Tesla and market manipulation crime

[seoincorporation]

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

[Little Mouse]

I don't think this can be considered as pump and dumo fraud. Tesla has bought bitcoin long ago, possibly around $30k per BTC. They didn’t sold all of their holding even. According to the article you shared, "if someone pump the price intentionally to increase the liquidity so that they can sell their holding, can be considered as fraud."
So, I think, tesla has no chance here to get punished.
On a side note, I think Elon Musk is having such fraud activity with Dogecoin if he is selling his DOGE.

[stompix]

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation

Could be considered by some, but it won't were it matters.
What they did was just what every other investor has done, buy then publish the reports, remember that what people consider the pump was the SEC filling which is an official required statement,  plus nobody forces a company to publish in advance what they are going to sell or buy if that would be a law we would see some really weird trading going on.

I don't understand why people are so angry at Tesla right now because they made a profit using bitcoin? Why are 99% in Bitcoin, to help people when the rapture comes, to cure cancer to end poverty, or to make money? They did what almost all of us are doing tweet every day how BTC is great then at one point sell in profit, every single person that has posted how great Bitcoin is in the last 10 years and has sold at least 1 mbt at a profit should be hanged by this reasoning.

On a side note, I think Elon Musk is having such fraud activity with Dogecoin if he is selling his DOGE.

So should every single r/dogecoin poster that sells even one coin, right?

[ninkdwi]

Regardless of what Tesla did to market manipulation, the fact is that we traders have had a positive impact on Bitcoin rise this year. indeed this will look unnatural when the market suddenly becomes a boomerang which causes the company to become interested in competing to buy Bitcoin. So I feel the balance between the negative and the positive side of what is going on.

[Poker Player]

I agree with the previous comments that accusing Tesla of market manipulation has little traction. Many other companies have done it and are going to do it: first they buy and then, after a while, they report their acquisitions. There is no crime anywhere.

[BChydro]

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

It is an open market and no one forced anyone to invest in the market and i cannot understand what kind of crime took place if you are investing in a market and then booking your profit. If they are taking advantage of a situation before the event taking place and then placing huge amounts can be considered as manipulation. Here in this situation they only played by the books, they never announced before hand that they are going to invest in Bitcoin nor did they inform that they are going to book profit beforehand.

[Sterbens]

Is it wrong if Bitcoin shows that even Tesla's classmates can be interested in entering the crypto industry with great enthusiasm?
then where do we see the role of the government in full support of Bitcoin? the company always tries to follow the desires of consumers, with that they become an unstoppable part of owning Bitcoin.
I know this looks very clear of market manipulation, but what about the state of Bitcoin which is pushing it every year to become more and more expensive? Tesla is only the smallest part of Bitcoin's growth. because the rest lies with all of you who are trying to become true holders of Bitcoin without being under the auspices of the institution.

[Oceat]

Yeah, market manipulation is a crime but what is the difference of getting some profit of your investment? Is it really bad to make some profit out of your whole investment? I don't think so. What Tesla did is just right but since they did take a total of 10% to their investment then, that would actually make a huge impact on the price. And I don't see something wrong about that because it's their rights to make the trade.

And why these people are angry in Tesla when they did nothing wrong, they just simply make a profit.

[Yogee]

It would be interesting if someone would actually file a case against Tesla and Elon for buying and selling BTC which is currently an unregulated market unlike stocks. Those who spread FUD against BTC and later found out to have bought for a cheaper price should be accused of market manipulation as well hehe.

[Alanaz]

if from my point of view they are more to take some advantage only because with the momentum at that time when bitcoin in new ath only natural if they take advantage of the existing momentum.
it's only taken 10 percent of the total and for me it's not included in the crime because they are also even though big companies are more profit -oriented when there is momentum. just like us

[fiulpro]

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

They won't be charged for it!
Even if they would be charged they would be asked to pay a little and that's like a drop in the ocean for them.
Elon Musk used his Twitter many times to fluctuate the price and it's not just for bitcoins but for many other ATH also. He exited the market when the price was fluctuating and who knows if he caused it?
A slight problem with having a decentralized network is the lack of a body to take these concerns into account and to organize themselves and take this matter to court. But that does not prevent several small crypto positive organizations to look into this matter and to address it over the internet, which I believe would give people more information about how such big companies are using the investors and the cryptos or shares or any investments alike. This needs to be stopped ! But how is the question. !

