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Author Topic: What is the absolute lowest fee per byte you can send  (Read 185 times)
yat97
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April 04, 2021, 06:10:47 PM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (2), bitmover (2)
 #1

Before it gets stuck in limbo indefinitely?

Can I just set it at 10 Sat/B and still have a payment go through? Even if it takes days or so?

Is there a sat/B fee per byte calculator where I can put in numbers and check? I know it varies by day as well.

I know of this one but Idk what Im looking at or how it works. https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/fee-calculator/
I just need a calculator where I can put in how many sat/B for the fee to the amount I'm sending.

So like a payment of 20 dollars worth of bitcoin, then 100 dollars worth of bitcoin.

I want to go as low as possible but I hear if you go too low, it gets stuck in limbo for all eternity. Or something like that.

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April 04, 2021, 06:18:30 PM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #2

Because its Easter Sunday you might be in luck if you have transactions to send.

According to my estimator on electrum, a fee of only 6 sats per byte is required at the moment for a confirm within 5 hours.

If doing this regularly, you might get a notification via email when fees are low if you click notify at the bottom of this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.msg56707521#msg56707521

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April 04, 2021, 06:30:17 PM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (2)
 #3

Can I just set it at 10 Sat/B and still have a payment go through? Even if it takes days or so?
It will be good to make use of segwit addresses for payment, the fee paid will be lower if compared to legacy addresses, and the transaction fee will be in vbyte. 10 sat/vbyte is still a good fee especially during weekends, but you may need to increase the feerate during the weekdays as the mempool will be more congested. Just know that lowest fee are always during weekends, still lower further on Sundays.

Is there a sat/B fee per byte calculator where I can put in numbers and check? I know it varies by day as well.
What needed most is fee estimator. You can try mempool.space or mempool.observer. with such fee estimator, you can use it to set your feerate (sat/vbyte) on your wallet for more accurate estimation.

I want to go as low as possible but I hear if you go too low, it gets stuck in limbo for all eternity. Or something like that.
If the fee is too low, the transaction can be stuck, use mempool.space to set your fee. Or, you can use the estimators on wallets like electrum that runs good feerate estimation algorithm.





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April 04, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #4

I've made a transaction today at 6 sat/vByte and went through in less than 2h.
But the week-end is ending and the fees may have a jump again.

However, the coins should not be "stuck in limbo indefinitely". At some point, if not confirmed, all mempools will forget it (unless some software keeps broadcasting it) and they'll return to you.
Also, as a good precaution, I suggest you set the RBF flag so you can replace the transaction in case of "surprises".
About the fee, you can set some 5-8 sat/vByte and hope that tonight or next week-end your tx gets confirmed, or set it to a little over 10 sat/vByte to also have a chance to use ViaBTC free accelerator.

PS. I am watching the fees/movement at https://mempool.space/ ; you will see that about 1h ago a 6 sat/vByte block was mined, you'll see that there were too few blocks in the last hour, hence there's a chance that next hour there will be more than 6 block/hour and the fee could fall again.

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April 04, 2021, 07:15:58 PM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (2)
 #5

Before it gets stuck in limbo indefinitely?

Can I just set it at 10 Sat/B and still have a payment go through? Even if it takes days or so?

Is there a sat/B fee per byte calculator where I can put in numbers and check? I know it varies by day as well.

I made a calculator myself, you can check it out here:
https://bitcoindata.science/plot-your-transaction-in-mempool.html

You need to know how many inputs/outputs you have, and what is the format of your addresses.
After adding all details you can choose a fee per byte (fee rate) and you will see how much you will spend in a transaction.


Quote
I want to go as low as possible but I hear if you go too low, it gets stuck in limbo for all eternity. Or something like that.

The lowest fee per byte you can use is 1 sat/byte, but it will take long to get confirmed.
You might need to broadcast it again if mempool gets full. It is easy to do it, we can help you here if you need.

