Bitcointalk forum holding 125 BTC

[sukbir]

I have been using this forum since 2019 but I haven't seen any changes to site. Forum has huge amount of bitcoin, I am thinking where they spend that bitcoin.


Source: https://bitcointalk.org/donate.html

Bitcointalk donation funds: https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/17RTTUAiiPqUTKtEggJPec8RxLMi2n9EZ9

[1714799292]

1714799292

[1714799292]

1714799292

[1714799292]

1714799292

[1714799292]

1714799292

[DdmrDdmr]

Some of the forum’s summarized finance history is stated in this thread (2014 .. 2018):
Question about forum finances (again, 2017).

Asking for more information on the forum’s finances, be it in terms of detail or related to 2019/2020, is better suited in Meta.

Edit: The thread is now in Meta (as opposed to prior placemente Bitcoin Discussion).

[pugman]

Few things:

Forum holds more than 125 BTC. Multiple people have access to the forum funds via Multi-sig. For more info in detail,read : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

Forum spends most of the money of Epochtalk, and to pay out mods. Epochtalk is the new forum software which has been in development for ~8 years. The board for epochtalk is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0

[OgNasty]

The funds raised to build a new forum as others have stated is much higher than 125 BTC.

If you'd like to track the progress being made on the new forum they have a github, but if you aren't into reviewing code you might find that there's a section of the forum dedicated to discussing this subject in detail and taking requests for features, etc...  Link is in the post above this.

[notblox1]

We are probably going to hodl this 125 bitcoins forever or until each member of bitcointalk becomes millionaire in dollar terms.
No changes are needed because people are using same old software and they don't want to see any changes that would requiere them to learn something new.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I have been using this forum since 2019 but I haven't seen any changes to site.

What kind of changes would you like to see? Sparkling buttons and stylish layouts? This is a serious forum bringing serious discussions about a serious world-changing project that is taken... seriously! There's no need to change anything that would spoil the spirit of this website.  

Forum has huge amount of bitcoin, I am thinking where they spend that bitcoin.

I'm sure that the web hosting and the moderation team are way too expensive. Both of them are really fast.

Not sure, but I remember reading that theymos keeps 750 bitcoins on a cold storage. I don't remember if they are for bitcointalk, though, or just for him.

[Quickseller]

Forum spends most of the money of Epochtalk, and to pay out mods. Epochtalk is the new forum software which has been in development for ~8 years. The board for epochtalk is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0

The money spent on the mods actually comes out of the forum's ad revenue, unless something has semi-recently changed.

spends most of the money of Epochtal

We are still paying to have epochtalk developed?

[mindrust]

I have been using this forum since 2019 but I haven't seen any changes to site. Forum has huge amount of bitcoin, I am thinking where they spend that bitcoin.


Source: https://bitcointalk.org/donate.html

Bitcointalk donation funds: https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/17RTTUAiiPqUTKtEggJPec8RxLMi2n9EZ9

The site is fine. What could you possibly add to this forum anyway? (I mean feature-wise) It is a damn internet forum and no matter how much you spend on it, it will still be an internet forum. The thing is forums are dead. Reddit is where it is at now.

Epochtalk or whatever it is like someone said above, is being developed for 8 years and it will probably go on another 8 years. That must tell you something: "Nobody cares."

spends most of the money of Epochtal

We are still paying to have epochtalk developed?

Who is that we?

I am not paying shit.

[actmyname]

We are still paying to have epochtalk developed?

I'm sure my great-grandchildren will love the grand opening party.

[Quickseller]

We are still paying to have epochtalk developed?

I'm sure my great-grandchildren will love the grand opening party.

I am not sure about that.

At one point, I would say that it might be time to dump the company that we hired and either go with someone new, or rely on the community to finish the development. I am not sure continuing to employ this company is money well spent.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Forum holds more than 125 BTC.

Holy shit, I didn't realize it was that much.  I actually thought it was much, much less--but then again, I don't pay much attention, since I never donated and it's none of my business what the forum does with its money.  

You said part of that gets paid to the mods, but I thought I also heard that they get paid very little and also that it depends on how much moderating they do.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points.  But jeez, with 125BTC the forum could afford to pay for a ton of moderators even if it paid well.  

