Is Bitcoin a scam: The long debated argument discussion by Bloomberg - Quicktake

[rdbase]

The criticisms against bitcoin made by bloomberg since it has reached well past $60k per coin recently.
So you just knew the big news media outlets were going to put up their views on how is it possible for something they all dismissed as a just a fad several years ago when it rose then dumped in pretty short succession.
But this time it has held strong being very stable just above $57k in it's second huge bull run.

https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1372874835832008721

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

Isn't it odd they compared bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of Argentina to mine it?
Under what time frame?



Post your comments on this argument they have put forth against the cryptocurrency that is taking over the world.

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[acroman08]

sorry didn't watch the video. but reading the comments in the comment section it seems that they are set on BTC fud and pushing their own agenda(very typical). anyway, I found this article regarding the electric usage of bitcoin VS Argentina and it says here that "bitcoin uses more electricity annually than the whole of Argentina". so it is in the 1-year time frame.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

[bitbollo]

you can find more "debuking" information in this thread created by @fillippone.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5325350.msg56613804#msg56613804

However I like their documentary and the way they are using to narrate a story.
But talking about bitcoin from a "past" perspective or just taking as comparison other assets has been just a fail and time wasting....

[fillippone]

you can find more "debuking" information in this thread created by @fillippone.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5325350.msg56613804#msg56613804

However I like their documentary and the way they are using to narrate a story.
But talking about bitcoin from a "past" perspective or just taking as comparison other assets has been just a fail and time wasting....

The electricity consumption is a too powerful image to narrate Bitcoin to pretend the “casual” reporters don’t fall from it.
The point is that kind of  impariamo is meaningless for a lot of reasons, and anyone pretending to know something about bitcoin, should know how to debunk it.
This is why I created the above thread.

[Oshosondy]

Isn't it odd they compared bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of Argentina to mine it?
Under what time frame?

What I know is that miners pay for the electricity they are using and this will contribute to electricity sectors to produce more electricity, some people do complain about this because they think most electricity produces carbon dioxide leading to green house gases, but it is evident that more than 75% miners make use of renewable energy while the use of wind and solar as being increasing. People do not like to face the fact, there are many companies producing this global warming gases, which they do not talk more about unlike bitcoin, the cars people are using, the power plants industries and the rate of bush burning and deforestation all contributing to global warming. I do not think that should be the talk, but miners are moving towards renewable energy production which makes bitcoin mining not hazardous as people think.

Also in the video is about bitcoin as a form of ponzi, that is one of the useless information about bitcoin by critics, can ponzi survive for years if it is ponzi, when all population has being reached, no new investors will come in into ponzi scheme, and the old investors will gain while the new ones will not have new ones to pay for them to earn, thereby the new investors will lose, this will result to the collapse of the ponzi scheme, bitcoin has been existing for ten years now, and will still exists for decade or even centuries, that makes bitcoin different from ponzi, ponzi can never survive for long while bitcoin has survived for long because it is not a ponzi.

[Lucius]

I watched the video, and I have to admit that it's literally 5 minutes of wasted time, because you won't see anything in it that you haven't already seen at least a hundred times. The biggest skeptics are Bill Gates and Jamie Dimon, a few shots from various stock exchanges and the construction of a mining farm in the Arctic Circle, noting that of course Bitcoin consumes energy like the whole of Argentina.

Yes Bitcoin is an SCAM for all those who are convinced of it, and all who try to convince them otherwise are just wasting precious time to convince them. The media certainly expected the price to plummet again, as was the case in early 2018 - but we must understand that the average journalist who writes about cryptocurrencies knows much less than the average user of this forum.

I have an idea for all these so-called journalists - how about they start constructing some new conspiracy theories, say one that would rely on Bitcoin being the cause of COVID-19, of course for the reason that it would weaken the US dollar and cause the BTC pump

[o_e_l_e_o]

I mean, he even gets Satoshi's name wrong at the 1 minute mark, so that should give you a good indication of just how much thought and research went in to producing this awful video.

At 2 minutes they say that the Whitepaper states there would be a cap on supply. This is completely false. The Whitepaper does no such thing.

To state bitcoin has "failed in its goal of displacing the dollar" is also wrong, for two reasons. First of all, that was never a stated goal of bitcoin. Secondly, fiat money has been around for over a thousand years. Bitcoin has been around for 12. The collapse of fiat isn't going to happen overnight.

