Your pots of money and thinking long term / retirement / life after retirement

[paxmao]

If you are not "rich", that is, you work hard for money a manage to save just some, perhaps nothing from month to month, you should be thinking about how to make sure you can live when old without being a burden for you family or having financial difficulties. If you holdled bitcoin since 10 years ago, you do not need to read any further, just enjoy. For the rest, here are some planning tips.

This is particularly important for Millenials (see graph below), as the rates of return for savings and investments are thought to be in decline.

However, you also want to life a good life - there is only one (unless you are Buddhist) - and you probably want to do things that require money. Striking a balance between these two is a little bit of an art.

How much do you need to saver? Too difficult to say in general. Some speakers and authors will tell you that it should be around 10% of your income, but if you earn little you may not be able to or if you want to retire very early you may need to do some extra effort.

 First thing to be clear, you can separate into bags or pots but in reality all your money is the same. Just use this as mind tool.

b) Decide what is the bare minimun you will need each month or year to retire having the basics: a roof over your head, food in the plate and medical care. This is your retirement minimum bag.

- Figure out how much capital (savings) you would need to obtain that monthly income. (e.g. you need 500 USD and you count on having your house paid). That x12 is what you need in a year (e.g. 12000).

- You should count on getting around 4% of your saving as dividend or rental income. To produce 6000 a year that is: 150.000 USD (that's 6000 / .04). That is your bare survival minimum, so you have to save and invest enough to make sure you have it by the time you think you will retire. Savings and investments for that pot have to be super low risk while allowing you to reach that figure. You may think that you will get a pension and that will take care, but I advise you not to count on that. Just make sure you do not depend on someone else for food.

b) Decide what would be a good level of income that would grant you some travelling, leisure or whatever you would like. Let's say that is 1000 a month on top of you bare minimum. That is you wish bag. You can count for this on pension or other income, just halve what you think would be reasonable (e.g. you expect a state or private pension of 1000 per month, count only with 500).

Now you have to figure out how much you would need for that. Again, at 4% would be (12 month x 1000 = 12.000 a year, so capital should be 12.000 / .04 = 300.000 USD. This may seem like quite a bit of money (it is very personal anyway, people have different incomes).

Since you know your goal, you would now setup your saving strategy, but this time you can take part in more risky (yet higher reward) investments. This should help you reach that apparently high figure if you start saving when young.

c) You moon-shot: If you still are able to save more after your two first bags, you can now have your moonshot bag. You can choose any ammount here, and you will invest this in high risk / high paying investments (e.g. crypto). If this goes well, you will retire early and or rich.

All this requires talking about different investment styles and methods. If there is some interest I will later continue the post with ideas on that.

Just as a hint for Millenials:

What to expect from the typical S&P 500 index fund. Current CAPE is high, meaning that standard returns will not be great during the next 10 years (probably)

20 year investments across different decades:

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[cabron]

For someone like me who doesn't have any idea about these S&P 500 index funds or the CAPE, I will likely just go stick with option (C) crypto products like the KCS token that will provide dividends or the Casino tokens that distribute coins as well. They are like providing dividends still, there are more projects like these.

Retiring in the US is pretty much different from other countries, the elderly will somehow just end up in retirement homes which is like a prison for the aged. Will like to buy a house with a little farm or near the shore and then get busy there, probably share it with the elderly if they are willing.

[ethereumhunter]

Most people do not think about how long they need to work hard or retire or how they live after retirement. They still work hard, no matter how long they need because they work hard because of their family and their kids.

People are trying to prepare their future by saving some amount of money every month in the bank. We are so lucky because of knowing crypto, so we can saving money in investing in crypto, so hopefully, we will make a big profit in the future.

Retiring from what we did and enjoying our life will be another part of our lives that all people will get, so I hope we can all have a plan for our future.

[davis196]

I'm not that long term thinking and I can't plan 30-40 years ahead.I actually don't care...
There are way too many "what ifs".What if I lose my job/income source,so I can't save enough money?
What if the stock market crashes?What if the bank,in which I'm saving my money goes bankrupt?
What if cryptocurrencies got globally banned and the crypto prices went down up to 10 times?
Anyways,your plan is about earning USD and having a US salary.I live in a poor country and the salaries can't be compared to the average US salary.

[hugeblack]

Your words are correct, but I am against the philosophy that says that you must work hard and save some money, and with the passage of several years, you will have enough money to become rich.

The best solution is to keep your expenses low and upgrade your financial intelligence, as it is the only one that gives you access to financial freedom and then you can use the money generated from this financial freedom to buy what you want to buy.

