Bitcointalk forum holding 125 BTC

[Quickseller]

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

There's also a considerable cost for forum treasurers: (at least) 4*0.75BTC per year, or 0.25BTC per month. That's 77% of the ads revenue you mentioned.

The fact that forum treasurers are getting paid ~45 grand/year to safeguard private keys makes me regret my escrow shenanigans from years ago even more.

I think theymos is probably overpaying for what amounts to escrow services, considering that each treasurer may not need to ever do any work, or sign any transaction.

When considering ad revenue, mod payments, and treasurer payment accruals, the forum is certainly operating in the red. The forum has the ability to operate this way for many years/decades, so theymos may not be concerned.I do think that the forum should at least allow targeted ads, which I would anticipate increase total ad revenue.

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[shahzadafzal]

When considering ad revenue, mod payments, and treasurer payment accruals, the forum is certainly operating in the red. The forum has the ability to operate this way for many years/decades, so theymos may not be concerned. I do think that the forum should at least allow targeted ads, which I would anticipate increase total ad revenue.

Of course, I'm not in the same level as you guys are, on commenting about the forum and its revenue but i would like to say about targeted ads... they are never beneficial in long run. I personally loose trust on any website running targeted ads. May be forum will gain some revenue but how much user base it might lose?

I'm sure if theymos focuses on ads, it won’t take long  for any other forums like "stackoverflow" to take over all the bitcoin related technical discussion.

If current ads revenue is enough to pay expenses and bitciontalk's BTC stash not depleting very fast... introducing ads for profit or additional revenue...  i doubt if it will be beneficial in the future.

Ad free and trust worthy content is the still the key... newspapers and many media outlets still quoting posts of Satoshi and Hal Finney from bitcointalk and i wish it stays the same way.

[OgNasty]

All theymos would have to do is take control of signature advertisements instead of having them run by campaign managers and the forum could raise a fortune.  This is just one idea, there are plenty more.  As long as we don't let this forum fall into complete disrepair or become more of a troll haven, there is plenty of value that could be unlocked in the future.  Granted it seems we have been drifting in that direction for a long time, but a couple of simple changes would be capable of righting the ship.  It's just a matter of necessity forcing change I guess, and we are a long way from this forum needing financial assistance. 

[Quickseller]

When considering ad revenue, mod payments, and treasurer payment accruals, the forum is certainly operating in the red. The forum has the ability to operate this way for many years/decades, so theymos may not be concerned. I do think that the forum should at least allow targeted ads, which I would anticipate increase total ad revenue.

Of course, I'm not in the same level as you guys are, on commenting about the forum and its revenue but i would like to say about targeted ads... they are never beneficial in long run. I personally loose trust on any website running targeted ads. May be forum will gain some revenue but how much user base it might lose?

That doesn't make sense to me. Why do you not trust sites running targeted ads? Someone who regularly views, but doesn't post in the gambling sub would probably be interested in ads for a casino, while someone who posts in the altcoin sub might be more interested in an exchange.

Your post history is no secret. The forum is already collecting enough information to serve targeted ads, but for some unknown reason is not doing anything with the data it is collecting on its users.

[LoyceV]

That doesn't make sense to me. Why do you not trust sites running targeted ads?

It depends: targeted advertising makes me think about giants like Google, who build profiles based on your browsing habits and everything they know about you. I wouldn't like it if Bitcointalk starts using Adwords, even though I'm okay with it on for instance a car forum. I care more about my privacy in relation to crypto than other subjects.

Someone who regularly views, but doesn't post in the gambling sub would probably be interested in ads for a casino, while someone who posts in the altcoin sub might be more interested in an exchange.

I'd be totally okay with advertising targeting only certain boards. Most gambling signature campaigns have special requirements for the gambling board too.

Your post history is no secret. The forum is already collecting enough information to serve targeted ads, but for some unknown reason is not doing anything with the data it is collecting on its users.

