Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument

[fillippone]

China Bitcoin Mining Ban made the market accelerate toward modern, more sustainable, and efficient ways of mining.

Blockstream and Macquarie to Form Carbon Neutral Bitcoin Mining Partnership

Bringing together Blockstream’s market-leading Bitcoin technology and Macquarie Group’s (Macquarie) expertise in financial, energy and commodities markets and green infrastructure, Blockstream is pleased to announce a new partnership with Macquarie to pilot a Bitcoin mining facility and explore carbon neutral alternatives for such facilities.

You might not like the involved firms, but it's uncontestable the effort made towards new ways of running the bitcoin mining. Only the time will tell us if it is the correct, i.e. more efficient way, to do that.

[fillippone]

Something interesting just happened in Wyoming:



https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/1441760881038200832?s=20

To me, this is another clear example of the huge historical error China made exiting from the mining industry a while ago, and from the whole bitcoin industry recently (apparently)

Calling themselves out of an industry with so many "branches" in such different sectors, and anyway all at the cutting edge of technology, is something that no country can afford. They are leaving huge advantages to the US in this field of development.

[Lucius]

This is really good news, not only for Bitcoin, but for the environment as well. It reminded me of the Saudi Aramco case from some 2 months ago which at least according to official statements turned out to be a mere rumor, but someone has obviously realized that flared gas has untapped potential that can kills two flies with one blow.

As for China, I think they can obviously afford to turn their backs on Bitcoin (at least as far as crypto mining profits are concerned) because even if all BTCs were mined in China + fees, @stompix calculated that for them this does not represent a significant financial loss. This is not even a matter of consumption or lack of energy, if we know that only one of their largest hydropower plants in one year throws out the amount of energy sufficient for at least 80% of the annual needs of Bitcoin mining.

As far as I can remember, some prominent people from the world of cryptocurrencies in the US have called for this development - because given all the tensions that existed between the two countries, throwing them out in the crypto business was the ultimate goal - and in the end the Chinese threw themselves out without anyone asking for it.

[stompix]

Something interesting just happened in Wyoming:

It didn't "just" happened, it's from April   
https://www.wsmtlaw.com/blog/bitcoin-is-booming-why-wyoming-is-a-virtual-currency-leader-and-how-the-oil-gas-industry-and-cryptocurrency-are-intermingling.html
A bit unexpectedly though, I don't know why but I picture all those states like in the northwest like the ones most resistant to changes and slow to adapt. If you tell me about WY, Montana Dakota I can't picture anything other than mountains and people in hunting gear. 

I wonder how this will last with the current democrat party views, they terminated keystone, stopped issuing leases on federal land, maybe till they make more stupid decisions they will finally realize that their eco madness is driving up prices to an insane level, we're already back to 70$/barrel and no downtrend insight.
Montana could power half of the bitcoin network if they would just be left alone and hopefully, nobody will mess this thing up now.

Calling themselves out of an industry with so many "branches" in such different sectors, and anyway all at the cutting edge of technology, is something that no country can afford. They are leaving huge advantages to the US in this field of development.

You're overreacting.
They've banned cryptos, they didn't ban blockchain projects, they didn't ban any other kind of development, just coins.
What is the state going to lose for real from this? Poeple not investing in bitcoin and gaining profits? They will invest in something else.

Those profits can't be achieved unless some other people buy, the value is decided on a free market so right now even the western world is hurt in terms of future profits since supposedly no more Chinese money will flow into cryptos. There is no actual loss ordinary Chinese people will face in the future, nor this is the state if bitcoin takes over the world and it's valued at $100million they will buy at that price and they will have x worth in bitcoin, this is not a loss but unrealized gains.
A bit of overreacting on both sides, it's not like bitcoin will suffer that much from China but neither is China doomed because they have banned crypto, they've risen to become a superpower without crypto this it ain't going to stop them.

[fillippone]

You're overreacting.

Indeed I am.
You don't know me. A lot of people are coming to me and saying "China Banned!" "Bitcoin is going to fail!" "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster any my raising energy bills are caused by hungry miners!"
So, yes, I might resort to old news and mental construct for a little bit of sanity.... I have probably already lost.

[Kusman]

Bitcoin is not an environmental disaster and they should really give up on defending their own ideas. Because it is not true. In Bitcoin mining, fossil fuels were used for a long time period. But these days, we can clearly see that it is changing. Elon Musk also indicated some months ago that he would think of starting to accept Bitcoin for Tesla payments and he really changed his mind some time later as he saw that renewable energies started being used more than 50% in Bitcoin mining.

[stompix]

A lot of people are coming to me and saying "China Banned!" .....

It's the usual effect of the news, people are agitated for a while, then they realize that the world has not ended and then they lose interest as they were never deeply involved with it. I have a different plan during days like this, rather than trying to convince anybody that this and that is not happening I'm just not debating. What's the point of telling people the sun will rise again tomorrow, they will see for themselves.

So, yes, I might resort to old news and mental construct for a little bit of sanity.... I have probably already lost.

