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Author Topic: IRS now wants to Hack Hardware Wallets  (Read 518 times)
dkbit98 (OP)
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May 01, 2021, 09:53:10 AM
Merited by LoyceV (6), Welsh (6), Foxpup (2), vapourminer (2), DdmrDdmr (2), o_e_l_e_o (2), ABCbits (1), Bttzed03 (1)
 #1

Maybe some of you read the news that came out few days ago how Biden is going to hire more people to work for IRS to make better tax enforcement and people will have to pay him $80 billion in extra funding for that.
News came out that IRS recently launched Operation Hidden Treasure for tracing cryptocurrency transactions and detecting people who are avoiding to pay taxes for undeclared cryptocurrency gains.

What is Biden administration going to do with all that money collected from people?
IRS or Internal Revenue Service is now looking for help to hack cryptocurrency hardware wallets (Trezor, Ledger, Coldcard and others) and they released must read 25 pages long PDF document in March 2021 named:
Performance Work Statement Criminal Investigation Development of Exploitation Techniques Against Cryptowallets.
In this document IRS Digital Forensic Unit admits that hardware wallets have become very secure and they need solutions and reusable tool to hack wallets, because they may have them in possession from various cases but can't break them.

Quote
Despite best cyber security efforts, even secure embedded hardware devices may possess vulnerabilities in hardware, software and firmware that allow for the unintentional disclosure of information.
This means that it is very important to have open source hardware wallets because backdoors can much easier be implemented in closed source wallets and ''secure elements'', and we may even see some new or existing hardware wallets secretly being founded by IRS in future.

Trezor wallet posted on Twitter that this is oppression of citizens and attack on individuals rights to privacy, and I would agree with that:
https://twitter.com/Trezor/status/1387863392984182787

Remember to always protect your hardware wallets with passphrases and multisig solutions and learn how to protect from $5 wrench attacks or if done by government it is called Go to Jail card.


source document

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May 01, 2021, 11:10:46 AM
 #2

Tell me they are not after hacking your wallet passphrase?

So in the none open source wallet the backdoor is to pass the wallet seed to a third party? Or what else information they are after. And if they are after such information then how would one differenciate them from a bad hacker?


This means that it is very important to have open source hardware wallets because backdoors can much easier be implemented in closed source wallets and ''secure elements'', and we may even see some new or existing hardware wallets secretly being founded by IRS in future.
Goverment can put pressure and they do everything to get their job done. Maybe some company will sell their ethics for more money but those who are into true bitcoin they will never sell their idology. We need to be more careful when we are chosing our wallet and handling our crypto.

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May 01, 2021, 12:16:36 PM
 #3

Yeah, privacy should be human right, but then again it's hard dilemma for regulators when people are using privacy to escape regulations. You might get away it for a while, but more money you are trying to hide, more difficult that's going to get. And i don't think that there's a real consensus yet how this right to privacy should be handled, because even regulators want privacy, but they also want a possibility to audit. I am looking at combination of RegDeFi and zero knowledge proofs to combat this.

Because no one want lack of privacy in the end. We need to build an opposite system for china's trackable currency. We need to be a good altervative for oppression.

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May 01, 2021, 03:44:28 PM
 #4

So in the none open source wallet the backdoor is to pass the wallet seed to a third party? Or what else information they are after. And if they are after such information then how would one differenciate them from a bad hacker?
Typically, a backdoor would allow unauthorized access. Someone who is not the owner of the wallet and does not own the seed or pass phrase would be able to bypass all security and have access to the contents of the software. In an open source system anyone would be able to see the backdoor which was put and avoid using such applications, this is not the case if it is closed source.

The government is not relenting in their efforts to identify Bitcoin users and transactions, so Bitcoin users should not compromise on safety and privacy.

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May 01, 2021, 06:34:10 PM
 #5

Yeah good luck cracking my seed, suckers. More evidence that the gov are getting envious & desperate.

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May 01, 2021, 06:46:30 PM
 #6

Biden should concentrate on building a quantum computer then only its possible to hack the wallets. Tongue

Tax evaders should be worried about it but its time for the crypto billionaires to move out of the USA or else they have to pay 70% of their asset value for tax and penalty or even they have to pay it completely.









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bL4nkcode
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May 01, 2021, 07:05:45 PM
 #7

Cracking seed phrases? Are they insane, simple word, it's robbery.

Also, the bip39 would be another hindrance to them, it would require them lots of resources just to get their motive. Good luck with that lol.

