Atomic Swaps or Decentralized Exchanges?

[very_452001]

Which atomic swap service is the best out there that allows you to sell your popular common crypto's for dai?

Are decentralized exchanges same as atomic swaps?

Do both of these services have to comply with tax regulations and KYC? If not then can governments ban them or shut them down?

Which is the best decentralized exchange out there?

[BitMaxz]

There are a list of exchanges here https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/dai#markets

Anyway, if you don't care about the high transaction fee(due to network congestion) you can try Uniswap or Sushiswap. Those exchanges are decentralized without KYC and I think they won't comply with the tax and they have the same charge fee of 0.3% trading fee.

[Charles-Tim]

Which atomic swap service is the best out there that allows you to sell your popular common crypto's for dai?

You can check the link below for first fifty decentralized exchanges, you can click on each to see the coins with the highest trading  volume, coin pairs, volume, price and volume percentage. PancakeSwap3 will be good for Dai swapping, but for bitcoin exchange, Bsiq will be the best as most of these exchanges are not supporting bitcoin.

Most of these exchanges are ethereum based, if you want the ones that are general, you can use Changelly (but some cases in the based in a way they demand for kyc), or CoinSwitch.

https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/dex/

Are decentralized exchanges same as atomic swaps?

Decentralized exchanges are the platforms. Atomic swap is the service decentralized exchanges are offering. Atomic swap is a smart contract that fulfills trades between two people without the need for any third party. Athough, the definition is not totally fulfilled by the exchanges that are providing such services but the true ones do make sure they are completely decentralized without requesting for KYC.

Do both of these services have to comply with tax regulations and KYC? If not then can governments ban them or shut them down?

This can be the fear that government may ban such services, but this has been impossible as they even seen significantly growth in 2020. They have nothing to do with tax as they are Decentralized.

Which is the best decentralized exchange out there?

Using the link above to check will be good. For bitcoin users, Bsiq will be preferred. For ethereum and its tokens, Uniswap, PancakeSwap and some others will be preferable. For Binance coin, Binance Dex and BurgerSwap will be preferred. For exchanging from one big coins to another like bitcoin, ethereum, tether, Dai, litec and many such coins, Changelly and CoinSwitch will be preferred.

[mk4]

I'm probably guessing that the Binance "DEX"[1] is the biggest? But yea, they're mostly more of non-custodial than "decentralized", because they're definitely not decentralized. "DEX" is unfortunately more of a marketing term. No KYC as far as I know though.

Following up next down the list, I'm pretty sure Uniswap[2] is the second biggest. Obviously, no BTC because everything will be ERC20 tokens, and take note that the gas fees on ETH are tremendous.

[1] https://binance.org/
[2] https://uniswap.org/

[cryptoaddictchie]

Which is the best decentralized exchange out there?

For me its uniswap and pancakeswap. These dexes are widely used now. Not sure about atomic swap, but Ive been hearing a lot of good feedbacks before about this. Dex under ehh are massively common used so I guess this is way better example of these are the one mentioned aboved. Also the pancakeswap that are gaining traction now.

[OcTradism]

There are a list of exchanges here https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/dai#markets

Anyway, if you don't care about the high transaction fee(due to network congestion) you can try Uniswap or Sushiswap. Those exchanges are decentralized without KYC and I think they won't comply with the tax and they have the same charge fee of 0.3% trading fee.

Smart contracts on those Uniswap, Sushiswap, any swaps combine with the high transaction gas price on the ERC-20 chain will charge users very expensive transaction fees.

Not all tokens have their smart contracts are built on Binance Smart Chain and have plans to make a hybrid contracts for ERC-20 chain and BSC chain. I would like to use centralized exchanges to trade tokens. Swap is a trend from DeFi and people don't realize that they lost many transaction fees from swaps.

If people want to use swaps, they can consider to choose BSC chain and tokens that support that chain in order to save fees. ERC-20 chain is not good at this time and we have to wait for good upgrades from ETH 2.0.

Huobi exchange creates their HECO chain but this chain needs more time to attract developers and users.
https://www.hecochain.com/en-us/

[pooya87]

Do both of these services have to comply with tax regulations and KYC? If not then can governments ban them or shut them down?

