Are institutional investors capable of selling their bitcoins?

[doomloop]

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries. I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

If institutional investors are able to buy bitcoin, then they are able to sell the coins as well and that’s it. Although it might not be at the same rate that they bought their coins at, but they will be able to do that and sell them. And I don’t think there is going to be situation where all the whales in the market will decide to sell at once.

Everyone has a different mindset and target and that means there is not going to be such thing where they all decide to sell all their coins that they stored on the platform at once. And as for your last question on whether Bitcoin will crash like 2018, I can’t really give you an answer to that, but I think that if it should fall, it is not going to fall as low as then.

[1715546729]

1715546729

[1715546729]

1715546729

[1715546729]

1715546729

[1715546729]

1715546729

[1715546729]

1715546729

[1715546729]

1715546729

[yhiaali3]

This is a really good question. If the bitcoin price rises to 100K$, what will make people or companies buy at that high price? The answer may be, in my personal opinion, that people or companies will expect the price of bitcoin to increase much higher in order to buy.
Always note that whenever the price of bitcoin rises, people will be convinced that the price will increase more than that and reach new historical peaks. This is what actually happens whenever Bitcoin reaches a new peak, skips it and reaches a higher peak, and people regret why they did not buy at that time.

[kpierce77]

This is a really good question. If the bitcoin price rises to 100K$, what will make people or companies buy at that high price? The answer may be, in my personal opinion, that people or companies will expect the price of bitcoin to increase much higher in order to buy.
Always note that whenever the price of bitcoin rises, people will be convinced that the price will increase more than that and reach new historical peaks. This is what actually happens whenever Bitcoin reaches a new peak, skips it and reaches a higher peak, and people regret why they did not buy at that time.

Currently, there are still quite a number of companies that have not invested in bitcoin, and we know that only a few major holders such as Tesla might be able to maintain prices if there is a market cycle. but you know, why do they buy bitcoins then the price goes up? that's because they have taken it into account, and they hope that by them putting their money into bitcoin, many retail investors will follow suit. When retail investors start to put their money on a large scale, large institutions will make a profit when the price of bitcoin continues to rise

[jaysabi]

There are different model based institutional firms. Some of them are doing investments as a core business but for that they are not allowing individual investors to participate DIRECTLY. They issue shares on behalf of their company and individual investors need to buy those stocks. So, if a customer needs money back they can simply sell those stocks of that company and do not need to enforce them to sell bitcoins for example.

You invest into an institution and you get back their stocks and you are free to encash or hold as per your wish. Your individual decision will not affect company's core business of what and when to buy or sell (but, when more number of people will be selling their stocks that may impact significantly).

It is more about "are they even allowed" and not "are they forced to" or "how does it work" because we know some of the companies can hold it as long as possible, look at tesla they are nothing of financial and just a car company and they bought bitcoins, which means can they sell it all when they need money? Are they allowed? Grayscale turned all of their reserve cash into bitcoin, but that was "reserve" cash which means it should stay in bitcoin until they need it again, which means they suppose to sell all of them when they are trying to make a profit.

All those come down to this simple fact, if they are not allowed to sell, that is a good thing for us, but it is bad for the investor, if they are allowed to sell, that is good too because they are not selling when they can and that means they believe in it. These are the very important parts about bitcoin and institutional investors.

Why wouldn't they be allowed? A company like Tesla or Microstrategy turned cash reserves into bitcoin as either a speculative investment or because they thought it would retain value better than holding cash. There's no reason they would be "unable" to reverse course and turn their bitcoin into cash. None of these companies was prohibited from buying; none of them are prohibited from selling.

[DarkIT]

This is a really good question. If the bitcoin price rises to 100K$, what will make people or companies buy at that high price? The answer may be, in my personal opinion, that people or companies will expect the price of bitcoin to increase much higher in order to buy.
Always note that whenever the price of bitcoin rises, people will be convinced that the price will increase more than that and reach new historical peaks. This is what actually happens whenever Bitcoin reaches a new peak, skips it and reaches a higher peak, and people regret why they did not buy at that time.

