Electrum 4.1.0 released - Feature discussion

[DireWolfM14]

I just learned that Electrum has released a new version, 4.1.0.  I read through the release notes, and it seems like most of the updates are related to Lightning Network.  This is good news.  Electrum is probably the most popular bitcoin wallet around, and as it become more and more user-friendly for lightning features it'll help the network gain more usage. 

I do, however have a question about this update that does not appear to be tied to the Lightning Network:

* The wallet creation wizard no longer asks for a seed type, and
   creates segwit wallets with bech32 addresses. Older seed types can
   still be created with the command line.

I haven't had a chance to download and play with the new version, so I'm not sure what this is getting at.  Does this mean that Electrum will no longer produce "Electrum Specific" seed phrases with derivation paths specified by the checksums?

[1714953537]

1714953537

[1714953537]

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[1714953537]

1714953537

[1714953537]

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[nc50lc]

-snip-
I haven't had a chance to download and play with the new version, so I'm not sure what this is getting at.  Does this mean that Electrum will no longer produce "Electrum Specific" seed phrases with derivation paths specified by the checksums?

It still does, they just removed the seed type selection in the GUI and will produce SegWit seed by default.
And as stated, any advanced user can still create Legacy seed phrase in the console using the command:

Code:

make_seed(132,"","standard")

It's still there: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/electrum/commands.py#L336-L341

If you mean it'll use the standard BIP39 seed, try to paste a newly created seed from v4.1.0 to https://iancoleman.io/bip39/, still "invalid".
-edit-
Match Electrum's default entropy of 132bits: github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/electrum/mnemonic.py#L194-L195

[HCP]

No, it means you no longer get to choose between "Legacy" (aka P2PKH) and "SegWit" (aka P2WPKH) wallets during the wallet creation wizard...

Specifically, this dialog has been removed:



So it is "forcing" users into creating new "Native SegWit" wallets only... obviously, it will still let you restore wallets using older legacy seeds, you just won't be able to create them any more (unless you use command line or console)

[pooya87]

It's about time they did this! After about 4 years if there is someone out there that doesn't accept Bech32 addresses then users shouldn't interact with that person or service at all because they are either malicious or incompetent to not add a 4 year old Bitcoin feature.

[NotATether]

It's about time they did this! After about 4 years if there is someone out there that doesn't accept Bech32 addresses then users shouldn't interact with that person or service at all because they are either malicious or incompetent to not add a 4 year old Bitcoin feature.

Now if only they changed the fees listing to use sats/vbytes too.

It makes no sense to leave the fees listed as sats/byte now that most users will only know how to make segwit wallets now. The fee unit should be adjusted to match what people see on block explorers, and Electrum itself links to them so this is a big deal.

There's been a Github issue about this lingering around for months but not much progress is being made on this.

[Coin-Keeper]

It's about time they did this! After about 4 years if there is someone out there that doesn't accept Bech32 addresses then users shouldn't interact with that person or service at all because they are either malicious or incompetent to not add a 4 year old Bitcoin feature.

Now if only they changed the fees listing to use sats/vbytes too.

It makes no sense to leave the fees listed as sats/byte now that most users will only know how to make segwit wallets now. The fee unit should be adjusted to match what people see on block explorers, and Electrum itself links to them so this is a big deal.

There's been a Github issue about this lingering around for months but not much progress is being made on this.

Have you been getting charged incorrect fees during transactions using bc1, or is this a matter of just making it "clear" as to what will be paid when you transmit?

[TryNinja]

Have you been getting charged incorrect fees during transactions using bc1, or is this a matter of just making it "clear" as to what will be paid when you transmit?

You would think you chose a fee of 8 sat/Byte when you actually ended up sending the transaction with a fee of 8 sat/vByte.

Here's my last transaction: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/752db877a59f1673939eece3feb7c73961d1c179ff73fc0f7f9e37a2d847efdd

Electrum says:
Fee: 0.00001448 BTC  ( 8. sat/byte )

Blockchair says:
Fee per byte: 4 satoshi
Fee per vbyte: 8 satoshi

[NotATether]

Have you been getting charged incorrect fees during transactions using bc1, or is this a matter of just making it "clear" as to what will be paid when you transmit?