Right now none of them have any KYC but that doesn't mean it can't change. Most of "decentralized" exchanges (including those using Atomic Swaps) aren't completely decentralized. There are traces of centralization in their design. For instance when you are connecting to a "server" or when you have to pay a "trading fee" to some centralized authority these are a good indications of centralization. And when there is centralization, the government has a way of putting pressure on that centralized authority and force them into doing what is demanded of them. It could be KYC or any other invasion of privacy all the way to shutting them down.

[joniboini]

I won't be surprised if Pancake pull another "Binance DEX" move where they limit from where users can use the platform.

DEX is not the same as an atomic swap if you want strict terminology since most of the time you're interacting with assets on the same chain. An atomic swap is more expensive, at least in most platforms that I know. Even the third-party instant exchange platform is so expensive right now. CMIIW.

[cheezcarls]

If you care less about the exorbitant fees of Ethereum, you can go for atomic swaps like Uniswap, 1Inch, Sushiswap, etc. For me, as long the amount that I’ve exchange is way, way, way bigger than the fee itself, that would be fine. However, if you want to save some fees, go for the traditional CEXs or DEXs. But these atomic swaps would have large number of users and activity if ETH 2.0 is going to launch because of it’s proof-of-stake transition.

[very_452001]

Which atomic swap service is the best out there that allows you to sell your popular common crypto's for dai?

You can check the link below for first fifty decentralized exchanges, you can click on each to see the coins with the highest trading  volume, coin pairs, volume, price and volume percentage. PancakeSwap3 will be good for Dai swapping, but for bitcoin exchange, Bsiq will be the best as most of these exchanges are not supporting bitcoin.

Most of these exchanges are ethereum based, if you want the ones that are general, you can use Changelly (but some cases in the based in a way they demand for kyc), or CoinSwitch.

https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/dex/

Are decentralized exchanges same as atomic swaps?

Decentralized exchanges are the platforms. Atomic swap is the service decentralized exchanges are offering. Atomic swap is a smart contract that fulfills trades between two people without the need for any third party. Athough, the definition is not totally fulfilled by the exchanges that are providing such services but the true ones do make sure they are completely decentralized without requesting for KYC.

Do both of these services have to comply with tax regulations and KYC? If not then can governments ban them or shut them down?

This can be the fear that government may ban such services, but this has been impossible as they even seen significantly growth in 2020. They have nothing to do with tax as they are Decentralized.

Which is the best decentralized exchange out there?

Using the link above to check will be good. For bitcoin users, Bsiq will be preferred. For ethereum and its tokens, Uniswap, PancakeSwap and some others will be preferable. For Binance coin, Binance Dex and BurgerSwap will be preferred. For exchanging from one big coins to another like bitcoin, ethereum, tether, Dai, litec and many such coins, Changelly and CoinSwitch will be preferred.

Okay these DEX's are either using Ethereum chain or Binance Smart Chain correct? Binance chain will have the cheapest trading fees until Eth 2.0 comes out right?

Bisq is the only DEX available for selling bitcoin? Can you sell Btc for Dai on Bisq and does Bisq have good volume/liquidity? Is Localbitcoins.com decentralized like Bisq?

Do both Changelly & CoinSwitch both use KYC? I don't understand how can you comply with their KYC requirements if they freeze your coins when you haven't registered with them to begin with before using their services? How you comply with their KYC requirements when they don't even know your email address to notify you of them freezing your coins 

I see Mdex is no.1 ranked DEX, are they any good?

Binance Chain Dex has cheap fees, can you trade Eth tokens or Btc on there?

What is wrapped Btc and this is only used for Dex's?

I'm probably guessing that the Binance "DEX"[1] is the biggest? But yea, they're mostly more of non-custodial than "decentralized", because they're definitely not decentralized. "DEX" is unfortunately more of a marketing term. No KYC as far as I know though.

Following up next down the list, I'm pretty sure Uniswap[2] is the second biggest. Obviously, no BTC because everything will be ERC20 tokens, and take note that the gas fees on ETH are tremendous.

[1] https://binance.org/
[2] https://uniswap.org/

Sorry for the newbie question but I cant seem to see Binance Dex in the list below:
https://www.coingecko.com/en/dex

Can I trade erc20 tokens on the Binance chain to save on fees? Is there like a emulation or hybrid or virtual machine service for eth erc20 token on binance smart chain to save on gas fees or the only way in the future is Eth tokens/erc20 projects convert their coins/projects to native binance smart chain tokens if somehow Eth 2.0 launch is screwed up or delayed?