And how much does it cost to upgrade the forum, anyway?  With bitcoin at $55k or so, you'd think 125BTC would more than cover it (but I won't complain about that either, since I'm kind of a fan of the way the forum is now).

The thing is forums are dead. Reddit is where it is at now.

I'd say this forum isn't dead even if the set of all forums is on the decline--and that's probably because of sig campaigns and bounties, but nevertheless bitcointalk is far from dead.  And what's Reddit anyway?  It's a collection of forums with heavy censorship.  I want no part of that, thanks.

[malevolent]

The site is fine. What could you possibly add to this forum anyway? (I mean feature-wise)

More advanced mod tools, forum stats, and U2F/FIDO2 authentication would be nice.

It is a damn internet forum and no matter how much you spend on it, it will still be an internet forum. The thing is forums are dead. Reddit is where it is at now.

Unfortunately true to a large extent, especially for English language content.

@Pharmacist

It's actually >10x as much.

[pugman]

Forum holds more than 125 BTC.

Holy shit, I didn't realize it was that much.  I actually thought it was much, much less--but then again, I don't pay much attention, since I never donated and it's none of my business what the forum does with its money.  

You said part of that gets paid to the mods, but I thought I also heard that they get paid very little and also that it depends on how much moderating they do.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points.  But jeez, with 125BTC the forum could afford to pay for a ton of moderators even if it paid well.  

And how much does it cost to upgrade the forum, anyway?  With bitcoin at $55k or so, you'd think 125BTC would more than cover it (but I won't complain about that either, since I'm kind of a fan of the way the forum is now).

I am pretty sure Forum at one point had earned/received around 6000 BTC, IIRC. One of the ref links: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236325.0

The forum also has some amount of BCH and other forks I think? theymos said he will check some time in the future but don't know anything beyond that. Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2044276.0

Furthermore, 250 bitcoins were lost due to pariapan's sudden death unfortunately. So if you want to get 62.5 BTC, better find out which motherfucker gained access to his/the forums coins. 

spends most of the money of Epochtal

We are still paying to have epochtalk developed?

I would hope not. But who knows? not me. @theymos wink wink.

[SFR10]

I have been using this forum since 2019 but I haven't seen any changes to site.

Here are some of the changes since 2019:
^{- I might've missed some but it doesn't matter.}

• DefaultTrust changes
• grin is now accepted for forum payments
• Minor selfmod enhancement
• Retention/privacy info
• Trust flags
• Bumping changes on some boards
• 10th anniversary art contest badges
• Domain name update

In addition to what others have said so far, we ^{[as "normal" users]} are only viewing the front-end of the product ^{[this forum]} as opposed to seeing all of the minor/major changes that are happening ^[regularly] in the back-end.
^{- I'm not a back-end coder by any means but I strongly believe that we've had a lot of modifications since then [we may not see or feel those, but they're part of our interactions].}

[aoluain]

True, the forum can appear to be static from a visual and developmental point of view
but there is of course a lot going on back-end.

I wasnt aware that the forum was holding 125BTC, I never gave any thought to where
or how the donations and Copper membership payments are held or spent, its not my
concern, I have FREE membership of the forum.

[UserU]

You said part of that gets paid to the mods, but I thought I also heard that they get paid very little and also that it depends on how much moderating they do.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points.  But jeez, with 125BTC the forum could afford to pay for a ton of moderators even if it paid well. 

And how much does it cost to upgrade the forum, anyway?  With bitcoin at $55k or so, you'd think 125BTC would more than cover it (but I won't complain about that either, since I'm kind of a fan of the way the forum is now).

125 BTC is more than enough to sustain the forum for generations to come. Even after Elon has launched his new space programs to cover Uranus and Pluto.

Not to mention that the weekly ad revenue from advertisers and the Copper membership can cover pretty much most of the hosting and domain expenditure, assuming that SMF renewal is not factored in as we've been stuck since 2019.

Sadly we won't know how much the mods get paid since that's part of the NDA. But as one myself, it's way less than a typical clerical job.

[eddie13]

125BTC

It's actually >10x as much.

I had a premonition the other day that some of these funds may be used to take 1st amendment battles to the Supreme Court some day..

