Enjoy comunism: Venezuela raises monthly minimum wage to $2.40

[Vishnu.Reang]

While building a country only on natural resources is risky, there is nothing wrong with. Look at the middle east, all their wealth is coming from oil and exporting it. The difference here is the government, in the middle east there are mostly monarchs who make sure that they become rich first, but since they get so much money they also invest it back into their own country. Building hotels and trying to attract tourists a nice source of income as well. So natural resource can be the first step to a wealthy nation, but it needs a lot of investment in other areas to become competitive.

You can never compare middle east with Venezuela. In Saudi Arabia and the other Arab nations, the cost of producing crude oil can be as low as $2 per barrel. But in Venezuela, most of the crude is stuck in reserves that are difficult to exploit and it costs around $40-$50 per barrel to extract crude oil. Saudi Arabia can still spend billions of USD in luxuries, because they are still having surplus cash in hand. But that is not the case with Venezuela, as they don't have much revenue left after counting the production cost.

[doomloop]

If a nation really wants to help the poor so much, they have to tax the rich higher, and poor lower, that would be enough, more than enough. Think about a person with minimum wage in almost any nation, and they do not pay any taxes at all in anything, wouldn't that make them a lot better? In that case the power of the money stays the same, those people spend that money and basically pours that money into the economy helping the whole nation, and the country is still quite strong.

Well, what if all those people not paying taxes mean bad for the government treasury? Just make sure to charge higher taxes for super wealthy, people who make 10+ million dollars a year, and if any of them try to take their money somewhere else, make sure you charge them a HUGE fine when they bring it back, that way if they want out, kick them out, they can't come in without proper apology amount paid.

[stompix]

I am sure that Venezuela will be able to overcome this crisis day by day. they are starting to rise from their downturn, their leaders already know how to deal with the risks of the economic crisis that befell Venezuela.

It's that you Graham?

They are overcoming this for 8 years and they somehow still manage to be 20 feets under..
Leaders..oh my god, leaders? And not only that, leaders? Are we talking about the taxi driver turned president?
The one telling people to grow rabbits on their balconies to overcome national hunger?

I am a socialist.

Sorry for you! There are remedies although, you could try getting rid of it

I will never understand why people who live in capitalist societies do not consider that they are in big trouble, I mean I live in a capitalist nation and it looks like much worse than Venezuela.

Because we have food? Or a job? And access to healthcare? And we're not shot and beaten up for telling jokes about el president?
As for being worse than Venezuela, I'm just going to say one thing, cut the bullshit!

US sanctions certainly do have an effect.

These evil Americans, how could they sanction this country, such greedy level capitalist.
Funny how despite all those soc called sanctions, PDSV was able to buy Citgo, and operate refineries and gas stations in the US while every Us company in Venezuela had all their properties nationalized and has been kicked out.
Despite all the bad things Venezuela has suffered from the US they seem to be so keen on selling oil and doing business in the US, I wonder why?
Maybe because that's another trait of socialism, propaganda against everyone when actually there is nobody harming you other than your stupidity?

In the '70s, when oil prices were high, the capitalist-run country was thriving.

Caldera was a capitalist? Seriously? Seriousllllllllyyyy? Who the fuck nationalized the petroleum industry in Venezuela in the '70? The Martians?
Talking about the disease, this is also a socialism disease, rewriting history!

[Hydrogen]

Venezuela's economy transitioned from being one of the wealthiest and richest economies in south america.

To eventually becoming one of the poorest in south america.

Many of the same policies which led venezuela to poverty are being proposed and endorsed at the highest levels in the USA.

Perhaps in venezuela's current state of affairs we might glimpse america's future.

[Darker45]

How do you define socialism, then? Does that automatically follow that since a country is providing free healthcare, education, and other social services to its people it is already a socialist country? How about the fact that capitalism and democracy is actually very much vibrant in the European countries that you've mentioned like France and Norway? Or is it that both capitalism and socialism could exist side by side in a government?

The essence of socialism is very simple - steal the money from the successful people and distribute a part of it among the poor. Since the poor have a greater voting power, the political party which promises to do this will be elected to power very comfortably. Now the problem with Socialism is that, eventually they run out of money to steal from. Successful people will either migrate to other countries (similar to what happened in Cuba), or they will lose their money and become poor themselves.

