Are institutional investors capable of selling their bitcoins?

[2double0]

https://bitcointreasuries.org

Please visit the link above first before reading anything here.

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries. I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

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[Gozie51]

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries. I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

The sale of bitcoin from the whales won't even make the price to drop and do you know why ? The reason is a whale selling means another whale buying. And whales will not be able to convince and coordinate each other to sell at once. So you see how it can be very difficult thing to do. And even small buyers may turn to become a current whale.

Please visit the link above first before reading anything here.

The link is nothing more than the numbers of institutional bitcoin hodlers.

[/quote]

[aoluain]

https://bitcointreasuries.org

snip

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

Lets travel back to around this time in 2013 when Bitcoin was priced around €130,
Could they have comprehend that people 8 years later would be buying Bitcoin
at €50,000 and €60,000? I doubt it very much

Fast forward another 8 years, I'll bet people will be looking back at €100,000 and
wishing they had bought Bitcoin when they had the chance.

As regards stagnancy of liquidity, the elephant in the room is the imminent reactions
to inflation after this pandemic is brought under control. Bitcoin is seen by many,
Microstrategy's Michael Saylor being the most vociferous, as being the best store of
value and of course hedge against inflation so its only a matter of time before more
investors enter the space, i dont think there will be a liquidity problem.

[2double0]

I'm not quoting anybody here but a question: Who crashed btc? Was it your 'small group of buyers that became whales' to move btc more than 7% in a day?

Hedging against inflation? Do you think traders give a fuck to the technology btc holds? Do most traders even understand what bitcoin mining is? What a miner is? All they need is quick money overnight and since institutions have joined this space, exchanges have used a very 'decent' way of making all the traders a fool by increasing the fee too much that no trader even thinks of moving their btc out of the exchange which either motivates that trader to hold their btc on the exchange and may even lose it by trading there (their choice) in spot or futures if the trader is a noob, or demotivates an enthusiast who wants to explore the beauty of how it all works, how btc moves from one wallet to another. This is only why btc is increasing in price because it's stored on exchanges and not in the hands of an average investor any more.

[tygeade]

Who crashed btc? Was it your 'small group of buyers that became whales' to move btc more than 7% in a day?

Without doubts, that are whales; it can be an old bitcoiner or a new institutions and in my opinion both do not have big differences. Moreover, there are more chances for old bitcoiners to cash out right now compared to institutions that started collecting bitcoins around $5k to $10k.

Institutions might be collecting bitcoins vigorously/blindly but at the same time they might be cashing out as well to remain highly liquidated so that they could pay their customers on demand (I guess only inside people could confirm this). If they have not planned up anything like that then probably I got better risk management to handle my loans and bitcoin stash .

[crwth]

Whether they are publicly traded, private, government, or ETF-like companies, those different types of companies have another asset in their accounts for sure, and one of them is cash. So if somehow, some investors are going to pull out their specific investment on an asset in the company, they would give them money or another reserve. It's not like they are just going to use it all at once.

They can provide that volume to produce dumps later on, but I doubt it's their goal to do that. They are betting on it to see if people will ride with them and modernize the financing institutions.

[GreatArkansas]

Who crashed btc? Was it your 'small group of buyers that became whales' to move btc more than 7% in a day?

Without doubts, that are whales; it can be an old bitcoiner or a new institutions and in my opinion both do not have big differences. Moreover, there are more chances for old bitcoiners to cash out right now compared to institutions that started collecting bitcoins around $5k to $10k.
(....)

If you take a look at this chart, this is ALL EXCHANGES INFLOW MEAN for Bitcoin, which an on-chain analysis showing the inflow of Bitcoins into exchanges.
I got a strong thought, that most of the sellers recently are retail investors, could be whales or non-whales.
I am sure, that institutional investors were able to buy cheap Bitcoin during the around $48,000 -$49,000 dips.

[Obito]

They are called "investors " which means they are also driven by the desire to make profit, not a charity organisation,  so yeah they are very capable of dumping their bags of btc anytime they see fit, just as they enter into the market without any approval so also they will exit without seeking approval,  this somehow the disadvantage of having this institutions as investors because they have the financial means to control the market.

I wouldn't say that anytime because these institutional investors are calculating when it comes to when they are going to dump their coins, it's not something that an individual investor will do where you can just dump it anytime you want, they are going to find a way to maximize their profit when they dump their coins. Even if they have the means to control the market, the market can still recover as long as there are participants in the market.