The electricity impact I have spoken about extensively on this forum, and is a terrible argument.

He ends by saying that we all might as well just stick to centralized payment processors. He has completely failed to understand what bitcoin is trying to achieve, and appears to have taken all his arguments from a cursory 10 minute Google search without doing any research whatsoever in to why they are all wrong.

[Mugtaiya]

I watched the video, and I have to admit that it's literally 5 minutes of wasted time, because you won't see anything in it that you haven't already seen at least a hundred times. The biggest skeptics are Bill Gates and Jamie Dimon, a few shots from various stock exchanges and the construction of a mining farm in the Arctic Circle, noting that of course Bitcoin consumes energy like the whole of Argentina.

Yes Bitcoin is an SCAM for all those who are convinced of it, and all who try to convince them otherwise are just wasting precious time to convince them. The media certainly expected the price to plummet again, as was the case in early 2018 - but we must understand that the average journalist who writes about cryptocurrencies knows much less than the average user of this forum.

I have an idea for all these so-called journalists - how about they start constructing some new conspiracy theories, say one that would rely on Bitcoin being the cause of COVID-19, of course for the reason that it would weaken the US dollar and cause the BTC pump

The biggest skeptics are the banks because they see bitcoin as an adversary to their own current fiat financial system.
Yet big banking corporations are looking towards diversifying their own assets into bitcoin namely J.P Morgan and Goldman sachs
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/12/bitcoin-banks-closer-accepting-cryptocurrency-asset-class.html

Even heard a while ago a germany bank has started accepting bitcoin deposits and I think there is one in sweden or somewhere else in europe who has recently started taking in bitcoin as if it were their own local currency.

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.
Quite outlandish statement from the ones who produced this video while it is a known globally accepted currency already.

[avikz]

Well we always have two sides of a story, always! For bitcoin, it is either a believer or a non-believer! So there you have it! Non-believers like Jemie Dimon or Warren Buffet will always speak against bitcoin and believes like Elon Musk will always speak in support of bitcoin.

That argument will continue and non-believers will always find ways to bring bitcoin's reputation. The bitcoin market initially used to react to such comments and views but it's now long gone! So the argument will continue while the bitcoin will also continue to flourish!

[Saint-loup]

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Isn't it odd they compared bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of Argentina to mine it?
Under what time frame?

Why it would be odd while it's true?  
The time frame is the same. In one second or in one year the Bitcoin network consume more electricity than Argentina.

Cambridge researchers say it consumes around 121.36 terawatt-hours (TWh) a year - and is unlikely to fall unless the value of the currency slumps.
[...]
The online tool has ranked Bitcoin’s electricity consumption above Argentina (121 TWh), the Netherlands (108.8 TWh) and the United Arab Emirates (113.20 TWh) - and it is gradually creeping up on Norway (122.20 TWh).

The energy it uses could power all kettles used in the UK for 27 years, it said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

The Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index : https://cbeci.org

[o_e_l_e_o]

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.

It's the same with all the big banks. "Do as I say, not as I do". Publicly, they call bitcoin a scam because they know it threatens the fiat monetary system that they have worked so hard to control. It threatens their ability to suppress the working class, to buy out politicians, to influence elections, to line their own pockets. But they also know bitcoin isn't going anywhere, so while they publicly call it a scam, they work behind the scenes to invest in it so they aren't left behind. While Jamie Dimon goes on television to say "Bitcoin is a fraud and a Ponzi scheme", his own bank is buying bitcoin and recommending to their investors to put a percentage of their holdings in to bitcoin.

For bitcoin, it is either a believer or a non-believer!

It reminds me of that quote by Neil deGrasse Tyson - "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it". Dimon and Buffet can call bitcoin a fraud all they like. Meanwhile, I'll continue to use it to send money to friends and family and purchase goods and services without any centralized third parties, without any middlemen, and without any influence from banks or governments. The good thing about bitcoin is that it works whether or not you believe in it.

[Mugtaiya]

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.

It's the same with all the big banks. "Do as I say, not as I do". Publicly, they call bitcoin a scam because they know it threatens the fiat monetary system that they have worked so hard to control. It threatens their ability to suppress the working class, to buy out politicians, to influence elections, to line their own pockets. But they also know bitcoin isn't going anywhere, so while they publicly call it a scam, they work behind the scenes to invest in it so they aren't left behind. While Jamie Dimon goes on television to say "Bitcoin is a fraud and a Ponzi scheme", his own bank is buying bitcoin and recommending to their investors to put a percentage of their holdings in to bitcoin.

