Offline seed and wallet-backup

[joe1234]

Hello Forum

- once a Seed is offline created, can I go online with it (using Electrum on Tails)
  or would that defeat the purpose of offline seed creation?
 

- do you overwrite your Electrum-wallet backups on the removable offline storage media
  or shoud different backup-version be stored (e.g.:  wallet-bu_2021-04-01, wallet-bu_2021-04-06)?


Thanks!

Joe

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[ranochigo]

1) It'll defeat the purpose. If you're looking for an airgapped setup, then you should never connect it to the internet or expose yourself to unnecessary attack vectors. Just use PSBT feature on Electrum to transfer the transactions back and forth using either a QR code or USB drive.

2) Your seeds are already backed up by writing it on a physical medium. The backup version doesn't matter, unless you're modifying details (labels, transaction description, etc) in between the backups and you're looking to still access them in the future.

[NeuroticFish]

- once a Seed is offline created, can I go online with it (using Electrum on Tails)
  or would that defeat the purpose of offline seed creation?

If an attacker manages to steal your wallet (via malware) file and your password (via keylogger), it won't matter that you generated the seed offline. So imho it kinda defeats the purpose.
On the other hand, the attacker needs to get both - wallet + password -, hence offline seed could be a tiny bit safer.

However, if you already know how to use Tails, I suggest you keep that wallet on Tails 100% offline, as cold storage, and keep on the live/online computer a watch-only wallet.
And just read and follow the cold storage docs: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

- do you overwrite your Electrum-wallet backups on the removable offline storage media
  or shoud different backup-version be stored (e.g.:  wallet-bu_2021-04-01, wallet-bu_2021-04-06)?

I don't have this problem, I only backup seed(s). Unless you do anything fancy, seed should do.
If you keep files, I'd keep at least the last 2 versions, just in case one of them is saved damaged for whatever reason - it's a rule I follow for all file backups I make, no matter where from.

[o_e_l_e_o]

If you keep files, I'd keep at least the last 2 versions, just in case one of them is saved damaged for whatever reason - it's a rule I follow for all file backups I make, no matter where from.

This shouldn't really be necessary with Electrum wallets, or any other wallet based on a seed phrase. Any back up will contain the seed phrase, and so any back up will generate the exact same addresses as your current wallet, sync the exact same history, and show the exact same transactions and balance. The only thing that would change would be if you had added anything additional to the wallet such as address labels, as ranochigo pointed out.

The only thing which could throw a (very small) spanner in the works is if you had used up all the addresses within the gap limit and generated more since your back up, although once your back up wallet is opened and syncs it should automatically generate more addresses beyond the last used one until it finds them all (unless you have done something really weird like skip 50 addresses for some reason).

[NeuroticFish]

This shouldn't really be necessary with Electrum wallets, or any other wallet based on a seed phrase.

Normally, for Electrum, the seed would suffice. And that should not stay on a file (since files tend to end up on desktop, or in Dropbox, with the results we already know). Derivation path could be a good addition too.

But I've got few cases (not with Electrum) when, for various reasons - from me not paying attention to hardware or software error -, that the last backup file was broken.
So I've developed in years the habit to keep at least one extra version back, just in case.

[Charles-Tim]

<...>

If you generate seed phrase offline, and make it go online. Then, why not generate the seed phrase online. Online generated see phrase is vulnerable to attack(s), keeping offline is the safe way to go.

But I've got few cases (not with Electrum) when, for various reasons - from me not paying attention to hardware or software error -, that the last backup file was broken.
So I've developed in years the habit to keep at least one extra version back, just in case.

Although seed phrase can not have detailed information needed about wallet, but it can completely recover back all coins sent to the addresses it controls. I have heard many cases of corrupted file, there was recently a thread about how the thread OP wallet file backup was corrupted, and likely no other backup done. This is just a means to lose bitcoin if the seed phrase is not backup. That is why I prefer to stay with using seed phrase instead, backing up the seed phrase offline which I think is the safest way because if different backup locations are used. Even if the wallet file has corrupted, the seed phrase can be resorted to, but your opinion is good also to have two wallet file backup, provided, if properly protected.

[Dabs]

I would make a backup of the file after every transaction unless you make a whole bunch of them every day. I would also make a backup because the online watch-only wallet would probably have other information such as labels. You could also use LabelSync, which backs up all these encrypted on some server, but I have never tried it. (You have a watch-only wallet anyway, so it's all labels.)

[o_e_l_e_o]

I would make a backup of the file after every transaction unless you make a whole bunch of them every day.

Why? An Electrum wallet is an HD wallet, so all the transactions made will show up on any back up of the same wallet once it is opened and syncs with the network. A back up after every transaction is unnecessary.

[Dabs]

I would make a backup of the file after every transaction unless you make a whole bunch of them every day.

Why? An Electrum wallet is an HD wallet, so all the transactions made will show up on any back up of the same wallet once it is opened and syncs with the network. A back up after every transaction is unnecessary.

For the labels. Not the addresses.. Also force of habit from using Core, before they went HD wallets.