If I have to guess, it's because of the forum's mission:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

And:

the forum has enough reserves for a long time

And theymos doesn't want more work:

I've actually thought about getting rid of the forum ads, since it's often a big headache

[Lorence.xD]

Few things:

Forum holds more than 125 BTC. Multiple people have access to the forum funds via Multi-sig. For more info in detail,read : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

Forum spends most of the money of Epochtalk, and to pay out mods. Epochtalk is the new forum software which has been in development for ~8 years. The board for epochtalk is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0

Do they invest or something to keep a steady bitcoin because paying mods is going to be draining those bitcoin and the forum software that you are talking about is going to add to that expenses too. Are there still donators to this day that bitcoin price is high.

[pugman]

Wowow don't say things like that, people will believe it . The reality for most mods is much less.
Mods get paid in BTC, everything is on the blockchain and accessible to everyone with a minimum of research.

I know what I do for what I'm paid (and I'm not complaining), but I really can't even imagine what those who get the most must do (in terms of handled reports and all the other inconveniences).

My bad, I was certain I read somewhere, where a mod said they got paid around 1000$ in bitcoin, at that time. Not saying its the case right now, but still don't want to cause a confusion. Apologizo.

You mods really are the goats and are hella under-appreciated. Let this post be an appreciation for everything YOU and the other mods do. You make the forum more nice for us. So thank you.

The vast majority get paid less than that, depends on their activity and whether they're Global mods or not (the latter are paid more per action, IIRC). Current forum funds also amount to >1250 BTC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0 (I'm writing this number here in case someone still failed to follow the link.)

Which means the forum will never have any problems to self-sustain financially.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that, I didn't know. I was under the impression that the payment scale was only based on reports graded/wtv. Good to know.

What if I tell you guys forum used to hold 5500 BTC…. but that was 10 years ago.. of course there is cost involved. Running this community of 3.2m users is not free and specially cost to epochtalk , so it would be insane if someone thinks forum still holding this much BTC

The forum has about 650 760 920 1120 1720 2267 3000 5500 BTC on hand at this moment, but you can bid more than that.

I am aware of this. Forum had more than  6000 BTC too: in the year 2013, the forum had received a grand total of 6499 BTC.

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

I am not sure how much hosting costs the forum per month, but it is probably a decent amount based on the amount of traffic it gets.

Wow thats some zuckerburg skills right ere, Mister. Pretty cool, pretty cool; guess you learn something errydayyayayay. What I am suprised by is even with such a huge btc price surge, people are still spending crazy money on forum ads(0.325 btc = 18,950 USD rn).

Few things:

Forum holds more than 125 BTC. Multiple people have access to the forum funds via Multi-sig. For more info in detail,read : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

Forum spends most of the money of Epochtalk, and to pay out mods. Epochtalk is the new forum software which has been in development for ~8 years. The board for epochtalk is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0

Do they invest or something to keep a steady bitcoin because paying mods is going to be draining those bitcoin and the forum software that you are talking about is going to add to that expenses too. Are there still donators to this day that bitcoin price is high.

No, the btc is just kept in a multi-sig wallet. And the last donator that donated was back in 2017? And mods dont get paid from the donation money, they get paid from the forum ads that are sold.
 

[Onuohakk]

I don't think there is much stuff to be added to the already existing forum. The forum formation is fascinating compared to other forums I have participated in. I believe that there will be other changes that going to occur in years to come but for now, let's enjoy what the forum got for us already. The people in charge of running this forum knows how they get the revenue to put the forum for a better experience

[Quickseller]

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

I am not sure how much hosting costs the forum per month, but it is probably a decent amount based on the amount of traffic it gets.

[...]What I am suprised by is even with such a huge btc price surge, people are still spending crazy money on forum ads(0.325 btc = 18,950 USD rn).

 

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

[OgNasty]

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

With the much higher Bitcoin exchange rate this year, I believe it would be making an assumption to think the BTC payment to treasurers would remain the same going forward.  I find it a bit unlikely that this would be the case.  I would even go as far as to propose an 80% reduction in the BTC amount paid to treasurers going forward and think that could be done by theymos without anyone involved having an issue.

[Welsh]

I mean we've got to have a decent budget for our annual moderator parties, and april fool shenanigans, right?

