptos and Bisq are the ones I'd name from that list. Personally, I still find a lot of joy from Localbitcoins because of the ease of currency options I can find there (and payments in one of my locations, instant is so easy).

Not sure if it's a cultural thing but most of the traders in my home jurisdiction, once you've done a trade on any of these platforms, we then exchange numbers and port over to a messaging app (wechat, whatsapp, telegram, depending). It's purely a trust system afterwards but I tend to do business with those long in the game (they're not crypto sellers solely, doing digital exchange for 15-20 years).

[o_e_l_e_o]

Not sure if it's a cultural thing but most of the traders in my home jurisdiction, once you've done a trade on any of these platforms, we then exchange numbers and port over to a messaging app (wechat, whatsapp, telegram, depending).

I'm the same, but usually not until we've done a handful of trades, maybe between 5 and 10, and I feel I can trust them while cutting out the escrow that Bisq (or the other platform) provides. It allows us to trade more easily with each other since we will accept zero confirmation transactions, we can trade higher volumes, and we will offer each other better rates. Although by doing all this, you obviously increase the risk of being scammed since there is no escrow and no platform to seek recourse from.

And I only use Signal since most other messaging apps are terrible for privacy. 

[buwaytress]

Not sure if it's a cultural thing but most of the traders in my home jurisdiction, once you've done a trade on any of these platforms, we then exchange numbers and port over to a messaging app (wechat, whatsapp, telegram, depending).

I'm the same, but usually not until we've done a handful of trades, maybe between 5 and 10, and I feel I can trust them while cutting out the escrow that Bisq (or the other platform) provides. It allows us to trade more easily with each other since we will accept zero confirmation transactions, we can trade higher volumes, and we will offer each other better rates. Although by doing all this, you obviously increase the risk of being scammed since there is no escrow and no platform to seek recourse from.

And I only use Signal since most other messaging apps are terrible for privacy. 

Ah yeah, of course, absolutely not on the first or even second/third trades. I also tend to mark those who use their real names and don't do third party, and who've got years of experience (as shown by really old trades) then you know it's the same person and same account.

Definitely makes sense when you need someone you know can do an instant tx with the same bank/method, and do big volume or high frequency. Negotiating prices always best too. Like you said, though, not recommended for first-timers... you kind of have to be in the business a long time to know who's got the most to lose by scamming.

Yeah I'd recommend Ricochet also for privacy but I think Telegram/WA is the best of both worlds for me, we're not exactly anon where I trade =)

[lydiasys]

2. What is one thing you would like to change from the platform that you use now to make your experience better ?

It's quite hard to just brainstorm minus knowing what features the platform will have.
Maybe you can first outline what your platform will provide then we add on what we think could be nice but missing from the features.

Hey, right now the main focus is cash trades so we just wanted to know specifically what you don't like about the current platform you use when it comes to cash trading.

If you want to get a little more detail about our platform to make a comment, I made another topic where I can explain better  the features  : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5318881.msg56400337#msg56400337

I have used Bisq, HodlHodl, and LocalCryptos to find cash traders. I generally favor Bisq whenever possible for its truly decentralized nature (whereas the other two I mentioned still require operating through a centralized website), as well as the fact that I like the set up of their multi-sig escrow between buyer and seller. I would never touch a completely centralized service like LocalBitcoins which requires KYC and also requires you to give up custody of your coins by depositing to their wallets. Such a set up completely defeats the point of trading peer to peer in the first place. I would be tempted to use these forums to find other cash traders (and indeed, there are a number of users who I know are physically close enough to me and I would definitely trust to perform an escrow-less cash trade with), but I would not compromise my privacy by revealing my location and appearance to another user on here.

Appreciate the response. I understand and agree with your points but we are starting out with a centralized website because we think it is more user friendly and simpler to start with. We want a simple google search, and you are there. (there is also already enough hoops for a beginner with understanding how to use multi-sig wallet for the first time). We don't think we are losing that much by running on a website in terms of security and privacy as long as everyone has access to the code. We will collect only the necessary data and will flush unnecessary data after x amount of time.

@o_e_l_e_o What would be your main concern about using a website instead of an application?

Not sure if it's a cultural thing but most of the traders in my home jurisdiction, once you've done a trade on any of these platforms, we then exchange numbers and port over to a messaging app (wechat, whatsapp, telegram, depending). It's purely a trust system afterwards but I tend to do business with those long in the game (they're not crypto sellers solely, doing digital exchange for 15-20 years).

Yes, that is a very good point for online trades, more so then cash traders where we encourage outside communication. After you've traded with someone online enough times, you don't want to pay the platform fee and tend to push the communication/trading to a messaging app. I do it. I know most big time traders do it. But why?

The good about trading directly once you've done a couple of trades with someone:
1. No platform fee, only the transaction fee
2. You can decide the anonymity of your communications (auto-delete messages, encryption, etc...)

The bad:
1. Someone has to risk getting scammed after sending first. With a 1% platform fee, you have to do about 100 trades until you can "afford" to be scammed once
2. Won't hurt the scammers' reputation on the platform if you trade directly. Because you can't leave feedback
3. Inefficient trade. It is quite annoying to trade on wechat, whatsapp... because you have to agree on a btc price provider, lock the rate, calculate the amount that needs to be sent +/- the rate, send the btc address, send the btc, check when it arrives and if the amount is right, etc...