If you are not in a hurry (like sending to another wallet you have), you can use 1 sat/byte

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April 04, 2021, 07:56:56 PM
Last edit: April 04, 2021, 08:10:54 PM by hosseinimr93
Merited by DdmrDdmr (2), bitmover (1)
 #6

The lowest fee per byte you can use is 1 sat/byte,
The lowest possible fee rate is not 1 sat/byte. That's 1 sat/vbyte.
A transaction including segwit inputs can be broadcast even using less than 1 sat/byte.

As an example, take a look at this transaction. It is paying 0.672 sat/byte.


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April 04, 2021, 08:42:18 PM
 #7

^ Wow. How long did it take for that to go through?
yat97
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April 04, 2021, 08:44:46 PM
 #8

Before it gets stuck in limbo indefinitely?

Can I just set it at 10 Sat/B and still have a payment go through? Even if it takes days or so?

Is there a sat/B fee per byte calculator where I can put in numbers and check? I know it varies by day as well.

I made a calculator myself, you can check it out here:
https://bitcoindata.science/plot-your-transaction-in-mempool.html

You need to know how many inputs/outputs you have, and what is the format of your addresses.
After adding all details you can choose a fee per byte (fee rate) and you will see how much you will spend in a transaction.


Quote
I want to go as low as possible but I hear if you go too low, it gets stuck in limbo for all eternity. Or something like that.

The lowest fee per byte you can use is 1 sat/byte, but it will take long to get confirmed.
You might need to broadcast it again if mempool gets full. It is easy to do it, we can help you here if you need.

If you are not in a hurry (like sending to another wallet you have), you can use 1 sat/byte



Thanks! I can set it that low? Thanks, dang I should have done that lol.

Also what is the input vs output thing on there? Sorry noobness here.
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April 04, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
 #9

I just need a calculator where I can put in how many sat/B for the fee to the amount I'm sending.

So like a payment of 20 dollars worth of bitcoin, then 100 dollars worth of bitcoin.
The fee you pay to get a fast confirmation doesn't depend on the amount you send, it, rather, depends on the transaction size.
This is why the fee calculator you linked asks for the number of your transaction's  inputs and outputs to calculate its size and doesn't ask how much you are going to send.

Quote
I want to go as low as possible but I hear if you go too low, it gets stuck in limbo for all eternity. Or something like that.
Transactions do not remain stuck for eternity. They either get confirmed or get dropped from the mempool after which you may spend them again.

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April 04, 2021, 10:56:06 PM
Merited by bitmover (2)
 #10

^ Wow. How long did it take for that to go through?
Using 1 sat/vbyte could take months before it will be confirmed, it is not advisable for now. Even, using 5 sat/vbyte were luckily confirmed today since more than a month ago. Although, you can set such low fee if you want to consolidate your input, but make sure the transaction supoorts replace-by-fee, so you will be able to pump the fee in case of stuck transaction.

Also what is the input vs output thing on there? Sorry noobness here.
Assuming Mr A, B and C sent you 1 btc, 2 btc and 4 btc to your wallet address respectively, if you want to send the whole bitcoin to a friend, it will have 3 inputs, which are the number of times you received the whole btc you want to send irrespective of the number of addresses used to receive it. 1 output, because you send the whole btc to a friend and no change address.

Assuming you have 1 input, like only Mr A sent you 1.5 btc, if you want to send 1 btc to a friend, that means your wallet will send 1 btc to your friend and 0.5 btc to a change adddress (address on your wallet). This transaction have 1 input because you are sending btc from a transaction with a single received transaction (1.5 btc) from Mr A which can be used and remain change. 2 outputs because your wallet send to a friend and to a change address.