[davis196]

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

Big institutional investors have big portfolios full of different assets,so they are diversifying the risk.
Bitcoin is a risky asset,so they will have probably less than 5% of their portfolios in BTC.If the Bitcoin price goes down,this will affect a small portion of their portfolio,so the potential loss will be insignificant.
What do you mean by "stagnancy of liquidity"?Institutional investors are full with fiat money,the central banks will never let them run out of liquidity.

[Poker Player]

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

I think what Saylor says sums it all up. I don't think all companies that buy Bitcoin think exactly the same way, but I'm sure most think very much like him. Bitcoin is the best asset you can buy today, number 1. And as such, you shouldn't sell it. Ever. If you need cash, you can borrow, use to cash flow of the company or sell other assets but never the best asset in the world. Whether you buy it at $100k or $1M, it is the most powerful and scarce asset in the world, so the value will continue to grow.

[poodle63]

If their customers cashing out their money the institutional investors like you mentioned won't deduct some amount from their bitcoin investment but get the money from their own cash and I think in this case the institutional investors who have the guts to buy btc at such price and hoping the price to get high as well so they could sell because they know that the mass adoption for cryptocurrency is coming and by that time the price of btc gonna go up and due to the mass adoption the liquidity also there as well.
I'm pretty sure that they didn't but crypto without thinking of all the possibilties before hand but it's true that liquidity for when they cashing out could be hard to find without causing uproar in the market, that could also explains why they planned to hold the btc long term.

[Anonylz]

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

I think what Saylor says sums it all up. I don't think all companies that buy Bitcoin think exactly the same way, but I'm sure most think very much like him. Bitcoin is the best asset you can buy today, number 1. And as such, you shouldn't sell it. Ever. If you need cash, you can borrow, use to cash flow of the company or sell other assets but never the best asset in the world. Whether you buy it at $100k or $1M, it is the most powerful and scarce asset in the world, so the value will continue to grow.

If this is the case, btc price is expected to grow infinity then why so many people worry about little market dump as we have experienced this past few days!
why McAffee prediction of $1 million btc seem odd to many people (it doesn't matter at what year it was suppose to happen), if we all believe btc will continue to grow in price till end of time (because thats what this above staement sound to me) then we shouldn't be concerned about buying at 60k or 100k,

what is the essence of having an asset you can never sell, buying and selling is part of economic circle, if everyone who own btc decided not to sell ever, then the rest people will not be able to buy a single sat ,  i know btc is valuable asset but the Not to Sell Ever is taking things to the extreme and will not be healthy for the growth of btc.

[Mauser]

https://bitcointreasuries.org

Please visit the link above first before reading anything here.

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries. I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

I agree that institutions who invest millions into bitcoins won't be able to just sell them on an ordinary exchange. Large sell orders would just make the price fall down quickly. For such kind of transactions there would probably be over the counter transactions among large institutions. Such kind of trades are already be done with stock portfolios. So doing it with bitcoins is fine. You don't need to expect falling prices to sell your coins. It might be that the company just need money to invest into a new plant or project.

[SquallLeonhart]

Institutions might be collecting bitcoins vigorously/blindly but at the same time they might be cashing out as well to remain highly liquidated so that they could pay their customers on demand (I guess only inside people could confirm this).

There are different model based institutional firms. Some of them are doing investments as a core business but for that they are not allowing individual investors to participate DIRECTLY. They issue shares on behalf of their company and individual investors need to buy those stocks. So, if a customer needs money back they can simply sell those stocks of that company and do not need to enforce them to sell bitcoins for example.

You invest into an institution and you get back their stocks and you are free to encash or hold as per your wish. Your individual decision will not affect company's core business of what and when to buy or sell (but, when more number of people will be selling their stocks that may impact significantly).

[int03h]

Hedge funds sell their Bitcoins but not by devaluing the market because if they do, they will lose a significant portion of their profits when Bitcoin falls.
I think all their actions are in the plan that they have outlined.
If I were the owner of an investment fund I would have the following ways to sell my Bitcoin for maximum profit.
Example:
      I sell my Bitcoin in the P2P market to avoid slippage.
      I have placed a short order at the same time as my dumping and get the maximum profit from my short.

I think hedge funds will not sell their Bitcoin anytime soon because according to technical analysis Bitcoin can go further and hit higher value milestones in the near future.

[NeuroticFish]

I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

If a really big dump happens, many HODLers will be in trouble.