[Little Mouse]

So should every single r/dogecoin poster that sells even one coin, right?

If they are somehow influencing someone to trick this pump and dump, I think they are also subjected to be fraud. But, r/dogecoin (never visited to be honest) can't be identified and they can never be charged of fraud.
If I'm correct, there was some discussion on the GME stock when it skyrockted from $50 to $300+ overnight.

[Stedsm]

Selling their coins was their right TBH no matter what market manipulation we're talking about, because if someone bought something and released it publicly, doesn't mean he asked anyone to invest and people have their own brain each to DYOR and decide whether to get into Bitcoin or not. It's not a pump and dump, but yeah the impact of Elon's tweets moved BTC so gradually that the volume that we saw while the sellers were selling was good enough because it was weekend and we usually understand that liquidity is less in crypto during weekends, but the bull power! My Gosh? Even if it was a dump by Elon Musk's tweet or himself, the riders rode the dip hard and bought everything they could in FOMO that the move upwards was even better than it was during the crash.

[bL4nkcode]

So what you mean is, once a company buy or invest stocks/commodities/crypto/company, they should not sell it for the own good of their company? Also, as a company they should be silent when they sell and announce to PR etc when they buy? That doesn't make sense.

I never heard anyone here make a thread about market manipulation when tesla bought bitcoin though tell me if there is.

[Saint-loup]

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

According to your link from the FBI this criminal offense only applies to securities, then prosecuting Tesla would imply that Bitcoin is an asset belonging to the securities asset class. But AFAIK Bitcoin didn't pass the Howey test.

"Market manipulation fraud—commonly referred to as a “pump and dump”—creates artificial buying pressure for a targeted security, generally a low-trading volume issuer in the over-the-counter securities market largely controlled by the fraud perpetrators."

[hatshepsut93]

Buying low and selling high is not market manipulation. Market manipulation is when you single-handedly move the entire market. This isn't the case here, Bitcoin was rising before Musk's tweets, and it would have risen without them too. And the amount disclosed by Tesla is not enough to be responsible behind this entire bull run. Also, you can't say that Tesla or Musk were trying hard to promote Bitcoin or make some false claims to investors about it.

[DoublerHunter]

~snip~
As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

^ I don't think they are subjected to this, they do not involve such pump and dump activity that can make market manipulation.
I don't understand why people blaming others when they have failed of what they invested, because actually, they don't know of what they invested for, as they saw Tesla company was a successful company and what they did, also others do. Nevertheless, in my own opinion, this doesn't have to make sense as we know Tesla company is just a big investor, not a manipulator.

[hugeblack]

Is there any reference telling that Tesla has sold 10% of the overalls because and according to the Tweet of MUSK they have not sold any of them BTC.
Generally, even if they sell, btc price is high and if you have purchased since the date of the announcement is still gaining gains and if you have bought from the top $ 64,000, you can not sell and leave the market.

If Bitcoin changing because of news about Tesla, they you should sold all your bitcoins

[Maslate]

First of all, bitcoin is not illegal, and therefore anyone has the right to invest in it given they understand the risk.
They too the risk for investing in crypto, and that's alright, there's no crime on that.

For most of us, maybe we believe that Elon is manipulating the market, though indirectly by using his influence, that's it, that's normal in crypto space, besides he did not promise anything, he just open to the public what he did and the public followed him.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

Since I started my crypto journey, there have been calls of individuals or what we call whales during market manipulation, but we haven't seen anyone persecuted against this fraudulent practice.

So for me, yeah they could have been manipulating, but can anyone do about it? Go file cases against Tesla or Elon Musk? Maybe what they did doesn't sit with some, but just like every other else, they are here to make profits.