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Author Topic: Staking is not for Muslims  (Read 1142 times)
KryptoKings
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March 24, 2021, 09:22:42 AM
 #101

Staking is not like interest, there is a whole different situation about staking and interest from banks. Proof of stake is something that allows you to help people move money around, and you charge money for that, think about it like miners, do miners consider it interest? They do not, plus in order for you to stake you need to keep your PC open if I do not know it wrong, and that means you have to actually "work" for it, you are not getting an interest, you are providing a service and people are paying you for it, that's different from interest.

I still find it idiotic that interest would be bad, it must have been something wrong for those times in a middle east kingdom for sure but in 2021 saying interest is sin would be saying like breathing is sin, interest is everywhere, but this is not interest at all this is a service you charge money and get paid like a normal business.
Interest is a big evil. Remove it and you will have better society. It is making poor poorer and richs richer.

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March 24, 2021, 01:40:00 PM
 #102

I don't think it's just a bad stake for Muslims. But there are some teachings that say that investing in crypto is something that Muslims should avoid. The proceeds from investments in crypto are not halal.

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March 24, 2021, 02:40:32 PM
 #103

Bet is gambling while staking in the blockchain is the key to your property to receive another asset that has been produced over time.
Betting can lose all of your money, but depositing profit won't if you do it correctly.
So the deposit does not violate the rules of your friend's religion.
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March 24, 2021, 04:21:34 PM
Merited by ingiltere (1)
 #104

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

I see that similar discussions happened in Islamic world and they have a point actually. Staking is too similar to lending and you get interest as a reward. But if you think about mining, staking is like mining but you don't consume energy like mining. So there are controversies about that. Since staking is only here for less than 10 years we can't talk about that for sure. Everybody should do their own research and if they don't feel alright they shouldn't touch staking coins at all.
Let me remind you, holding and trading staking coins are okay. It is only when you out them on stake, it is forbidden.
Just like fiat. If you own fiat, there is nothing wrong with it.
But you are not allowed to lend then for interest.
In Islam giving loan is allowed if it is interest free. In fact Islam encourage to give interstate free loans to people who ask for it.
There are many staking models. Each generalization is wrong (including this? Smiley). First of all, interest and staking are not the same essentially. Why? Interest is a contract and needs at least two parties: lender and borrower. In "decentralized" (I'll touch centralized ones later) staking, there is no borrower since nobody or no institution (in case of decentralization) "has to" pay some extra money to the lender.  In fact, there also is no lender. Why? In interest case, the money of lender is used for "something". In staking, again nobody or no institution "is allowed to" use the lender's money. It is just frozen and decreases the "liquid" supply. Nothing else. So, since there is no lender and no borrower, there also is no contract. Yes, you may earn some extra "rate-guaranteed" money (block reward). If the coin is infinitely inflationary (I mean there is no max supply like fiats), this would be probably (... requires to study the details) haram. For the finite supply coins like Bitcoin, those block rewards are the incentives of the setup/preparation phase. If these don't exist, nobody or no group can set up a blockchain. Anyway, after some time, the rewards will be completely finished and the validators will earn extra but "not rate-guaranteed" money from the transactions. To me, this "not guaranteed" money is not interest but dividend. First of all, since the ratio (APR, APY or whatever) is not guaranteed, the validators have a risk of earning nothing. Besides, the validators carry the risk of losing their coins' value.

As for the centralized staking, if the centralized entity does not guarantee any extra money than the amount which the network provides and "really" stakes your assets, I think this isn't haram since the centralized entity and the lender have win-win situation. The centralized entity increases its liquid assets and the lender does not involve in the technical details. Other than this option, I do not think the centralized staking is halal.


As an example, I want to give my staking choice. Currently I stake on Binance Chain and I do not think it is haram.  First of all, it does not have block rewards. The doubt decreases Smiley I earn just from the daily transaction fees. Against this, I cannot move my assets for 7 days. So, I undertake an important risk: I cannot sell them in any unexpected market condition.

To sum up, to me, it cannot be said that "each staking model is haram". Each staking model should be examined by thinking about why interest is haram, similarities, differences. Please do not forget that this is a new economy and technology. Before saying that something is haram easily, Muslims should consider it "thoroughly". I think the former behavior harms the advancement of Muslims.

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March 24, 2021, 05:11:10 PM
 #105

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

I see that similar discussions happened in Islamic world and they have a point actually. Staking is too similar to lending and you get interest as a reward. But if you think about mining, staking is like mining but you don't consume energy like mining. So there are controversies about that. Since staking is only here for less than 10 years we can't talk about that for sure. Everybody should do their own research and if they don't feel alright they shouldn't touch staking coins at all.
Let me remind you, holding and trading staking coins are okay. It is only when you out them on stake, it is forbidden.
Just like fiat. If you own fiat, there is nothing wrong with it.
But you are not allowed to lend then for interest.
In Islam giving loan is allowed if it is interest free. In fact Islam encourage to give interstate free loans to people who ask for it.
In Islam it is fine as long as there is no interest because after all, if there is interest, of course the law is haram
What is certain is that if the concept is like gambling, I think that in Islam also does not allow it,
what is clear is that Islam does not prohibit everything so there is no need to be afraid

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March 24, 2021, 05:14:03 PM
 #106

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

Anyone with even basic knowledge of how cryptocurrency (especially PoS algorithm) works will disagree with the OP. If staking was equal to interest, then users could just keep their coins in cold storage and forget about it. The interest payments would accumulate automatically. But that is not the case. Staking is more like a reward for keeping the Blockchain alive, and thereby helping to process the transactions.