If a bear market starts, then even 5 days of delay is no biggy, these institutional investors will be still on great profit. And they surely have some smart analysts on their payroll which can tell clearly it's bear market or just another dip.
Then, I expect that at least some of these institutional investors have no intention to sell even if bear market starts. They are not traders/speculators and in 2-4 years the bull market will get them on even greater profit.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

Again, I think that they have analysts that can tell how big is the chance the bull run continues after 100k and advise them to buy or not. Or to sell.


If the institutional investors keep buying, the current bull run will be longer and the bear market will no longer be as bad as the previous ones. It's just a feeling though, but others have already said that this bull run is going to be different.

[fiulpro]

Okay first of all , institutions make their own profits , therefore what they are doing here is using this profit that they have earned over the years to actually buy bitcoins and it does not mean that they are using the money of the investors!!

There might be some small companies doing that but not necessarily!!

Now ofc they won't be able to sell everything at once and at the same time *they can't* until and unless any big company ask them to exchange p2p. You should understand that dump does not make the price die in a day. It might go to 50-40-30-20-10 !! It will take time now what it means is they will have time to take an action ! Plus you seriously think they are investing so much without actually employing anyone to keep an eye on it ??

Now we have something called resistance! Well it's a scientific term but implies here also. Since with the decreasing prices there will be people like us , u , me everyone dying to buy BTC ! This will shoot up the price or in the worst case scenario give them more time to sell. They are safe. It's the last thing you should be worried about.

They are not hoarding , they are rather investing , which is a wise move considering bitcoins is kind of future for the companies who really want to stay ahead of time , make some profits and at the same time expand their business.

[bitzizzix]

They think that bitcoin can be a reliable store of value and an attractive investment asset with a greater potential for long-term appreciation than holding cash.
and they are big people and have untold wealth and maybe only a small percentage are investing in bitcoin and in the long run they believe they will make a big profit if a small portion of that wealth is to buy bitcoin.
and before getting involved in bitcoin, they will learn how bitcoin works well and believe that it will provide good returns in the long run.
This is different from the big institutions or players that were involved in previous years and there is a possibility that they will sell all or part of it when it reaches yesterday's high.

[fullhdpixel]

If the institutional investors keep buying, the current bull run will be longer and the bear market will no longer be as bad as the previous ones. It's just a feeling though, but others have already said that this bull run is going to be different.

We are seeing some institutions are planning for long term holding of bitcoins (like they pay their employees in BTC and tweeting about future prices of bitcoins after decades etc) and most others are seeming like buying just for momentary benefits. Still, institutions are known for cashing out before anyone else so that they could enjoy all the benefits of final ATH. So, I am not expecting a different bear season from this current cycle of bitcoin markets.

Moreover there is a big possibilities for shorter or longer bull run on this cycle; usually bull run will end in December month but there cannot be any surprises if the current bull run may end in October itself or may last until the fist quarter of 2022 because now the end of bull run is purely into institutions' hand.

[sana54210]

There are different model based institutional firms. Some of them are doing investments as a core business but for that they are not allowing individual investors to participate DIRECTLY. They issue shares on behalf of their company and individual investors need to buy those stocks. So, if a customer needs money back they can simply sell those stocks of that company and do not need to enforce them to sell bitcoins for example.

You invest into an institution and you get back their stocks and you are free to encash or hold as per your wish. Your individual decision will not affect company's core business of what and when to buy or sell (but, when more number of people will be selling their stocks that may impact significantly).

It is more about "are they even allowed" and not "are they forced to" or "how does it work" because we know some of the companies can hold it as long as possible, look at tesla they are nothing of financial and just a car company and they bought bitcoins, which means can they sell it all when they need money? Are they allowed? Grayscale turned all of their reserve cash into bitcoin, but that was "reserve" cash which means it should stay in bitcoin until they need it again, which means they suppose to sell all of them when they are trying to make a profit.

All those come down to this simple fact, if they are not allowed to sell, that is a good thing for us, but it is bad for the investor, if they are allowed to sell, that is good too because they are not selling when they can and that means they believe in it. These are the very important parts about bitcoin and institutional investors.

[doomloop]

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries. I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

If institutional investors are able to buy bitcoin, then they are able to sell the coins as well and that’s it. Although it might not be at the same rate that they bought their coins at, but they will be able to do that and sell them. And I don’t think there is going to be situation where all the whales in the market will decide to sell at once.

Everyone has a different mindset and target and that means there is not going to be such thing where they all decide to sell all their coins that they stored on the platform at once. And as for your last question on whether Bitcoin will crash like 2018, I can’t really give you an answer to that, but I think that if it should fall, it is not going to fall as low as then.