Depending on where the way of the world goes, and how strictly theymos/this forum intend to hold on to the fundamental principles of its founding, bitcointalk could end up as a big player in future battles for liberty..

Maybe after another halving or 2..

Either that or this forum is eventually going to have to bow to the authoritarians, or seek safer refuge than the USA..

[Laudanum]

What? Much more than 125btc.

Who cares. People donated. This forum helped people many many many people become millionaires and even billionaires.
Lets not be ungrateful.
I don't see those that donated always going on about this.
I see zero need for a new forum.
So long as the forum is always here and has money to run that's all that really matters.

I mean with its current load it can run on a zx81 or something so I guess we dont have to worry lol

I mean if it came out theymos was spending some on fast cars and women or even wasting some on non essentials?

Go invest in some good projects and you'll see 125BTC isn't as unobtainable as you may think.

The forum is running now and forever let's not worry about it  
When theymos says he ran out of funds and bct is closing then we can freak out.

[Quickseller]

125BTC

It's actually >10x as much.

I had a premonition the other day that some of these funds may be used to take 1st amendment battles to the Supreme Court some day..

Theymos is not a fan of using the court system, as least as an agressor.

Maybe after another halving or 2..

I don't think it will take that long. I can see "disinformation" related laws being passed by the current congress that would very much affect how the forum operates.

[Pmalek]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points.  

You are not wrong. According to mexxer-2 post from 2016, a portion of the 25% of the bitcoin the forum generated through ads was intended for mod payments according to a formula. If the formula is correct, the most active moderators earned 0.3% or more per month, each. This was confirmed by Quickseller further down in the thread.   

[RickDeckard]

@Pharmacist

It's actually >10x as much.

Is this the answer to the question of Pharmacist regarding how much would it take to develop a new forum?

I do understand that the amount could provide some upgrades to the forum (speaking in layman terms, I don't really know how much work would have to be involved due to the forum activity/reach) but those changes can be an array of options that perhaps would suit more some users than others. I guess the work that would be put into it might not be appreciated by some or even start saying that they would much prefer the forum as it was before ...

I would, however, appreciate any kind of 2FA method to be implemented, just to increase the safety of our accounts. I do know that is hard to implement due to the current forum structure, but one can hope right?

As for the sum itself, I'm sure that we can be sure that this forum longevity will surpass our grand-grand-grand children

[Quickseller]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points. 

You are not wrong. According to mexxer-2 post from 2016, a portion of the 25% of the bitcoin the forum generated through ads was intended for mod payments according to a formula. If the formula is correct, the most active moderators earned 0.3% or more per month, each. This was confirmed by Quickseller further down in the thread.   

As far as I can tell, the percentage is now higher than 25%. The ad auctions are not bringing in much bitcoin right now and the forum has grown enough to need a lot of mods. My guess is that the mods get nearly all of the forum ad revenue and hosting is paid for out of the forum’s reserves.

[vintages]

The site is fine. What could you possibly add to this forum anyway? (I mean feature-wise)

I personally hope to one day see a 'follow' feature for users. So it will be easy to follow a user and read on their posts and comments. It's kinda tiring to keep bookmarking users for this feature.

125BTC

It's actually >10x as much.

I had a premonition the other day that some of these funds may be used to take 1st amendment battles to the Supreme Court some day..

Has the forum had any issue in the past that led to court case? Just asking.

[malevolent]

@Pharmacist

It's actually >10x as much.

Is this the answer to the question of Pharmacist regarding how much would it take to develop a new forum?

Are you serious? No, I was correcting his and the OP's faulty estimation of the amount of forum funds which are over 10x higher.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0 (this link was also posted in the third post of this thread)

[Pmalek]

I personally hope to one day see a 'follow' feature for users. So it will be easy to follow a user and read on their posts and comments. It's kinda tiring to keep bookmarking users for this feature.

Unless something has changed, such a follow users feature already exists. It was created by LoyceV. Read Follow users on Bitcointalk.org (posts and/or topics) to understand what I am talking about. All you have to do is post the user ID of the user you want to follow in a code tag. You can select to follow their posts and/or the threads they create. It's a pretty neat solution even though it's not an official forum release.

[GeorgeJohn]

I think the only Changes in the forum is the development ,innovation of user via research because new creative things always come in contact in the community everyday, op I know vividly that your emphasising on the site of the community for upgradings and other thing's which involves in the platform but get confused every time concerning the forum.