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March 24, 2021, 05:30:24 PM
 #107

~
First of all I want to thank you for your efforts who have written at length and straightened the understanding of the law of risking money in Islam. A little input for you, you should give a little variation in your writing, so that it is easy to read and easy on the eyes.

To sum up, to me, it cannot be said that "each staking model is haram". Each staking model should be examined by thinking about why interest is haram, similarities, differences. Please do not forget that this is a new economy and technology. Before saying that something is haram easily, Muslims should consider it "thoroughly". I think the former behavior harms the advancement of Muslims.
Yes, this has been discussed above, not all bets are haram, but Muslims must respect the rules that have been determined in Islam, even though some people are still violating, but it will be his business with his god.

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March 24, 2021, 06:42:41 PM
 #108

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.
Does that also mean Muslims don't keep fixed deposit accounts at the bank? Fixed deposits also pay interest to owners. Even until lately, savings accounts also paid interest to owners. So, I really don't get this point of you trying to sound this warning. Where is it stated in the Quran that Muslims should not engage in such business. This was the same skepticism that greeted the use of Bitcoin in 2017 by some overzealous Muslim users here. Truth remains that there are worse activities people indulge in than a harmless trading business.

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March 24, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
 #109

I don't think it's just a bad stake for Muslims. But there are some teachings that say that investing in crypto is something that Muslims should avoid. The proceeds from investments in crypto are not halal.
This has a point. If the reason is like this, I think it's understandable and debatable but to say that it's bad because of the reasons of what OP has answered.
I think it's far from the understanding to think that staking isn't for Muslims.


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March 24, 2021, 06:56:23 PM
 #110

I don't think it's just a bad stake for Muslims. But there are some teachings that say that investing in crypto is something that Muslims should avoid. The proceeds from investments in crypto are not halal.
This has a point. If the reason is like this, I think it's understandable and debatable but to say that it's bad because of the reasons of what OP has answered.
I think it's far from the understanding to think that staking isn't for Muslims.

Taking things into account, certain believes are really existing and without deeper knowledge with how the system

works may appear that it's  really against from how they percepts things out , but in general it's the interpretations

of every individuals that matters, let those people decide from how they will take this call.


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fortune1002
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March 24, 2021, 07:09:14 PM
 #111

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.
Yes, I also think same. Staking is Haram in Islam. because it is like getting interest on anything. So I request all Muslim to stay away from it.

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Fatunad
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March 24, 2021, 07:30:02 PM
 #112

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.
If they do have that kind of rule or prohibition in Muslim religion then so be it but we know that not all religions would really be having this kind of thing.
When it comes to staking then it is still a sort form of income and you do really believe that those muslims online are really that much off faithful
on stopping even if they do know its against in muslim religion? Not on applying to all of them but several would really be going to the opposite side.
Crypto is anonymous and no one can spot them out in case they do make out those kind of prohibitions.

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March 24, 2021, 10:07:55 PM
 #113

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.

And i would suggest to separate religion from practicality.
Many muslims do far worse stuff than gain interest on their money. And i know a lot of muslims who have no issue with interest.
Bro if some Muslims do it, then it is not valid(halal) for everyone else. If there is a law in their religion, it is depend who will follow it or not. Some people’s don’t care about their profits like as where are their profits coming from but some are very concern and they adhere to their religion very strictly. So don't judging from one side.

Ok, fair point. But are you telling me that not a single bank in the arab world has interest on the loans they give to the people?
Without interest on loans, banks make no profit.


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March 24, 2021, 10:45:25 PM
 #114

I think betting in crypto is different from betting outside my friend, in my opinion, betting in crypto in my opinion is like we save in a bank and get daily / monthly interest without we lend to other people, because the bet here aims to mine
I don't know what in your mind equates staking with usury, to be honest I am not a religious person, but I understand what is good and bad I think it's better to play in crypto than in the real world when it comes to money

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March 25, 2021, 03:45:48 AM
 #115

So I'm not sure how banks operate in the major Muslim countries, but how do they make money?
On this note, it is Profit making. You are allowed to make profits from your business or what ever lawful investments you might engage in but not to Borrow or Lend and pay or collect interest on the money you borrowed or Lend and this is for the Islamic Banks (simply explained)

Like the other members said, Staking and Lending are different features depending on the coin/token. Maybe specify a more specific scenario?