[yhiaali3]

This is a really good question. If the bitcoin price rises to 100K$, what will make people or companies buy at that high price? The answer may be, in my personal opinion, that people or companies will expect the price of bitcoin to increase much higher in order to buy.
Always note that whenever the price of bitcoin rises, people will be convinced that the price will increase more than that and reach new historical peaks. This is what actually happens whenever Bitcoin reaches a new peak, skips it and reaches a higher peak, and people regret why they did not buy at that time.

[kpierce77]

This is a really good question. If the bitcoin price rises to 100K$, what will make people or companies buy at that high price? The answer may be, in my personal opinion, that people or companies will expect the price of bitcoin to increase much higher in order to buy.
Always note that whenever the price of bitcoin rises, people will be convinced that the price will increase more than that and reach new historical peaks. This is what actually happens whenever Bitcoin reaches a new peak, skips it and reaches a higher peak, and people regret why they did not buy at that time.

Currently, there are still quite a number of companies that have not invested in bitcoin, and we know that only a few major holders such as Tesla might be able to maintain prices if there is a market cycle. but you know, why do they buy bitcoins then the price goes up? that's because they have taken it into account, and they hope that by them putting their money into bitcoin, many retail investors will follow suit. When retail investors start to put their money on a large scale, large institutions will make a profit when the price of bitcoin continues to rise

[jaysabi]

There are different model based institutional firms. Some of them are doing investments as a core business but for that they are not allowing individual investors to participate DIRECTLY. They issue shares on behalf of their company and individual investors need to buy those stocks. So, if a customer needs money back they can simply sell those stocks of that company and do not need to enforce them to sell bitcoins for example.

You invest into an institution and you get back their stocks and you are free to encash or hold as per your wish. Your individual decision will not affect company's core business of what and when to buy or sell (but, when more number of people will be selling their stocks that may impact significantly).

It is more about "are they even allowed" and not "are they forced to" or "how does it work" because we know some of the companies can hold it as long as possible, look at tesla they are nothing of financial and just a car company and they bought bitcoins, which means can they sell it all when they need money? Are they allowed? Grayscale turned all of their reserve cash into bitcoin, but that was "reserve" cash which means it should stay in bitcoin until they need it again, which means they suppose to sell all of them when they are trying to make a profit.

All those come down to this simple fact, if they are not allowed to sell, that is a good thing for us, but it is bad for the investor, if they are allowed to sell, that is good too because they are not selling when they can and that means they believe in it. These are the very important parts about bitcoin and institutional investors.

Why wouldn't they be allowed? A company like Tesla or Microstrategy turned cash reserves into bitcoin as either a speculative investment or because they thought it would retain value better than holding cash. There's no reason they would be "unable" to reverse course and turn their bitcoin into cash. None of these companies was prohibited from buying; none of them are prohibited from selling.

[DarkIT]

This is a really good question. If the bitcoin price rises to 100K$, what will make people or companies buy at that high price? The answer may be, in my personal opinion, that people or companies will expect the price of bitcoin to increase much higher in order to buy.
Always note that whenever the price of bitcoin rises, people will be convinced that the price will increase more than that and reach new historical peaks. This is what actually happens whenever Bitcoin reaches a new peak, skips it and reaches a higher peak, and people regret why they did not buy at that time.

Currently, there are still quite a number of companies that have not invested in bitcoin, and we know that only a few major holders such as Tesla might be able to maintain prices if there is a market cycle. but you know, why do they buy bitcoins then the price goes up? that's because they have taken it into account, and they hope that by them putting their money into bitcoin, many retail investors will follow suit. When retail investors start to put their money on a large scale, large institutions will make a profit when the price of bitcoin continues to rise

Many company including tesla had a holding on bitcoin. So we are safe and they won't allow the bitcoin to less value. It's reason for the bitcoin price dump not less than a  49k$.It may be a unacceptable one. But it's true, if you deep analysis the market old chart.When the price began to reduced, it may reduced to the half the price of bitcoin. So holding make us a profit most of the time, then to sell with minimum profit.

[DoublerHunter]

^ Probably 8-10 years is enough to study the feasibility of a business model and probably I should state the fact that institutional investors do have a lot of connections out there. Intel that they have are from left to right and I don’t think they would buy BTC without any strongly founded reason. They won’t be where they are right now if they are stupid anyway. They have something they learned internally that won’t be shown in public. And that is the reason why they make decisions like this. I doubt anyone here did believe that bitcoin would increase to at least $100,000 when it is $100 worth. Dump and whales have been there since then but the process is still the same.