For bitcoin, it is either a believer or a non-believer!

It reminds me of that quote by Neil deGrasse Tyson - "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it". Dimon and Buffet can call bitcoin a fraud all they like. Meanwhile, I'll continue to use it to send money to friends and family and purchase goods and services without any centralized third parties, without any middlemen, and without any influence from banks or governments. The good thing about bitcoin is that it works whether or not you believe in it.

Well of course they say what they want in public so to keep up appearances. While behind the scenes they are doing whatever it is to quell their own best interests. This is a common human trait, just look at any politician to get a clear view of what I am saying.

Also to the comment about bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of argentina,
You guys do realize the consumption there includes bitcoin mining themselves of the past 5 years.
They run bitmain miners like air conditioners since their electrical bill is like pennies compared to those in the states.
So why wouldnt they want to run 50-100 asic miners in every home if they have such low cost of their own electricity?

[BrewMaster]

Post your comments on this argument they have put forth against the cryptocurrency that is taking over the world.

as Gandhi said: "first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
we shouldn't waste our time on media outlets that have been going through all these phases so far and are now transitioning to fighting. just let them spread their FUD like they always do and we win...

[rdbase]

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Isn't it odd they compared bitcoin taking as much electricity as the whole country of Argentina to mine it?
Under what time frame?

Why it would be odd while it's true?  
The time frame is the same. In one second or in one year the Bitcoin network consume more electricity than Argentina.

Cambridge researchers say it consumes around 121.36 terawatt-hours (TWh) a year - and is unlikely to fall unless the value of the currency slumps.
[...]
The online tool has ranked Bitcoin’s electricity consumption above Argentina (121 TWh), the Netherlands (108.8 TWh) and the United Arab Emirates (113.20 TWh) - and it is gradually creeping up on Norway (122.20 TWh).
The energy it uses could power all kettles used in the UK for 27 years, it said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952
The Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index : https://cbeci.org

I didn't write the comment to that tweet so I am not exactly sure about the settlement part of it.
But I would imagine they mean the payee purchases something using their visa card then they actually owe the credit card company 30 days after the purchase date for this amount, so they actually are on the hook while bitcoin you are paying with something that you already own. So it is settled once it fully confirms on the blockchain.
Atleast this is how I seen it with just a glance and not overthinking it too much after reading it.

Along with the electricity debate. There are bitcoin farms which use renewable resources such as wind farms and solar power to provide the electricity so to power their entire mining rigs.
I had the foresight to the question coming up with this source for my evidence on the matter:

Mining in the Arctic (Norilsk) using gases
https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1372955971367108610

Bitcluster opening a mining farm




The above should settle any argument about "Is bitcoin mining wasting the world's resources in it's power consumption?"

[cr1776]

I watched the video, and I have to admit that it's literally 5 minutes of wasted time, because you won't see anything in it that you haven't already seen at least a hundred times. The biggest skeptics are Bill Gates and Jamie Dimon, a few shots from various stock exchanges and the construction of a mining farm in the Arctic Circle, noting that of course Bitcoin consumes energy like the whole of Argentina.

Yes Bitcoin is an SCAM for all those who are convinced of it, and all who try to convince them otherwise are just wasting precious time to convince them. The media certainly expected the price to plummet again, as was the case in early 2018 - but we must understand that the average journalist who writes about cryptocurrencies knows much less than the average user of this forum.

I have an idea for all these so-called journalists - how about they start constructing some new conspiracy theories, say one that would rely on Bitcoin being the cause of COVID-19, of course for the reason that it would weaken the US dollar and cause the BTC pump

The biggest skeptics are the banks because they see bitcoin as an adversary to their own current fiat financial system.
Yet big banking corporations are looking towards diversifying their own assets into bitcoin namely J.P Morgan and Goldman sachs
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/12/bitcoin-banks-closer-accepting-cryptocurrency-asset-class.html

Even heard a while ago a germany bank has started accepting bitcoin deposits and I think there is one in sweden or somewhere else in europe who has recently started taking in bitcoin as if it were their own local currency.

So how can they say with a straight face that bitcoin is a scam if their counterparts are already accepting it.
Quite outlandish statement from the ones who produced this video while it is a known globally accepted currency already.