That's one rough interpretation which, just like the rest of the other interpretations of socialism, is highly debatable. Taxation, for example, has some socialist underpinnings. It could also be interpreted the way you interpret socialism even if it is implemented in a highly capitalist society. For others taking somewhat extreme positions, they would also consider taxation as a kind of stealing. And taxation is applied everywhere.

The Biden administration's American Families Plan, for example, is seeking to impose heavier taxes on the wealthy. Those rich people who are earning more than a million USD a year, for instance, might see their capital gains tax rising to almost double the rate.

Would you, therefore, consider the USA as a socialist country more than a capitalist one?

[Sithara007]

That's one rough interpretation which, just like the rest of the other interpretations of socialism, is highly debatable. Taxation, for example, has some socialist underpinnings. It could also be interpreted the way you interpret socialism even if it is implemented in a highly capitalist society. For others taking somewhat extreme positions, they would also consider taxation as a kind of stealing. And taxation is applied everywhere.

The Biden administration's American Families Plan, for example, is seeking to impose heavier taxes on the wealthy. Those rich people who are earning more than a million USD a year, for instance, might see their capital gains tax rising to almost double the rate.

Would you, therefore, consider the USA as a socialist country more than a capitalist one?

USA is considered as one of the best examples of capitalist economies. They became the largest economy in the world, solely because of the capitalist system. Back in the 20th century, the USSR had more natural resources when compared to the USA, but their economy failed because they followed the socialist system. But the trend nowadays is to move towards a more populist system of governance. It requires more and more government handouts and rewarding the unproductive population. The funds required for this obviously need to come from the taxes. As per the American Families Plan, the tax rate on capital gains may increase to more than 50% for certain states such as Oregon, California and New York. If that is the case, then why the rich should invest in capital assets? They will just keep their money in the liquid form rather than taking the risk.

[cabron]

Venezuela paid a price for insisting on what they want to happen. Increasing the minimum wage is pretty fair for what is going on since the prices of commodities are also going up.

Isn't this what is going on in US as well?  Biden announced to raise $15/hour for American employees, this is what is going anywhere in the world. The resources is just not enough anymore.

[Poker Player]

The fundamental problem is oil. The huge abundance of oil in Venezuela is both its blessing and its curse. If a country has one overwhelming source of wealth, then naturally it focuses on that to the exclusion of everything else. The endemic poverty in Venezuela is I believe a direct consequence of its oil wealth. Its over-reliance on oil is an example of the economic phenomenon known as the 'Dutch Disease'....
...But beneath everything, oil is the cause.

Here I disagree with you. It is not the oil, it was the Chavista policy of practically basing the economy only on oil when the price was high in order to carry out populist policies by showering the people with money. The saying: feast today, famine tomorrow applies better than ever here. You talk about Dutch disease but Norway as I mentioned before managed its oil and gas discoveries very well.

I do believe that in general Chavez was well-intentioned, but he didn't manage Venezuela in a sustainable way.

I don't know if he had good intentions or not. Like many communist leaders, I don't know how they could have gone from trying to protect the poor, for at least that was the initial discourse, to mass murder of the poor, either directly by mass murder like Stalin, Pol Pot and others or indirectly by starvation.

Caring about the poor implies empathy but killing them is for psychopaths, so I do not know if they were already psychopaths and the initial discourse was an excuse to gain power, or they were someone who really cared about the poor and once they gained power they lost touch with reality and to stay in power and their political project became more important than the lives of the people.

US sanctions certainly do have an effect.

These evil Americans, how could they sanction this country, such greedy level capitalist.
Funny how despite all those soc called sanctions, PDSV was able to buy Citgo, and operate refineries and gas stations in the US while every Us company in Venezuela had all their properties nationalized and has been kicked out.
Despite all the bad things Venezuela has suffered from the US they seem to be so keen on selling oil and doing business in the US, I wonder why?
Maybe because that's another trait of socialism, propaganda against everyone when actually there is nobody harming you other than your stupidity?

In the '70s, when oil prices were high, the capitalist-run country was thriving.

Caldera was a capitalist? Seriously? Seriousllllllllyyyy? Who the fuck nationalized the petroleum industry in Venezuela in the '70? The Martians?
Talking about the disease, this is also a socialism disease, rewriting history!

