I think Bitcoin is the biggest bubble and ponzi in the universe or it isn't?

[rc4739]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

even if you count it from $1 per coin  to over $60,000   that is over 6,000,000% return in investment 


what do you think?

may be it is just my silly thought....

please comment.    thank you.

[Ucy]

Have you seen a ponzi scheme that has last this long and remain sustainable?
Bitcoin is a revolutionary and very useful tech/currency. If you remove the deflationary feature it will still be revolutionary and very useful. Fortunately, this feature is as important as other Bitcoin features... It needs to exist along side other features for optimal performance.

[decodx]

Have you seen a ponzi scheme that has last this long and remain sustainable?

Nope. Or it not until now at least. That's why he said "the biggest bubble and ponzi in the universe"! 

Bitcoin is a revolutionary and very useful tech/currency. If you remove the deflationary feature it will still be revolutionary and very useful. Unfortunately, this feature is as important as other Bitcoin features... It needs to exist along side with other Bitcoin features for optimal performance.

Nah, let us simply refer to it as "bubble and ponzi". That way, we can skip all of that techno babel.

[Iron Fist]

may be it is just my silly thought....

I can imagine that people with little technical background would struggle to grasp what Bitcoin and blockchain technology represent, but wouldn't it be better for them to try to learn as much as possible rather than brag publicly about their ignorance?

[Gozie51]

Do you also say Gold or crude are bubble? These two have not also remain stagnant, they move and fluctuate just as bitcoin do. Bitcoin is only different regarding price because no body regulates it. Bitcoin is deflationary and decentralised with no government influence, therefore it should move to any direction as the demand and supply interacts on it.

Crude also do increase in international markets especially when a huge supplying country has an issue that affects her supply or if the OPEC for example come out with policy capable to affect supply or pricing, then you notice changes in price. Bitcoin is therefore no bubble but an asset that people willingly invest in without any third party.

[SaiyanSS3]

It’s great to invite some fud, crypto is not a stranger to being labelled bubble/ponzi, however I would think bitcoin is a great social experiment, it’s success has to all come from the its user base, voluntarism, some hate it some like it, notoriously bitcoin was hatred by central bank.

[fiulpro]

Do you even know what a Ponzi scheme is ?
Let me just go to wiki and give you the description.

A Ponzi scheme is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors. The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from legitimate business activity, and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds

Now the source of profit of bitcoins is not the new investment rather the increase of the value of the remaining one. If you do think it's ponzi scheme then you cannot be more wrong.
The demand and supply makes sure to put the value of the particular existing crypto higher and as you see companies like Tesla are already investing in it which have started a new era of corporate adoption. Which is causing price to increase at a higher rate than expected , which indeed is something that might cause doubts for people who are not familiar with this ecosystem.
You think you know more than the companies who are like major bears in the IT industry since it seems like their financial advisors are all into bitcoins these days.
1. Learn about crypto
2. Learn about ponzi schemes for real.

It’s great to invite some fud, crypto is not a stranger to being labelled bubble/ponzi, however I would think bitcoin is a great social experiment, it’s success has to all come from the its user base, voluntarism, some hate it some like it, notoriously bitcoin was hatred by central bank.

I do think it is much more than a social experiment is the road to achieving financial freedom and stability since banks and the Government have led to nowhere since years.

[SaiyanSS3]

>>https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5330121.msg56766662#msg56766662
>is much more than a social experiment
Being social able is a big part, to get more people to use the currency, it has to reach many people, it would have been worthless when little to nobody want to use the currency, the social help a lot to gain traction, spread the word about the coins and will have more people to use it. Although I can’t grasp the freedom part, there isn’t much freedom to be said.

[decodx]

@rc4739, I took the liberty of looking at your history on a bitcoin forum, so let's recap:

is there someone holding  bitcoin from early 2010
The whole idea of Bitcoin is by Steve Jobs...
can we just reset the diffuculty level back to 1
Is bitcoin for speculation only?
Why did you buy bitcoin?
I think Bitcoin is the biggest bubble and ponzi in the universe

So I wonder what's next? Do you have any other stupid ideas?