Remember: No one can be super rich and the truest definition of wealth is the amount of days you can hold out without work.

As for how to achieve this, it is mainly related to increasing your education, upgrading your intelligence, and spending more time learning rather than hard work.

[DarkIT]

I'm not that long term thinking and I can't plan 30-40 years ahead.I actually don't care...
There are way too many "what ifs".What if I lose my job/income source,so I can't save enough money?
What if the stock market crashes?What if the bank,in which I'm saving my money goes bankrupt?
What if cryptocurrencies got globally banned and the crypto prices went down up to 10 times?
Anyways,your plan is about earning USD and having a US salary.I live in a poor country and the salaries can't be compared to the average US salary.

Long thinking doesn't need of 30-40 years.If you are bbetween 20-30 is quite enough to think about it.Now we can predicted the age till we live or survived.Many people getting cancer in his younger age itself.Due to some unwanted food also.So it's essential to think about the future.If you inverse in bitcoin, it's enough for the future.

[Poker Player]

A very well worked and well structured post. In general, the advice you give is good, although I don't think it is the only valid advice to face old age.

For me there is one important thing too: do you have children/heirs to leave the estate to when you die? If you don't have them, you can spend some of the principal when you get old, especially if there are market downturns. If you want to leave an inheritance, it is better that the strategies are focused on protecting the principal and live only on income.

The point is that if you focus your youth/maturity on increasing your wealth, you will certainly be better off in your old age than if you don't do it.

[Reatim]

Working ( In company) for me wont make you "Real" rich in your lifetime because it is the company that your making richer and you as employee will always remain as a peanut richer against them.

For me real Work means having your Own Business , creating another chance from your career , and not just giving your 8-10 hours a day following orders from your higher ups.

And besides it is only hard in the beginning but eventually you will get use to it and specially if you love what you are doing.
So Retiring will be more luxurious and worthy when you earn Enough Income to make it for your Last days in this world, living in grandest life you can ever had.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

With the current status of economy and the wages in most countries not going up for over a decade, I think that the only to have a secure future when it comes to finances is to have multiple streams of income, maybe start by putting some money into cryptocurrency or stock market, then do index funds, ETF and mutual funds, or better yet retirement accounts. Or do some side jobs besides your main job, we can't just whine that the government made us what we are right now, those are just words at the end of the day but the reality is that we have to do what others do to make more money.

[Strongkored]

Investing is the best way to not be a burden to other people in old age, investing with high risk is indeed very attractive to the returns you get, but it really depends on the nature of the individual, there is who prefers the type of investment with low risk and not high returns and vice versa.
What is difficult is the commitment to keep saving the return from investment and keep living simply when income rises and and stay focused on the goal of living well in old age.

[mu_enrico]

Yes, we should think about retirement, but don't spend too much time planning it since it is not that useful. Imagine you are driving at night. You will find that you can only see up to 250 feet (according to google ). The same goes for long-term planning. You can see only a few years in the future.

What's more useful is the budget management:
(1) Don't use debts, except if you are 100% sure it's profitable in the end.
(2) Don't spend more than you earn.
(3) Reinvest your saving to generate more income.

[paxmao]

... I will likely just go stick with option (C) crypto products like the KCS token that will provide dividends or the Casino tokens that distribute coins as well. ...

Nice add. Are you aware of the 10 page disclaimer attached to that type of stuff? Are you aware that those yields only happen if the coin / network does actually have real use?

Let me put it another way: Would you be happy to die of hunger if those investments go to zero (which can easily be the case).

...
There are way too many "what ifs".What if I lose my job/income source,so I can't save enough money?
What if the stock market crashes?What if the bank,in which I'm saving my money goes bankrupt?
...

...
 Imagine you are driving at night. You will find that you can only see up to 250 feet (according to google ). The same goes for long-term planning. You can see only a few years in the future.
....

Yep, that is called working with incomplete information. In those cases you act on what you do know - e.g. the fact that you will need money later in life. The fact that there are unknowns is not a good reason not to act, but rather a reason to take action to mitigate risks.

As someone said, there are "two types of people, those who can work with incomplete information"

...
As for how to achieve this, it is mainly related to increasing your education, upgrading your intelligence, and spending more time learning rather than hard work.
...

I could not agree more. You need to understand money, investment and the world economy in general terms. I bet most people on this forum are on the idea that investing is a rulette.

Please, notice that I have not said that you need to work hard or that you need to have income just from work or from a company. I am a firm advocate for laziness, but meaning using your brains to work less and get more results.

This advice is not valid in every country and situation that's true, but it is a good start.