If I may ask, how does forum generate their finance used to maintain or keep this community active everyday and everytime, because I always confused via the means the controller of forum pay moderators and other people attacked to keep the community  moving forward.

[pugman]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points. 

You are not wrong. According to mexxer-2 post from 2016, a portion of the 25% of the bitcoin the forum generated through ads was intended for mod payments according to a formula. If the formula is correct, the most active moderators earned 0.3% or more per month, each. This was confirmed by Quickseller further down in the thread.   

As far as I can tell, the percentage is now higher than 25%. The ad auctions are not bringing in much bitcoin right now and the forum has grown enough to need a lot of mods. My guess is that the mods get nearly all of the forum ad revenue and hosting is paid for out of the forum’s reserves.

Do you really think so? From what I can recall mods get paid around 1000-2000$ a month on a normal basis if they handle a certain portion of reports. I am not sure if this is still the case though. Mods get paid in terms of how many reports they relatively handle. Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5294865.msg55717644#msg55717644

OTOH, I came across this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.msg2480445#msg2480445 which basically proves the forum had more than 6000 BTC in funds.

More links regards to mod payments: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265166.msg54889130#msg54889130

[Halab]

From what I can recall mods get paid around 1000-2000$ a month on a normal basis if they handle a certain portion of reports. I am not sure if this is still the case though. Mods get paid in terms of how many reports they relatively handle.

Wowow don't say things like that, people will believe it . The reality for most mods is much less.
Mods get paid in BTC, everything is on the blockchain and accessible to everyone with a minimum of research.

I know what I do for what I'm paid (and I'm not complaining), but I really can't even imagine what those who get the most must do (in terms of handled reports and all the other inconveniences).

[libert19]

We are probably going to hodl this 125 bitcoins forever or until each member of bitcointalk becomes millionaire in dollar terms.

Not really, if you check the address there are outgoing transactions every few weeks.

[actmyname]

Not really, if you check the address there are outgoing transactions every few weeks.

Outgoing transactions do not signify any transfer of value except across addresses: you cannot determine the identity of the recipient merely from the fact that address A sent to address B.

Splitting coins is common: if I use a $1000 bill (arbitrary) on a $5 transaction, there is still a large txinput being used but the actual output is unknown except to the sender and recipient (if unique).

[shahzadafzal]

Few things:

Forum holds more than 125 BTC. Multiple people have access to the forum funds via Multi-sig. For more info in detail,read : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

Forum spends most of the money of Epochtalk, and to pay out mods. Epochtalk is the new forum software which has been in development for ~8 years. The board for epochtalk is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0

What if I tell you guys forum used to hold 5500 BTC…. but that was 10 years ago.. of course there is cost involved. Running this community of 3.2m users is not free and specially cost to epochtalk , so it would be insane if someone thinks forum still holding this much BTC

The forum has about 650 760 920 1120 1720 2267 3000 5500 BTC on hand at this moment, but you can bid more than that.

[malevolent]

Do you really think so? From what I can recall mods get paid around 1000-2000$ a month on a normal basis if they handle a certain portion of reports. I am not sure if this is still the case though. Mods get paid in terms of how many reports they relatively handle. Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5294865.msg55717644#msg55717644

OTOH, I came across this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.msg2480445#msg2480445 which basically proves the forum had more than 6000 BTC in funds.

More links regards to mod payments: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265166.msg54889130#msg54889130

The vast majority get paid less than that, depends on their activity and whether they're Global mods or not (the latter are paid more per action, IIRC). Current forum funds also amount to >1250 BTC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0 (I'm writing this number here in case someone still failed to follow the link.)

Which means the forum will never have any problems to self-sustain financially.

[cryptoperkele]

What kind of changes would you like to see? Sparkling buttons and stylish layouts? This is a serious forum bringing serious discussions about a serious world-changing project that is taken... seriously! There's no need to change anything that would spoil the spirit of this website.  
---

I would like to see notifications when i get mentioned or tagged by someone, so that it would be easier to keep up with the conversation. That's the only thing i really would like to see. Otherwise everything is fine and there's no need to chance something that's working.