Currently, there are still quite a number of companies that have not invested in bitcoin, and we know that only a few major holders such as Tesla might be able to maintain prices if there is a market cycle. but you know, why do they buy bitcoins then the price goes up? that's because they have taken it into account, and they hope that by them putting their money into bitcoin, many retail investors will follow suit. When retail investors start to put their money on a large scale, large institutions will make a profit when the price of bitcoin continues to rise

Many company including tesla had a holding on bitcoin. So we are safe and they won't allow the bitcoin to less value. It's reason for the bitcoin price dump not less than a  49k$.It may be a unacceptable one. But it's true, if you deep analysis the market old chart.When the price began to reduced, it may reduced to the half the price of bitcoin. So holding make us a profit most of the time, then to sell with minimum profit.

[DoublerHunter]

^ Probably 8-10 years is enough to study the feasibility of a business model and probably I should state the fact that institutional investors do have a lot of connections out there. Intel that they have are from left to right and I don’t think they would buy BTC without any strongly founded reason. They won’t be where they are right now if they are stupid anyway. They have something they learned internally that won’t be shown in public. And that is the reason why they make decisions like this. I doubt anyone here did believe that bitcoin would increase to at least $100,000 when it is $100 worth. Dump and whales have been there since then but the process is still the same.

[Kittygalore]

Simple answer is yes, because they are like a retail investors, they just have a really big portfolio compared to a typical retail investor and it takes a lot of time to sell all of their bitcoins and other cryptocurrency since they have more. If it ever comes to them selling, there is nothing to worry because the dip that they will cause will eventually recover.

[cabron]

Is it possible that the country's government will eventually consider BTC as reserve wealth like GOLD?

if so the country's government might be buying it if these institutional investors are going to sell. $100K will just be a small amount for country's funds but this is way too wishful thinking. But if all these is a bubble to them, no matter how small the price orders are and if they are willing to dump, they will dump.

[slapper]

They will probably split their bitcoin into many batches instead of selling as a whole. No exchange is capable to withstand such a huge number of bitcoin without being sizzled. It is hard to track their activities since I have no information about which wallet they use to hold bitcoin. This means they might secretly sell bitcoin at a high price and buy it when it is low. With the current volume of bitcoin, I guess 24 hours are enough for them to sell all of their bitcoin

The point is, when will they do it and how can we know? Big hands are likely to control the games in a long term. They shape the market not just for the next months or the end of this year, they plan for a long term which calculated by years.

$100000 is a big price for bitcoin. I believe $100000 is the target of selling bitcoin. Might be only 1% of institutions dare to buy bitcoin at this price.

[Anonylz]

This guys are the top of the list and can i say that list look really robust!  no doubt institutions are getting their hands on btc and accumulating, something i think retailers, individuals should emulate,
An institution like MicroStrategy inc i don't think will sell their holdings just like that, even if they intend to do so at later years, it will be done partially in other not to affect the market price too much, they are at the top of the list and control a reasonable percent, they know what is good for business which means selling may not be part of their agenda at the moment.
It is challenging though to see such list, makes you wanna accumulate evey little sat you can get hold of.

[Lucius]

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries.

I would not agree that all these investors invest blindly, yet they are people or companies that have long-term business strategies, but it is certain that each of them involves risk - now it is only a question of how much they are really aware of that risk.

I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

As far as I know, all American companies bought Bitcoin through OTC, and if they sell it, they will do it in the same way. Their BTC was bought from probably thousands of small sellers, and I believe it can be sold the same way without affecting the price.

Coinbase was selected as the primary execution partner by MicroStrategy

We’re excited to announce that Coinbase was selected as the primary execution partner for MicroStrategy’s $425 million purchase of Bitcoin earlier this year. Using our advanced execution capabilities, leading crypto prime brokerage platform, and OTC desk, we were able to buy a significant amount of bitcoin on behalf of MicroStrategy and did so without moving the market. MicroStrategy chose Coinbase because of our market leading tools, which include smart order routing and advanced algorithms as well as our white glove sales and trading services.

Our system takes a single large order and breaks it into many small pieces that are executed across multiple trading venues. This type of smart order routing minimizes the trade’s market impact and helps disguise the overall trade size. Leveraging our technology, the trading team achieved an average execution price that was less than the price at which buying started. In periods of high volatility, our advanced trading tools improved the client execution by as much as 1%. For MicroStrategy, this strategy resulted in savings of approximately $4.25 million.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later? Do you think there is any point where a stagnancy of liquidity or financial crunch may affect the price of btc so badly that it can reverse down like it did in the 2018 crash?