Wrapped bitcoin is erc20 bitcoin right?

Lastly what's the difference between 'non-custodial' service & decentralized exchange?

There are a list of exchanges here https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/dai#markets

Anyway, if you don't care about the high transaction fee(due to network congestion) you can try Uniswap or Sushiswap. Those exchanges are decentralized without KYC and I think they won't comply with the tax and they have the same charge fee of 0.3% trading fee.

Smart contracts on those Uniswap, Sushiswap, any swaps combine with the high transaction gas price on the ERC-20 chain will charge users very expensive transaction fees.

Not all tokens have their smart contracts are built on Binance Smart Chain and have plans to make a hybrid contracts for ERC-20 chain and BSC chain. I would like to use centralized exchanges to trade tokens. Swap is a trend from DeFi and people don't realize that they lost many transaction fees from swaps.

If people want to use swaps, they can consider to choose BSC chain and tokens that support that chain in order to save fees. ERC-20 chain is not good at this time and we have to wait for good upgrades from ETH 2.0.

Huobi exchange creates their HECO chain but this chain needs more time to attract developers and users.
https://www.hecochain.com/en-us/

Which coins are on the BSC chain or support it?

Eth 2.0 is two to three years away  , during this long wait BSC can flip Eth for no.2 market rank and Eth and all erc20 tokens can die off if this happens.


[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Charles-Tim]

<...>

I think I pasted a link above, most or nearly all your questions will not be asked if you have gone through it. You can use the link the know the coins and their trading pairs on exchange exchange listed. Binance dex is also included.

https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/dex/

Can I trade erc20 tokens on the Binance chain to save on fees?

No. Binance smart chain is entirely different, but there are wallets that make you to have access to Dex while some will support ERC-20 and some BSC together. But, you can not trade tokens on Ethereum platform with the ones on BSC and vice versa.

BSC comes with lower fee than ERC-20

Wrapped bitcoin is erc20 bitcoin right?

WBTC is ERC-20 not BSC, but it is possible to also be on BSC, but I do not know of recent. While using any exchange, you will be able to differentiate between ERC-20 tokens and BSC, which means it is not a problem.

About Changelly, it has email required, you will use it as a third-party on reputed noncustodial wallet, in this case, no email required than addresses.

[very_452001]

Do both of these services have to comply with tax regulations and KYC? If not then can governments ban them or shut them down?

Right now none of them have any KYC but that doesn't mean it can't change. Most of "decentralized" exchanges (including those using Atomic Swaps) aren't completely decentralized. There are traces of centralization in their design. For instance when you are connecting to a "server" or when you have to pay a "trading fee" to some centralized authority these are a good indications of centralization. And when there is centralization, the government has a way of putting pressure on that centralized authority and force them into doing what is demanded of them. It could be KYC or any other invasion of privacy all the way to shutting them down.

The day when DEX's introduce KYC will be the day when they dig their own graves as KYC defeats the purpose of DEX's.

When you say centralised points in the network like connect to server or paying fees to a 3rd party or middle man or miner then can these points freeze your crypto or confiscate it? Has there been known cases of this before?

Everybody knows Switzerland is a privacy friendly and tax friendly country.

Shall I assume all these DEX's are based in such friendly countries so friendly governments cant put pressure on them?

[zasad@]

I'm probably guessing that the Binance "DEX"[1] is the biggest? But yea, they're mostly more of non-custodial than "decentralized", because they're definitely not decentralized. "DEX" is unfortunately more of a marketing term. No KYC as far as I know though.

Following up next down the list, I'm pretty sure Uniswap[2] is the second biggest. Obviously, no BTC because everything will be ERC20 tokens, and take note that the gas fees on ETH are tremendous.

[1] https://binance.org/
[2] https://uniswap.org/

Sorry for the newbie question but I cant seem to see Binance Dex in the list below:
https://www.coingecko.com/en/dex

Can I trade erc20 tokens on the Binance chain to save on fees? Is there like a emulation or hybrid or virtual machine service for eth erc20 token on binance smart chain to save on gas fees or the only way in the future is Eth tokens/erc20 projects convert their coins/projects to native binance smart chain tokens if somehow Eth 2.0 launch is screwed up or delayed?