[Kittygalore]

Simple answer is yes, because they are like a retail investors, they just have a really big portfolio compared to a typical retail investor and it takes a lot of time to sell all of their bitcoins and other cryptocurrency since they have more. If it ever comes to them selling, there is nothing to worry because the dip that they will cause will eventually recover.

[cabron]

Is it possible that the country's government will eventually consider BTC as reserve wealth like GOLD?

if so the country's government might be buying it if these institutional investors are going to sell. $100K will just be a small amount for country's funds but this is way too wishful thinking. But if all these is a bubble to them, no matter how small the price orders are and if they are willing to dump, they will dump.

[slapper]

They will probably split their bitcoin into many batches instead of selling as a whole. No exchange is capable to withstand such a huge number of bitcoin without being sizzled. It is hard to track their activities since I have no information about which wallet they use to hold bitcoin. This means they might secretly sell bitcoin at a high price and buy it when it is low. With the current volume of bitcoin, I guess 24 hours are enough for them to sell all of their bitcoin

The point is, when will they do it and how can we know? Big hands are likely to control the games in a long term. They shape the market not just for the next months or the end of this year, they plan for a long term which calculated by years.

$100000 is a big price for bitcoin. I believe $100000 is the target of selling bitcoin. Might be only 1% of institutions dare to buy bitcoin at this price.

[Anonylz]

This guys are the top of the list and can i say that list look really robust!  no doubt institutions are getting their hands on btc and accumulating, something i think retailers, individuals should emulate,
An institution like MicroStrategy inc i don't think will sell their holdings just like that, even if they intend to do so at later years, it will be done partially in other not to affect the market price too much, they are at the top of the list and control a reasonable percent, they know what is good for business which means selling may not be part of their agenda at the moment.
It is challenging though to see such list, makes you wanna accumulate evey little sat you can get hold of.

[Lucius]

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries.

I would not agree that all these investors invest blindly, yet they are people or companies that have long-term business strategies, but it is certain that each of them involves risk - now it is only a question of how much they are really aware of that risk.

I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

As far as I know, all American companies bought Bitcoin through OTC, and if they sell it, they will do it in the same way. Their BTC was bought from probably thousands of small sellers, and I believe it can be sold the same way without affecting the price.

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Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

We are talking about companies where money is not a problem, you forget that some companies have trillions of dollars at their disposal - for the average Joe $50k for 1 BTC is almost out of reach, but for a person like Musk it is actually a very small amount - and we all know the world is full of millionaires and billionaires, and that their number is only increasing every year.

Big correction is always a realistic option, but I think all these big investments have strengthened BTC's position in the global market - so I hope none of them will allow such big corrections as they have happened in the past.

[blckhawk]

They are called "investors " which means they are also driven by the desire to make profit, not a charity organisation,  so yeah they are very capable of dumping their bags of btc anytime they see fit, just as they enter into the market without any approval so also they will exit without seeking approval,  this somehow the disadvantage of having this institutions as investors because they have the financial means to control the market.

I wouldn't say that anytime because these institutional investors are calculating when it comes to when they are going to dump their coins, it's not something that an individual investor will do where you can just dump it anytime you want, they are going to find a way to maximize their profit when they dump their coins. Even if they have the means to control the market, the market can still recover as long as there are participants in the market.

Anytime also means calculated time to dump, using the term 'Anytime ' don't mean they are going to sell when the market is down! You should be able to interpret that easily, institutions will sell whenever they feel it is beneficial to them and don't require any special procedure to do so hence my meaning of Anytime (it could be weeks, months,  years)
This is business for majority of this institutions so don't think they won't take profit whenever because that's the one reason they invented.

Because since the beginning the institution buying Bitcoin was indeed the goal to get profit, so I agree with your opinion, that whenever
an institution sells their Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to sell Bitcoin when the price is dumped. Because they definitely don't want to suffer a loss.
So if Bitcoin dumps, I am sure that institutions will not panic sell, because institutions that buy Bitcoin will buy with the extra money they have.
Therefore the institution will continue to hold Bitcoin, until the price goes up again. This is what ultimately makes Bitcoin fundamentals even stronger.

Yeah, it is just a basic thought large investors enter the market to earn profit not to waste their money and time from it so if they saw the market dipped, either they will buy even more or will just hold. The one who will only sell at this dip is those individuals who have a weak hand, panicking over a little dump. That is why I am pretty sure that Bitcoin will push further reaching 6 digits sooner and then perhaps that would be the start for them to make a profit. This bull cycle will not go off that easily because they will make a way for it to not enter the bear cycle until they get their targeted profit.