I would be lying if I said I don't do it BUT that is part of the reason we started the platform. We are focusing on the good and fixing the bad. For the risk of getting scammed when trading directly, we are offering a multi-sig escrow wallet with an option to dispute. All disputes will be reviewed by an admin who actually traded/used the payment method before and not some random customer support agent. For the lack of reputation in direct trades, we have a feedback system. For the inefficient trading system involved in using texting apps, the platform offers an intuitive system to trade. And to fix these issues, the platform is still doing a good job of keeping trader's information as private and secure as possible, away from third parties' hands. Also, we haven't decided on an exact platform fee to charge but most payment methods will be less than 1% (and between us, it will be prob be 0.5% for most payment methods).

After all is said and done, if traders still want to communicate outside of the platform and drop their Signal/Ricochet/Telegram numbers, I don't think we'll ever block them. But we will warn all traders that this might hurt the dispute process and hurt them more than it will help them. So no more one22 7six3 eiggght 9too8 




Thanks for the responses guys. Keep em coming

[magneto]

Hello, I am building a p2p decentralized platform and would like to mainly know where cash traders typically find other cash traders. So, if you have a little bit of time, reply to this post with your answers to:

1. Where do you post (or find) cash trade offers ? Localbitcoins, Paxful, Bisq, Localcryptos, Bitcointalk, Craiglist, or...?

2. What is one thing you would like to change from the platform that you use now to make your experience better ?


I appreciate your time.

PS : If you are interested in learning more about the platform, PM me, I am going to offer early access to some of the first ones interested.

I generally find my cash trades from LBC, although that has gotten increasingly difficult with LBC removing GC and in person trading altogether.

Still though, if you scour long enough you'll generally find people that put up ads for bank transfer willing to do a cash trade. But that is getting rarer and rarer.

With Bisq and other alternatives I always find that the spreads are way too high for them to be a meaningful option. You might as well just do a cash deposit trade if you are taking rates that are +5-10% over spot price.

I think it'll be hard to get people to trust your platform when you first start out as people are really sceptical these days. But there is certainly a void to fill in this p2p cash trading area right now, so best of luck.

[buwaytress]

Yes, that is a very good point for online trades, more so then cash traders where we encourage outside communication. After you've traded with someone online enough times, you don't want to pay the platform fee and tend to push the communication/trading to a messaging app. I do it. I know most big time traders do it. But why?

The good about trading directly once you've done a couple of trades with someone:
1. No platform fee, only the transaction fee
2. You can decide the anonymity of your communications (auto-delete messages, encryption, etc...)

The bad:
1. Someone has to risk getting scammed after sending first. With a 1% platform fee, you have to do about 100 trades until you can "afford" to be scammed once
2. Won't hurt the scammers' reputation on the platform if you trade directly. Because you can't leave feedback
3. Inefficient trade. It is quite annoying to trade on wechat, whatsapp... because you have to agree on a btc price provider, lock the rate, calculate the amount that needs to be sent +/- the rate, send the btc address, send the btc, check when it arrives and if the amount is right, etc...

I would be lying if I said I don't do it BUT that is part of the reason we started the platform. We are focusing on the good and fixing the bad. For the risk of getting scammed when trading directly, we are offering a multi-sig escrow wallet with an option to dispute. All disputes will be reviewed by an admin who actually traded/used the payment method before and not some random customer support agent. For the lack of reputation in direct trades, we have a feedback system. For the inefficient trading system involved in using texting apps, the platform offers an intuitive system to trade. And to fix these issues, the platform is still doing a good job of keeping trader's information as private and secure as possible, away from third parties' hands. Also, we haven't decided on an exact platform fee to charge but most payment methods will be less than 1% (and between us, it will be prob be 0.5% for most payment methods).

After all is said and done, if traders still want to communicate outside of the platform and drop their Signal/Ricochet/Telegram numbers, I don't think we'll ever block them. But we will warn all traders that this might hurt the dispute process and hurt them more than it will help them. So no more one22 7six3 eiggght 9too8 

Thanks for the responses guys. Keep em coming

You're absolutely right, for sure, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone trying for the first time either! But as I said above, it could be a cultural thing -- I trade in several locations, being resident, originating and working in different places, and this actually only happens where I originate from.

1. and 2.
The risk of losing reputation and years of clientele and business -- this means an old phone number/account on a local group somewhere, and then everyone spreading that news -- far outweights the benefits of a single scam. There is no feedback/reputation area, that's gained from familiarity in small circles on these underground p2p groups. Again I talk not just about crypto traders but people whose business it is to exchange currencies, most were exchanging PP, PM, scores of other digital currencies, even e-gold back in 2003. Bitcoin just became their latest do.
3. Actually it's fairly efficient if you actually deal with veterans and/or familiar people. You agree quickly on a bulk price. Send the BTC tx, guy sends you instantly (you also receive instantly) without confirmation needed. I've sold BTC and got my cash literally in seconds. No sending and waiting for confirmations on platform, waiting 60 mins for trade to get accepted, then waiting for days for cash to land in my account =)

AGAIN, I don't recommend it to anyone, but sharing how I do it in certain places, and how many, many others do.

So no more one22 7six3 eiggght 9too8 

Made me laugh...
or "username" on the panasmail (translates to hotmail).

[o_e_l_e_o]

Appreciate the response. I understand and agree with your points but we are starting out with a centralized website because we think it is more user friendly and simpler to start with.

This is undoubtedly true. Given that Bisq is an outlier, and every other peer to peer platform is based on a website, I don't think there is anything wrong with you also using a website.

@o_e_l_e_o What would be your main concern about using a website instead of an application?

It's not just that it's an application, but that it runs peer to peer by connecting directly with other users and not through a centralized server. It is better in terms of privacy since there is no centralized website which can log IP addresses, leave tracking cookies, record individual activity, and so on, although much of this can be mitigated by using Tor.