Will vaccine passports lead to the demise of vaccines?

[Jet Cash]

Crap. now that I know that you are 78 proving you wrong is no longer fun.

Surely my being 78 with no health problems adds veracity to my comments.

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[iTradeChips]

My opinion on that is vaccine passports might be useful only on flying from country to country. Not really as a tool for curtailing your freedoms in your own country by being associated with the unvaccined. Imagine you need a vaccine passport to enter a province or a town. Then you would not be able to enter the province without a vaccine passport. That is bad. Because your freedom to move freely in your own country is also stifled. So I guess I want vaccine passport only for country to country access.

[Jet Cash]

I would prefer to be in a plane load of unvaccinated people, than one that is full of people with reduced immunity, and thus other health problems.

[Poker Player]

Actually, at least when I heard about Covid passports, they didn't just refer to being vaccinated, although it seems that way from the title:

"How will the EU vaccine passport work?
...
The certificate, either digital or on paper, will enable anyone vaccinated against Covid, or who has tested negative, or recently recovered from the virus, to travel across all 27 member states."

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56522408

So there are three ways to get it, not just the vaccine. The easiest way if you don't like vaccines is to get tested.

[Jet Cash]

What will the test be? Will they test for "T" cell immunity, or the absence of antibodies. Both present difficulties, and this is why they are currently using cheap, but unreliable methods.

[iamsheikhadil]

We are seeing that even after vaccination, there are still people getting infected, and I myself have undergone through covid and got cured naturally by taking some meds and fruits, but still I follow strict social distances and other protocols, and I think although vaccination can help in other ways (like increase in immunity against the virus) but can't really stop the virus from getting in the body and do some dance to mess with your body and poke here and there to make you feel uneasy for any time period.

[wack slacker]

We are seeing that even after vaccination, there are still people getting infected, and I myself have undergone through covid and got cured naturally by taking some meds and fruits, but still I follow strict social distances and other protocols, and I think although vaccination can help in other ways (like increase in immunity against the virus) but can't really stop the virus from getting in the body and do some dance to mess with your body and poke here and there to make you feel uneasy for any time period.

A vaccine passport is a necessity. Although vaccinated people can contract the virus, certification of vaccination will help health authorities categorize people as a treatment plan or isolate people who have been vaccinated against COVID-19.
With this approach, disease control will be better than no distinction between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

[iamsheikhadil]

We are seeing that even after vaccination, there are still people getting infected, and I myself have undergone through covid and got cured naturally by taking some meds and fruits, but still I follow strict social distances and other protocols, and I think although vaccination can help in other ways (like increase in immunity against the virus) but can't really stop the virus from getting in the body and do some dance to mess with your body and poke here and there to make you feel uneasy for any time period.

A vaccine passport is a necessity. Although vaccinated people can contract the virus, certification of vaccination will help health authorities categorize people as a treatment plan or isolate people who have been vaccinated against COVID-19.
With this approach, disease control will be better than no distinction between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

I don't disagree, to categorize people into vaccinated and unvaccinated for further treatment plans if they get infected again and treating them based on their immunity level and if they have been vaccinated or not, is a good idea. But at the same time, I question if the person's testimony would be enough though during treatment asking if they have been vaccinated or not. To mark someone as vaccinated in their passports might be a good idea but I don't see any benefit of huge level.

[wack slacker]

I don't disagree, to categorize people into vaccinated and unvaccinated for further treatment plans if they get infected again and treating them based on their immunity level and if they have been vaccinated or not, is a good idea. But at the same time, I question if the person's testimony would be enough though during treatment asking if they have been vaccinated or not. To mark someone as vaccinated in their passports might be a good idea but I don't see any benefit of huge level.

The benefit is small, but its effect is really great and saves time for the authorities. If applied worldwide, the benefits will be huge. The current pandemic situation is very complicated and has dangerous new variations. People management is very important in epidemic prevention. I think the idea of vaccination certification is necessary. A small but meaningful thing.

[paxmao]

Crap. now that I know that you are 78 proving you wrong is no longer fun.

Surely my being 78 with no health problems adds veracity to my comments.

See, that is exactly the problem of people that have a vague idea of what a proof or what science is.

I would prefer to be in a plane load of unvaccinated people, than one that is full of people with reduced immunity, and thus other health problems.