[Arkann]

I am of the opinion that if a company is engaged in asset trading, then by investing its funds in Bitcoin, it will constantly benefit from reaching the next historical maximum in Bitcoin. This is how almost every trader fixes his profit, which is displayed on the cryptocurrency market and we observe constant corrections. But if we are talking about companies that have invested their funds in Bitcoin and they have no goal to receive income from trading, then they will definitely not sell Bitcoin, but will keep this asset until it increases in price as much as possible and until it capitalization will not increase tenfold. It is during the period when Bitcoin reaches such indicators that it can rightfully be considered a reliable storehouse for capital and its rate will become quite stable.

[Kakmakr]

Institutional investors will use reputable platforms that are properly regulated to buy and sell their coins... some are even buying directly from the miners, because they are cautious about buying coins that might be implicated in crimes. (Most of the coins involved with crimes are pushed through Mixer services, so nobody will ever know that it was used in crime) 

The problem come in when these people start using OTC services, because those services do not have any influence on the Bitcoin price. (Exchange prices are commonly used to determine the price)

[Febo]

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries. I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

They will sell to whoever will want to buy at the price they will agree upon. It is totally same as if we trade. And the same as country treasuries will trade in decades to come. Price can never be negative as was the case with Oil last year. There is always a bottom price for Bitcoin. I really dont understand your concern.

[pixie85]

If Tesla could sell then anybody can. You really shouldn't worry about it.

The fact that they're interested in buying makes Bitcoin popular and strengthens its market position. If they later sell it will cause normal waves of volatility that would be there anyway.
It's the aftertaste that matters. People saw them buy and saw them profit > they saw information in the news> they will think they can profit too. Institutions that made money once will come back to buy again.

Don't worry about short-term volatility, focus on years to come.

[fullhdpixel]

This guys are the top of the list and can i say that list look really robust!  no doubt institutions are getting their hands on btc and accumulating, something i think retailers, individuals should emulate,
An institution like MicroStrategy inc i don't think will sell their holdings just like that, even if they intend to do so at later years, it will be done partially in other not to affect the market price too much, they are at the top of the list and control a reasonable percent, they know what is good for business which means selling may not be part of their agenda at the moment.
It is challenging though to see such list, makes you wanna accumulate evey little sat you can get hold of.

Why nobody talks about grayscale? I mean they are told to be holding over half a million bitcoins, is that wrong? When you google grayscale bitcoin holdings it shows around 640k bitcoins in their reserves, that looks like around 35 billion dollars.

I know it could be false flag, and I know it could be wrong numbers, if that was true it would have been a huge news and everyone would talk about it. But if it is wrong, why are they publishing that number? Why do they say they have that much money? Are they lying about how much bitcoin they have?

If they are not lying then what does it mean for everyone else, we are talking about just one place having 35 billion dollars worth of bitcoin in their accounts and that is a big deal, it should have been much bigger news if that's true. I am confused about them, I don't know what is going on with them.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

https://bitcointreasuries.org

Oh wow, I didn't know that website existed--I'm definitely bookmarking it, as I'm curious about that kind of data and I lose track mentally of which companies have bought bitcoin and how much, etc.  Thanks for including that link in your post, OP.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later?

I'm not sure I fully understand your question--nobody knows how high bitcoin is going to go, so it isn't necessarily true that buying it at a price of, say, $100k would be screwing the buyer by guaranteeing them a loss.  Nor do I think that there need to be big buyers at the ready in order for any of these corporations to sell their bitcoin.  It's quite possible to sell a huge amount over an extended period of time, which is exactly how mutual funds or other big investors sell huge chunks of stock.  They don't just dump it all on the market at once, since that would drive the price down.  Nor do they have to sell everything all at once to another buyer. 

[MCobian]

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Because since the beginning the institution buying Bitcoin was indeed the goal to get profit, so I agree with your opinion, that whenever
an institution sells their Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to sell Bitcoin when the price is dumped. Because they definitely don't want to suffer a loss.
So if Bitcoin dumps, I am sure that institutions will not panic sell, because institutions that buy Bitcoin will buy with the extra money they have.
Therefore the institution will continue to hold Bitcoin, until the price goes up again. This is what ultimately makes Bitcoin fundamentals even stronger.

