Mining rig cases with separate hot and cold air flow

[arielbit]

so pull the unit and debug it at a bench. this has been the traditional method of working on large scale cluster deployments for decades, why do it any differently for mining?  Commie's example is the ideal way of running a large group of mining rigs.

because pulling the unit with two PSU and (insert the number of GPUs) is a job for two people hehe.

besides pulling out and putting back in is a waste of time. look at what i said above, i fixed my hanging rig faster than you can pull that bar bell from a rack LOL.

Wrong. Hint: rails. It has rails.   Then it's just a matter of few screws and top cover.

So you pull it out like a drawer. Then screws? Screw that. It maybe lighter with rails but it is a waste of time.

How about a rack with rails? You pull the whole rack to troubleshoot and push it back(column of racks) to the air pathway(vent)

A rack with rails is better than a drawer with rails hehe

I'm a bit lost now. A rack is shown on the first picture, what's the point of pulling it (yes you can, it has wheels)? Or do you mean something else?
This is a classic server room setup, each rig equals to a server. Sure if you only have 4-5 rigs you don't need a rack, just use separate cases or hang them to the wall if you wish LOL  But when you run dozens of rigs then it's completely different picture.  Container setups for 500+cards/250+ asics with hot/cold zones, monitoring systems, security etc are in the market for a reason.

It is a closed rack, that' why i called it drawers, if you want to mine in drawers in the tropics then go ahead hehe

What i mean by racks is open air racks...just google and youtube big gpu farms, they don't mine in drawers with fans.....aaaand they are not in the tropics 

[Commie]

so pull the unit and debug it at a bench. this has been the traditional method of working on large scale cluster deployments for decades, why do it any differently for mining?  Commie's example is the ideal way of running a large group of mining rigs.

because pulling the unit with two PSU and (insert the number of GPUs) is a job for two people hehe.

besides pulling out and putting back in is a waste of time. look at what i said above, i fixed my hanging rig faster than you can pull that bar bell from a rack LOL.

Wrong. Hint: rails. It has rails.   Then it's just a matter of few screws and top cover.

So you pull it out like a drawer. Then screws? Screw that. It maybe lighter with rails but it is a waste of time.

How about a rack with rails? You pull the whole rack to troubleshoot and push it back(column of racks) to the air pathway(vent)

A rack with rails is better than a drawer with rails hehe

I'm a bit lost now. A rack is shown on the first picture, what's the point of pulling it (yes you can, it has wheels)? Or do you mean something else?
This is a classic server room setup, each rig equals to a server. Sure if you only have 4-5 rigs you don't need a rack, just use separate cases or hang them to the wall if you wish LOL  But when you run dozens of rigs then it's completely different picture.  Container setups for 500+cards/250+ asics with hot/cold zones, monitoring systems, security etc are in the market for a reason.

It is a closed rack, that' why i called it drawers, if you want to mine in drawers in the tropics then go ahead hehe

What i mean by racks is open air racks...just google and youtube big gpu farms, they don't mine in drawers with fans.....aaaand they are not in the tropics 

Sure card cover panels can be removed and it won't affect the efficiency, but then it might cause additional problems with zoning (indoors) or dust (outdoors). In any case if I decide to go ahead and get one for myself I will test various configs and decide what's best for me.
Anyway, reading a real use case report right now, guys switched from classic rig setup to these cases about a year ago, managing to install 275 8 card rigs (2200 cards) on 70sq.m, 40% more efficient space use. Just getting rid of GPU and extra rig fans alone gave them 33.66Kw/h of extra power, saving almost $15000 annually. Cooling air volume for the room was reduced more than 3 times allowing use of less powerful equipment, hot air extraction system consumes only 8Kw during hot summer months, intake air temperature 30C, cards temperature 55C.
Pretty impressive I'd say!

[arielbit]

so pull the unit and debug it at a bench. this has been the traditional method of working on large scale cluster deployments for decades, why do it any differently for mining?  Commie's example is the ideal way of running a large group of mining rigs.

because pulling the unit with two PSU and (insert the number of GPUs) is a job for two people hehe.

besides pulling out and putting back in is a waste of time. look at what i said above, i fixed my hanging rig faster than you can pull that bar bell from a rack LOL.

Wrong. Hint: rails. It has rails.   Then it's just a matter of few screws and top cover.

So you pull it out like a drawer. Then screws? Screw that. It maybe lighter with rails but it is a waste of time.

How about a rack with rails? You pull the whole rack to troubleshoot and push it back(column of racks) to the air pathway(vent)

A rack with rails is better than a drawer with rails hehe

I'm a bit lost now. A rack is shown on the first picture, what's the point of pulling it (yes you can, it has wheels)? Or do you mean something else?
This is a classic server room setup, each rig equals to a server. Sure if you only have 4-5 rigs you don't need a rack, just use separate cases or hang them to the wall if you wish LOL  But when you run dozens of rigs then it's completely different picture.  Container setups for 500+cards/250+ asics with hot/cold zones, monitoring systems, security etc are in the market for a reason.