For example, one case does not make a rule. I insist, you should stress test you theory going to a COVID plant. What could go wrong?

I am happy that there are vaccine passports. I sincerely hope they start asking for those in all public places so I do not have to share the same air in a plane with people who are scared of science because they have only weird ideas of how it works and what it is and think that they are "naturally immune".

You probably have not contracted COVID because you do not have any active social life, which is a shame if there are some nice ladies in their 80´s in the vicinity as you mentioned in another post.

[Jet Cash]

How many vaccinated people actually understand the so-called science behind it?

I have a healthy partner who is currently caring for her younger sister, who is struggling with the results of failed cancer treatment. My healthy partner is interested in natural remedies and good diet, but her sister has embraced the myth of beneficial pharmaceutical drugs.

I'm not a hermit, and because of my lifestyle, I'm exposed to a wide range of infections in a diverse selection of communities. I believe that this has allowed me to build a robust immune system, and that I am beneficial to society, as I am killing and destroying many of the pathogens that the vaccinate pharma slavers fall prey to.

[paxmao]

How many vaccinated people actually understand the so-called science behind it?

I have a healthy partner who is currently caring for her younger sister, who is struggling with the results of failed cancer treatment. My healthy partner is interested in natural remedies and good diet, but her sister has embraced the myth of beneficial pharmaceutical drugs.

I'm not a hermit, and because of my lifestyle, I'm exposed to a wide range of infections in a diverse selection of communities. I believe that this has allowed me to build a robust immune system, and that I am beneficial to society, as I am killing and destroying many of the pathogens that the vaccinate pharma slavers fall prey to.

I insist that you choose a community in a COVID plant and have a traditional cuppa with them. Better if all you actually use the same cuppa to test your theory.

Re the failed treatment, I sympathise with your partner´s situation, it seems similar to one in my near family. Precisely, no one that calls himself a rational scientific will ever argue that all the answers have been found and that science and pharma have the solution for everything.  However, when a scientific truth is found and accepted by the vast majority of the scientific community it is because, as far as humans can reach "truths", that is one of them.

I perfectly understand that if there are no answers to an specific problem or those answers are insufficient, people try to look for alternatives and experiment with themselves. I would do exactly the same and I am not blind to the benefits of natural remedies and good nutrition (hint, is not a full English breakfast).

In the case of the vaccines, it is very clear that 1 year of testing is not enough to give full certainty of their efficacy nor of the long term effects. That is science. However, there is a long stretch from there to saying that is better to remain exposed to an illness that is perfectly known to be highly contagious and is know to cause enough ICU intakes as to block the sanitary system. Sometimes you have to choose the less of two evils, is as simple as that.

Now you are free to go into a denial "there is no problem in the ICUs, it is not really contagious, I am immune because I eat organic carrots, ....) and that is where you are going against truly established facts and your opinion becomes basically irrelevant.

[Jet Cash]

Well I don't see Covid as an evil, but I think the people who created it are. So my choice is between a system that has been round for thousands of years, and has helped humans to become the potentially healthy creatures they are. Healthy is the natural state for mankind. We do what we can to mess that up, and we have globalists who exploit this. So my choice is between a healthy natural option, and an obviously damaging system that is designed to control the population. I think the desperation of governments to vaccinate everybody, when scientific advice it to vaccinate pre-pandemic, and not during a pandemic, is sufficient evidence to discredit the whole initiative.

As I have said in many posts, it isn't covid that puts people into ICUs, but their crappy health that falls over when it is exposed to a minor virus.

[odolvlobo]

As I have said in many posts, it isn't covid that puts people into ICUs, but their crappy health that falls over when it is exposed to a minor virus.

It's not a "minor virus" if it has caused millions of deaths and permanent disabilities, regardless of the circumstances.

[Jet Cash]

It is against the nature and interests of viruses to cause death. They need their hosts to remain alive and active so that they can spread and multiply. Killing their hosts will lead to their extinction, and they are too smart to want that.

[paxmao]

Well I don't see Covid as an evil, but I think the people who created it are. So my choice is between a system that has been round for thousands of years, and has helped humans to become the potentially healthy creatures they are.
...

