wtf? I don't scammer

[benteke]

Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Check their trust page to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution

admin remove pls

[1715085908]

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[benteke]

the message only appears on the Speculation (Altcoins)

[RickDeckard]

You can't actually remove these as that would spoil the main goal of them : To warn outside users and our own to proceed with caution with any kind of interaction with said user. In your case I see that your negative trust due to a thread of yours where you tried to sell an account from someone from here. Also, probably this whole story from this thread doesn't help to give you a nice reputation  - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4922390 .
You can of course get rid of it if you make legitimate trades and people will eventually reward you with positive Trust, which in turn verifies you as someone that one can trust in making trades (albeit there have been users with a decent amount of trust that I believe ran away in some trades, so it isn't a 100 % bulletproof system).

[shahzadafzal]

Comments and reference are pretty self explanatory

“Account sellers are not to be trusted.”

Buying and selling accounts is discouraged here by many.

This is to stop account farming.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

admin remove pls

You know nothing about this forum and obviously don't give a shit about it--and normally I would review a feedback like the one I gave you a few years ago and remove or modify it if the member has shown evidence that he's changed his ways, but that's not the case with you.

Leaving negs for account sellers/buyers is legitimate, even if neither of those things are against the rules--I specifically asked Theymos about that a while back.

And why is this now suddenly a problem for you?  It's not like I just gave you that neg.

[RickDeckard]

Leaving negs for account sellers/buyers is legitimate, even if neither of those things are against the rules--I specifically asked Theymos about that a while back.

This has been something that I've been thinking for a while now - I've been reporting some threads were clearly it goes against the rules such as selling of Revolut accounts and such but whenever I encounter a thread that's clearly selling bitcointalk accounts the first thing that comes to my mind is why is this even allowed / why are the rules so "open to interpretation" that such "business" can be started. I even found this answer[1] by DireWolfM14 that states that people that buy accounts eventually feel the need to scam other people due to their inability to promote actual content (this is my open interpretation, I welcome others to read and to share their thoughts about it):

Trading accounts will often to lead people to scam, while merit abuse doesn't seem to pose the same risk (from what I've seen.)  It might be a long and convoluted road, but it starts with the reasoning behind an individual wanting to buy an account in the first place.  Some want to buy an account because they are planning a scam, and want a trusted account.  I think these are probably the exception, not the rule. 

Why do most people want buy an account when it's free to build your own?  Most of the time it's because they see the potential to earn money here on the forum, and want to cash in on that potential.  If we scrutinize many of those who are tempted to buy an account we will probably see that they are incapable of developing a profitable account on their own.  Doing so requires writing skills, patience, and a significant amount of concern for the forum (or the ability to feign concern.)  Those who come here to cash in are not likely to care about the forum, and most lack patience.

Once they find themselves having purchased an account, and possibly paying a high price for the "right" account, now what?  They must still demonstrate the writing skills and involvement to qualify for a well paying signature job.  Many will find that the account that cost them a lot of money is only part of the equation, a small part.  Writing skills, patience, and concern for the community are still required to keep the account profitable.

Once they've come to that conclusion, their frustration with the inability to earn will likely lead them to attempt a scam.  I have had people with high ranking accounts ask me for a loans, and upon scrutiny I came to the suspicion that the accounts were likely purchased, the owner was unable to profit with the account, and now is looking for a "loan" (exit scam) to compensate him for the loss of purchasing the account in the first place.

These people would be better served learning how to develop an account on their own.  If they finally come to the conclusion that they are unable to do so, they have not suffered any monetary loss, and will not likely fall into the temptation to scam anyone.  Even if they do, they will not be in a position that would garner trust.

Thing is, if most "bought" accounts end up with this kind of activity, why don't we just ban them of happening here? I know we can't ban them from being sold in other places of the internet, I just dont' think that it's good for the forum to have this economy being promoted right here in our own "home". Perhaps we do let it happen here so that we have a closed control and perhaps we could trace what accounts where bought and terminate them? A kind of "squad" that personifies potential buyers just to grab the account name and give them to mods so that they can ban / cancel it (This is actually giving me some ideas  ?

Also, @The Pharmacist, is it OK if I also start leaving negative reps to the small sample of threads/users that I find selling accounts? I was never 100 % sure that this was OK since the rules didn't forbid it but also didn't allowed it.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5219518.msg53666191#msg53666191

[isaac_clarke22]

I thought the tag was fresh, but then I realized it took almost 3 years for OP to notice the tag.

@OP, you probably didn't scam but you're selling accounts which is frowned upon in here.

~

Thing is, if most "bought" accounts end up with this kind of activity, why don't we just ban them of happening here? I know we can't ban them from being sold in other places of the internet, I just dont' think that it's good for the forum to have this economy being promoted right here in our own "home". Perhaps we do let it happen here so that we have a closed control and perhaps we could trace what accounts where bought and terminate them? A kind of "squad" that personifies potential buyers just to grab the account name and give them to mods so that they can ban / cancel it (This is actually giving me some ideas  ?