I think it is more likely that the bigger skeptics are the entrenched governmental so-called elites. They know that bitcoin will undermine their ability to skim a percentage every year off of everyone's fiat, seemingly below the radar. So I think the banks are one level removed from the true people who are afraid.  People are catching on that governments are not there for their benefit. The governments are there to benefit the people who are running them so they can control everyone else. They do it by trying to divide people by immutable, irrelevant characteristics such as skin color so that people don't notice the evil that the so-called elite is foisting upon them.

[cr1776]

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Final settlement means of the payment can't be reversed. Credit cards can be reversed for 3-6 months. I didn't write the tweet either but that is almost assuredly what they meant.   

Now, 3-6 months is a really, really slow payment system.  How can someone buy coffee with it?

[pixie85]

Who's there to say what's a waste and what is not?

Like when I see someone burning rubber in a car I feel like it's a waste of good tires but for that driver it's fun. It's the same fun someone else pays for when they launch fireworks. It's resources being wasted and air being polluted but someone paid to have some fun this way and someone else was paid to produce them.

If I want to spend my money on mining bitcoin it's my money and my choice. For them it may be a waste but when I see them fueling a V12 car that burns 10 times more than my car to travel the same distance I feel like they're wasting money and resources.

[rdbase]

A comment I liked from this tweet:
Wages to Freedom Man technologistMoney bag @bitsee2 Mar 19 Replying to @Quicktake and @EdVanDerWalt
Unfortunately an uneducated video. Especially the Visa comment. Visa is not analogous to Bitcoin. Visa does not provide final settlement.

What do you mean by that? What do you call a final settlement exactly?

Final settlement means of the payment can't be reversed. Credit cards can be reversed for 3-6 months. I didn't write the tweet either but that is almost assuredly what they meant.  
Now, 3-6 months is a really, really slow payment system.  How can someone buy coffee with it?

Okay, thanks for clearing that up for us then.
Also Visa has a partnership with crypto.com just last week so they are not looking to avoid cryptocurrency use like the banks have been doing all these years in the past, but embracing it.

https://twitter.com/adamegressy/status/1374088034526883847?s=21

HAVE FUN STAYING POOR!
#HFSP

Solar and crypto mentioned in the same tweet.
Not so scare as one might think wouldn't you say?

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1373890850493591552?s=21

“Watch what they do not what they say” they say, with that in mind I cannot help to think that despite all the complaining people love to be poor as they are not buying bitcoin, the best way to stop being poor that has appeared during the last century.

Thought I heard those very same words before.

[Lucius]

I mean, he even gets Satoshi's name wrong at the 1 minute mark, so that should give you a good indication of just how much thought and research went in to producing this awful video.
At 2 minutes they say that the Whitepaper states there would be a cap on supply. This is completely false. The Whitepaper does no such thing.

Some things I obviously missed, but all you noticed is just proof that these so-called journalists know a lot less than the average user of this forum - you're going to talk about Bitcoin, and you can't even say the name of the person who invented it properly.

The biggest skeptics are the banks because they see bitcoin as an adversary to their own current fiat financial system.

I'm only referring to the video you can see if you visit the link from the OP, because it mentions only those two people as some of the critics or skeptics - and we all know that Jamie Dimon changed his mind a long time ago, and that JPM is today a bank that every week gives very positive opinions when it comes to BTC.

At the moment, banks are just trying to slow down the adaptation until they are ready to jump on the BTC train and profit from it. It is only important to them that they earn as much as possible, and it is less important whether they launder money for drug cartels or take fees for crypto exchange/custody.

I had the foresight to the question coming up with this source for my evidence on the matter:
Mining in the Arctic (Norilsk) using gases
https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1372955971367108610

Journalists and their research work, we had this topic on the forum almost 2 months ago. It would actually be more correct for Quicktake to become Slowtake

Bitcoin in Arctic Circle - The northernmost mining farm in the world!

[Innerpumper]

Electricity is one of the scattered problems when it comes to mining bitcoin today. I know that, but. See the price of bitcoin now. If the upper class continues to support bitcoin through $1m/btc will power companies be harmed? I think it's going to be better. It does not make sense that bitcoin was created and then abandoned for less obvious reasons. But it's been almost 10 years since bitcoin went without any major problems just a few rumors from people who still don't trust bitcoin.