I guess the poster must have learnt the difference in this case as I believe there are enough explanations with regards to his misunderstanding of both Staking and Lending and some time, some of us wants to over burden our self with what was suppose to be easy which is also kicked against i.e. in the religion.

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March 25, 2021, 03:59:46 AM
 #116

I think betting in crypto is different from betting outside my friend, in my opinion, betting in crypto in my opinion is like we save in a bank and get daily / monthly interest without we lend to other people, because the bet here aims to mine
I don't know what in your mind equates staking with usury, to be honest I am not a religious person, but I understand what is good and bad I think it's better to play in crypto than in the real world when it comes to money
What is meant by interest is what Islam does not want. or maybe what is considered haram.
but for me, the stake is not something like interest. it is only a gift given in varying amounts according to the agreed terms.
we will think of it as a gift from what we lend to someone or the platform.

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March 25, 2021, 04:41:40 AM
 #117

Staking in crypto is like interest in Fiat.
You lend (stake) your crypto and get reward (interest) for it.
I suggest all my Muslim brother to stay away from this new kind usury.
Isn’t staking an investment? Well, why are you trying to act like you’re all perfect or something? If you’re going to be acting all that perfect then I guess you should totally stay away from Bitcoin and every cryptocurrencies, because the way I see it, all these things are investment that you’re doing. Some of you invest in bonds and mutual funds and you get interest on them without knowing what your invested money was used for, so it’s the same thing, except that in this case you’re being told exactly what your money is being used for.

Moreover, do you know the meaning of the word ‘Usury’ that you used there? It means lending money at unreasonable high interests, and I don’t think there is any religion that doesn’t cancel that. Then check how much you’re getting from staking cryptocurrencies? Mostly 4% and you call that an usury, like seriously? Huh Well, just do what’s best for you.
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March 25, 2021, 05:59:56 AM
 #118

I Don't Think Staking Is Haram If You Do It In The Right Way.

I am currently staking on the Oasis Network, I am getting rewarded because I support Mining.

But If You Say Haram To DeFi (Farming, Liquidity Pool), I Will Say Yes To That.

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March 25, 2021, 08:40:36 AM
 #119

Well does it means that Muslims don't do business and make profits on they goods, because I don't see why it is forbidden that getting interest on you asset is a sin before God. Let be careful as not to misinforme our self's.
Profit and interest are two different things. Since you are unable to distinguish between two, you don't have any right to comment.
I created this thread to inform Muslims about staking. If it is not related to you, better avoid posting.

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March 25, 2021, 11:13:14 AM
 #120

But If You Say Haram To DeFi (Farming, Liquidity Pool), I Will Say Yes To That.
I don't think two-sided liquidity pools are haram, since the lender undertakes the risk of the impermanent loss. As for farming, if the invested amount is just frozen (i.e. nobody uses it), imho it is also halal. The farm result is a gift or a reward. It is similar to the setup/early phases of the blockchain. Please see my other views.

There are many staking models. Each generalization is wrong (including this? Smiley). First of all, interest and staking are not the same essentially. Why? Interest is a contract and needs at least two parties: lender and borrower. In "decentralized" (I'll touch centralized ones later) staking, there is no borrower since nobody or no institution (in case of decentralization) "has to" pay some extra money to the lender.  In fact, there also is no lender. Why? In interest case, the money of lender is used for "something". In staking, again nobody or no institution "is allowed to" use the lender's money. It is just frozen and decreases the "liquid" supply. Nothing else. So, since there is no lender and no borrower, there also is no contract. Yes, you may earn some extra "rate-guaranteed" money (block reward). If the coin is infinitely inflationary (I mean there is no max supply like fiats), this would be probably (... requires to study the details) haram. For the finite supply coins like Bitcoin, those block rewards are the incentives of the setup/preparation phase. If these don't exist, nobody or no group can set up a blockchain. Anyway, after some time, the rewards will be completely finished and the validators will earn extra but "not rate-guaranteed" money from the transactions. To me, this "not guaranteed" money is not interest but dividend. First of all, since the ratio (APR, APY or whatever) is not guaranteed, the validators have a risk of earning nothing. Besides, the validators carry the risk of losing their coins' value.

As for the centralized staking, if the centralized entity does not guarantee any extra money than the amount which the network provides and "really" stakes your assets, I think this isn't haram since the centralized entity and the lender have win-win situation. The centralized entity increases its liquid assets and the lender does not involve in the technical details. Other than this option, I do not think the centralized staking is halal.


As an example, I want to give my staking choice. Currently I stake on Binance Chain and I do not think it is haram.  First of all, it does not have block rewards. The doubt decreases Smiley I earn just from the daily transaction fees. Against this, I cannot move my assets for 7 days. So, I undertake an important risk: I cannot sell them in any unexpected market condition.

To sum up, to me, it cannot be said that "each staking model is haram". Each staking model should be examined by thinking about why interest is haram, similarities, differences. Please do not forget that this is a new economy and technology. Before saying that something is haram easily, Muslims should consider it "thoroughly". I think the former behavior harms the advancement of Muslims.

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