Tesla still an unprofitable automaker

[Sithara007]

As far as the EV's go... I am not really a EV believer. I will buy a petro-car as long as they let me buy it. Not really a fan of batteries.

Not surprised. EVs are unaffordable and not worth the money under current circumstances. A Tesla Model S costs around $80,000, and you can get a decent gasoline-driven car with the same specs for around $20,000. So right now, purchasing an EV doesn't make any financial sense. Still you can go for it, for ideological purposes. The issue here is that ideological factor may not drive enough sales. The EV needs to be more affordable. A difference of 4x is too much. If it was 1.5x to 2.0x, then more people would consider purchasing EVs.

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[acquafredda]

I am not at all convinced by these electric vehicles: first of all, they still rely mostly on fossil fuels to run (sorry, the truth); secondly, their batteries are going to be another environmental bomb in the future (not considering the car itself is an actual bomb if something goes wrong!); third and last, at least here in Italy, charging station are not common, and if you live in rural areas and you make long trips, you are done.

[mindrust]

As far as the EV's go... I am not really a EV believer. I will buy a petro-car as long as they let me buy it. Not really a fan of batteries.

Not surprised. EVs are unaffordable and not worth the money under current circumstances. A Tesla Model S costs around $80,000, and you can get a decent gasoline-driven car with the same specs for around $20,000. So right now, purchasing an EV doesn't make any financial sense. Still you can go for it, for ideological purposes. The issue here is that ideological factor may not drive enough sales. The EV needs to be more affordable. A difference of 4x is too much. If it was 1.5x to 2.0x, then more people would consider purchasing EVs.

Make no mistake, I wouldn't buy one even they were selling a Model 3 for $20k. I'd still prefer a oil-powered car.

1- Their batteries are very expensive and you don't really know when they are going to crap on you.
2- I don't trust their safety. Sometimes they get overheated and burn you alive.
3- When you get a car accident the chances are your car won't ever get a repair and their re-sell value is not that great. (Most likely it is 0.)
4- Even when you fast-charge it, it is still not as fast as pumping oil.
5- The range is not great.
6- It is not green energy. It is just another form of energy.

Tldr; EVs suck.

[(o)(o)ilikeboobs(o)(o)]

Tesla is a large technology corporation. They make profits from energy batteries, sell intellectual products, and manufacture and sell electric cars. Most recently they traded Bitcoin.
It's not unusual for a car business to be profitable for a tech corporation to be profitable, but fortunately, they can make money in other businesses.
If they continue to be unprofitable, they may lose market share by other electric car corporations.

[perfect999]

Tesla is like dogecoin, they are here only because of Elon Musk

That’s the same thing with every company, they are there because of their founders or team lol. As long as they do a really good job at promoting their company and their products, and also delivering what they promised, then it’s sure going to keep growing.

In some sense Tesla sound like Amazon which is known for operating in the beginning days for non-profits and over the time they slowly changing policies to gain profits; Tesla might be following that.

[mindrust]

That’s the same thing with every company, they are there because of their founders or team lol.

Not necessarily true.

Sometimes the product is so good, nobody knows the founder or the team. Do you know the CEO of PepsiCo or Nvidia? I don't. I bet many people also don't and yet they buy their products all the time.

If you talk about the CEO more than you talk about the product, that's a very bad sign for the company. TSLA has this all over on them.

[Silberman]

I am not at all convinced by these electric vehicles: first of all, they still rely mostly on fossil fuels to run (sorry, the truth); secondly, their batteries are going to be another environmental bomb in the future (not considering the car itself is an actual bomb if something goes wrong!); third and last, at least here in Italy, charging station are not common, and if you live in rural areas and you make long trips, you are done.

I agree, the technology is interesting and there could be a niche market for it but if it was so good above the rest then it would have taken over the industry long time ago, I see Tesla cars the same way I see apple products, they are not really selling a car they are selling a brand, but if you do not really care about the brand then you find out that you can get a product with similar specifications way cheaper with other companies and that is always going to beat any brand marketing.

[milewilda]

I am not at all convinced by these electric vehicles: first of all, they still rely mostly on fossil fuels to run (sorry, the truth); secondly, their batteries are going to be another environmental bomb in the future (not considering the car itself is an actual bomb if something goes wrong!); third and last, at least here in Italy, charging station are not common, and if you live in rural areas and you make long trips, you are done.