Very interesting, txs.

[Ultegra134]

It's really sad to see Venezuela in such a state, a country with so many reserves in natural resources and minerals, such as gold, oil etc. This is the result of years of economic mismanagement and corruption, leading to such poor living conditions, in a country that has so much potential. Most Venezuelans are actually using USD for their everyday needs, since Venezuelan Bolivars are way too inconvenient to use, due to the high inflation, you'll have to be carrying bags of Bolivars just to spend $2. A similar example of a corrupt and mismanaged economy was Zimbabwe.

[zanezane]

Venezuela paid a price for insisting on what they want to happen. Increasing the minimum wage is pretty fair for what is going on since the prices of commodities are also going up.

Isn't this what is going on in US as well?  Biden announced to raise $15/hour for American employees, this is what is going anywhere in the world. The resources is just not enough anymore.

This wage raise should have happened a long time ago, the people that are in power just got lobbied to not raise those wages because the companies don't want to have workers have more cut on the profits of the company that they are working for. This is not communism, this is human decency in action.

[bitterguy28]

How hard will Venezuelan people need to experience before kicking Maduro in position ? i felt sad seeing venezuela suffering from this when they use to be a great country .

I thought that Asian and african country has this lowest rates but Now venezuela is even worst.

[Poker Player]

Venezuela paid a price for insisting on what they want to happen. Increasing the minimum wage is pretty fair for what is going on since the prices of commodities are also going up.

Isn't this what is going on in US as well?  Biden announced to raise $15/hour for American employees, this is what is going anywhere in the world. The resources is just not enough anymore.

This wage raise should have happened a long time ago, the people that are in power just got lobbied to not raise those wages because the companies don't want to have workers have more cut on the profits of the company that they are working for. This is not communism, this is human decency in action.

I don't know if you have noticed that purchasing power has gone down at the same time that Maduro has raised the minimum wage. There are no lobbies left in the country to pressure Maduro. What you call decency is being poorer and poorer and going hungrier and hungrier.

Interested to know what those amount mentioned can purchase in the country. Can it take care of their basic needs?

If you read. If you had at least read the OP, you wouldn't ask such things:

President Nicolas Maduro has raised minimum wage. Again:

Venezuela raises minimum wage in fourth year of hyperinflation


The new base income of $2.40 plus the food bonus now represents $3.50, with which Venezuelans can buy a kilogram of cheese and a liter of milk."

[zanezane]

~

I don't know if you have noticed that purchasing power has gone down at the same time that Maduro has raised the minimum wage. There are no lobbies left in the country to pressure Maduro. What you call decency is being poorer and poorer and going hungrier and hungrier.

That's why I said that this thing should happen a long time because right now it will be problematic since they are experiencing a hyperinflation. I know that raising wages causes inflation but in a healthy inflation, it is a good thing.

[DrBeer]

An absolutely expected situation. It is a pity for people, but they themselves are the culprits of what has developed in the country now. It is foolish to build an economy on oil alone, it is foolish to elect a dim-witted populist president. I hope the population will understand that it is necessary to vote not for promises, but for logical goals. I hope that politicians will also understand that it is impossible to build an economy on oil alone. And all together will be able to "restart" the country. But if you continue to believe in the communist-socialist delirium, then you should not expect a normal life.

While building a country only on natural resources is risky, there is nothing wrong with. Look at the middle east, all their wealth is coming from oil and exporting it. The difference here is the government, in the middle east there are mostly monarchs who make sure that they become rich first, but since they get so much money they also invest it back into their own country. Building hotels and trying to attract tourists a nice source of income as well. So natural resource can be the first step to a wealthy nation, but it needs a lot of investment in other areas to become competitive.

Let's look at the history of countries where resources form the country's budget to one degree or another. Middle East, Saudi Arabia (2nd place in the world for oil reserves). An interesting example!
The oil industry is the backbone of Saudi Arabia's economy (40% of GDP, 75% of revenues and 90% of exports).
The development of the extractive industry starts around the 30s of the last century, OREK is created, around 60-70s the country begins to receive tangible income from the sale of oil. It seems completely. a resource-based economy, BUT huge money is invested from oil revenues in investment funds, the construction business, and the chemical industry.
Saudi Arabia invests in major international projects, in the purchase of real estate and land abroad.
The question is - what prevented Venezuela from acting wisely and diversifying its revenue side?
Of the positive examples, I can also give the example of Norway. Of the negative - an example of a Soviet union - a non-competitive economy and the budget's dependence on oil sales led to catastrophic internal processes and the collapse of the USSR ... depending on how it is controlled.