Transactions do not remain stuck for eternity. They either get confirmed or get dropped from the mempool after which you may spend them again.
Transaction can remain in the mempool for months, especially if the wallet is synchronizing with the blockchain frequently, this will make the wallet to automatically rebroadcast the transaction. The best is to just enable replace-by-fee before broadcasting the transaction at all, so it can be used in case of stuck transaction. Normally, it is 14 days mempool might drop transactions, but possibly not all the mempools will drop it, while some will take it up as the wallet automatically rebroadcasting the transaction. There are cases of transactions that will remain stuck for months in mempool, and also are cases a dropped transaction will still be confirmed later, this second case is the reason people are advised to spend the same input if a transaction has been dropped from mempool. But, the best advice is to never think transaction will be dropped from mempool because it can be so frustrating if someone is experiencing stuck transaction that do not support replace-by-fee.





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April 04, 2021, 11:22:27 PM
 #11

Also what is the input vs output thing on there? Sorry noobness here.

The number of outputs is the number of destination addresses. Unless you send your entire balance, you will likely have at least 2 , as one of the will be the change address (this address will receive the remaining btc that you didn't send, it is automatically generated and the money goes back to your wallet)

The number of inputs is a little more complicate, but in simple terms each time you receive BTC it will generate one input. You will have many coins (inputs) with the value of each transaction you received. If you received 3 times in the same address (or different ones) and you want to send all the balance you will have 3 inputs.

^ Wow. How long did it take for that to go through?
Using 1 sat/vbyte could take months before it will be confirmed, it is not advisable for now. Even, using 5 sat/vbyte were luckily confirmed today since more than a month ago. Although, you can set such low fee if you want to consolidate your input, but make sure the transaction supoorts replace-by-fee, so you will be able to pump the fee in case of stuck transaction.

I agree, it could take more than a month.
Last month there were only about 400 transactions confirmed below 1 sat/vbyte, which is pretty low.
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transactions?s=time(desc)&q=fee_per_kb(..1000),time(2021-03),fee(0.00000001..)#
In January we had more than 21 thousand confirmed 1 sat/vbyte transaction.


The lowest fee per byte you can use is 1 sat/byte,
The lowest possible fee rate is not 1 sat/byte. That's 1 sat/vbyte.
A transaction including segwit inputs can be broadcast even using less than 1 sat/byte.

As an example, take a look at this transaction. It is paying 0.672 sat/byte.

You are correct, a detail I forgot to add, but it is explained in the link I shared. I made also a tool where you can play around about transaction sizes in bytes and vbytes, segwit, non-segwit..

Just to add a little to the discussion about this:
Transaction size in vbyte and bytes will be the same for legacy transactions, but there will be huge differences in segwit transactions. There is no fixed  vbyte/byte ratio.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weight_units

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April 05, 2021, 01:37:50 AM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (2)
 #12

How long did it take for that to go through?
With same fee rate you use to broadcast your transactions, the waiting time to get first confirmation on the network will be different from time to time.





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April 05, 2021, 04:34:39 AM
 #13

I recently made a transaction with similar fees and it got a confirmation within an hour. Technically speaking, unless you really really need the amount in an urgent need instantly, don't go for huge fees (like $10-$20) per transaction. Because if you can just patiently wait, your transaction will get confirmed. In past, a friend sent me a transaction at 1sat/B I think, it took around 14 hours to confirm but it still did. There are free (and paid) transaction accelerators as well if you think your coins are stuck in limbo Grin 

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April 05, 2021, 07:38:35 AM
 #14

There are free (and paid) transaction accelerators as well if you think your coins are stuck in limbo Grin
Very possible a transaction can be so low to an extent it will not be able to be accelerated using free acceleratators, but some accelerators like ViaBTC still works, provided you still pay a fee that is not too low, and also making use of the acceleratator at earliest time of each hour, but not guaranteed that it would work. Most other free acceleratators will indicate the transaction has been acceleratated but nothing done and the transaction will still remain stuck.

Only people that have not tried out paid acceleratators will want to use it, and if about to be used, the fee that will be demanded for will make them to back off and not use it. A paid acceleratator can demand for $70 as fee for just want to make use of their service, even if the  transaction to be accelerated have low bitcoin amount. So, this is not a best option at all.