...
Working ( In company) for me wont make you "Real" rich in your lifetime because it is the company that your making richer and you as employee will always remain as a peanut richer against them.
...

This is not about being rich, is about planning. Actually, many people who worked for others do perfectly well and becomes what you could define as rich. See this case in which modest investors did become rich over time with Peter Lynch 20% yearly average return across several decades and this case. These two are very well known cases and not unique.

You can actually become "rich" or at least "rich enough" being a regular joe if you take the time to educate and understand your options.

...
The point is that if you focus your youth/maturity on increasing your wealth, you will certainly be better off in your old age than if you don't do it.
...

There you go, someone got the main point!

[RealMalatesta]

Yes, we should think about retirement, but don't spend too much time planning it since it is not that useful. Imagine you are driving at night. You will find that you can only see up to 250 feet (according to google ). The same goes for long-term planning. You can see only a few years in the future.

What's more useful is the budget management:
(1) Don't use debts, except if you are 100% sure it's profitable in the end.
(2) Don't spend more than you earn.
(3) Reinvest your saving to generate more income.

I use all of these things all together and I can't say that I am rich, I have been working for just 9 years so far which means maybe it will take some more time, but "unexpected" payments cause you to go back to zero when you are not too rich.

I never taken out a loan ever, and I never owned credit card neither, I always lived within my means and never had debt in my life, I always save 10% of my savings forever and never had a problem with that, and I reinvest that money into things to make more money. Why am I not rich? Because, I had to spend that money into things that wasn't expected, health related stuff, parent related stuff, life related stuff in general, not because I spent it on some funny stuff, I spent it on important stuff and that is why I think it is quite important to realize that you could do everything and still not be rich if you get unlucky.

[danherbias07]

Thank you.
That's a good start for awareness.
Most of the "millennials" now stay on their smartphones and just being lazy. It's a bad start if you get used to it.

Work hard, but it doesn't mean you will YOLO after that. I think I have saved enough money because of that.
I still enjoy life without buying unnecessary things or feeding myself with expensive foods just to feel the joy of my salary.
Now I have my own house, a wife, and 2 great kids. Living in a peaceful place.
Preserving that is my job now then, saving and investing for myself so that I won't be a burden when they grow up.

[oHnK]

It's quite interesting that you are giving financial literacy to readers, but in my opinion almost all people in this forum are traders, investors, or just information seekers related to crypto assets whose financial literacy is basically quite good. Thus, the financial literacy approach taught should be different. Young people who have savings in a commercial bank account are an example of a big loss at this time, because if the story goes into banking, it cannot be separated from inflation. No matter how big the value of your bank savings will be if it is transferred to investment assets such as stocks, crypto, gold and others.

[Johnyz]

We all have to set our goals and think long term even if the future is not so sure, its still better to be prepared. Stocks are good for long term player who wants to earn money passively and and prepare for their retirement though profit is still not guaranteed, depends on the market situation.

If you think stocks especially S&P 500 index will not be good for the next 10 years, then we’re lucky to have a better options to invest for, cryptocurrency gives that opportunity to retire rich and happy. Start preparing for this one now while you are enjoying your younger years.

[palle11]

Remember: No one can be super rich and the truest definition of wealth is the amount of days you can hold out without work.

As for how to achieve this, it is mainly related to increasing your education, upgrading your intelligence, and spending more time learning rather than hard work.

You captured all with those. Being rich is not by hard works but by doing and talking the right kinds of risk. These days people realize that financial intelligence is a huge factor to be rich and not the amount of muscles or strength. Especially with the increase in financial activities on the internet.

Reading the op, he at a point listed cryptocurrency as an investment but he didn't emphasize much on it. IMO, savings and setting monies aside would not help but proper investment like properties and the new revelation of cryptocurrency.
Alright you can imagine a 60 years old in 2010 who bought and hodl just 20 units of bitcoin and now he should be swimming in riches at 70/71 years with the current price. What a way to old gracefully lol

[orions.belt19]

Yes, we should think about retirement, but don't spend too much time planning it since it is not that useful. Imagine you are driving at night. You will find that you can only see up to 250 feet (according to google ). The same goes for long-term planning. You can see only a few years in the future.

What's more useful is the budget management:
(1) Don't use debts, except if you are 100% sure it's profitable in the end.
(2) Don't spend more than you earn.
(3) Reinvest your saving to generate more income.

I use all of these things all together and I can't say that I am rich, I have been working for just 9 years so far which means maybe it will take some more time, but "unexpected" payments cause you to go back to zero when you are not too rich.