You don't seem to have any respect for this community and seem to be simply trolling around. Am I right?
Prove me wrong.

[blockman]

As usual, when somebody misses the train, he complains and tells negativities to just let go of what he feels about it. Have you forgotten about how mining works?
It's one of the backends why bitcoin is valuable, think about how much energy consumption that it got for its network to keep going. It's like the gold reserve of bitcoin.

[Hydrogen]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing

As long as you're willing to admit UBI, stocks, markets and all business are also ponzi schemes under your definition. I don't have a big issue with it. Apple stock could be labeled a ponzi scheme under your definition. Late comers who buy apple stock pay for the early adopters. Gold could be labeled a ponzi scheme using that definition. Real estate would be a ponzi scheme using your definition. Everything would be a ponzi scheme.

The reason ponzi scheme carries a negative connotation involves them being unsustainable and carrying a high probability of failure. Deception and lack of full disclosure in ponzi schemes are also a major problem, which is why they're illegal for the private sector. A normal ponzi scheme is structured differently from the definition you're using. It defines a stream of diminishing returns where liabilities will grow at a faster rate than assets and income. Guaranteeing a point of critical failure. The pyramid structure of a ponzi scheme is also a key trait.

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

You can checkout the above mentioned stocks and track their performance over a 10 year period. Netflix, disney, tesla. All 3 have shown impressive percentage gains over a span of around 10 years.



Then we have currencies like the zimbabwe dollar and venezuelan bolivar hyperinflating. They exhibit impressive percentage movement but in which direction.

[rc4739]

can you just tell me   which investment in this world can up 60000 fold in just  ten years
and is it for real?

but bitcoin did it..

when the price of a single bitcoin reach par with the dollar on 2011 and it's now trading at over 60,000 dollar

if you don't call it a bubble   then what you call it?   a miracle?


many buyers of bitcoin nowaday doesn't seems to know that
they just want to make a quick profit out of it

also if you look at the trading pattern  most people just buy a small amount of it   

the volume looks like this

0.001
0.018
0.008
0.005

just a few hundred dollar mostly     no serious buyer outthere

and the so call bitcoin exchange outthere     they execute the buy and sell order by matching it and  then cancel it out
before put it into the blockchain so that it looks like the transaction is in real time but actually it isn't

YOUR TRANSACTION NEVER APPEAR IN THE BLOCKCHAIN

[cabron]

If you don't mind we can all agree that early investors are just early believers and the investors who have not heard of BTC before until today are late believers. Well they pay for being early believers, they waited too. But don't worry, if you buy today you will still be considered early believers by the time comes when it's more than $60K. 

[rc4739]

If you don't mind we can all agree that early investors are just early believers and the investors who have not heard of BTC before until today are late believers. Well they pay for being early believers, they waited too. But don't worry, if you buy today you will still be considered early believers by the time comes when it's more than $60K.  

 we are all late comer now
              the price already pass 60K

              by the way i want to double my 100 dollar investment in bitcoin this year
              hopefully it will become 200 dollar   when bitcoin reach 100K
              cheers.....

               my 100 dollar bill can buy up to 0.0017 bitcoin at the current price  

               its better than late   then never    cheers...

[Darker45]

I think the biggest bubble is that piece of paper you are holding which is worth nothing and backed by nothing but the mere words of dead people saying it should worth something. The same goes to that other piece of paper with equal size and made from the same material but which is said to be 10 times the worth of another simply because it has a different print on it. 

Ponder on it. Isn't it a lot sillier than a hard-coded payment system with built-in currency which is beyond the control of anybody?

