Vossbot Bitcoin Escrow

[m4acker]

Hello all,

I created a bitcoin escrow service for anyone to use. 0.5% fee and only requires an email address from each party.

https://vossbot.com/escrow

My inspiration came from telegram, I was sick of seeing people fall for scams where the scammer tricks a user into thinking they are using a safe/reputable escrow service.. but actually they are both in on it. Sad to see.

I set it so the buyer can "dispute" the transactions and request a % refund from the seller (if for example some stuff was damaged in shipping?). So disputes can be resolved between yourselves!
The seller, when paying out, can also pick the miner fee the payout will use. It looks pretty basic but functions very well.  

Anyway, hopefully this service can beneift some people!

You can get me at mack@vossbot.com or perhaps on telegram https://t.me/L00015.

[1715605571]

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[1715605571]

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[1715605571]

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[AB de Royse777]

I

Why would anyone trust you with their money?

I suggest having a x/y multisig wallet and get few users from the forum on board with you. So to release a tx you will need more than one signature and the risk is less for the buyers and sellers.

[m4acker]

I

Why would anyone trust you with their money?

I suggest having a x/y multisig wallet and get few users from the forum on board with you. So to release a tx you will need more than one signature and the risk is less for the buyers and sellers.

Valid point, thanks. Testemonies would be valuable (need to have users first lol) but I guess I could share the php source code after I strip it of wallet info?

Also, I do own the domain so my personal info including address are on record with godaddy..

And happy to video call over telegram or whatever if someone wants to know the face behind the website!  

I'll look into this multisig idea for reputation, i wanted to be personally involved in transactions as little as possible (because I need to work!) but will research the idea.

[PrimeNumber7]

I

Why would anyone trust you with their money?

I suggest having a x/y multisig wallet and get few users from the forum on board with you. So to release a tx you will need more than one signature and the risk is less for the buyers and sellers.

A 2-of-3 multisig escrow address with a hypothetical malicious escrow agent could conspire with one of the parties of the transaction to steal the coin in the escrow address.

I am not saying the OP is acting maliciously, however, based on his current reputation, it would be difficult for an experienced forum member to use the OP as an escrow agent.

[AB de Royse777]

A 2-of-3 multisig escrow address with a hypothetical malicious escrow agent could conspire with one of the parties of the transaction to steal the coin in the escrow address.

I am not saying the OP is acting maliciously, however, based on his current reputation, it would be difficult for an experienced forum member to use the OP as an escrow agent.

Here is my idea -
OP can have two trusted user from this forum. Both these users will hold a key each and OP will have another key. If this is a 2/3 MultiSig then OP can not move the fund without another signature from one of these two users. For every transaction he needs one of them.

Obviously OP and other two users will need to be public (not necessarily to have their personal information in public) about their involvement in the project, and they will negotiate how much they want from the business.

I'll look into this multisig idea for reputation, i wanted to be personally involved in transactions as little as possible (because I need to work!) but will research the idea.

Without having enough trading history and good volume of the trade amount, I do not think anyone will entrust you as an escrow. In fact, you may even receive negative feedback as warning from the members of the community if you attempt to do such a deal without showing enough credibility.

Edit:

hypothetical malicious escrow agent

I see your point now. It's possible of course. Maybe not a 2/3 but another format which is safer enough?

[m4acker]

I'll look into this multisig idea for reputation, i wanted to be personally involved in transactions as little as possible (because I need to work!) but will research the idea.

Without having enough trading history and good volume of the trade amount, I do not think anyone will entrust you as an escrow. In fact, you may even receive negative feedback as warning from the members of the community if you attempt to do such a deal without showing enough credibility.

That does make sense, a bit shitty but understandable. The fastest way I can think of to become trustworthy is to have personal info on file somewhere.

On Telegram's ASIC Hardware market, the admins use a verification process (with government IDs and video, basically standard KYC) to hold sellers accountable and filter ourt scammers.
Does the forum do something similar? I'd be happy to dox myself to a trustworthy 3rd party for earning the forum's trust.

The multisig method you suggest would be fine but 1. I would need to re-work the logic on the website (not a massive deal) and 2. the service would need to rely on humans to complete transactions. I guess i COULD generate some sort of "One Time" clickable link hash to send out to all multisig partners that woul trigger payout at the correct time.....
Ideally... I want the Buyer and Seller to be able to open and close an Escrow deal without any other party influence required. So far that is the way the system works.

[suchmoon]

On Telegram's ASIC Hardware market, the admins use a verification process (with government IDs and video, basically standard KYC) to hold sellers accountable and filter ourt scammers.
Does the forum do something similar? I'd be happy to dox myself to a trustworthy 3rd party for earning the forum's trust.

No. Dox doesn't prove shit. We are not equipped to handle KYC, keep private information secure, or recognize fake documents.

And bringing up Telegram as an example of something trustworthy is not going to go over well. You should probably stay over there.

[m4acker]

On Telegram's ASIC Hardware market, the admins use a verification process (with government IDs and video, basically standard KYC) to hold sellers accountable and filter ourt scammers.
Does the forum do something similar? I'd be happy to dox myself to a trustworthy 3rd party for earning the forum's trust.

No. Dox doesn't prove shit. We are not equipped to handle KYC, keep private information secure, or recognize fake documents.

And bringing up Telegram as an example of something trustworthy is not going to go over well. You should probably stay over there.

Telegram is saturated with scammers, true but if you heard of @hardwaremarket and @mpverify groups you would understand what I mean, their verification system for ASIC sellers makes it virtually impossible to get scammed and I am confident the admins and brains behind the system (Joe cryptech and Saveli) are long time bitcointalk members. They "were not equipped to handle KYC" but they made it work by charging people a small fee to become verified. People pay to hand over goverment docs etc.