This is on point where most of things do still prefer on petrol running vehicles when it comes to power and reliability.Yes, it might be that capable but there are other side or key areas on which an electric vehicle cant able to do so, therefore, people do still stick out into traditional things but im not saying that Tesla is shit but there nothing can beat out the traditional automakers out there even though they are considering on build some
EV's but it wont really become a trend.Last, just let Tesla do their own thing and even this one is unprofitable then they are the ones who would make out some losses not us.If you do opt to own one
then its up to your choice but if not then just better ignore and skip on it.This isnt really needing to elaborate which is profitable and which isnt.

[jaysabi]

As far as the EV's go... I am not really a EV believer. I will buy a petro-car as long as they let me buy it. Not really a fan of batteries.

Not surprised. EVs are unaffordable and not worth the money under current circumstances. A Tesla Model S costs around $80,000, and you can get a decent gasoline-driven car with the same specs for around $20,000. So right now, purchasing an EV doesn't make any financial sense. Still you can go for it, for ideological purposes. The issue here is that ideological factor may not drive enough sales. The EV needs to be more affordable. A difference of 4x is too much. If it was 1.5x to 2.0x, then more people would consider purchasing EVs.

The Model S is their higher end offering, it's not meant to be the mass market car. The Telsa Model 3 is the mass market car with a price range in the $30,000 range, so much more affordable to the masses. This brings it close to what the average price paid for a new car is. With the lower price comes compressed margins though, so as Model 3s take up a larger share of revenues, the gross profit on these cars will be considerably less than what Tesla has experienced thus far, which proves another problem for the current valuation.

[zanezane]

It's unprofitable because they are still a luxury car in terms of their prices and it costs an arm and leg to buy heir least expensive unit, maybe if they are able to tap into the economic cars unit, they will probably go up in profit but right now, I don't think so. Also, I feel like oil companies are conspiring against Tesla because when electric cars become the dominant one, their products will be unwanted and sales are going to plummet real bad.

[jaysabi]

It's unprofitable because they are still a luxury car in terms of their prices and it costs an arm and leg to buy heir least expensive unit, maybe if they are able to tap into the economic cars unit, they will probably go up in profit but right now, I don't think so. Also, I feel like oil companies are conspiring against Tesla because when electric cars become the dominant one, their products will be unwanted and sales are going to plummet real bad.

I don't think the Model 3 is out of reach for the majority of Americans, and that's the car they're bringing to mass production in hopes of reaching the masses. The problem is the Model 3 is not nearly as profitable as the other Tesla models, even at scale, so margins will compress as they sell more of those cars.

[Sithara007]

The Model S is their higher end offering, it's not meant to be the mass market car. The Telsa Model 3 is the mass market car with a price range in the $30,000 range, so much more affordable to the masses. This brings it close to what the average price paid for a new car is. With the lower price comes compressed margins though, so as Model 3s take up a larger share of revenues, the gross profit on these cars will be considerably less than what Tesla has experienced thus far, which proves another problem for the current valuation.

Are you sure that the Telsa Model 3 costs only $30,000? From what I heard, the base model costs around $45,000 and the higher end modifications cost up to $60,000. But even at $45,000 I have to admit that it is closer to being affordable for the middle class. But I have doubts regarding the battery. Do they use the same battery technology as they use in Model S? Or is it of a different composition? Model S uses Lithium-ion batteries produced by Panasonic in state of Nevada. 

[Karartma1]

If you'd go on the official Tesla website instead of guessing about what you heard you will see for yourself that the Standard Range Plus Model 3 costs $33,690 (and if you are a California resident the price shown include the $1,500 California Clean Fuel Reward and potential incentives and gas savings of $4,300).
Model 3 Long Range is priced at $42,690 and the Performance stays at $51,190.
https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview

[bryant.coleman]

If you'd go on the official Tesla website instead of guessing about what you heard you will see for yourself that the Standard Range Plus Model 3 costs $33,690 (and if you are a California resident the price shown include the $1,500 California Clean Fuel Reward and potential incentives and gas savings of $4,300).
Model 3 Long Range is priced at $42,690 and the Performance stays at $51,190.
https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview

So $33,690 for an EV, with a range of 424 km? Looks like a very attractive option. And now the crude oil prices are going up once again, and that reduces the attractiveness of the gasoline run vehicles. But there is a catch. This $33,690 is including "potential savings". The purchase price is $39,490. A lot of potential buyers will look into the purchase price, rather than the price after all the savings. So that comes to around $40K, which is still somewhat affordable for the middle class families in the United States.

[mindrust]

So $33,690 for an EV, with a range of 424 km? Looks like a very attractive option.

Not really.

Charging at Superchargers – Charging at a Tesla Supercharger while on the road usually takes anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour, or sometimes a little more depending on the charger and the vehicle.

https://www.autopilotreview.com/how-long-charge-a-tesla/

How long do you need to refuel your gas car? 5 minutes?