It is a closed rack, that' why i called it drawers, if you want to mine in drawers in the tropics then go ahead hehe

What i mean by racks is open air racks...just google and youtube big gpu farms, they don't mine in drawers with fans.....aaaand they are not in the tropics  

Sure card cover panels can be removed and it won't affect the efficiency, but then it might cause additional problems with zoning (indoors) or dust (outdoors). In any case if I decide to go ahead and get one for myself I will test various configs and decide what's best for me.
Anyway, reading a real use case report right now, guys switched from classic rig setup to these cases about a year ago, managing to install 275 8 card rigs (2200 cards) on 70sq.m, 40% more efficient space use. Just getting rid of GPU and extra rig fans alone gave them 33.66Kw/h of extra power, saving almost $15000 annually. Cooling air volume for the room was reduced more than 3 times allowing use of less powerful equipment, hot air extraction system consumes only 8Kw during hot summer months, intake air temperature 30C, cards temperature 55C.
Pretty impressive I'd say!

You remove the gpu fans to save energy but run fans in those drawers? That is not savings, that is load transfer

They may cram 2200 cards in 70sqm but they can't cram heat, a kw power consumed is directly proportional to heat produced whatever the shape/arragement and form those rigs are...they have to compensate with airflow.

Airflow is electricity. That is not savings.

If real estate is cheaper (rent, you already own it) than electricity, then that is not savings.

If i have a 1000sqm and i have those 2200 gpus spread out, i don't even need an exhaust fan, just some windows open and gpu fans running at 30% speed LOL.

[Commie]

so pull the unit and debug it at a bench. this has been the traditional method of working on large scale cluster deployments for decades, why do it any differently for mining?  Commie's example is the ideal way of running a large group of mining rigs.

because pulling the unit with two PSU and (insert the number of GPUs) is a job for two people hehe.

besides pulling out and putting back in is a waste of time. look at what i said above, i fixed my hanging rig faster than you can pull that bar bell from a rack LOL.

Wrong. Hint: rails. It has rails.   Then it's just a matter of few screws and top cover.

So you pull it out like a drawer. Then screws? Screw that. It maybe lighter with rails but it is a waste of time.

How about a rack with rails? You pull the whole rack to troubleshoot and push it back(column of racks) to the air pathway(vent)

A rack with rails is better than a drawer with rails hehe

I'm a bit lost now. A rack is shown on the first picture, what's the point of pulling it (yes you can, it has wheels)? Or do you mean something else?
This is a classic server room setup, each rig equals to a server. Sure if you only have 4-5 rigs you don't need a rack, just use separate cases or hang them to the wall if you wish LOL  But when you run dozens of rigs then it's completely different picture.  Container setups for 500+cards/250+ asics with hot/cold zones, monitoring systems, security etc are in the market for a reason.

It is a closed rack, that' why i called it drawers, if you want to mine in drawers in the tropics then go ahead hehe

What i mean by racks is open air racks...just google and youtube big gpu farms, they don't mine in drawers with fans.....aaaand they are not in the tropics  

Sure card cover panels can be removed and it won't affect the efficiency, but then it might cause additional problems with zoning (indoors) or dust (outdoors). In any case if I decide to go ahead and get one for myself I will test various configs and decide what's best for me.
Anyway, reading a real use case report right now, guys switched from classic rig setup to these cases about a year ago, managing to install 275 8 card rigs (2200 cards) on 70sq.m, 40% more efficient space use. Just getting rid of GPU and extra rig fans alone gave them 33.66Kw/h of extra power, saving almost $15000 annually. Cooling air volume for the room was reduced more than 3 times allowing use of less powerful equipment, hot air extraction system consumes only 8Kw during hot summer months, intake air temperature 30C, cards temperature 55C.
Pretty impressive I'd say!

You remove the gpu fans to save energy but run fans in those drawers? That is not savings, that is load transfer

They may cram 2200 cards in 70sqm but they can't cram heat, a kw power consumed is directly proportional to heat produced whatever the shape/arragement and form those rigs are...they have to compensate with airflow.

Airflow is electricity. That is not savings.

If real estate is cheaper (rent, you already own it) than electricity, then that is not savings.

If i have a 1000sqm and i have those 2200 gpus spread out, i don't even need an exhaust fan, just some windows open and gpu fans running at 30% speed LOL.

And if I have a stadium I wouldn't need to mine at all. Well, maybe just a bit, for purely recreational purposes, LOL.