You would think you chose a fee of 8 sat/Byte when you actually ended up sending the transaction with a fee of 8 sat/vByte.

Here's my last transaction: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/752db877a59f1673939eece3feb7c73961d1c179ff73fc0f7f9e37a2d847efdd

Electrum says:
Fee: 0.00001448 BTC  ( 8. sat/byte )

Blockchair says:
Fee per byte: 4 satoshi
Fee per vbyte: 8 satoshi

Exactly. I never had this feeling myself, but it's possible for newbies to think that they overpaid on fees because their block explorer is showing a much smaller quantity for sats/byte.

[dkbit98]

This is a big release and they already released 4.1.1 with some updates and fixes, but if some newbie wants to generate old format addresses for whatever reasons, without command line or console, he can always keep older Electrum version 4.0.9.

Release 4.1.1 (April 2, 2021)
 * fix Qt crash with the swap dialog
 * fix Kivy bug with scrollbar (#7155)
 * fix localization issues (#7158 #4621)
 * fix python crash with swaps (#7160)
 * other minor fixes

Now if only they changed the fees listing to use sats/vbytes too.

It's about time, and they can still keep sat/byte if someone is not using bech32 address format.
If Wasabi wallet can have this, so can Electrum.

[pooya87]

It's about time, and they can still keep sat/byte if someone is not using bech32 address format.

It was just a UI change though not the code. The code has been correct and it was both reporting and measuring sizes in virtual byte unit but the UI was the only place that hasn't been updated and showed byte. Which wasn't the worst thing in my opinion since the Electrum target includes newbies that may have been confused to see that little "v" there!

[Chikito]

If you mean it'll use the standard BIP39 seed, try to paste a newly created seed from v4.1.0 to https://iancoleman.io/bip39/, still "invalid".

The user will get it random, some time will be valid in the bip39 tool. but of course, will get a different address.

example:

Code:

pride elevator change record above cave diamond breeze gift kind mad brush

[nc50lc]

The user will get it random, some time will be valid in the bip39 tool. but of course, will get a different address.

I wouldn't call it "Random", it happens by chance that the 12 words is a valid BIP39 seed when BIP39's checksum matched.
Since both seed phrases use same wordlist, there's a chance to form a valid combination that will work in both but the chance is too low to consider it random.

Should've added this note?: "there's a low chance that it will be valid though"

[Chikito]

Should've added this note?: "there's a low chance that it will be valid though"

That first time I generate after upgrading to 4.1.0. when trying to create another seed, BIP 39 tool saying invalid, and so on.

If could be rare, I present that seed for research.

[tranthidung]

Should've added this note?: "there's a low chance that it will be valid though"

That first time I generate after upgrading to 4.1.0. when trying to create another seed, BIP 39 tool saying invalid, and so on.

If could be rare, I present that seed for research.

Weird!

One minor thing: The Bitcoin icon is designed in Light Blue color. I assume we all accept the default color of Bitcoin (BTC) is Orange. It's not Green (as BCash) or Light Blue.  

This update wipes out the default list of receiving addresses, users have to create each receiving address manually.

[DireWolfM14]

Yeah, I had misinterpreted the changelog.  Thanks for clearing things up.

One minor thing: The Bitcoin icon is designed in Light Blue color. I assume we all accept the default color of Bitcoin (BTC) is Orange. It's not Green (as BCash) or Light Blue.  

The older version had a blue icon also.  Maybe because Electrum's logo is blue?

This update wipes out the default list of receiving addresses, users have to create each receiving address manually.

Click on "View" in the menu bar and enable the "Addresses" tag, you'll be able to see them listed there.

So, I've been playing with the console commands to create a seed, and I'm having trouble with it.  I can get it to work in with cli from the terminal, but I can't get it to work from the console.