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May 02, 2021, 07:10:27 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1), dkbit98 (1)
 #8

I wonder how many companies with closed-source HWs would not sacrifice their clients for millions of bucks coming from IRS. In an open-source world, it is indeed very weird to sell a partially closed-source product. But since authorities have easy access to very large fundings, a $10M secret contract with Ledger might actually sound good enough for them to allow backdoors in their HWs, if they haven't done it already.

Worst thing is, they literally have a money printing machine. They could at any given time start working on a computer specifically created to break down all the seeds using latest technologies, without us knowing it. They're so desperate they might want to do that, even though it does mean breaking someone's financial intimacy from anywhere around the world.
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May 02, 2021, 07:36:29 AM
 #9

Tell me they are not after hacking your wallet passphrase?

So in the none open source wallet the backdoor is to pass the wallet seed to a third party? Or what else information they are after. And if they are after such information then how would one differenciate them from a bad hacker?


This means that it is very important to have open source hardware wallets because backdoors can much easier be implemented in closed source wallets and ''secure elements'', and we may even see some new or existing hardware wallets secretly being founded by IRS in future.
Goverment can put pressure and they do everything to get their job done. Maybe some company will sell their ethics for more money but those who are into true bitcoin they will never sell their idology. We need to be more careful when we are chosing our wallet and handling our crypto.


One perfect example which fits here is the coinbase IPO. If the companies or individual buy the coinbase IPO, then the government can get hold of you and demand you for all sort of taxes and income sources etc but if you buy the real bitcoin and hold it in your private wallets, government hands can't reach there. Now its your choice on what you choose.  Smiley

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May 02, 2021, 01:01:05 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (2)
 #10

the irs doesnt need private keys or the seed to achieve their main objective; all the need is a list of addy you control. at that point they have all the info they need as they can then monitor those addys.

they could get those addys from ledger (trezor etc) servers now if they tried which is much easier.

all the more important to run your own full node for your hardware/software wallets and use that for your transactions. then only you know the addys.
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May 02, 2021, 01:38:26 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #11

the irs doesnt need private keys or the seed to achieve their main objective; all the need is a list of addy you control. at that point they have all the info they need as they can then monitor those addys.
Imagine they had an 8yo seed which was used with coin control ever since it's been generated. Having the seed means knowing its entire history and, moreover, you now know all this history is of one single person's finance. It's their wet dream..
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May 02, 2021, 01:54:50 PM
 #12

I heard that Biden is gearing up for a $6 trillion additional spending plan, which is conveniently named as the "American Families Plan". Obviously not all of this amount can be sourced from printing banknotes alone. Some of it needs to come from taxing successful people. The long term capital gains tax for the highest slab is about to touch 60% in cities such as LA and Portland. I don't understand why the successful people still want to remain in the United States. Is it that hard to renounce your citizenship and move to some Caribbean country?
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May 02, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2021, 02:36:06 PM by vapourminer
 #13

the irs doesnt need private keys or the seed to achieve their main objective; all the need is a list of addy you control. at that point they have all the info they need as they can then monitor those addys.
Imagine they had an 8yo seed which was used with coin control ever since it's been generated. Having the seed means knowing its entire history and, moreover, you now know all this history is of one single person's finance. It's their wet dream..

yeah, with the seed thats the icing on the cake. yes the seed give far far more info into the history. who wants transactions you did 10 years ago scrutinized even if you did something totally legal (goat porn is legal right?).

i can build an open source trezor from the published schematics and BOM. and compile the code. so hard to hide a backdoor there at least.



I heard that Biden is gearing up for a $6 trillion additional spending plan, which is conveniently named as the "American Families Plan". Obviously not all of this amount can be sourced from printing banknotes alone. Some of it needs to come from taxing successful people. The long term capital gains tax for the highest slab is about to touch 60% in cities such as LA and Portland. I don't understand why the successful people still want to remain in the United States. Is it that hard to renounce your citizenship and move to some Caribbean country?

to do that you 1st have to pay a one time "exit tax" on basically your entire net worth. that may or not be worth it to some.

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May 02, 2021, 05:36:19 PM
 #14

I wonder how many companies with closed-source HWs would not sacrifice their clients for millions of bucks coming from IRS. In an open-source world, it is indeed very weird to sell a partially closed-source product. But since authorities have easy access to very large fundings, a $10M secret contract with Ledger might actually sound good enough for them to allow backdoors in their HWs, if they haven't done it already.

It is enough for them to have just one dirty worker in this hardware wallet factory who will add some hidden backdoor and nobody will ever know that something is wrong.
Secure element will not help you in this case, and NDA will prevent them from saying anything about that in public, so they don't need to pay millions of dollars at all.

the irs doesnt need private keys or the seed to achieve their main objective; all the need is a list of addy you control. at that point they have all the info they need as they can then monitor those addys.