Anyway, I'll quote the original text below. It's not in English but we have Google Translate, so read yourself if you want and draw your own conclusions. I already made mine.

=========quote starts==============
C иcпoльзoвaниeм кopпyca CoolBOX Evolution мы paзмecтили 275 pигoв пo 8 кapт нa плoщaди 70 м². Bceгo 2200 видeoкapт MSI P104-100.

Пpoдyв pигa. Бeз CoolBOX pиги нa этиx жe кapтax coбиpaлиcь нa кapкacax. Кaждaя кapтa coдepжит двa вeнтилятopa мoщнocтью пo 0.4 A кaждый. Taкжe для oxлaждeния кaждoгo pигa были дoпoлнитeльнo ycтaнoвлeны 6 кopпycныx вeнтилятopoв пo 0.8 A. Cчитaeм пoтpeблeниe pигa нa кapкace: 0.4 A * 12 v * 16шт = 76.8 Bт*ч. Coбcтвeнныe вeнтилятopы кapт. Плюc дoпoлнитeльныe вeнтилятopы 0.8 A * 12 v * 6 шт = 57.6 Bт*ч. Итoгo пoтpeблeниe cиcтeмы oxлaждeния pигa нa кapкace 76.8 + 57.6 = 134.4 Bт*ч. Умнoжaeм нa кoличecтвo pигoв 275 = 36,96 кBт*ч. B кopпyce CoolBOX Evolution вeнтилятopы кapт yдaлeны, в кopпyc ycтaнoвлeны вeнтилятopы Delta, кoтopыe paбoтaют нa минимaльныx oбopoтax. Toк пoтpeблeния вcex вeнтилятopoв в кopпyce 1 A. 1 A * 12 = 12 Bт*ч. Умнoжaeм нa 275 кopпycoв = 3.3 кBт*ч. Экoнoмия бoлee чeм в 10 paз. 33,66 кBт*ч ocвoбoдившeйcя мoщнocти в peзyльтaтe иcпoльзoвaния CoolBOX были нaпpaвлeны в мaйнинг. B гoд экoнoмия нa элeктpoэнepгии cocтaвит 294.86 MBт*чac, чтo пpи цeнe 5 цeнтoв зa кBт = 14,743 тыc.дoлл.

Beнтиляция. Pacxoд вoздyxa нa пpитoк-oттoк yмeньшeн кaк минимyм в 3 paзa. Этo дaeт нaм yмeньшeниe ceчeния вeнтиляциoнныx кaнaлoв, a тaкжe двyкpaтнoe coкpaщeниe мoщнocти oceвыx вeнтилятopoв. Пoтpeблeниe вытяжки ЛETOM нa вecь oбъeкт мoщнocтью oкoлo 350 кBт вceгo 8 кBт, тeмпepaтypa кapт 55℃, вxoдящий вoздyx +30℃!
Для вeнтиляции лeтoм фepмы тaкoй жe мoщнocти coбpaннoй нa кapкacax или в дpyгиx кopпycax нeoбxoдимo былo бы кaк минимyм 16 кBт oceвыx вeнтилятopoв. Пpи этoм тeмпepaтypa нa кapтax былa бы 65-70℃.
Cтaбильнaя кpyглoгoдичнaя экoнoмия нa вeнтиляции cocтaвляeт oкoлo 8 кBт*ч, или 70 тыc кBт*ч зa гoд. Пpи цeнe 5 цeнтoв зa кBт этo 3500 дoлл в гoд. Плюc нaдo пoкyпaть мeньшe oбopyдoвaния.

Экoнoмия мecтa.Плoтнocть paзмeщeния кapт в пoмeщeнии c пoмoщью CoolBOX Evolution нa 40% вышe, чeм пpи paзмeщeнии нa кapкacax. Этo дaeт экoнoмию в oплaтe плoщaдeй, oблeгчaeт пoиcк пoдxoдящeгo пoмeщeния, a тaкжe пoзвoляeт нa 40% нapacтить мoщнocти в yжe иcпoльзyeмoм пoмeщeнии. B cпeциaлизиpoвaннoм для кoнтeйнepoв кopпyce CoolBOX Revolution плoтнocть paзмeщeния видeoкapт eщe бoльшe.

[arielbit]

16kw of airflow in summer and 8kw for the rest of the year.

Russian language?....they might be located in russia and russia is not in the tropics-climate, temperature is different. That is why they can remove gpu fans and the drawer fans can still compensate because the area where those many drawers are located is cooler than the tropics.

For me, i still prefer space as heat dissipating element or a huge part of cooling element as a whole....if circumstances allow.

The smaller the space, the stronger the fan-air flow.

But if you have a small space and strong fans... then sound-wise you are way outside your territory, i mean the noise from those fans will go several meters beyond those 70sqm.