Yeah, it is just a basic thought large investors enter the market to earn profit not to waste their money and time from it so if they saw the market dipped, either they will buy even more or will just hold. The one who will only sell at this dip is those individuals who have a weak hand, panicking over a little dump. That is why I am pretty sure that Bitcoin will push further reaching 6 digits sooner and then perhaps that would be the start for them to make a profit. This bull cycle will not go off that easily because they will make a way for it to not enter the bear cycle until they get their targeted profit.

If we look at the price of Bitcoin which has now managed to rise to the price of $ 54k, our assumptions regarding institutions that will not sell
Bitcoin when the price drops have been proven correct. Because the rise in the price of Bitcoin is also evident when Bitcoin falls below the $ 50k
price, that sells Bitcoin it is only people who have a weak hand. And I really hope the Bitcoin price this year can go up to the $ 100k price that
Bitcoin holders expect.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

If Tesla could sell then anybody can. You really shouldn't worry about it.

The fact that they're interested in buying makes Bitcoin popular and strengthens its market position. If they later sell it will cause normal waves of volatility that would be there anyway.
It's the aftertaste that matters. People saw them buy and saw them profit > they saw information in the news> they will think they can profit too. Institutions that made money once will come back to buy again.

Don't worry about short-term volatility, focus on years to come.

That's what I don't get about this question, I mean everyone has the right be it whale or individual investors, unless bitcoin is a widely adopted currency then it is pretty questionable that they are selling their bitcoins if they can directly use it to buy commodities. Traders have to worry about short-term since they can benefit from it.

[xSkylarx]

Of course yes like what Tesla did few days ago where they said that they sold 10% of their holdings to provide liquidity from the market. There is no problem if those institutional investors sell their holdings, if they do there are many small institutions and retailers prepared to buy it. What I just don't like is the media makes it a big issue and make it looks like a bad news to scare those weak hands causing for the market to dump hard sometimes.

[jacafbiz]

This can be your concern but it not an issue in this bull market, just look at what Elon Musk said, he said Tesla sold their Bitcoin because they want to know how liquid the market is and instead of the price of BTC to dump base on this news, it pumps. I believe they market will withstand any dump by any institutional investors

[carlfebz2]

This can be your concern but it not an issue in this bull market, just look at what Elon Musk said, he said Tesla sold their Bitcoin because they want to know how liquid the market is and instead of the price of BTC to dump base on this news, it pumps. I believe they market will withstand any dump by any institutional investors

They can really give out significant impact in the market once these big institutional investor or companies would really tend to sell out their coins on a specific period of time

but to think that there are lots who are really goes after on a cheaper coin in the market which means when it comes to support lines then there are lots who are been longing for these dips.

They can sell all they want but for sure there are people who are ready to buy when its already cheap because they've known that it will just make some recovery later on.

[Harlot]

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

One thing to mention about here is Bitcoin won't reach 100,000$ "hypothetically" if there is no demand pushing it to do so, Bitcoin going up to that value means there was a sudden increase in demand even though it went up. Your other problem with regards to them selling their cryptocurrencies it will always be a double edged sword as they can sell it all at once and do a short but in this strategy they wouldn't be able to sell all of their holdings at the highest possible price as they have put a lot of pressure on the sellers' side so the most smart thing for them to do is to sell it in trenches for them to maximize the highest profit possible while not influencing the price of Bitcoin.

[Lorence.xD]

Yes they can sell their bitcoins, it's just that they are on the long-term so it doesn't look like they are going to sell, they get in bitcoin to profit so why can't they sell their bitcoin.

[TastyChillySauce00]

This can be your concern but it not an issue in this bull market, just look at what Elon Musk said, he said Tesla sold their Bitcoin because they want to know how liquid the market is and instead of the price of BTC to dump base on this news, it pumps. I believe they market will withstand any dump by any institutional investors

In bull market it's obvious that the liquidity is overflowing but in a bearish market when people are too afraid of buying it might be a problem however not as big problem as most of people gonna imagine and it's true that the price dumps after the news coming out meaning actually the crypto market could withstand such massive dump if there's no fud accompanying. But maybe in next few years a sell off of few hundred million dollars not gonna be as impactful as today and tesla probably testing the water and make prediction on the future liquidity based on that.