Oh but they do need your private keys and passphrases to access your funds and confiscate them whenever they want, because they probably have a bunch of hardware wallets full of treasure just collecting dust in their warehouses.


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May 10, 2021, 06:27:29 PM
 #15

It's kinda ironic: they're so stuck in their ways trying to control people and money, they don't realize that's why crypto was created in the first place.

This means that it is very important to have open source hardware wallets because backdoors can much easier be implemented in closed source wallets and ''secure elements'', and we may even see some new or existing hardware wallets secretly being founded by IRS in future.
Maybe Ledger can also leak send them all data they have on their customers. O wait Tongue

Don't they have the same "problem" with most software wallet and other encryption? As far as I know they don't have a backdoor to BIP38, if they eventually manage to enforce backdoors into hardware wallets, we'll just go back to using paper.

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Remember to always protect your hardware wallets with passphrases
Unless they store that too, but since you can use as many different passwords as you want, that must have a limitation.

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May 10, 2021, 07:41:44 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (2)
 #16

Don't they have the same "problem" with most software wallet and other encryption? As far as I know they don't have a backdoor to BIP38, if they eventually manage to enforce backdoors into hardware wallets, we'll just go back to using paper.
Yeah, Signal is bad because it allows criminals to communicate without them knowing. Bitcoin is bad because criminals can have transactions and mix their coins without the IRS finding the real source of coins. Cash is bad because it pretty much removes the trace of money... dumb phones are bad because Google can't do targeted advertisements anymore.. 3G and 2G are bad because they're the only ones still making dumb phones a thing..

Tl;dr: anything they can't look into is bad. Your safety is provided by the government who really cares about you. I mean, they really do. So much, they'd look into anything that you do just so they make sure nothing bad ever happens to you. Roll Eyes

Lesson of the day: when you give up your freedom for safety, you lose both
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May 10, 2021, 07:57:03 PM
 #17

Is this hacking of wallet also connected to that of hotbit? Hotbit also complained on that in there website on attempt to hack them the past one week ago but that they didn't succeed. They shut down site for a week but have now reopened.

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May 10, 2021, 08:41:53 PM
 #18

Yeah, privacy should be human right, but then again it's hard dilemma for regulators when people are using privacy to escape regulations. You might get away it for a while, but more money you are trying to hide, more difficult that's going to get. And i don't think that there's a real consensus yet how this right to privacy should be handled, because even regulators want privacy, but they also want a possibility to audit. I am looking at combination of RegDeFi and zero knowledge proofs to combat this.

Because no one want lack of privacy in the end. We need to build an opposite system for china's trackable currency. We need to be a good altervative for oppression.

They would do so anyway and it is not the average guys with a little investment who does all the harm. Read the papers written by Gabriel Zucman on tax evasion with highly sophisticated structures using tax havens. That is where the money is and not in the cryptocurrency wallets of the average Joe.

It is sad to read this but they will make it happen and indeed a backdoor in hardware wallets being developed b the IRS themselves is a true threat. If you work at the IRS and you know how to get access to a specific type of wallet, what will keep you from abusing that knowledge when the opportunity coms up? That's a real issue

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May 10, 2021, 08:46:00 PM
 #19

This is how you spot a country in trouble. A country that is promising more than it can deliver and looking for ways to make additional money at people's expense.

They're crazy if they think they can trace bitcoin when people can trade their coins for cash at any moment. Hacking hardware wallets, sure. Smiley

Biden is being laughed at by other countries when he can't find stuff, gets confused in public, forgets what he was talking about, apologizes to people. He's not a strong leader, not a healthy one too and Americans will be lucky if he lives to see the end of his presidency.
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May 11, 2021, 10:19:05 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #20

Unless they store that too, but since you can use as many different passwords as you want, that must have a limitation.
Ledger is stupid enough and they are storing passphrase on their device combining it with PIN code, but Trezor is not storing passphrase anywhere and you can verify that because they are fully open source.

Lesson of the day: when you give up your freedom for safety, you lose both
They first take away all your freedom and lock you, than they offer you solution to make you free in future if you accept some new restrictions... sounds familiar?
Good thing is there are more and more people who are waking up and working for freedom and not against it.

It is sad to read this but they will make it happen and indeed a backdoor in hardware wallets being developed b the IRS themselves is a true threat. If you work at the IRS and you know how to get access to a specific type of wallet, what will keep you from abusing that knowledge when the opportunity coms up? That's a real issue
They don't even need to have access to hardware wallet factory and workers, and all they need is backdoor in closed source secure element chips like they are doing with smartphones and NDA would protect everyone.
That is why we need to have open source hardware wallets with open source secure elements to reduce risk as much as possible.

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