I never taken out a loan ever, and I never owned credit card neither, I always lived within my means and never had debt in my life, I always save 10% of my savings forever and never had a problem with that, and I reinvest that money into things to make more money. Why am I not rich? Because, I had to spend that money into things that wasn't expected, health related stuff, parent related stuff, life related stuff in general, not because I spent it on some funny stuff, I spent it on important stuff and that is why I think it is quite important to realize that you could do everything and still not be rich if you get unlucky.

There's a saying here in my country for the middle class people that it will only take just one sickness or medical emergency to render you bankrupt. This is because the medical expenses here are ridiculously expensive it will literally drown you in debt. Unlike in the US or other more developed countries, the government doesn't cover that much for your hospital expenses. People joke that the debt you incur is more deadly than your illness.

This is why I try to build up my emergency funds and get a health insurance. However even if I have those, one trip to the hospital could deplete all those. Sadly, I've only started becoming more serious on saving and investing just recently but I follow a simple formula. Savings - income = expenses. Instead of just saving what's left for my expenses, I do the opposite and spend only what's left after I take out the percent of what's supposed to be saved/invested and if I exceed that then I'm living beyond my means or in need of additional income.

[rosepetals]

If you are not "rich", that is, you work hard for money a manage to save just some, perhaps nothing from month to month, you should be thinking about how to make sure you can live when old without being a burden for you family or having financial difficulties. If you holdled bitcoin since 10 years ago, you do not need to read any further, just enjoy. For the rest, here are some planning tips.

This is particularly important for Millenials (see graph below), as the rates of return for savings and investments are thought to be in decline.

However, you also want to life a good life - there is only one (unless you are Buddhist) - and you probably want to do things that require money. Striking a balance between these two is a little bit of an art.

How much do you need to saver? Too difficult to say in general. Some speakers and authors will tell you that it should be around 10% of your income, but if you earn little you may not be able to or if you want to retire very early you may need to do some extra effort.

 First thing to be clear, you can separate into bags or pots but in reality all your money is the same. Just use this as mind tool.

b) Decide what is the bare minimun you will need each month or year to retire having the basics: a roof over your head, food in the plate and medical care. This is your retirement minimum bag.

- Figure out how much capital (savings) you would need to obtain that monthly income. (e.g. you need 500 USD and you count on having your house paid). That x12 is what you need in a year (e.g. 12000).

- You should count on getting around 4% of your saving as dividend or rental income. To produce 6000 a year that is: 150.000 USD (that's 6000 / .04). That is your bare survival minimum, so you have to save and invest enough to make sure you have it by the time you think you will retire. Savings and investments for that pot have to be super low risk while allowing you to reach that figure. You may think that you will get a pension and that will take care, but I advise you not to count on that. Just make sure you do not depend on someone else for food.

b) Decide what would be a good level of income that would grant you some travelling, leisure or whatever you would like. Let's say that is 1000 a month on top of you bare minimum. That is you wish bag. You can count for this on pension or other income, just halve what you think would be reasonable (e.g. you expect a state or private pension of 1000 per month, count only with 500).

Now you have to figure out how much you would need for that. Again, at 4% would be (12 month x 1000 = 12.000 a year, so capital should be 12.000 / .04 = 300.000 USD. This may seem like quite a bit of money (it is very personal anyway, people have different incomes).

Since you know your goal, you would now setup your saving strategy, but this time you can take part in more risky (yet higher reward) investments. This should help you reach that apparently high figure if you start saving when young.

c) You moon-shot: If you still are able to save more after your two first bags, you can now have your moonshot bag. You can choose any ammount here, and you will invest this in high risk / high paying investments (e.g. crypto). If this goes well, you will retire early and or rich.

All this requires talking about different investment styles and methods. If there is some interest I will later continue the post with ideas on that.

Just as a hint for Millenials:

What to expect from the typical S&P 500 index fund. Current CAPE is high, meaning that standard returns will not be great during the next 10 years (probably)

20 year investments across different decades:

Well in my experience before when I am employed in a company,what I thought everyday is to support my parents and as I got married we used to think for our children needs,setting it as our first priority.Now that I got resigned from my job to take care of my kids I realized that salary was always been so low and not enough so I need to Help my husband doing online selling.Therefore I realized that the time when I'm single I must have been save something for my self so that I can start my own business and help my growing family as well.

[AicecreaME]

No offense for those who are geeks in academics but school always teaches us since day one on how to work on money, instead of how money should work for us, that's why most of the community are stuck in the routine of waking up early spending 8 hours on office a day and just have a minimum salary that'll wear your body out in the whole day.

People wants to work hard but never think of working smart as an alternative to hastened their dreams and goals to be achieved in no time, that's why they're are still working even though they are 60 years old already and above.