Denmark Banned AstraZeneca vaccine for good

[Poker Player]

Yeah, because dosing up millions of people, under duress, with an experimental gene therapy, then removing it from the market with millions more vials on the shelf, really fosters public confidence.

Occam's Razor suggests that they discontinued the DNA experiments because they are bad doo-doo...with much worse on the way.  Observation supports that hypothesis.

Although I agree with what you say about Occam's razor, it seems to me that you are wrong about what you say about DNA (which would be more precisely RNA). They have not discontinued experiments with RNA, since Pfizer and Moderna vaccines also carry it.

[Cnut237]

look at this from a public health perspective. If there is any doubt as to the vaccine's safety, would it cause the average citizen just to take their chance with catching COVID? Probably. Unless you are obese, more likely than not, you will survive COVID without a problem. Less than 10 percent of COVID infections result in a hospital visit, and of those hospital visits, the ones that end up in intensive care units are 80 percent of the time obese.

I take your general point, but the data suggest (see my previous link), that the risk of blood clot from taking the vaccine is less than the risk of blood clot from catching Covid. Sure you can gamble that you won't take the vaccine and will hope to avoid Covid, too... but when the number of blood clots is so tiny, so statistically insignificant as to suggest no link at all, it's a different question.

So maybe that's why Denmark banned AstraZeneca's vaccine? Not necessary because of the threat for blood clots was large, but may just to keep public confidence in the vaccine to avoid the anti-vaxers from taking up the discussion and promoting doubt in the COVID vaccines?

It's impossible to determine why they banned it, given the previous history. I'm from the UK, and was against Brexit...but with the AZ vaccine the EU has behaved terribly. We had Macron inciting anti-vax hysteria in France with his comments about AZ, we had similar but lesser issues in Germany, we had bans for people over 65, then okay for older people and bans for younger people, etc... we had EU leaders claiming the vaccine was ineffective... and at the same time the EU going crazy during the supply issue, and demanding 100% of AZ vaccines stay in the EU... even though they didn't want them, they "weren't safe" and "weren't effective". Absurd. And impossible to disentangle all of this from Denmark suddenly banning it because of non-existent blood clots.

Anecdotally, just as a point of interest (a single data point does not consititute an argument), I've had the AZ vaccine. I had mild fever/chills overnight, and a bit of a headache. Within 24 hours I was back to 100%.

---
_{edit: typo}

[tvbcof]

Yeah, because dosing up millions of people, under duress, with an experimental gene therapy, then removing it from the market with millions more vials on the shelf, really fosters public confidence.

Occam's Razor suggests that they discontinued the DNA experiments because they are bad doo-doo...with much worse on the way.  Observation supports that hypothesis.

Although I agree with what you say about Occam's razor, it seems to me that you are wrong about what you say about DNA (which would be more precisely RNA). They have not discontinued experiments with RNA, since Pfizer and Moderna vaccines also carry it.

Yawn.  I've been through this before.  Different technology.  Different 'platform'.

Pfizer and Moderna fabricate designer mRNA in a pot and inject that into the body and some of it works it's way into (apparently random...which could easily explain the variation in side effects) cell's cytoplasm.  The mRNA then feed into organelles known as ribosomes where they induce production of proteins.  Spike protein in this case...so they say.

AstraZeneca and J&J transport DNA into the cell's nucleus using various adenoviruses as carriers (aka 'vectors').  This designer DNA then transcribes brand new RNA which exits the nucleus into the cell's cytoplasm and you can see the rest from the above description.

Both genetic therapies seem to hijack basically random cells in the body, and in neither case do the developers seem to have much of a clue about how long the process will continue on, the fate of the reprogrammed cells, the impact of expressing spike protien on a human cell rather than on a viral body, etc, etc.  If they do, it seems to be 'trade secrets'.

You really owe it to yourself and others to at least learn the very basics of this stuff before participating in the trial or lobbying for others to do so.

[Cnut237]

an experimental gene therapy

All that the vaccine is doing is saying to your body "protect against this thing". It's not experimental, because viral vector vaccination is not a new process. And it's not gene therapy. The AZ vaccine uses a viral vector to deliver instructions for your body to build the CV19 spike protein. That's it.

AstraZeneca and J&J transport DNA

Do you eat meat? Then you're transporting foreign DNA into your body. What is the problem here? The AZ vaccine is delivered by an adenovirus. Adenoviruses are unable to integrate with or alter your DNA. That's why they're used as vectors. Also, they're modified so that they can't replicate. It's simply a delivery mechanism.

It's like receiving a parcel from Amazon. You just get the parcel, you don't fuse with the delivery driver.