There is no losing here other than losing your time to combat something that will die down on its own. The China ban news will go away since even in normal days there wasn't much news coming from there anyhow, the energy problem is getting fixed by kwh prices and lack of gear, things are actually looking far better now than 6 months ago. Also, there might be another wave of bad news. If they are really serious about this might go after pools and mining gear manufacturers, which is going to trigger another wave of a headless chicken running amok although at this point the consequences would be minimal.

Let a few days pass, enjoy that coffee in the morning when you read the press and everyone has realized that no apocalypse has happened, it's just like in a football match, discussions immediately after the game are completely different than one's two days later.

[fillippone]

A nice article on the WSJ, illustrating how nuclear power plants can benefit from coupling their operation with bitcoin mining.

Bitcoin Miners Eye Nuclear Power as Environmental Criticism Mounts

Bitcoin miners, under fire for their sizable environmental footprint, are forging partnerships with owners of struggling nuclear-power plants with electricity to spare.

The matchups have the potential to solve key issues facing each industry, executives and analysts say: Electricity-hungry bitcoin miners want stable and carbon-free power, while nuclear plants facing competition from cheaper power sources need new customers.

It is something very similar, albeit on a bigger scale, to what Blockchain Alps has been doing with hydroelectric power.

ALPS BLOCKCHAIN: mining in Italy from 100% renewable energy
 

[fillippone]

El Salvador started mining Bitcoin using otherwise wasted Geothermal energy:



https://twitter.com/documentingbtc/status/1442955263149887490?s=21

This bitcoin mining operation is using 100% renewable energy that wasn't used before!

[stompix]

Bitcoin Miners Eye Nuclear Power as Environmental Criticism Mounts

Finally, a thing that makes sense, no solar panels when you have 4 hours of sun, no windmill that might stop spinning 10 hashes away, nuclear power, cheap and reliable, providing power 24/7. I'm almost jumping for joy now as the whole energy crisis in some countries is because they have limited how much energy nuclear powerplants can sell on the market without paying extra taxes on other taxes on taxes, now they can sell it directly and guess what is, cheaper than what other consumers are getting for standard rates.

It's so damn obvious this is the solution, bitcoin is a new technology that requires constant non-stop energy, nuclear is the new technology that gives you constant energy with no fluctuations, enough fuels reserves stored in the reactors for months so you don't have to pray for sun, wind, water or Russian gas.

Exelon Corp. EXC -1.41% in June said that it would shut two of three Illinois nuclear plants that failed to sell their electricity during the most recent wholesale power auction for PJM Interconnection, which operates a market serving 13 states and Washington, D.C. That led state lawmakers to approve a bailout this month to keep the plants running.

This is a perfect example where stupidity leads to, you tax the shit out of nuclear and fossil, you nearly bankrupt them and when they are in danger of closing you realize that you don't actually have enough energy from other sources so you need to bail them out with the same money you've got in taxes.

The whole so-called bitcoin mining council rather than putting one farm there and one from there should simply buy one damn powerplant, with two PWR reactors you can get around 10TWh,  enough to feed 300K S19 Pro/J half of what they have on order till 2023.

It is something very similar, albeit on a bigger scale, to what Blockchain Alps has been doing with hydroelectric power.

The only problem with hydro in Europe is that you can't really expand the capacity, where it was a good place a damn has already been built decades ago if they do generate some excess power you can tap that but you're limited and I doubt the eco-movement will allow any major damn to be built in Europe, so yeah, their expansion on that model will inevitably hit a barrier somewhere in the future.

With nuclear, you can build as many as you want, you need a lake (it can be artificial) and fuel (we have enough for centuries).
But no, we need to fill half of the world with solar panels and the other half with batteries all subsidized with taxpayer money because one crazy kid can't keep her mouth shut. /rant over

[Lucius]

I recently watched a documentary on renewable energy, and was fascinated by the story of a small island called El Hierro (Canary Islands) that became completely energy independent, using a hybrid system that combines wind and a pumped-storage power plant. The man who is responsible for the whole project says that it took 30 years from idea to realization, but he really made something that could be applied to a very large number of islands in the world.

I think human genius has no limits, because how else to call the example of El Salvador volcanic energy or a project on the island of El Hierro.

https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/11/10/2812/htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgF0hV9LTy8

[fillippone]

The only problem with hydro in Europe is that you can't really expand the capacity, where it was a good place a damn has already been built decades ago if they do generate some excess power you can tap that but you're limited and I doubt the eco-movement will allow any major damn to be built in Europe, so yeah, their expansion on that model will inevitably hit a barrier somewhere in the future.

Fully agree with your rant.

Anyway, do not think of Hydroelectric power plants as big dams with huge pipes and turbines. Think more a free flows plants like this one:


https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/types-hydropower-plants

Nowadays big dams are actually as difficult to build as nuclear plants!

