Extra security for a Wasabi Wallet?

[OROBTC]

...

I have used the Wasabi Wallet, but cannot claim to be an expert user.  One thing has bothered me however about it from a privacy standpoint.

If you start off using the default wallet name "Wallet0", do various operations that might be of interest, and then sometime later send all of you BTC elsewhere (which I have done various times), and then click "Open Wallets Folder" (via the Wallet Manager), you get a folder with get a JSON file named "Wallet0".  If you then delete that Wallet0 file, then it disappears from the Wallet Manager (as I would expect).

I once went on to create a "Wallet1" to do other operations, and then deleted that in the same way.

Now if I should go and generate a new wallet, and call it "Wallet0" (for reasons...), will that give me a brand new wallet with a different list of seed words?  In other words, would this "new Wallet0" be completely different than the "old Wallet0"?


Bonus question: Would repeat naming, using and then deleting "Wallet0" actually REMOVE that info from a hard drive?

[Charles-Tim]

I once went on to create a "Wallet1" to do other operations, and then deleted that in the same way.

Now if I should go and generate a new wallet, and call it "Wallet0" (for reasons...), will that give me a brand new wallet with a different list of seed words?  In other words, would this "new Wallet0" be completely different than the "old Wallet0"?

Because you create wallet1 and delete it does not mean Wallet0 will be deleted unless you deleted it, and if you deleted Wallet0 along, that means you will need to generate another new seed phrase for another wallet entirely, or use the old seed phrase for wallet restoration. Wasabi wallet makes use of hardened pathway to create a wallet another wallet, which means new wallets will be generated.

According to your question, so far seed phrase are newly generated and different from the old one, it means another wallet is created which is not related to the old one.

Would repeat naming, using and then deleting "Wallet0" actually REMOVE that info from a hard drive?

All I could comment here is that anytime you make chances to your wallet, make sure you backup the changes also, and know that possibly the wallet backup can be corrupted at anytime. It is also very important to also rely on the seed phrase backup in case, which is also most reliable. But, if you backup your wallet file and name it A, if you change it to B without backup, it will been seen as A if restored from the hard drive to another new wallet if not corrupted.

[pooya87]

Bonus question: Would repeat naming, using and then deleting "Wallet0" actually REMOVE that info from a hard drive?

When you delete a file from disk, it is only truly removed and becomes unrecoverable if the same place on the disk is used to write something else. In other words deleting wallet0 is not enough, the bits there have to be overwritten. But no wallets does or should do this ever because the wallet file should be stored encrypted on disk (unless user demands otherwise) and the assumption is that user's hardware is not accessible by any malicious third party otherwise they have more things to worry about than their privacy!

So creating another wallet file WalletX where is X is 0,1,... can only replace the original wallet0 if the WalletX is written in the same place on disk (to overwrite the previous one).

[hugeblack]

Now if I should go and generate a new wallet, and call it "Wallet0" (for reasons...), will that give me a brand new wallet with a different list of seed words?  In other words, would this "new Wallet0" be completely different than the "old Wallet0"?

Yes, that is why it is called a new wallet. The creation of new wallet is random, so the probability of getting a wallet similar to the previous one is almost zero.

Bonus question: Would repeat naming, using and then deleting "Wallet0" actually REMOVE that info from a hard drive?

No. AFAIK You will not get two "Wallet0" wallets, one of which is deleted (it can only be obtained  using any recovery program) and the other is your new "Wallet0" wallet.
Unless you fill your entire disk (to overwrite it,) deleting it will not increase your privacy.

[dkbit98]

Now if I should go and generate a new wallet, and call it "Wallet0" (for reasons...), will that give me a brand new wallet with a different list of seed words?  In other words, would this "new Wallet0" be completely different than the "old Wallet0"?

The only way to get same wallet0 is if you go and choose option Recover Wallet in wallet manager settings.
You can add extra security to your wasabi wallets with adding secure password, but make sure you have backup written in safe place because without that password you will not be able to access your wallet or recover your funds.

Bonus question: Would repeat naming, using and then deleting "Wallet0" actually REMOVE that info from a hard drive?

If you permanently delete file from your hard drive and use some overwrite techniques it would be very hard for anyone to recover that file and without password nobody could open it and see your transaction history.

[Chikito]

You can add extra security to your wasabi wallets with adding secure password, but make sure you have backup written in safe place because without that password you will not be able to access your wallet or recover your funds.

Wasabi password same as passphrase or 13 word/25 word BIP39. this means the user can generate a new address/wallet with the same 12 seed and a different password.

when recovery to another wallet, a wasabi password must put in the passphrase box after 12 seed.

The user can also generate a wallet without a password to avoid confusion when to recovery to another wallet.

[ABCbits]

Bonus question: Would repeat naming, using and then deleting "Wallet0" actually REMOVE that info from a hard drive?

If you want to actually remove that from the hard drive, you should use external software to do it. For Windows you want to use BleachBit. If you're linux user, tools called shred should be available by default.

However, if you use SSD, deleting the file normally (not moving to recycle bin) will ensure the file deleted permanently after some time because TRIM operation.

[dkbit98]

Wasabi password same as passphrase or 13 word/25 word BIP39. this means the user can generate a new address/wallet with the same 12 seed and a different password.

Actually I think that Wasabi wallet is by default using BIP38 passphrase-protected private key and that is not the same as BIP39.