[shahzadafzal]

I would like to see notifications when i get mentioned or tagged by someone, so that it would be easier to keep up with the conversation. That's the only thing i really would like to see. Otherwise everything is fine and there's no need to chance something that's working.

New forum has Notifications it’s being taken care....

Meanwhile for notifications use this TryNinja Telegram bot for notifications

[Quickseller]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points. 

You are not wrong. According to mexxer-2 post from 2016, a portion of the 25% of the bitcoin the forum generated through ads was intended for mod payments according to a formula. If the formula is correct, the most active moderators earned 0.3% or more per month, each. This was confirmed by Quickseller further down in the thread.   

As far as I can tell, the percentage is now higher than 25%. The ad auctions are not bringing in much bitcoin right now and the forum has grown enough to need a lot of mods. My guess is that the mods get nearly all of the forum ad revenue and hosting is paid for out of the forum’s reserves.

Do you really think so?

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

I am not sure how much hosting costs the forum per month, but it is probably a decent amount based on the amount of traffic it gets.

[nullius]

This is one of the problems with the transparent blockchain:  Anybody in the world can peek at your finances, then offer you unsolicited advice about how to run your business.  (Or worse.)

Transparency is for fools...

...so, why have those coins not been run through JoinMarket or something similar?

I can see "disinformation" related laws being passed by the current congress that would very much affect how the forum operates.

When you Americans allowed your Democrats to steal your 2020 Presidential election with massive fraud, you may thus have doomed freedom of speech for the whole Internet.

I am still saying that here while I can; and I would not use a site where I couldn’t.  I get the feeling that I will probably someday be gone from here.  Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook could not ban me, because I never used those sites.

[malevolent]

This is one of the problems with the transparent blockchain:  Anybody in the world can peek at your finances, then offer you unsolicited advice about how to run your business.  (Or worse.)

Transparency is for fools...

...so, why have those coins not been run through JoinMarket or something similar?

The forum never was nor aimed to be a traditional business in the first place, and for the first couple years transparency wasn't a bad thing when the funds raised from selling Donator, VIP titles and donations were being used to pay for the development of the new forum. Forum mods themselves are always free to mix their coins as they please.

[OgNasty]

This is one of the problems with the transparent blockchain:  Anybody in the world can peek at your finances, then offer you unsolicited advice about how to run your business.  (Or worse.)

Indeed.  My favorite are the people who say things like, "Why haven't you spent your savings on x or y?  If I had that much saved I would have spent it on..."  Well, that's why you have no savings and are mad at innocent Bitcoin vendors for accepting your BTC...  LOL

There's no shortage of armchair quarterbacks in the crypto community.  I still think transparency is a positive with Bitcoin though.  Transparency is awesome, the community and possibly society as a whole just need to learn they aren't in control of other people's money and to use it as a verification tool, not an unsolicited business consultation request for those who aren't well versed in finance.

[Quickseller]

This is one of the problems with the transparent blockchain:  Anybody in the world can peek at your finances, then offer you unsolicited advice about how to run your business.  (Or worse.)

Transparency is for fools...

There needs to be a certain level of transparency when running a institution that accepts donations.

I can see "disinformation" related laws being passed by the current congress that would very much affect how the forum operates.

When you Americans allowed your Democrats to steal your 2020 Presidential election with massive fraud, you may thus have doomed freedom of speech for the whole Internet.

I don’t think Trump could have governed if he was able to get the election overturned. I think this is why he made the bogus claims instead of the legitimate grievances he couldshould have made. The ability of Democrats to produce propaganda is strong enough to ensure that Trump would have seen four years of Democrats controlling congress and Trump would have been unable to enact his agenda.

Hopefully, republicans will be able to delay enough so that the radical changes to America 🇺🇸 are not included in bills until after the 2022 election, where Republicans will likely take over the house, and prevent things such as the freedom of speech to be removed.

[LoyceV]

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

There's also a considerable cost for forum treasurers: (at least) 4*0.75BTC per year, or 0.25BTC per month. That's 77% of the ads revenue you mentioned.

[Quickseller]

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

There's also a considerable cost for forum treasurers: (at least) 4*0.75BTC per year, or 0.25BTC per month. That's 77% of the ads revenue you mentioned.