[stompix]

Fully agree with your rant.
Anyway, do not think of Hydroelectric power plants as big dams with huge pipes and turbines. Think more a free flows plants like this one:

Not going to happen!
You underestimate the eco movements, they will not agree on anything, for them even signs "Do not step on the grass" are bad.

https://wilderness-society.org/romania-destroys-last-free-flowing-river-in-carpathians/
https://kafkadesk.org/2019/12/14/hydropower-plants-in-central-europe-a-threat-to-biodiversity-warns-wwf/
https://www.wwf.mg/?1436391/As-Investors-Look-to-Dam-the-Pliva-River-Citizens-Rally-Against-Them

What you posted is the equivalent of genocide for them, this one got 20 000 opposing signatures



it doesn't matter that is a run of the river concept, it doesn't matter that it's a micro plant that diverts only a part of the water and still lets the river flow in its original place, it somehow miraculously "affects' the environment. Plus, it has concrete and steel so it's bad!

A week ago I ordered 20 silicon straws since plastic ones are banned and those made out of paper are pure garbage, they've come in a plastic box with a lot of bubble-wrap and duct tape enough for 1000 plastic straws, and all this packaging ...went into the garbage, but, I'm saving the Earth!!!!

[fillippone]

[OT]

I like Tyrol.
When BTC will go over my "fuck you price" ^{It has to go up a lot} is am seriously thinking about settling there, opening a shop crafting custom-designed
wooden Japanese jointed mining rigs.

Of course, at the moment I can barely hammer a nail into two wood tables to join them together.

[fillippone]

An improbable Bitcoin Sponsor surfaced today: Ted Cruz.


https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1447264180260818954?s=21


Nic Carter commented:

Sen. Cruz makes 3 key points

- Miners can mine off grid by mitigating waste nat gas (byproduct of oil extraction)

- Miners can participate in demand response and give energy back to grid when most needed

- Miners can take advantage of stranded renewables

Basically Ted Cruz reiterated the ideas in this presentation:



https://niccarter.info/wp-content/uploads/txsummit_nc_oct08.pdf

[perryxi2]

As you can see most miners can choose to invest in renewable energy like solar or wind but they have chosen the path of using fossil fuels, but if the energy industry does not change the way of surname. are receiving their energy source, the cycle will continue. The only environmental disaster here is that we are still using fossil fuels. Yes, I am a big bitcoin lover but I personally do not accept the big impact on life and environment. Because the environment is where we all depend on it and develop where my family is, the current environmental pollution is very urgent, personally I do not support the exploitation of the environment. Bitcoin mining with such environmentally polluting energy sources.

[fillippone]

Emission reduction can be attained either trough lowering mining dependence from fossil fuels, or from increasing mining equipment effciency.

RIOT made some improvement in this second direction:


RIOT BLOCKCHAIN ANNOUNCES 200MW IMMERSION-COOLED BITCOIN MINING OPERATION

The article states::

Immersion-Cooling is the process of submerging miner ASICs in a specialized fluid that circulates, allowing the miners integrated circuits to operate at lower temperatures. This technique can also increase the hash rate of the miners, as they no longer need fans for cooling, resulting in the machines using less energy.

The company is expecting a 25% increase in hash rate from the miners being submerged, according to industry data and the company’s own preliminary immersion-cooling test results, but they could see a potential increase of ASIC performance by as much as 50%.

So it is the twist: RIOT can chose between either emitting 20% less Co2 in the athmosphere, or they can improve by 20% their hashing power without increasing their CO2 allowance.

[fillippone]

Have you ever seen a submerged Miner?


https://twitter.com/originalcolabtc/status/1451738901358448640?s=21

This is what I was talking about on the previous post.

[mrall]

This is an interesting post since it started just before the actual China ban in 2021. At first in September the btc price dropped,
but then went higher than before. Can anyone speculate as to why and how that is? Did other miners just start mining more?

It is possible to come up with elegant solutions to mine cryptocoin.
A simple field of solar and wind power, connected to buildings with mining equipment. It could be organized as farms; a field associated with a smaller building,
and various groups of farms, each connected to also share power as needed. Very modern very eco friendly, cryptocurrency is unique in that manner, it's all digital,
such that generally hands off nature methods are possible with it, so it is definitely the future, but the powers that be want to have control over it.

[fillippone]

Following China ban, bitcoin Mining rapidly moved toward more sustainable ways of generating his power:



The bitcoin Mining Council notes that:

MC estimates the sustainable power mix* for bitcoin mining to be 58%, compared to 22% for the world.
▪ The sustainable power mix in bitcoin mining has increased from 37% to 58% in 2021. China's mining ban had a massive impact since China's coal-powered miners were forced out of operation.

In the Original documents, Thera are a lot off very informative slides.

Have a look here:
GLOBAL BITCOIN MINING DATA REVIEW Q3 2021

One I like the most is this one:




Bitcoin mining provides a free, uncensorable, unconfiscatable, peer-to-peer, worldwide, borderless wealth transferring network for the consumption less than...[drumroll]... Holiday Lights.