                      +--------------+
                      | Entropy      |
                      +--------------+
  +------------+             |
  | Word list  +------------>+
  +------------+             |
                      +------v-------+
                      | Mnemonics    |
                      +--------------+
                             |
                   +--------->
                   |         |
                   |  +------v-------+
                   |  | Seed         |
                   |  +--------------+
                   |         |
   +-----------+   |         |
   | Password  +---+  +------v-------+
   +-----------+   |  | Extended Key |
                   |  +--------------+
                   |         |
                   |         |
                   |  +------v-------+
                   |  | Private key  |     ** This step is needed to use bip38
                   |  +--------------+
                   |         |              +-------------+
                   +-------->+<-------------+  Network    |
                             |              +-------------+
                      +------v-------+
                      | Encrypted    |
                      | secret       |
                      +--------------+
                             |
                             |
                             |
                  +--------------------+
                  | Save encrypted     |
                  | secret+chaincode+  |
                  | Fingerprint+ExtPub |
                  +--------------------+

https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/WalletGeneration.html#generating-the-wallet-step-by-step

[Chikito]

Actually I think that Wasabi wallet is by default using BIP38 passphrase-protected private key and that is not the same as BIP39.

I think all wallets use that process encrypted. we can't show the private key on trezor or ledger also.

at the top charts, the proses begin with mnemonic BIP 39 seed. This means the user can recover it using another bitcoin wallet by input 12 + password/passphrase. when using the bip39 tool, we can get the private key, this means BIP 38 will wear off on its own, the private key star with K or L, not 6P.

CMIIW.

[OROBTC]

...

Thank you all very much for your explanations, I believe you have answered both of my questions:

1)  ("Wallet0") NAME can be re-used with a different seed, as long as I am OK with having the original Wallet0 empty of BTC, for example.

2)  Even if I have, say, a total of three "Wallet0" 's (two deleted, one active), all of that information STAYS on my hard disk, I am not about to monkey around BleachBit-ting...

The reason I originally asked those questions is I wanted to see if I could eliminate all of my transactions from my Wallet0's from view if someone got into my computer.  Looks like that info does not disappear, pity that.

Please let me know if I do misunderstand something (CMIIW -- had to look that up), thanks!


*    *    *


DroomieChikito and dkbit98 offered responses that make me want to ask something else.  In the Hardware Wallets thread I very recently asked about Trezor wallets, especially in conjunction with using the optional "13th Word" (passphrase) to better secure my funds.  

DC and dk, I wonder if Wasabi can recover a Trezor wallet secured like that.  Here is what I "think" (?) you might be writing:

Trezor:  (BIP 39) "Word1", "Word2", ... "Word12", "passphrase"    (which I have on my Trezor device), and with luck then...:

Does that mean on Wasabi:  (exact same words as on Trezor) "Word1", "Word2", ... "Word 12", "password" (exact same "passphrase" as on Trezor) would generate my Trezor wallet on Wasabi?

IIUC, that would be a powerful tool for Wasabi.  That would mean that indeed I could have access to my Trezor wallet even if their server "goes away" and I do not want to mess with LINUX or Electrum, both beyond my scope.

Please pardon me asking questions that may be basic, but while I am a Bitcoin fan, there are MANY places in Bitcoinistan I have never visited.   

Please comment, and many thanks again.

[Chikito]

Does that mean on Wasabi:  (exact same words as on Trezor) "Word1", "Word2", ... "Word 12", "password" (exact same "passphrase" as on Trezor) would generate my Trezor wallet on Wasabi?

IIUC, that would be a powerful tool for Wasabi.  That would mean that indeed I could have access to my Trezor wallet even if their server "goes away" and I do not want to mess with LINUX or Electrum, both beyond my scope.

Please pardon me asking questions that may be basic, but while I am a Bitcoin fan, there are MANY places in Bitcoinistan I have never visited.  

Please comment, and many thanks again.

Yes, Trezor and Wasabi use the same as BIP39 mnemonic seed, but in this case, wasabi used bech32 address, if you want to access it to trezor, don't use wallet.trezor.io because that for nested segwit (3). you will be confusing when get different address.

Use Trezor suite aplication to get the bech32 address.

[OROBTC]

Does that mean on Wasabi:  (exact same words as on Trezor) "Word1", "Word2", ... "Word 12", "password" (exact same "passphrase" as on Trezor) would generate my Trezor wallet on Wasabi?

IIUC, that would be a powerful tool for Wasabi.  That would mean that indeed I could have access to my Trezor wallet even if their server "goes away" and I do not want to mess with LINUX or Electrum, both beyond my scope.

Please pardon me asking questions that may be basic, but while I am a Bitcoin fan, there are MANY places in Bitcoinistan I have never visited.  

Please comment, and many thanks again.

Yes, Trezor and Wasabi use the same as BIP39 mnemonic seed, but in this case, wasabi used bech32 address, if you want to access it to trezor, don't use wallet.trezor.io because that for nested segwit (3). you will be confusing when get different address.

Use Trezor suite aplication to get the bech32 address.

Yes, that worked.  I installed Trezor Suite, set up a bech32 address, backed up the wallet in Wasabi, and made a transaction.

That's a really great to be able to back up a passphrase-protected Trezor wallet to Wasabi if necessary.

Many thanks!