The fact that forum treasurers are getting paid ~45 grand/year to safeguard private keys makes me regret my escrow shenanigans from years ago even more.

I think theymos is probably overpaying for what amounts to escrow services, considering that each treasurer may not need to ever do any work, or sign any transaction.

When considering ad revenue, mod payments, and treasurer payment accruals, the forum is certainly operating in the red. The forum has the ability to operate this way for many years/decades, so theymos may not be concerned.I do think that the forum should at least allow targeted ads, which I would anticipate increase total ad revenue.

[shahzadafzal]

When considering ad revenue, mod payments, and treasurer payment accruals, the forum is certainly operating in the red. The forum has the ability to operate this way for many years/decades, so theymos may not be concerned. I do think that the forum should at least allow targeted ads, which I would anticipate increase total ad revenue.

Of course, I'm not in the same level as you guys are, on commenting about the forum and its revenue but i would like to say about targeted ads... they are never beneficial in long run. I personally loose trust on any website running targeted ads. May be forum will gain some revenue but how much user base it might lose?

I'm sure if theymos focuses on ads, it won’t take long  for any other forums like "stackoverflow" to take over all the bitcoin related technical discussion.

If current ads revenue is enough to pay expenses and bitciontalk's BTC stash not depleting very fast... introducing ads for profit or additional revenue...  i doubt if it will be beneficial in the future.

Ad free and trust worthy content is the still the key... newspapers and many media outlets still quoting posts of Satoshi and Hal Finney from bitcointalk and i wish it stays the same way.

[OgNasty]

All theymos would have to do is take control of signature advertisements instead of having them run by campaign managers and the forum could raise a fortune.  This is just one idea, there are plenty more.  As long as we don't let this forum fall into complete disrepair or become more of a troll haven, there is plenty of value that could be unlocked in the future.  Granted it seems we have been drifting in that direction for a long time, but a couple of simple changes would be capable of righting the ship.  It's just a matter of necessity forcing change I guess, and we are a long way from this forum needing financial assistance. 

[Quickseller]

When considering ad revenue, mod payments, and treasurer payment accruals, the forum is certainly operating in the red. The forum has the ability to operate this way for many years/decades, so theymos may not be concerned. I do think that the forum should at least allow targeted ads, which I would anticipate increase total ad revenue.

Of course, I'm not in the same level as you guys are, on commenting about the forum and its revenue but i would like to say about targeted ads... they are never beneficial in long run. I personally loose trust on any website running targeted ads. May be forum will gain some revenue but how much user base it might lose?

That doesn't make sense to me. Why do you not trust sites running targeted ads? Someone who regularly views, but doesn't post in the gambling sub would probably be interested in ads for a casino, while someone who posts in the altcoin sub might be more interested in an exchange.

Your post history is no secret. The forum is already collecting enough information to serve targeted ads, but for some unknown reason is not doing anything with the data it is collecting on its users.

[LoyceV]

That doesn't make sense to me. Why do you not trust sites running targeted ads?

It depends: targeted advertising makes me think about giants like Google, who build profiles based on your browsing habits and everything they know about you. I wouldn't like it if Bitcointalk starts using Adwords, even though I'm okay with it on for instance a car forum. I care more about my privacy in relation to crypto than other subjects.

Someone who regularly views, but doesn't post in the gambling sub would probably be interested in ads for a casino, while someone who posts in the altcoin sub might be more interested in an exchange.

I'd be totally okay with advertising targeting only certain boards. Most gambling signature campaigns have special requirements for the gambling board too.

Your post history is no secret. The forum is already collecting enough information to serve targeted ads, but for some unknown reason is not doing anything with the data it is collecting on its users.

If I have to guess, it's because of the forum's mission:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

And:

the forum has enough reserves for a long time

And theymos doesn't want more work:

I've actually thought about getting rid of the forum ads, since it's often a big headache

[Lorence.xD]

Few things:

Forum holds more than 125 BTC. Multiple people have access to the forum funds via Multi-sig. For more info in detail,read : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

Forum spends most of the money of Epochtalk, and to pay out mods. Epochtalk is the new forum software which has been in development for ~8 years. The board for epochtalk is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0

Do they invest or something to keep a steady bitcoin because paying mods is going to be draining those bitcoin and the forum software that you are talking about is going to add to that expenses too. Are there still donators to this day that bitcoin price is high.

