Lightning bitcoin payment on this forum

[LoyceV]

I have not used lightning network before

Well, there's your problem!

I will like campaign managers to give some valid reasons they are not yet using lightning network

How about you start using LN first, before demanding others to do so?

I think in the next BTC paying campaign I will consider an LN payment if I can convince the devs of whatever the project is.

Good luck getting 50 payments request from 50 users to be paid before they expire! I'd like to see this happen though, it's better than creating dust inputs.

I need a custodial wallet that allows
1. Mass payment like using Electrum I can pay more then one address in one transaction

Talk to BlueWallet, they're active on Telegram and might be willing to add a feature for this.

Lets say your signature campaign wanted to do this, they have to:
1. Open a channel for this week/month 's payment which means sending an on-chain transaction to that channel (fee #1)
2. Send out the payment to each user on LN (a tiny LN fee for each tx)
3. Close the channel since there won't be any payment until next round (fee #2)
4. Each user (or at least most of them) that receives the payment has to close their channel and move the coins to their wallets (fee #3)
This means using LN in this case replaced 1 on-chain fee with 3 on-chain and a tiny LN fees which makes no sense.

Users shouldn't open a channel to the campaign manager, but to a node. There's no need to close the channel each week, they can just keep it open.
If the users plan to move the coins on-chain each week, then indeed using LN makes no sense. For small amounts, even exchanging from LN to some altcoin is cheaper on fees than using on-chain Bitcoin.

After using LN for a while, with both BlueWallet and Phoenix Wallet on Android, I really like it! I have no need to move funds back on-chain anymore.

Something to think about for the campaign manager: without on-chain evidence, what will you do when someone claims not to have received his payment?

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[Oshosondy]

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You have two good reasons why lightning network can not be used to manage a campaign:

1. The payment is not treaceable just like onchain transactions.
2. No wallet yet support multiple payment.

I think using lightning network should not be suggested for now, a campaign manager can just still go for altcoin like Litecoin or Monero for payment which have low transaction fee. If I am a campaign manager, I can even manage a signature campaign in which I will request users to submit both bitcoin and altcoin (like Litecoin) addresses. I may use altcoin address for payment if the network is congested as it is recently.
And as for the question, I just want to see peoples opinions. Having a lighting network bitcoin payment could be the fast reason I may choose lightning network for now, but yet I do not see any good reason I should use it, no friend around me is using it.

[LoyceV]

2. No wallet yet support multiple payment.

I've thought about it before: technically, it would be possible to create a campaign that pays a user within seconds after each post (with manual quality check to kick out abusers)! Scraping posts is easy, if you add a LN-node, each participant could receive near-instant payments.
LN isn't really designed to send payments to multiple users at once, but there's no need for that if you automate the individual payments.

[pooya87]

There's no need to close the channel each week, they can just keep it open.

Doesn't that require your client to remain online (connected to Lightning Network) to keep the channel open for the duration of multiple weeks?

[LoyceV]

There's no need to close the channel each week, they can just keep it open.

Doesn't that require your client to remain online (connected to Lightning Network) to keep the channel open for the duration of multiple weeks?

If you're thinking about a malicious node broadcasting an older channel state, then yes, your LN client should be online once in a while to prevent that.
I assumed most people keep their devices online most of the time anyway.

[Rath_]

Why is it dangerous to hold a great amount of coins with LN? You're locking your funds on a multi-sig address that you can withdraw the final result cooperatively or uncooperatively whether your node wants it or not. Am I missing anything?

Apart from what pooya87 has already said, there are some edge cases which not many people know about. For example, if you lose your channel database, you need to initiate DLP (data-loss protection) in order to get your funds back. You can do it as long as you have a backup file which was generated after you have opened all of your channels. That file contains all the necessary information you need to reestablish the connection to your peers and ask them to close your channels. Here are the possible scenarios:

1) Everything goes well and all of your peers immediately broadcast the latest commitment transaction of each channel. You will very likely get your funds back after 144 blocks have been mined.
2) Some peer takes the risk and closes the channel with an old commitment transaction. You cannot broadcast a penalty transaction because you lost all of your data.
3) Some peer is offline and cannot respond to your request. Unless they come back online, the funds are locked up in that channel which means that they are lost in a limbo.

Good luck getting 50 payments request from 50 users to be paid before they expire! I'd like to see this happen though, it's better than creating dust inputs.

That's why keysend should be required by the campaign manager. Unfortunately, it looks like it is supported only by LND and c-lightning so the participants would have to run either of these implementations 24/7.

1. The payment is not treaceable just like onchain transactions.

Something to think about for the campaign manager: without on-chain evidence, what will you do when someone claims not to have received his payment?

Each invoice contains a hashed payment preimage. In order to claim the payment (or HTLC to be more precise), the preimage needs to be revealed to the payer. Thus, the campaign manager could prove that the payment has been claimed by revealing both the invoice and the payment preimage.

A CM might even open one super LN channel for (example) ten week's worth of payments.  The Campaign funder can see the balance being used to open a channel and that it's still open week-to-week as the campaign progresses.

Last week, the participants got paid over 0.19 BTC in total. Currently, most nodes reject channels larger than ~0.1677 BTC so CM would have to either open multiple channels or a single channel to a large HUB which supports Wumbo.