~

It would just end up little to nothing even if they banned those accounts, because these accounts sellers don't care about the accounts being sold at all. Their end goal is just to earn $$$ or BTC. It is their throwaway account in the end. They don't care if it is already tagged or banned/nuked. It is either sale or scam for them, and they don't care either of the two.

We can't do the same for the account sellers as well, because probably they'll just create new account and do it again just like why are scams not moderated.

[examplens]

admin remove pls

You know nothing about this forum and obviously don't give a shit about it--and normally I would review a feedback like the one I gave you a few years ago and remove or modify it if the member has shown evidence that he's changed his ways, but that's not the case with you.

He knows enough about this forum. 3 years ago he had a Sr.member account for sale (and sold it), so he is certainly experienced and knows how things work here. that's why it's interesting why he was bothered by the care right now because of neg. tag after 3 years. and why he cares about the Newbie account.

[El duderino_]

Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Check their trust page to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution

admin remove pls

Isn't Benteke a true scammer? I was a huge fan when he played for Aston Villa, thought he was from another planet, then he was sold for 45-50million or something to Liverpool (my favorite team).... Then the scam started, no goals, bad playing, injured etc 

[Lucius]

This has been something that I've been thinking for a while now - I've been reporting some threads were clearly it goes against the rules such as selling of Revolut accounts and such but whenever I encounter a thread that's clearly selling bitcointalk accounts the first thing that comes to my mind is why is this even allowed / why are the rules so "open to interpretation" that such "business" can be started.

I have been wondering the same thing since I registered on this forum, and I must admit that it is not yet completely clear to me why such activities are not completely banned. What should be emphasized is that buying/selling BTT accounts was completely legal until 2015 (let someone correct me if I'm wrong), and only then did it become something that was pushed into the gray zone.

...I just dont' think that it's good for the forum to have this economy being promoted right here in our own "home". Perhaps we do let it happen here so that we have a closed control and perhaps we could trace what accounts where bought and terminate them?

I agree that the current situation around buying/selling BTT accounts does not send a good message to all those who come to this forum for the first time - because it all comes down to how well someone can perform the whole operation and become a Hero or Legendary overnight. For me, buying such an account is almost identical to plagiarism - because the new owner actually takes over all the content of the old owner and presents it as his work. Someone will say with the consent of the previous owner, but this is definitely not ethically correct with everything else that comes from such purchases.

What surprises me even more is that those who sell BTT accounts or buy them are rewarded with negative feedback, while some reputable members who participate in such agreements as escrow do not bear any responsibility - at least a very strange attitude of those who lead the main word in DT. If they want to discourage this kind of trade, then everyone involved in it is equally guilty and should bear equal responsibility.

[bitcoinVPSD]

He knows enough about this forum. 3 years ago he had a Sr.member account for sale (and sold it), so he is certainly experienced and knows how things work here. that's why it's interesting why he was bothered by the care right now because of neg. tag after 3 years. and why he cares about the Newbie account.

Oh, I dont think so. 3 years ago, the merit system was born yet? What if his account was at Sr level before the merit system came out? Maybe the account came from a spammer and he doesn't even know anything about what's going on on this forum.

Isn't Benteke a true scammer? I was a huge fan when he played for Aston Villa, thought he was from another planet, then he was sold for 45-50million or something to Liverpool (my favorite team).... Then the scam started, no goals, bad playing, injured etc 

You're really funny

[Upgrade00]

Maybe the account came from a spammer and he doesn't even know anything about what's going on on this forum.

Knowing that accounts are valuable for sale and which board one should use if they wanted to start a sales thread shows the user is interested in the forum, albeit for the wrong reasons (financial motivation). Such spammers scammers actually understand about the forum as they need to escape detection or bans.

In this case, the user may have not kept up to date with new features, such as newbie warning message.

[bitcoinVPSD]

In this case, the user may have not kept up to date with new features, such as newbie warning message.

Ah see, your explanation helps me to understand better.

Such spammers scammers actually understand about the forum as they need to escape detection or bans.

By pretending they don't know about these things? Maybe creating a new account and pretending to ask dumb questions to deceive?

[RickDeckard]

I have been wondering the same thing since I registered on this forum, and I must admit that it is not yet completely clear to me why such activities are not completely banned. What should be emphasized is that buying/selling BTT accounts was completely legal until 2015 (let someone correct me if I'm wrong), and only then did it become something that was pushed into the gray zone.