We are talking about companies where money is not a problem, you forget that some companies have trillions of dollars at their disposal - for the average Joe $50k for 1 BTC is almost out of reach, but for a person like Musk it is actually a very small amount - and we all know the world is full of millionaires and billionaires, and that their number is only increasing every year.

Big correction is always a realistic option, but I think all these big investments have strengthened BTC's position in the global market - so I hope none of them will allow such big corrections as they have happened in the past.

[blckhawk]

They are called "investors " which means they are also driven by the desire to make profit, not a charity organisation,  so yeah they are very capable of dumping their bags of btc anytime they see fit, just as they enter into the market without any approval so also they will exit without seeking approval,  this somehow the disadvantage of having this institutions as investors because they have the financial means to control the market.

I wouldn't say that anytime because these institutional investors are calculating when it comes to when they are going to dump their coins, it's not something that an individual investor will do where you can just dump it anytime you want, they are going to find a way to maximize their profit when they dump their coins. Even if they have the means to control the market, the market can still recover as long as there are participants in the market.

Anytime also means calculated time to dump, using the term 'Anytime ' don't mean they are going to sell when the market is down! You should be able to interpret that easily, institutions will sell whenever they feel it is beneficial to them and don't require any special procedure to do so hence my meaning of Anytime (it could be weeks, months,  years)
This is business for majority of this institutions so don't think they won't take profit whenever because that's the one reason they invented.

Because since the beginning the institution buying Bitcoin was indeed the goal to get profit, so I agree with your opinion, that whenever
an institution sells their Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to sell Bitcoin when the price is dumped. Because they definitely don't want to suffer a loss.
So if Bitcoin dumps, I am sure that institutions will not panic sell, because institutions that buy Bitcoin will buy with the extra money they have.
Therefore the institution will continue to hold Bitcoin, until the price goes up again. This is what ultimately makes Bitcoin fundamentals even stronger.

Yeah, it is just a basic thought large investors enter the market to earn profit not to waste their money and time from it so if they saw the market dipped, either they will buy even more or will just hold. The one who will only sell at this dip is those individuals who have a weak hand, panicking over a little dump. That is why I am pretty sure that Bitcoin will push further reaching 6 digits sooner and then perhaps that would be the start for them to make a profit. This bull cycle will not go off that easily because they will make a way for it to not enter the bear cycle until they get their targeted profit.

[Arkann]

I am of the opinion that if a company is engaged in asset trading, then by investing its funds in Bitcoin, it will constantly benefit from reaching the next historical maximum in Bitcoin. This is how almost every trader fixes his profit, which is displayed on the cryptocurrency market and we observe constant corrections. But if we are talking about companies that have invested their funds in Bitcoin and they have no goal to receive income from trading, then they will definitely not sell Bitcoin, but will keep this asset until it increases in price as much as possible and until it capitalization will not increase tenfold. It is during the period when Bitcoin reaches such indicators that it can rightfully be considered a reliable storehouse for capital and its rate will become quite stable.

[Kakmakr]

Institutional investors will use reputable platforms that are properly regulated to buy and sell their coins... some are even buying directly from the miners, because they are cautious about buying coins that might be implicated in crimes. (Most of the coins involved with crimes are pushed through Mixer services, so nobody will ever know that it was used in crime) 

The problem come in when these people start using OTC services, because those services do not have any influence on the Bitcoin price. (Exchange prices are commonly used to determine the price)

[Febo]

After visiting there, all of you can see that how institutional investors are 'blindly' collecting bitcoins and adding more and more btc to their treasuries. I am too much curious and confused to understand how they will manage to sell all of their btc if some day a big dump arrives, or if their investors start to take out their investments and ask them to sell the btc and pay them. For an institution to pull out their btc from their wallets and sell, there needs to be an institution or a very big whale on the other hand to buy all that and they will also need that much big liquidity for the same.

They will sell to whoever will want to buy at the price they will agree upon. It is totally same as if we trade. And the same as country treasuries will trade in decades to come. Price can never be negative as was the case with Oil last year. There is always a bottom price for Bitcoin. I really dont understand your concern.

[pixie85]

If Tesla could sell then anybody can. You really shouldn't worry about it.

The fact that they're interested in buying makes Bitcoin popular and strengthens its market position. If they later sell it will cause normal waves of volatility that would be there anyway.
It's the aftertaste that matters. People saw them buy and saw them profit > they saw information in the news> they will think they can profit too. Institutions that made money once will come back to buy again.