If you are in a remote area with the luxury of space, where nobody lives, why cram and spend more on airflow?

There i have my conclusion.  

[Commie]

16kw of airflow in summer and 8kw for the rest of the year.

It clearly says 8kw in summer

Russian language?....they might be located in russia and russia is not in the tropics-climate, temperature is different.

Russia is huge, who knows where they are. But 30C during summer months gives us a hint. Sure it's not tropics but then I'm not comparing. Having that said, it's 7AM now at my place and temperature is around 27C. Will be much hotter in the daytime, of course.

[arielbit]

16kw of airflow in summer and 8kw for the rest of the year.

It clearly says 8kw in summer

Russian language?....they might be located in russia and russia is not in the tropics-climate, temperature is different.

Russia is huge, who knows where they are. But 30C during summer months gives us a hint. Sure it's not tropics but then I'm not comparing. Having that said, it's 7AM now at my place and temperature is around 27C. Will be much hotter in the daytime, of course.

There is a mention of 16kw..anyway summer in thailand can reach 40c, therefore those cards are going to reach 80c (from 70c comparison)...that's a p104-100, a cheap mediocre low power card at 80c, imagine those are 3080's it will probably reach 90+c in there. Those will not be your mining drawers, those are mining ovens LOL

As i said before, you are already mission critical at 80c, a fan failing might damage electronics, at least in russia they have a 10c allowance if a fan fails the rig will be fine.

[Commie]

There is a mention of 16kw..anyway summer in thailand can reach 40c, therefore those cards are going to reach 80c (from 70c comparison)...that's a p104-100, a cheap mediocre low power card, at 80c, imagine those are 3080's it will probably reach 90+c in there. Those will not be your mining drawers, those are mining ovens LOL

<offtopic>
 Just a suggestion, helps me a lot when I read texts in other languages: Google Translate plugin, VERY useful.
</offtopic>

Try it and see what they say about 16kw 

I'm not that far from TH and in the same climate. My 3080's are running ~90C mem junction during daytime in classic rigs. Thermal pads were replaced, of course. This is exactly the reason I started this research in the first place. If I can lower my cards temps by 5-10C it will be great. Another option is watercooling but I don't want to go that way.

[astraleureka]

I stuck 20 kW of ASICs in a single 48U rack without any special framing or panels, and it was fine - average temp per machine was around 50C. if you're trying to go for density then rackmount is the best solution...

[arielbit]

well i made my point, i don't see the need to debate around the cost of ventilation.

it is nice to be engineering on some stuff but the world has more to offer sometimes.

maybe talking to a friend or a relative or just inquire outside/go warehouse hunting will find you a warehouse, those zip ties and racks are just in the dept. store sitting there waiting for you.

time is of the essence, the bear market can hit you faster than you can deploy..procuring things that aren't available around you, designing and maybe manufacturing those drawers will just cost you your valuable time.

having a trader's heart is also better than being technical on stuff sometimes, like investing in GPU's before the bullrun (before everybody is buying GPUs) and looking for a space to expand before the bullrun.

[fmz89]

I've searched the forum but there's almost zero information about those. Does anyone have experience using ColdCase, Donnager, CoolBox or analogs? I live in tropics so keeping my cards both cool and dust/insects free is my target. With open rigs I have to weekly remove spider nets, dust, sand etc.

l live in tropics to, but keep from sand never heard of it  , youre really in island middle of jungle or something? open case is easy for troubleshouting if something happen

i mean if your place lot of insect well there is no choice using non riser motherboard with closed case box, with dozen of fan, and make really noisy

[arielbit]

I've searched the forum but there's almost zero information about those. Does anyone have experience using ColdCase, Donnager, CoolBox or analogs? I live in tropics so keeping my cards both cool and dust/insects free is my target. With open rigs I have to weekly remove spider nets, dust, sand etc.

l live in tropics to, but keep from sand never heard of it  , youre really in island middle of jungle or something? open case is easy for troubleshouting if something happen

i mean if your place lot of insect well there is no choice using non riser motherboard with closed case box, with dozen of fan, and make really noisy

sand?? near a beach, i would worry more about the salinity of air being corrosive to metal components of electronics

for insects, just cover the setup with mosquito net, or make an encasing for the whole rigs with screen (holes are small enough to repel insects)


as for compacting i will be more thrilled with watercooling design, this is more compact.(but of course application will be in the next market cycle-if successful LOL)

- 3d printer tech-good enough for gpu heatsink application??
- copper pipes
- sumps pumps/circulation pumps
- reservoir?
- a truck radiator (30 gpus per radiator?)

side quest(piping).. can make you a home water heater for hot-cold shower, warm water laundry, a warm plate for tea kettle rest etc..