Again, fully confused by New Age gurus you are. People are not "naturally healthy", the life expectancy before there was anything that could be called medicine was 35 years and it still is in countries that cannot afford modern medicine. And it has only increased thanks to science, not just because the humans have become stronger.

Look



Now focus on on 1928 and how the curve goes crazily up. You know what is that? Fleming discovering penicillin. That is what true science and "pharma" do when correctly used. An now, do you see an sensible increase for some regions around 1880? That is Pasteur creating the science of immunology thanks to which you are alive. Don´t bother to go along the line of "I have never taken antibiotics"... your parents and ancestors expectancy of life would have been nil without these.

[Poker Player]

Well I don't see Covid as an evil, but I think the people who created it are. So my choice is between a system that has been round for thousands of years, and has helped humans to become the potentially healthy creatures they are.
...

Again, fully confused by New Age gurus you are. People are not "naturally healthy", the life expectancy before there was anything that could be called medicine was 35 years and it still is in countries that cannot afford modern medicine. And it has only increased thanks to science, not just because the humans have become stronger.

...

Now focus on on 1928 and how the curve goes crazily up. You know what is that? Fleming discovering penicillin. That is what true science and "pharma" do when correctly used. An now, do you see an sensible increase for some regions around 1880? That is Pasteur creating the science of immunology thanks to which you are alive. Don´t bother to go along the line of "I have never taken antibiotics"... your parents and ancestors expectancy of life would have been nil without these.

I've said that in other posts myself as well. There are people who believe in the immune system as if it were an infallible thing, when in the past there were no chemically synthesized drugs nor was medicine so advanced and people died much earlier. A simple infection or cold could kill you.

Another thing is that a strong immune system means that you will be less prone to suffer from diseases, and if you catch the disease to fight it better, that is to say that it lasts less and with fewer symptoms.

But there are people who have faith in the immune system like those who have faith in God, and it is not faith but rationality that has led us humans to increase life expectancy and reach levels of wellbeing that were unthinkable centuries ago.

[Jet Cash]

Vaccines rely on the immune system. They are useless without it.

It  wasn't drugs that increased life expectancy, but better nutrition and sanitation.

[odolvlobo]

I don't know where you get your information from but you are clearly misinformed.

It  wasn't drugs that increased life expectancy, but better nutrition and sanitation.

Vaccines, as well as nutrition and sanitation, have a major impact on life expectancy.

For example,

With regard to past evidence, several data from the United Kingdom and Scandinavian countries show that the widespread use of smallpox vaccination starting at the beginning of the nineteenth century resulted in a marked and sustained decline not only of smallpox-related deaths, but also of the overall crude death rate, and contributed greatly to an unprecedented growth of European population. As to the present, it is estimated that 3 million children are saved annually by vaccination, but 2 million still die because they are not immunized. Tetanus, measles and pertussis are the main vaccine-preventable killers in the first years of life. Data from Bangladesh show that full implementation of EPI vaccines has the potential of reducing mortality by almost one half in children aged 1-4 years.

It is against the nature and interests of viruses to cause death. ..., and they are too smart to want that.

Viruses aren't "smart". They make no decisions. They have no wants.

I'm not a hermit, and because of my lifestyle, I'm exposed to a wide range of infections in a diverse selection of communities. I believe that this has allowed me to build a robust immune system, and that I am beneficial to society, as I am killing and destroying many of the pathogens that the vaccinate pharma slavers fall prey to.

Sorry, but exposure to a pathogen does not create a general immunity to all pathogens. Instead, it causes your immune system to build a defense against that specific pathogen. Exposure to some pathogens will lead to death before your immune system can build its defense. For those pathogens, there are vaccines that expose you to the pathogen without risking illness.

Furthermore, your immunity does not make you a super hero. It gives you the ability to kill pathogens that you are exposed to but it does nothing to pathogens that other people are exposed to.

[beertoll]

We already have vaccine passports. They are called vaccination cards. To enroll a child into a child care facility, the parents bring proof of vaccinations for diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio, measles, rubella, mumps, and others. To enroll a child into school, the parents show a vaccination card to the board as proof. When you enroll in a college, you bring your vaccination card with you. To stay for a long period of time in developed countries, you need to bring, along with other documents, your passport and a vaccination card to get a visa. It is either a card, or a book, or another type of document depending on the country where it is issued.