[wahyu wida]

This can be your concern but it not an issue in this bull market, just look at what Elon Musk said, he said Tesla sold their Bitcoin because they want to know how liquid the market is and instead of the price of BTC to dump base on this news, it pumps. I believe they market will withstand any dump by any institutional investors

In bull market it's obvious that the liquidity is overflowing but in a bearish market when people are too afraid of buying it might be a problem however not as big problem as most of people gonna imagine and it's true that the price dumps after the news coming out meaning actually the crypto market could withstand such massive dump if there's no fud accompanying. But maybe in next few years a sell off of few hundred million dollars not gonna be as impactful as today and tesla probably testing the water and make prediction on the future liquidity based on that.

we see the crypto market as sensitive to news. but this is more focused on the psychology game of each trader. I think this is what whales use to make a profit by exploiting these weaknesses. people will tend to be fomo if they see prices continue to rise, without them thinking that there will be a correction that we can use to buy, that is one example

[grabpopcorn536]

Bitcoin has increased in value significantly since institutions took notice and bought Bitcoin. I think they will sell their portfolios to take profit. We mustn't know how they will do it. They cannot sell them all at once because it is unwise to have a good profit.
Take profit is part of investment and it is bound to happen.

[noorammak]

Bitcoin fell sharply in April and quickly recovered. Along with that event is the fact that Tesla has announced 10% profit-taking on the amount of Bitcoin it has purchased previously.
We don't know when institutions sell their Bitcoins, but if they all sell-off, the value of Bitcoin will drop drastically. I think they will have a plan to run away from the market without disturbing the entire market.

[Gozie51]

Of course yes like what Tesla did few days ago where they said that they sold 10% of their holdings to provide liquidity from the market. There is no problem if those institutional investors sell their holdings, if they do there are many small institutions and retailers prepared to buy it. What I just don't like is the media makes it a big issue and make it looks like a bad news to scare those weak hands causing for the market to dump hard sometimes.

At this time I don't think any institutional hodler will be ready to dump significant number of their hodling in trying to risk the dumping of price. More investors are ready to share from that hodling instantly. I think what can cause such dump is when there is little sell and demand and market becomes less volatile then these may create panic and dumping out of fear can begin to happen. And if for example that there is a bad news from either channels that have approved the used of bitcoin but even with that, price may not drop because P2P is still available for use.

[Issa56]

From the little experience am having and from the research have done I don't think any institutional investors will definitely sell of there bitcoin currently I see no reason why they sell there bitcoin now because they know that bitcoin current price is still very low which they won't really want to sell now everybody really want to make huge profits and they know bitcoin will pump in the nearest future. If the institutional investors decide to sell off there coin definitely the price of bitcoin will drop a little bit but there are lot's of investors that are ready to buy the coin instantly and bitcoin will still pump back.

[Argoo]

I see no reason to even doubt it. Institutional investors are businessmen like everyone else, only larger. They also invest in cryptocurrency to make a profit. This means that they can also sell it at any time, if they deem it necessary. It is generally accepted that institutional investors buy cryptocurrency for a longer period. This is partly true. They have much better planning than an individual and urgent purchases are less common. However, all the same, these are the same business entities as others.

[zanezane]

The answer is yes, they can sell their bitcoins, they have their reasons to buy bitcoin and hodling for the sake of the other people isn't one of them. This thread wouldn't exist if OP asked himself as to what he/she is going to do if OP has a lot of bitcoin which is pretty obvious that OP will sell those bitcoins.

[imstillthebest]

The answer is yes, they can sell their bitcoins, they have their reasons to buy bitcoin and hodling for the sake of the other people isn't one of them. This thread wouldn't exist if OP asked himself as to what he/she is going to do if OP has a lot of bitcoin which is pretty obvious that OP will sell those bitcoins.

this is the common answer that we will get in this question but it isnt
. this is why op ask us to visit the link because they expose the truth about institutional investor  .
if they are blindly buying btc , they could also care less selling thier btc . investing has risks and an investor should accept if the company that they invest in wont pay them anything . in terms of liquidating , institutions can sell large amount and there will always be buyers at any price point

[Chato1977]

I think they are literally no plan at all of selling their Bitcoins for a specific time even if the price of bitcoin drops hard sooner.
because they trust bitcoin that will come back hyping in future so Just like the Early adopter did, these institutional investors now are doing what we popularly called HODL and i think this is what they  really tended to do thats why they are still accumulating even if the value is increasing more and more.

[hannahB4]

Firstly, I would want you to ponder on how they bought those coins, simple logic they sell off whenever they are ready and I know that they won't stand up in a day and sell off all their coin and even if they decided to sell all off I can guarantee you that they will get sellers for it at whatsoever price it becomes. Real Investors won't consider the amount they are spending in buying the coin but see afar the profit it will yield after procurement.