[FIFA worldcup]

What's up with blood clotting and vaccines? The Johnson and Johnson vaccine apparently had some issues with blood clots. I wonder how people are suppose to make an educated choice on the vaccine they get. The vaccine is free in most first world countries, does the country choose what vaccine you get? Do you have a choice as a citizen?

There are so many cases in my country where people have developed blood clots and other side effects right after taking the vaccine. Before the vaccine i was very much eager to get myself vaccinated as soon as the vaccine is available but now i have a lot of fear from vaccine and i will never get myself vaccinated unless a better vaccine is developed.

[tvbcof]

an experimental gene therapy

All that the vaccine is doing is saying to your body "protect against this thing". It's not experimental, because viral vector vaccination is not a new process. And it's not gene therapy. The AZ vaccine uses a viral vector to deliver instructions for your body to build the CV19 spike protein. That's it.

Nope.  Viral vector technology has been used for a while in gene therapy research, but never has it been used for delivering designer DNA to operate within the celular machinery under the moniker of a 'vaccine'.  It's been worked on for Ebola, Zika, etc it recent times, but never use in large scale in humans.  If you know of a 'not new' vaccine which uses the technique, let's hear it.

You might be thinking of 'live virus' which gives one an infection of a weakened virus and allows the infection to spread.  Makes you somewhat sick from the vaccine virus with the advantage being that such technology limits the need for adjuvants.  This technology has been in wide use for a long time.

AstraZeneca and J&J transport DNA

Do you eat meat? Then you're transporting foreign DNA into your body. What is the problem here? The AZ vaccine is delivered by an adenovirus. Adenoviruses are unable to integrate with or alter your DNA. That's why they're used as vectors. Also, they're modified so that they can't replicate. It's simply a delivery mechanism.

It's like receiving a parcel from Amazon. You just get the parcel, you don't fuse with the delivery driver.

Where did I say the designer DNA integrates or alters your DNA?  I didn't.  That's a strawman.  It also doesn't matter one iota.  If it's sitting in the nucleus as a plasmid spinning out mRNA it is exactly the same thing.  Probably it would be better if it did splice into a chromosome, however, since transpcription would be more controlled.

As for eading meat, you clearly need a little bit of education in the basics of physiology.  The digestive track is evolved to wipe out everything and break it down into very basic components before absorption into the body.  Even then things go first to the liver which does even more hard-core treatment.

DNA is very sensitive.  It could not take one step into the body (saved from unusual events like bits...or injections...which bypass the gut.)  As a matter of fact, the immune system goes absolutely nutso when it sees unrecognized genetic material floating around and kills it off with extreme prejudiced.  That is why it has been difficult to get the designer genetic material (mRNA or DNA) into the victim's cells.

[dongyi17]

People are afraid of might be the effect of vaccine in their body, I think its not just AZ who has this kind of effect its just that they're the most of all visible .. like blood clot, dizziness and headache etc those are but a foreign object getting inside your body and since your body is not familiar with it off course they will cause some kind of reaction. So its up to you to take the vaccine or not.

[Mauser]

People are afraid of might be the effect of vaccine in their body, I think its not just AZ who has this kind of effect its just that they're the most of all visible .. like blood clot, dizziness and headache etc those are but a foreign object getting inside your body and since your body is not familiar with it off course they will cause some kind of reaction. So its up to you to take the vaccine or not.

I heard from some older friends of my parents who are above 70 years that they don't want to get vaccine because of AstraZeneca. Even though they could choose a different vaccine they don't want to get any at all. The bad press from the two vaccines AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson seem to make more people scared. We need better information about the long term effects of the vaccines.

[Renampun]

...

in my country, AstraZeneca has also been stopped from one of the vaccine recommendations...
however, from this issue, not all of the patients who had the same negative impact were injected with AZ vaccine. I personally support the decision of the Denmark government, they really want to protect its citizens.

[jrrsparkles]

...

in my country, AstraZeneca has also been stopped from one of the vaccine recommendations...
however, from this issue, not all of the patients who had the same negative impact were injected with AZ vaccine. I personally support the decision of the Denmark government, they really want to protect its citizens.

Governments given top priority to senior citizens in the vaccinations schemes in most of the countries on the other hand they are having the high chance of getting blood clots in the arteries which will lead them to cardiac arrest so instead of banning why not filter the patients with certain disease should not take such vaccines?

[Gyfts]

...

Regardless of why they banned it, Denmark I don't think is going anti-vax or anything. I haven't researched into what alternates they're exploring, but presumably they aren't just going to throw their seniors overboard and tell them they can't get the vaccine by banning the major competitors, Pfizer or J&J's. Again, I get that the data isn't statistically significant, it's just to make people "feel" safer because feelings > facts to some.