For example this works just fine from the terminal:

Code:

~$ python3 ~/.local/bin/electrum make_seed --seed_type=segwit --nbits=256 --offline

But I can't get this to work in the console, and the error code isn't very helpful:

Code:

make_seed(seed_type=segwit, nbits=256)

Although, leaving out the seed type does the same thing, and that does work.  But if you want a standard seed, and replace segwit with standard it still doesn't work.

What am I doing wrong?  Do I have the syntax fubar'd?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Now if only they changed the fees listing to use sats/vbytes too.

Lol, I guess I missed that thread completely--and I never paid that much attention to what Electrum displayed as far as the units of the fee, so I never realized there was such a thing as vbytes.  I see from that thread that I'm not the only one who finds it confusing--or I should say I find it not worth trying to figure out with the limited neuronal RAM up in my noggin.

I just upgraded to 4.1.0 today but haven't really taken a look at what's new.  Probably stuff that's too technical for me is my guess, as I'm a very simple Electrum user who doesn't require all the fancy features that keep getting added with these updates.

It's still the best software wallet out there IMO--the best looking one and probably the easiest to use, too.

[khaled0111]

But I can't get this to work in the console, and the error code isn't very helpful:

Code:

make_seed(seed_type=segwit, nbits=256)

Did you get a NameError error message?
Try this syntax:

Code:

make_seed(seed_type="standard", nbits=256)

The seed_type value (segwit/standard) has to be inserted inside quotation marks.

I didn't install 4.1 yet but the above syntax works just fine on 4.0.9 and it should work on later versions aswell.

[nc50lc]

One minor thing: The Bitcoin icon is designed in Light Blue color. I assume we all accept the default color of Bitcoin (BTC) is Orange. It's not Green (as BCash) or Light Blue.  

Nice, they've added it since 4.0x; 3.xx used to not include a Bitcoin icon in the receive tab.
Changing the icon into orange would be simple, unless if the developers have a good reason to color it blue.
-edit-
Upon checking the icon, it looks like "rushly" painted over with color blue from orange (default), so they must have purposely colored it blue.
Some of the color orange are still there probably because of non-auto-selected pixels and it was colored with paint bucket tool.
Judge the edit yourself:

-edit2-
Orange doesn't look bad but it's similar to lightning icon's color, perhaps that's the reason why it's blue:

At least the angle is correct.

Should've added this note?: "there's a low chance that it will be valid though"

That first time I generate after upgrading to 4.1.0. when trying to create another seed, BIP 39 tool saying invalid, and so on.

Weird!

That's as expected, the chance that it'll be valid is low.
That extended conversation about being valid in BIP39 is far from the original context of my first reply anyways (a bit 'nitpicky' IMO).

So, I've been playing with the console commands to create a seed, and I'm having trouble with it.  I can get it to work in with cli from the terminal, but I can't get it to work from the console.

Code:

make_seed(seed_type=segwit, nbits=256)

The first reply has another example that will work in the GUI's console.

[dkbit98]

Orange doesn't look bad but it's similar to lightning icon's color, perhaps that's the reason why it's blue

Good catch noticing it but this looks bad in so many ways, like kids playing with photoshop instead of just using replace a color (green color is obviously not allowed).
They should never use paint bucket tool in photoshop to change any color, if anything they should be changing lightning flash icon from orange to blue and not bitcoin icon color.

[pooya87]

Nice, they've added it since 4.0x; 3.xx used to not include a Bitcoin icon in the receive tab.

The file itself seems to have been added back in August 2019 from version tag 4.0.0b0 by [uel=https://github.com/SomberNight]@SomberNight[/url] on commit 3d0b5fc8; you may want to ping him and ask why this decision was made.

Orange doesn't look bad but it's similar to lightning icon's color, perhaps that's the reason why it's blue

Good catch noticing it but this looks bad in so many ways, like kids playing with photoshop instead of just using replace a color (green color is obviously not allowed).
They should never use paint bucket tool in photoshop to change any color, if anything they should be changing lightning flash icon from orange to blue and not bitcoin icon color.

It doesn't really matter though! The size of the icon is so small when it is place in the UI that those pixels are not even visible since they are all merged together anyways. So even if it were red it still wouldn't change a thing.