Don't worry about short-term volatility, focus on years to come.

[fullhdpixel]

This guys are the top of the list and can i say that list look really robust!  no doubt institutions are getting their hands on btc and accumulating, something i think retailers, individuals should emulate,
An institution like MicroStrategy inc i don't think will sell their holdings just like that, even if they intend to do so at later years, it will be done partially in other not to affect the market price too much, they are at the top of the list and control a reasonable percent, they know what is good for business which means selling may not be part of their agenda at the moment.
It is challenging though to see such list, makes you wanna accumulate evey little sat you can get hold of.

Why nobody talks about grayscale? I mean they are told to be holding over half a million bitcoins, is that wrong? When you google grayscale bitcoin holdings it shows around 640k bitcoins in their reserves, that looks like around 35 billion dollars.

I know it could be false flag, and I know it could be wrong numbers, if that was true it would have been a huge news and everyone would talk about it. But if it is wrong, why are they publishing that number? Why do they say they have that much money? Are they lying about how much bitcoin they have?

If they are not lying then what does it mean for everyone else, we are talking about just one place having 35 billion dollars worth of bitcoin in their accounts and that is a big deal, it should have been much bigger news if that's true. I am confused about them, I don't know what is going on with them.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

https://bitcointreasuries.org

Oh wow, I didn't know that website existed--I'm definitely bookmarking it, as I'm curious about that kind of data and I lose track mentally of which companies have bought bitcoin and how much, etc.  Thanks for including that link in your post, OP.

Now, a very common logic, which institution would like to buy btc at $100k or even at million dollars when the seller institution is already taking out big profits in fiat by selling their btc to the buyer Institution? Won't that btc be coming with an impermanent loss if the price dumps later?

I'm not sure I fully understand your question--nobody knows how high bitcoin is going to go, so it isn't necessarily true that buying it at a price of, say, $100k would be screwing the buyer by guaranteeing them a loss.  Nor do I think that there need to be big buyers at the ready in order for any of these corporations to sell their bitcoin.  It's quite possible to sell a huge amount over an extended period of time, which is exactly how mutual funds or other big investors sell huge chunks of stock.  They don't just dump it all on the market at once, since that would drive the price down.  Nor do they have to sell everything all at once to another buyer. 

[MCobian]

~

~

~

Because since the beginning the institution buying Bitcoin was indeed the goal to get profit, so I agree with your opinion, that whenever
an institution sells their Bitcoin, it is impossible for them to sell Bitcoin when the price is dumped. Because they definitely don't want to suffer a loss.
So if Bitcoin dumps, I am sure that institutions will not panic sell, because institutions that buy Bitcoin will buy with the extra money they have.
Therefore the institution will continue to hold Bitcoin, until the price goes up again. This is what ultimately makes Bitcoin fundamentals even stronger.

Yeah, it is just a basic thought large investors enter the market to earn profit not to waste their money and time from it so if they saw the market dipped, either they will buy even more or will just hold. The one who will only sell at this dip is those individuals who have a weak hand, panicking over a little dump. That is why I am pretty sure that Bitcoin will push further reaching 6 digits sooner and then perhaps that would be the start for them to make a profit. This bull cycle will not go off that easily because they will make a way for it to not enter the bear cycle until they get their targeted profit.

If we look at the price of Bitcoin which has now managed to rise to the price of $ 54k, our assumptions regarding institutions that will not sell
Bitcoin when the price drops have been proven correct. Because the rise in the price of Bitcoin is also evident when Bitcoin falls below the $ 50k
price, that sells Bitcoin it is only people who have a weak hand. And I really hope the Bitcoin price this year can go up to the $ 100k price that
Bitcoin holders expect.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

If Tesla could sell then anybody can. You really shouldn't worry about it.

The fact that they're interested in buying makes Bitcoin popular and strengthens its market position. If they later sell it will cause normal waves of volatility that would be there anyway.
It's the aftertaste that matters. People saw them buy and saw them profit > they saw information in the news> they will think they can profit too. Institutions that made money once will come back to buy again.

Don't worry about short-term volatility, focus on years to come.

That's what I don't get about this question, I mean everyone has the right be it whale or individual investors, unless bitcoin is a widely adopted currency then it is pretty questionable that they are selling their bitcoins if they can directly use it to buy commodities. Traders have to worry about short-term since they can benefit from it.