Texas doesn’t receive snow very often, but when it does, it apparently skyrockets the price of electricity.

On Tuesday, Oilprice.com reported that Texas’ current weather disaster, and subsequent electricity shortage, has electric vehicle (EV) charging prices surging, with the cost of charging a Tesla equating to about $900 (USD). The same charge in Texas at any non-emergency time would normally only cost about $18 (USD) using either a Level 1 or Level 2 charger at home.

It Costs $900 to Charge a Tesla During Texas’ Snowstorm Electricity Shortage


On the other hand, you can get a brand new gasoline-only Toyota Camry for $25k.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/174760835403?hash=item28b08eb94b:g:JP4AAOSwl6lglUvv

No bullshit, no batteries, cheap, new, built like a tank.

Impossible to beat a Toyota.

What's the range of a Camry btw? I bet it is at least twice of a Model3.

[Karartma1]

Even Elon Musk said he drives a Toyata Prius during his Saturday Night Live Opening (he was kidding, obviously).
I'd also not consider buying a Tesla, it is overpriced for my standards, there are far better options.
Another thing is I'd never buy full-electric, maybe hybrid or I'd stick to the old fashioned LPG.

[Ultegra134]

I am not at all convinced by these electric vehicles: first of all, they still rely mostly on fossil fuels to run (sorry, the truth); secondly, their batteries are going to be another environmental bomb in the future (not considering the car itself is an actual bomb if something goes wrong!); third and last, at least here in Italy, charging station are not common, and if you live in rural areas and you make long trips, you are done.

It's only the beginning, before Tesla, there were only few electric cars available on the market. Tesla's patents are open source, more and more companies are releasing full EV models, offering decent range, (above 400kms) who can actually compete with Tesla's vehicles (Jaguar I-Pace, Audi E-Tron, Volvo XC40) and many more who are yet to come.

I believe that electric cars have a long way to go, but that technology will be dominant in the future. For instance, Plug-in Hybrids are way cheaper than full EVs, offer great mileage and a decent full electric range.

[Vishnu.Reang]

It's only the beginning, before Tesla, there were only few electric cars available on the market. Tesla's patents are open source, more and more companies are releasing full EV models, offering decent range, (above 400kms) who can actually compete with Tesla's vehicles (Jaguar I-Pace, Audi E-Tron, Volvo XC40) and many more who are yet to come.

I believe that electric cars have a long way to go, but that technology will be dominant in the future. For instance, Plug-in Hybrids are way cheaper than full EVs, offer great mileage and a decent full electric range.

The other EV brands will take time to capture market share for themselves. It will take many years before they are able to match the level of recognition attained by Tesla. And we still don't know much about the performance of these brands. Companies such as Jaguar and Volvo are pretty new to the EV sector. So if there is some issue with the technology, it is going to be very difficult for these companies to resolve them on time. The patents may be open source, but operational knowledge and experience can't be transferred directly.

[Ultegra134]

It's only the beginning, before Tesla, there were only few electric cars available on the market. Tesla's patents are open source, more and more companies are releasing full EV models, offering decent range, (above 400kms) who can actually compete with Tesla's vehicles (Jaguar I-Pace, Audi E-Tron, Volvo XC40) and many more who are yet to come.

I believe that electric cars have a long way to go, but that technology will be dominant in the future. For instance, Plug-in Hybrids are way cheaper than full EVs, offer great mileage and a decent full electric range.

The other EV brands will take time to capture market share for themselves. It will take many years before they are able to match the level of recognition attained by Tesla. And we still don't know much about the performance of these brands. Companies such as Jaguar and Volvo are pretty new to the EV sector. So if there is some issue with the technology, it is going to be very difficult for these companies to resolve them on time. The patents may be open source, but operational knowledge and experience can't be transferred directly.

Tesla was probably the first one to build well-designed electric vehicles. At the beginning of the EV era, most if not all electric cars looked like crap (see first generation Nissan Leaf), Tesla was the first one to market such a vehicle and quickly gained reputation. Surely, Tesla is the main leader in the EV sector, but I don't think that this will last forever, due to their strict policies, regarding maintenance, repairs, salvage vehicles and so on.

[mojun7982]

Tesla will be making its money from crypto trading from now on I believe. Buy low, sell high. Works for everybody. :d Why make cars when you can make a lot more money from trading crypto? It doesn't make any sense. I think It is time for Elon to close down TSLA and become a full time crypto-trader. Manufacturing stuff is so last decade. Trading crypto is where it is at now.

That would be the icing on the cake as they already make their money from selling ecology certificates and now on top comes crypto trading, but they seriously hardly sell any cars as opposed to other car makers, they are tiny in reality.