Do you really think so? From what I can recall mods get paid around 1000-2000$ a month on a normal basis if they handle a certain portion of reports. I am not sure if this is still the case though. Mods get paid in terms of how many reports they relatively handle. Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5294865.msg55717644#msg55717644

OTOH, I came across this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.msg2480445#msg2480445 which basically proves the forum had more than 6000 BTC in funds.

More links regards to mod payments: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265166.msg54889130#msg54889130

Global moderators maybe, but local board, and general moderators tend to get much less than that. Usually, in the low hundreds depending on activity, and how many actions they take as a moderator. For those calling for transparency regarding mod payments, its super easy to find out how much a moderator is getting paid.

Basically, staff get paid based on a hidden algorithm probably only known by theymos.

[Quickseller]

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

With the much higher Bitcoin exchange rate this year, I believe it would be making an assumption to think the BTC payment to treasurers would remain the same going forward.  I find it a bit unlikely that this would be the case.  I would even go as far as to propose an 80% reduction in the BTC amount paid to treasurers going forward and think that could be done by theymos without anyone involved having an issue.

Theymos has a history of wanting to keep transactions denominated in terms of bitcoin, rather than USD. He kept your treasurer agreement in place for years after the bitcoin price made the fee excessive. Theymos also cannot unilaterally change the terms of the treasurer agreement. If he wanted to reduce the fee paid to treasurers, he would need to get the treasurers to agree to a new rate, and risk that some may not agree, and be left with fewer treasurers

[Welsh]

Theymos has a history of wanting to keep transactions denominated in terms of bitcoin, rather than USD. He kept your treasurer agreement in place for years after the bitcoin price made the fee excessive. Theymos also cannot unilaterally change the terms of the treasurer agreement. If he wanted to reduce the fee paid to treasurers, he would need to get the treasurers to agree to a new rate, and risk that some may not agree, and be left with fewer treasurers

I'm sure most would understand adjusting the new rate, and if they aren't then I'm sure adequate replacements could be sought after. Although, theymos has stuck with Bitcoin denominations rather than USD, it might be time to consider tying it to something which is a little less volatile. I'm not sure the best approach to be honest, but I'm sure there will come a time where an adjustment will be made.  

Although, theymos sticking to Bitcoin denominations isn't always valid. There are instances unrelated to treasurers where its tied to USD value.

[posi]

Every crypto companies (an example Chipmixet) that pays in BTC have already adjusted the terms of their payment and when I read the forum financial details provided by Theymos a couple of years ago they were written in fiat currency, not BTC so it shouldn't be hard to adjustment and I am sure the treasurers will understand payment adjustment is inevitable.

[Quickseller]

Theymos has a history of wanting to keep transactions denominated in terms of bitcoin, rather than USD. He kept your treasurer agreement in place for years after the bitcoin price made the fee excessive. Theymos also cannot unilaterally change the terms of the treasurer agreement. If he wanted to reduce the fee paid to treasurers, he would need to get the treasurers to agree to a new rate, and risk that some may not agree, and be left with fewer treasurers

I'm sure most would understand adjusting the new rate, and if they aren't then I'm sure adequate replacements could be sought after. Although, theymos has stuck with Bitcoin denominations rather than USD, it might be time to consider tying it to something which is a little less volatile. I'm not sure the best approach to be honest, but I'm sure there will come a time where an adjustment will be made.  

Although, theymos sticking to Bitcoin denominations isn't always valid. There are instances unrelated to treasurers where its tied to USD value.

Yea, I am sure that most treasurers would be willing to take a pay cut (assuming they are paid what has already accrued, but remains unpaid), and to tie the pay to USD.

It is however fairly standard for the cost of escrowing to be a function of the amount being held in escrow, although as the amounts to go, the rates tend to go down. Coinbase charges .5% per year to maintain custody of bitcoin, and I would think this would be the lower bound of what an escrow provider would charge for large amounts. The four treasurers are collectively receiving 3 BTC per year and are holding 500BTC, so they are collectively charging 0.6%.

I think this is an example of the benefit of trading honestly and keeping your head down.