Wrapped bitcoin is erc20 bitcoin right?

If you are interested in bitcoins on the Ethereum network, then study my 2 topics

Decentralized Tokenized BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290331

Decentralized bitcoin trading
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290331

You carry out any interactions with the binance blockchain through this bridge.
https://www.binance.org/en/bridge
For me personally, Binance Chain is the same Binance, only without the KYC.
There are big problems with decentralization, but in terms of speed and commissions, it is better than Ethereum.

[very_452001]

I'm probably guessing that the Binance "DEX"[1] is the biggest? But yea, they're mostly more of non-custodial than "decentralized", because they're definitely not decentralized. "DEX" is unfortunately more of a marketing term. No KYC as far as I know though.

Following up next down the list, I'm pretty sure Uniswap[2] is the second biggest. Obviously, no BTC because everything will be ERC20 tokens, and take note that the gas fees on ETH are tremendous.

[1] https://binance.org/
[2] https://uniswap.org/

Sorry for the newbie question but I cant seem to see Binance Dex in the list below:
https://www.coingecko.com/en/dex

Can I trade erc20 tokens on the Binance chain to save on fees? Is there like a emulation or hybrid or virtual machine service for eth erc20 token on binance smart chain to save on gas fees or the only way in the future is Eth tokens/erc20 projects convert their coins/projects to native binance smart chain tokens if somehow Eth 2.0 launch is screwed up or delayed?

Wrapped bitcoin is erc20 bitcoin right?

If you are interested in bitcoins on the Ethereum network, then study my 2 topics

Decentralized Tokenized BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290331

Decentralized bitcoin trading
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290331

You carry out any interactions with the binance blockchain through this bridge.
https://www.binance.org/en/bridge
For me personally, Binance Chain is the same Binance, only without the KYC.
There are big problems with decentralization, but in terms of speed and commissions, it is better than Ethereum.

Lets say for example bitcoin hits 100k and I have 1 whole bitcoin to sell in a decentralize way.

How much would the gas fee be when I tokenize convert that 100k bitcoin, will the gas fee be high like 10k or something?

After tokenized conversion or wrapping up that 1 btc, then I have to pay gas fees again on the decentralize exchange if I sell it for stable coins? So how much much approx I will lose in fees when selling a 100k btc in a time when Eth network is busy?

Is there a video guide on how to do this on the BSC for cheap fees? Has there been known cases of BSC freezing your crypto because you say BSC is same as normal centralized Binance except KYC meaning BSC is not really decentralized right?

Lastly how does your way compared to Bisq, is it better, more liquidity and cheaper?

Is there a tokenized BSC bitcoin?


Another newbie question I have is can the fees on BSC become high like Eth gas fees now when Bsc network becomes congested like Eth now?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[GreatArkansas]

Another newbie question I have is can the fees on BSC become high like Eth gas fees now when Bsc network becomes congested like Eth now?

Yes, very possible. That's why there are lot of people are happy somewhat because of these kinds of alternative network for Ethereum, since it will help somehow to scale Ethereum as of the moment.
Validators which needed particular amount of BNB to be the one, they will rewarded by the transaction fee for securing the network itself.

[Bttzed03]

Another newbie question I have is can the fees on BSC become high like Eth gas fees now when Bsc network becomes congested like Eth now?

The volume on BSC is pretty high already and have exceeded ethereum's daily transaction at one point but the fees were not affected.

BSC has 21 nodes running right now which means it's more centralized than Ethereum. That also means they can control the fees. If you are going to scroll through CZ's twitter, you'll probably find a tweet that mentioned the number of times the transaction fees were reduced.

[pooya87]

Okay these DEX's are either using Ethereum chain or Binance Smart Chain correct? Binance chain will have the cheapest trading fees until Eth 2.0 comes out right?

But those that are built on top of Ethereum can not be called "DEX" because you can't really trade cryptocurrencies there. All those that I've seen are "token swaps" meaning you can swap a token built on ETH with a token that is built on ETH! You can't trader for example BTC/LTC there.
Binance is also mostly relying on their centralized platform so it is entirely different than any other DEX and I wouldn't call it DEX to begin with since it has limitations and centralization.