[pugman]

Wowow don't say things like that, people will believe it . The reality for most mods is much less.
Mods get paid in BTC, everything is on the blockchain and accessible to everyone with a minimum of research.

I know what I do for what I'm paid (and I'm not complaining), but I really can't even imagine what those who get the most must do (in terms of handled reports and all the other inconveniences).

My bad, I was certain I read somewhere, where a mod said they got paid around 1000$ in bitcoin, at that time. Not saying its the case right now, but still don't want to cause a confusion. Apologizo.

You mods really are the goats and are hella under-appreciated. Let this post be an appreciation for everything YOU and the other mods do. You make the forum more nice for us. So thank you.

The vast majority get paid less than that, depends on their activity and whether they're Global mods or not (the latter are paid more per action, IIRC). Current forum funds also amount to >1250 BTC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0 (I'm writing this number here in case someone still failed to follow the link.)

Which means the forum will never have any problems to self-sustain financially.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that, I didn't know. I was under the impression that the payment scale was only based on reports graded/wtv. Good to know.

What if I tell you guys forum used to hold 5500 BTC…. but that was 10 years ago.. of course there is cost involved. Running this community of 3.2m users is not free and specially cost to epochtalk , so it would be insane if someone thinks forum still holding this much BTC

The forum has about 650 760 920 1120 1720 2267 3000 5500 BTC on hand at this moment, but you can bid more than that.

I am aware of this. Forum had more than  6000 BTC too: in the year 2013, the forum had received a grand total of 6499 BTC.

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

I am not sure how much hosting costs the forum per month, but it is probably a decent amount based on the amount of traffic it gets.

Wow thats some zuckerburg skills right ere, Mister. Pretty cool, pretty cool; guess you learn something errydayyayayay. What I am suprised by is even with such a huge btc price surge, people are still spending crazy money on forum ads(0.325 btc = 18,950 USD rn).

Few things:

Forum holds more than 125 BTC. Multiple people have access to the forum funds via Multi-sig. For more info in detail,read : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

Forum spends most of the money of Epochtalk, and to pay out mods. Epochtalk is the new forum software which has been in development for ~8 years. The board for epochtalk is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0

Do they invest or something to keep a steady bitcoin because paying mods is going to be draining those bitcoin and the forum software that you are talking about is going to add to that expenses too. Are there still donators to this day that bitcoin price is high.

No, the btc is just kept in a multi-sig wallet. And the last donator that donated was back in 2017? And mods dont get paid from the donation money, they get paid from the forum ads that are sold.
 

[Onuohakk]

I don't think there is much stuff to be added to the already existing forum. The forum formation is fascinating compared to other forums I have participated in. I believe that there will be other changes that going to occur in years to come but for now, let's enjoy what the forum got for us already. The people in charge of running this forum knows how they get the revenue to put the forum for a better experience

[Quickseller]

The last mod payment resulted in the mods getting a total of 0.1844BTC, and was sent in the middle of March. I looked at the previous ad auctions going back a month (based on the end date) prior to the mod payment being sent, and the forum received a total of 0.325BTC from selling ads. So it looks like last month, the forum spent about 56% of their revenue on mods. At current prices, that leaves about $8100 to pay for hosting, and any other expenses the forum may incur.

I am not sure how much hosting costs the forum per month, but it is probably a decent amount based on the amount of traffic it gets.

[...]What I am suprised by is even with such a huge btc price surge, people are still spending crazy money on forum ads(0.325 btc = 18,950 USD rn).

 

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

[OgNasty]

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

With the much higher Bitcoin exchange rate this year, I believe it would be making an assumption to think the BTC payment to treasurers would remain the same going forward.  I find it a bit unlikely that this would be the case.  I would even go as far as to propose an 80% reduction in the BTC amount paid to treasurers going forward and think that could be done by theymos without anyone involved having an issue.

[Welsh]

I mean we've got to have a decent budget for our annual moderator parties, and april fool shenanigans, right?