[Wexnident]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing

With that idea, I suppose literally EVERYTHING is a ponzi scheme then I suppose? Early investors would just suck the money of late investors for nothing blah blah idea is pretty stupid ngl. Not to mention that Bitcoin isn't even a ponzi scam, it's just a legitimate asset that runs on a supply and demand basis. It's like comparing a two-way (beneficial) relationship to a one-sided(parasitic) relationship.

many buyers of bitcoin nowaday doesn't seems to know that
they just want to make a quick profit out of it

and the so call bitcoin exchange outthere     they execute the buy and sell order by matching it and  then cancel it out
before put it into the blockchain so that it looks like the transaction is in real time but actually it isn't

YOUR TRANSACTION NEVER APPEAR IN THE BLOCKCHAIN

I'm not gonna deny it, a lot of people look at Bitcoin as a quick way to get rich (which it isn't), but it is the first thing that most people would think of when they hear the idea of Bitcoin. And? Is there anything specifically wrong with that? Traders invest to profit, businesses plan out projects to profit, people work to profit, so is there anything wrong with people thinking of Bitcoin as an investment to profit?

And don't bloody use an exchange if you think of it as such, no one is really forcing you.

[Kittygalore]

Nice another troll in the forum, I am pretty sure that if bitcoin is a bubble, it should have burst a long time ago, your the kind of people who are bitter that they didn't bought bitcoin at a lower price so you try to tell other people that bitcoin to discourage them to get in and have someone share sentiment with your senseless beliefs and ideas.

[Snappycoco]

Your perspective of things might harm you. Bitcoin being ponzi isn't right due to the fact that early adopters knew that the demand of BTC might bloom. Supply and demand determines the price of any coin out there and you should know that.

[philipma1957]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

even if you count it from $1 per coin  to over $60,000   that is over 6,000,000% return in investment 


what do you think?

may be it is just my silly thought....

please comment.    thank you.

I think you should learn  what the proper definition of a Ponzi scheme is.

As it is not what you believe ponzi scheme is.

[franky1]

if gold could be mined in someones back yard with just a spoon and a coffee filter ($2/ounce) the gold prices would not maintain at $1800.. people would sell it down to something like $6

yep with mining costs being say $900+ 'value' and then some speculative overpricing of an extra <100% brings gold to its 'price'


with bitcoin. in germany with $0.38/kwh electric it cost $72k to mine bitcoin. so if they can buy it cheaper than they can mine it for.. they will
and if china with $0.04/kwh electric it cost $21k to mine bitcoin. so if they can mine and then sell for higher.. they will*

its this value meter $21k-$72k that is the window of the bottom limit people wont dare sell below and the upper limit people wont dare buy above

yes america has a ~cost of $33k per btc uk has a $42k per btc
meaning if the price moved down below $42k UK miners will slow down on mining and go on a buying frenzy
meaning if the price moved down below $33k US miners will slow down on mining and go on a buying frenzy
 as its far cheaper to buy it than mine it

these factors are all at play in the background giving bitcoin some background underlying value..
20% strong at ~$37k 50% strong at $27k and 98% strong at $21k**

yes the prices above $37k can feel speculative/volatile and full of just pure emotion trading. but there is actually underlying value at play hidden below

..
so play the gold backyard spoon or excavator game
if gold cost $900 because it requires expensive excavators and diesel to mine. is golds supply value 0 or somewhere above $900

yes the speculative 'bubble' is whatever is above $900 where a 2x might seem like a ready to burst bubble thats not sustainable where as a 30% profit is reasonable and of accepted value

so if you live in america knowing you could mine for $33k a coin.. or for a little extra you can just buy it and not have the hassle of setting up hardware and facilities and paying bills continuously.. how much premium would you consider as value and worth paying for a btc

*(mining hardware in the 165exa range is a $15k cost (9 month ROI) plus $1.5k per 1cent electric(i done the complicated maths then simplified it for this demo))
** based on mining demographics and electric prices (china33%US21%russia6%india6%japan6%...)