Why is it even considered a gray zone? I honestly don't know what good can come out of those transactions. Am I being too blind/narrow sighted? I would really love to have a moderator comment on this matter mainly due to the fact that, for me, there are numerous negative points of view:

• By having these kind of threads opened on our forum shows that anyone with a wallet can have an account that is probably well more placed than the user would ever be if he created it. While I support the idea that whoever ends up buying these accounts ends up not being able to get all the "juice" from it because he/she will probably try to enter campaigns and their posts quality (especially newer ones) won't be on par with the other ones
• The sole activity of selling is for sure something that diminished the credibility of our forum because we allow those kind of activities to exist - While we may not support them we for sure don't block it so the gray zone isn't even a thing to be considered because for sure new members/visitors will just think "what kind of forum/website allows one to buy accounts and easily circumvent it's user class system?"
• It basically promotes futures scams. If we have so many good measures implemented to prevent/try to avoid users falling into these scams, why on Earth shouldn't we also adopt the same rigorous criteria for account selling?
  

I agree that the current situation around buying/selling BTT accounts does not send a good message to all those who come to this forum for the first time - because it all comes down to how well someone can perform the whole operation and become a Hero or Legendary overnight. For me, buying such an account is almost identical to plagiarism - because the new owner actually takes over all the content of the old owner and presents it as his work. Someone will say with the consent of the previous owner, but this is definitely not ethically correct with everything else that comes from such purchases.

For me it is even worse - you are impersonating some who you aren't and plus you're showing to other newcomers / members that there is a 2nd way for them to obtain accounts far much easier than starting their own account, and the activity itself isn't a bannable/prohibited offense, so why would they thought that they shouldn't do it? When they look at the time that they would have to invest vs paying for an "highway" entry, why wouldn't they consider the latter one?

What surprises me even more is that those who sell BTT accounts or buy them are rewarded with negative feedback, while some reputable members who participate in such agreements as escrow do not bear any responsibility - at least a very strange attitude of those who lead the main word in DT. If they want to discourage this kind of trade, then everyone involved in it is equally guilty and should bear equal responsibility.

This is also something that it is not clear to me. There's a saying in my country that's something along the lines of - You are a thief when you steal something but you're also one if you're still watching over someone who is stealing. Do you think we should open a separate thread for this discussion @Lucius? Perhaps there's really something that we are not seeing in this subject because whether we like it or not, this has been in the so called "gray zone" since 2015 ...

[Lucius]

Why is it even considered a gray zone? I honestly don't know what good can come out of those transactions. Am I being too blind/narrow sighted? I would really love to have a moderator comment on this matter mainly due to the fact that, for me, there are numerous negative points of view:

I wouldn't know how to answer the question of why it was decided to be like that, but it's not something that was decided by the moderators - the main decisions are still made by the administrators - so they are the only ones who have the authority to give a concrete answer.

This is also something that it is not clear to me. There's a saying in my country that's something along the lines of - You are a thief when you steal something but you're also one if you're still watching over someone who is stealing. Do you think we should open a separate thread for this discussion @Lucius? Perhaps there's really something that we are not seeing in this subject because whether we like it or not, this has been in the so called "gray zone" since 2015 ...

Maybe just like many wonders why scam is not moderated on this forum? It is probably about giving everyone the freedom to do whatever they want, with the community then saying what they think about it through feedback and flags. As for the new thread, believe me there have been a lot of such discussions over the years - I honestly don’t think ordinary members like you and me can change anything here - and it’s more than obvious that decision makers think no change is needed.

[friends1980]

You don't English either.

[RickDeckard]

Maybe just like many wonders why scam is not moderated on this forum? It is probably about giving everyone the freedom to do whatever they want, with the community then saying what they think about it through feedback and flags. As for the new thread, believe me there have been a lot of such discussions over the years - I honestly don’t think ordinary members like you and me can change anything here - and it’s more than obvious that decision makers think no change is needed.

Totally understand your position on this one and I have to reckon that indeed. Everything that I was able to find using the search functionally of the forum points to the same conclusion - the selling of accounts is not encouraged and members of the DT that catch up users selling accounts will probably flag them so they won't get very far here. Still, it's good to know that I'm not the only one here thinking the same way as you do 

[LTU_btc]

Maybe just like many wonders why scam is not moderated on this forum? It is probably about giving everyone the freedom to do whatever they want, with the community then saying what they think about it through feedback and flags.

I think it's also about workloads for moderators and their responsibility. Imagine what if they would to check every scam accusation, all topics in Reputation board and make decision whether someone is scammer or no. And don't forget their main job - moderating forum. I think it would be too much for them and I think current system when everything is left for community to judge. Though, it's far for perfect...
I think that account sales isn't forbidden because it would be difficult to prevent such things. Even if you have extra information like IP logs, it's not always proof that account changed hands.
But yeah, there is some things which never was clear for me, like why it was completely OK to sell accounts in past, escrow for account sales or using it as collateral.

Isn't Benteke a true scammer? I was a huge fan when he played for Aston Villa, thought he was from another planet, then he was sold for 45-50million or something to Liverpool (my favorite team).... Then the scam started, no goals, bad playing, injured etc 

LOL, you really made me laugh . When I saw OP's username, my first thought also was Christian Benteke .

[Delight Media]

Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Check their trust page to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution

admin remove pls

I suggest before saying a particular user is scammer, there should be thoroughly investigation in other not to end blackmailing a legitimate user.