Do you really think so? From what I can recall mods get paid around 1000-2000$ a month on a normal basis if they handle a certain portion of reports. I am not sure if this is still the case though. Mods get paid in terms of how many reports they relatively handle. Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5294865.msg55717644#msg55717644

OTOH, I came across this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.msg2480445#msg2480445 which basically proves the forum had more than 6000 BTC in funds.

More links regards to mod payments: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265166.msg54889130#msg54889130

Global moderators maybe, but local board, and general moderators tend to get much less than that. Usually, in the low hundreds depending on activity, and how many actions they take as a moderator. For those calling for transparency regarding mod payments, its super easy to find out how much a moderator is getting paid.

Basically, staff get paid based on a hidden algorithm probably only known by theymos.

[Quickseller]

The 0.325BTC amount is for the entire month, and does not appear to pay all the forum's expenses. As I noted, the forum spent 56% of that on mod payments, and Loyce noted the forum accrued a liability to pay the treasurers 77% that. That means the forum spent 133% of ad revenue on expenses before hosting costs, which I imagine to be four figures /USD per month.

With the much higher Bitcoin exchange rate this year, I believe it would be making an assumption to think the BTC payment to treasurers would remain the same going forward.  I find it a bit unlikely that this would be the case.  I would even go as far as to propose an 80% reduction in the BTC amount paid to treasurers going forward and think that could be done by theymos without anyone involved having an issue.

Theymos has a history of wanting to keep transactions denominated in terms of bitcoin, rather than USD. He kept your treasurer agreement in place for years after the bitcoin price made the fee excessive. Theymos also cannot unilaterally change the terms of the treasurer agreement. If he wanted to reduce the fee paid to treasurers, he would need to get the treasurers to agree to a new rate, and risk that some may not agree, and be left with fewer treasurers

[Welsh]

Theymos has a history of wanting to keep transactions denominated in terms of bitcoin, rather than USD. He kept your treasurer agreement in place for years after the bitcoin price made the fee excessive. Theymos also cannot unilaterally change the terms of the treasurer agreement. If he wanted to reduce the fee paid to treasurers, he would need to get the treasurers to agree to a new rate, and risk that some may not agree, and be left with fewer treasurers

I'm sure most would understand adjusting the new rate, and if they aren't then I'm sure adequate replacements could be sought after. Although, theymos has stuck with Bitcoin denominations rather than USD, it might be time to consider tying it to something which is a little less volatile. I'm not sure the best approach to be honest, but I'm sure there will come a time where an adjustment will be made.  

Although, theymos sticking to Bitcoin denominations isn't always valid. There are instances unrelated to treasurers where its tied to USD value.

[posi]

Every crypto companies (an example Chipmixet) that pays in BTC have already adjusted the terms of their payment and when I read the forum financial details provided by Theymos a couple of years ago they were written in fiat currency, not BTC so it shouldn't be hard to adjustment and I am sure the treasurers will understand payment adjustment is inevitable.

[Quickseller]

Theymos has a history of wanting to keep transactions denominated in terms of bitcoin, rather than USD. He kept your treasurer agreement in place for years after the bitcoin price made the fee excessive. Theymos also cannot unilaterally change the terms of the treasurer agreement. If he wanted to reduce the fee paid to treasurers, he would need to get the treasurers to agree to a new rate, and risk that some may not agree, and be left with fewer treasurers

I'm sure most would understand adjusting the new rate, and if they aren't then I'm sure adequate replacements could be sought after. Although, theymos has stuck with Bitcoin denominations rather than USD, it might be time to consider tying it to something which is a little less volatile. I'm not sure the best approach to be honest, but I'm sure there will come a time where an adjustment will be made.  

Although, theymos sticking to Bitcoin denominations isn't always valid. There are instances unrelated to treasurers where its tied to USD value.

Yea, I am sure that most treasurers would be willing to take a pay cut (assuming they are paid what has already accrued, but remains unpaid), and to tie the pay to USD.

It is however fairly standard for the cost of escrowing to be a function of the amount being held in escrow, although as the amounts to go, the rates tend to go down. Coinbase charges .5% per year to maintain custody of bitcoin, and I would think this would be the lower bound of what an escrow provider would charge for large amounts. The four treasurers are collectively receiving 3 BTC per year and are holding 500BTC, so they are collectively charging 0.6%.

I think this is an example of the benefit of trading honestly and keeping your head down.