Anyway, the response to "newbie" grade users I am seeing here is unanimously negative, it is tough going. It took me an enormous effort to prove that an ASIC Seller website was legitamite back in 2019. I'll quit trying and perhaps come back when I have come up with a way to reassure I am not trying to screw anyone over.

[suchmoon]

Anyway, the response to "newbie" grade users I am seeing here is unanimously negative, it is tough going. It took me an enormous effort to prove that an ASIC Seller website was legitamite back in 2019. I'll quit trying and perhaps come back when I have come up with a way to reassure I am not trying to screw anyone over.

Since you already have experience of this kind it's even more puzzling why you'd think that offering escrow services as a noob would work here.

This is a discussion forum. It's a very slow process to build up trust here so if you're looking to jump straight to selling trinkets and services you're probably better off on Amazon/eBay/Facebook, and if you're looking to scam - on Telegram. Otherwise stick around, get to know the place and the people and what they really enjoy and appreciate and you may be able to find a tiny niche for a tiny business.

[m4acker]

Anyway, the response to "newbie" grade users I am seeing here is unanimously negative, it is tough going. It took me an enormous effort to prove that an ASIC Seller website was legitamite back in 2019. I'll quit trying and perhaps come back when I have come up with a way to reassure I am not trying to screw anyone over.

Since you already have experience of this kind it's even more puzzling why you'd think that offering escrow services as a noob would work here.

Guess it is pretty naive to have a service trusted out the blue. I'll stick around and make it work evenutally. I plan on making more services. Working on free access to futures trader bots and improving the UI for the free spot trader bot I already have live. 

[LoyceV]

The fastest way I can think of to become trustworthy is to have personal info on file somewhere.

Personal info doesn't mean much to a global community with magic internet money. Even if I know who and where you are, it will be very hard to use legal means to get back money if you scam. And after all that hassle, the collected evidence may not even be enough to convince a court.

Apart from the whole trust-part, there's another problem: how will you decide who's right and who's wrong if the buyer claims to have received a brick instead of the ordered items? A proper escrow would personally inspect the items before forwarding the package to the buyer.

I've read a general rule about acting as escrow, and I like it: don't offer it until many people have asked you to escrow for them.

[m4acker]

The fastest way I can think of to become trustworthy is to have personal info on file somewhere.

Personal info doesn't mean much to a global community with magic internet money. Even if I know who and where you are, it will be very hard to use legal means to get back money if you scam. And after all that hassle, the collected evidence may not even be enough to convince a court.

Apart from the whole trust-part, there's another problem: how will you decide who's right and who's wrong if the buyer claims to have received a brick instead of the ordered items? A proper escrow would personally inspect the items before forwarding the package to the buyer.

I've read a general rule about acting as escrow, and I like it: don't offer it until many people have asked you to escrow for them.

Yeah if hard earned "trust" is the only way to convince folks of a genuine / non-scam agenda then i'll just keep working on that.

In a dispute, I planned to act just like any other resolution process would and review evidence.
Buyer claims a bricks were shipped - What is the weight of box of bricks and does that match the courier/shipping records? How does the seller respond when asked to prove bricks were not shipped?

All this feedback is useful.. Not an issue if no one uses the service, at least I learned a lot about integrating web requests/btc rpc from setting it up and testing it 

[PrimeNumber7]

A 2-of-3 multisig escrow address with a hypothetical malicious escrow agent could conspire with one of the parties of the transaction to steal the coin in the escrow address.

I am not saying the OP is acting maliciously, however, based on his current reputation, it would be difficult for an experienced forum member to use the OP as an escrow agent.

Here is my idea -
OP can have two trusted user from this forum. Both these users will hold a key each and OP will have another key. If this is a 2/3 MultiSig then OP can not move the fund without another signature from one of these two users. For every transaction he needs one of them.

Obviously OP and other two users will need to be public (not necessarily to have their personal information in public) about their involvement in the project, and they will negotiate how much they want from the business.

I don't see why the two "trusted" forum members would be willing to participate in this setup. If the OP turns out to be a scammer, their reputations would suffer, and they will have to perform work for less money than if they were offering escrow services on their own.

I also feel like this would be something that might allow someone to accumulate trust ratings when they had no opportunity to steal from any other user, and played a small role in the transaction.

[LoyceV]

In a dispute, I planned to act just like any other resolution process would and review evidence.
Buyer claims a bricks were shipped - What is the weight of box of bricks and does that match the courier/shipping records? How does the seller respond when asked to prove bricks were not shipped?

A smart "brick shipper" would of course make the weight of the bricks match the weight of the item they sold. My point is: you can't really only escrow the financial side of a deal, you need to check both ends.

[AB de Royse777]

I don't see why the two "trusted" forum members would be willing to participate in this setup. If the OP turns out to be a scammer, their reputations would suffer, and they will have to perform work for less money than if they were offering escrow services on their own.

Maybe money (service fees) will motivate them or there will be no reason for anyone to volunteer for some business.

I have anther idea - maybe m4acker can escrow a large amount of money (x) to a trusted escrow on the forum. His website will have a program which will show live statistics of how much money the site is escrowing (y). There will be a cap for y, and always it will be y< x

Website users will have a tool to verify the total amount too (not sure how it will be done). If something unexpected happens from the OPs side then forum escrow will pay the clients.

I don't know maybe it sounds complex but at-least this could help in this situation and OP will not need to reprogram his site.