The day when DEX's introduce KYC will be the day when they dig their own graves as KYC defeats the purpose of DEX's.

It would be their death because they weren't decentralized to begin with.

When you say centralised points in the network like connect to server or paying fees to a 3rd party or middle man or miner then can these points freeze your crypto or confiscate it? Has there been known cases of this before?

Not that I know of.

Everybody knows Switzerland is a privacy friendly and tax friendly country.
Shall I assume all these DEX's are based in such friendly countries so friendly governments cant put pressure on them?

If you can say something is "based in somewhere" then it is not decentralized. Can you say bitcoin is based in anywhere? No, that is why bitcoin is decentralized.
A true DEX is 100% peer to peer and doesn't have any servers, no middle man and no company to based in any country. In a real DEX you simply find another peer and make your trade with them only paying network fees. A real DEX can never be shut down just like how they can't shut down torrent network or bitcoin, etc.

[very_452001]

Another newbie question I have is can the fees on BSC become high like Eth gas fees now when Bsc network becomes congested like Eth now?

The volume on BSC is pretty high already and have exceeded ethereum's daily transaction at one point but the fees were not affected.

BSC has 21 nodes running right now which means it's more centralized than Ethereum. That also means they can control the fees. If you are going to scroll through CZ's twitter, you'll probably find a tweet that mentioned the number of times the transaction fees were reduced.

Do you know how many nodes Ethereum has and is it the matter of the more nodes there's is in a network the more decentralize it is?

BitTorrent P2P network has millions of global users connected to each other. Can we say everyday torrent users that are just downloading the latest movies are nodes of the torrent network?

Lastly do you know if BSC in the future plan to increase the node count to more than 21? Because 21 nodes is too low and can be easily taken over by hackers or government because its a small amount to take over the network.

[very_452001]

Okay these DEX's are either using Ethereum chain or Binance Smart Chain correct? Binance chain will have the cheapest trading fees until Eth 2.0 comes out right?

But those that are built on top of Ethereum can not be called "DEX" because you can't really trade cryptocurrencies there. All those that I've seen are "token swaps" meaning you can swap a token built on ETH with a token that is built on ETH! You can't trader for example BTC/LTC there.
Binance is also mostly relying on their centralized platform so it is entirely different than any other DEX and I wouldn't call it DEX to begin with since it has limitations and centralization.

The day when DEX's introduce KYC will be the day when they dig their own graves as KYC defeats the purpose of DEX's.

It would be their death because they weren't decentralized to begin with.

When you say centralised points in the network like connect to server or paying fees to a 3rd party or middle man or miner then can these points freeze your crypto or confiscate it? Has there been known cases of this before?

Not that I know of.

Everybody knows Switzerland is a privacy friendly and tax friendly country.
Shall I assume all these DEX's are based in such friendly countries so friendly governments cant put pressure on them?

If you can say something is "based in somewhere" then it is not decentralized. Can you say bitcoin is based in anywhere? No, that is why bitcoin is decentralized.
A true DEX is 100% peer to peer and doesn't have any servers, no middle man and no company to based in any country. In a real DEX you simply find another peer and make your trade with them only paying network fees. A real DEX can never be shut down just like how they can't shut down torrent network or bitcoin, etc.

When you say paying network fees, do you mean paying to the miners?

Isn't most of bitcoin #hashrate, over 50% of it is based in China that is not globally equally shared. From your argument that means bitcoin is not truly decentralized right because the Chinese communist government can take over the mining farms there correct and do a 51% attack against the Bitcoin network?

[hulla]

Which atomic swap service is the best out there that allows you to sell your popular common crypto's for dai?

Are decentralized exchanges same as atomic swaps?

Decentralized exchange out there are totally not the same as atomic swap/Binance Dex cause DEX exchange allow people to perform exchange of crypto currency without surrender the control of crypto to any exchange or swap service provider which is not what atomic swap executes.

Do both of these services have to comply with tax regulations and KYC? If not then can governments ban them or shut them down?

No, they (genuine decentralized exchange) operate independently.

Which is the best decentralized exchange out there?

Uniswap
Mdex
Pancakeswap
Vitex
You can check coingecko for there list