So far replace-by-fee can help so the amount paid as extra for fee to pump the transaction will be low, why no enable replace-by-fee for such transaction, so the fee can easily be pumped yet with low amount, instead of depending on free acceleratators or paid ones.

Another is child-pay-for-parent, it will be good to enable replace-by-fee, but child-pay-for-parent can be used if you still want to send bitcoin to another person, all you need to do is to spend from the change address from the previous (parent) transaction, so the both (parent and child) transactions will be confirmed at ones (although, the child transaction can also be an address on your wallet, but the fee will be higher than that of replace-by-fee), you need to use a fee that can get both (parent and child) transactions confirmed in a block fast in addition to the last paid fee.





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Eureka_07
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April 05, 2021, 08:09:48 AM
 #15

Before it gets stuck in limbo indefinitely?

Can I just set it at 10 Sat/B and still have a payment go through? Even if it takes days or so?

Is there a sat/B fee per byte calculator where I can put in numbers and check? I know it varies by day as well.

<snip>
It depends to the current mempool. If you want your transaction to be confirmed first, you'll be needing to spend more fee for the transaction. My lowest input before was 1 sat per byte. There are times that it just took few hours to be confirmed, but there are also that time where it took almost a week before that particular transaction was confirmed. These recent days, I use 12/17/32 sat per byte depending on the mempool size. I use Mycelium wallet and it shows how much fee in usd I do have to pay for the specific input amount.

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April 05, 2021, 08:36:29 AM
Merited by NeuroticFish (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #16

^ Wow. How long did it take for that to go through?
Looking at an individual transaction like that doesn't tell you very much. Yes, it paid a low fee, but you don't know the other circumstances. Perhaps someone paid a miner directly to include this transaction in their block. Perhaps the transaction was broadcast by a miner themselves who prioritized it in their own blocks. What actually happened in this case was the owner of address 3HTd3e4KqeiNsCvqMfBVr5sPJNvbVAF7rT made a child-pays-for-parent transaction, by spending that output with a fee of 40 sats/vbyte. The effective fee rate for the transaction above was actually 13.8 sats/vbyte, and not 1 sat/vbyte as it seems, which is why it confirmed relatively quickly.

There are free (and paid) transaction accelerators as well if you think your coins are stuck in limbo Grin
The only free accelerator which is still functioning that I am aware of is ViaBTC, but your transaction must have at least a fee of 10 sats/vbyte and no unconfirmed parents for them to accept it. Paid transaction accelerators usually charge significant more than it would have cost to just pay an appropriate fee in the first place.

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April 05, 2021, 07:20:27 PM
 #17

Your at liberty to determine your fee and payment option, either it should be ETA or Mempool or Static and they all give you the freedom to set your fee as you so please while they determine, the position by megabytes it would take to get confirmed. In essence, while your free to determine a certain part of the process, there is a part that isn't up to you and that is the part that deals with how fast your transaction would be processed. This is dependent on the depth or congestion of the mempool and as such, its either you anticipate when you hope for it to be confirmed and send before hand or you increase the fee and get a quick confirmation.

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April 06, 2021, 01:34:09 AM
 #18

I advise you not to set the fees on a very low level, because this will definitely keep your transaction stuck in the network for a long time and you may have to use the transaction rebroadcast service or an accelerator in order to be able to receive your transaction.
The problem of fees and delay in confirming the transaction on the Bitcoin network is the biggest problem that everyone suffers from, if you want to send transactions with very small fees, you must use the Bitcoin lightning network, this feature has become present in the Electrium wallet after the update.
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April 06, 2021, 04:06:31 AM
 #19

ViaBTC, but your transaction must have at least a fee of 10 sats/vbyte
In this case it is 10 sat/byte not virtual bytes.
They actually use the raw transaction size in bytes and divide the fee by it which means your SegWit transactions paying 10 sat/vbyte are paying a lot less in the eyes of ViaBTC's accelerator! Consequently they reject them for being under the threshold!

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