[cheezcarls]

We know the Venezuelan currency collapsed and the crisis is still on. Despite the crisis, it’s way better to increase the minimum wage than none at all. Right here in the Philippines, our minimum wage is 387 Philippine pesos ($8.04). That’s just good for a low wage earner who is single, but way, way, way not enough if you are a bread winner of having a family with kids. Just saying.

[Poker Player]

~

I don't know if you have noticed that purchasing power has gone down at the same time that Maduro has raised the minimum wage. There are no lobbies left in the country to pressure Maduro. What you call decency is being poorer and poorer and going hungrier and hungrier.

That's why I said that this thing should happen a long time because right now it will be problematic since they are experiencing a hyperinflation. I know that raising wages causes inflation but in a healthy inflation, it is a good thing.

You're another one who doesn't read. They are in the fourth year of hyperinflation, and in these 4 years the minimum wage has not stopped rising:

...
Venezuela raises minimum wage in fourth year of hyperinflation
...
I've read somewhere that he has raised the minimum wage more than 40 times since he is in power but I can't find the exact source. According to the following source, however, he raised it 21 times between April 2013 and March 2018:

President announces new increase in minimum wage (March 2018)

It was also raised in 2019 and 2020, a simple google search tells you that.

[DrBeer]

An absolutely expected situation. It is a pity for people, but they themselves are the culprits of what has developed in the country now. It is foolish to build an economy on oil alone, it is foolish to elect a dim-witted populist president. I hope the population will understand that it is necessary to vote not for promises, but for logical goals. I hope that politicians will also understand that it is impossible to build an economy on oil alone. And all together will be able to "restart" the country. But if you continue to believe in the communist-socialist delirium, then you should not expect a normal life.

I don't think that you should blame the people of Venezuela. They had two options in 2013 (after the death of Hugo Chávez). The first choice was Nicolás Maduro of the Socialist party and the second choice was Henrique Capriles Radonski (who represented the Primero Justicia party). A lot of people were scared by the religious extremism of Capriles and additionally the death of Chávez created some sort of a sympathy wave in favor of Maduro. The people voted for the least poisonous option, and that turned out to be Maduro. If Capriles was elected, then he would have destroyed what remains of the Venezuelan portion of the Amazon forest (similar to what his friend Bolsonaro did in Brazil) and exterminated the indigenous groups.

And the people of the country - what is it, biomass crazy, needs and desires? Remember a simple axiom - we are responsible for our actions, and for inaction too!
If the people by OWN VOICES brings an idiot to the presidency, then the people are a participant in this negative process, and they share the guilt for what the president did later, but THEY DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO STOP IT! Therefore, their guilt is unambiguous, okay, they fell for promises, but then they did not stop the policy of idiocy and the murder of the economy. The position "we have nothing to do with" is a very bad human quality. It's always easier to pin the blame on someone else without admitting your mistakes.

[Cnut237]

US sanctions certainly do have an effect.

These evil Americans, how could they sanction this country, such greedy level capitalist.
Funny how despite all those soc called sanctions...

If you read my post, I'm saying that Chavez is partly to blame. I'm also saying Maduro is partly to blame. I'm not an apologist for the far-left. But I'm also saying that sanctions have an effect. Surely that's not so controversial? Also I don't have a particular problem with America. America behaves as the powerful have always behaved, throughout history. Britain, France, Spain, etc... back to antiquity.

In the '70s, when oil prices were high, the capitalist-run country was thriving.

Caldera was a capitalist? Seriously? Seriousllllllllyyyy? Who the fuck nationalized the petroleum industry in Venezuela in the '70? The Martians?
Talking about the disease, this is also a socialism disease, rewriting history!

COPEI is certainly not left-wing, neither was Caldera. And Venezuelan oil was nationalised not by Caldera, but by Perez, his successor. Perez was probably centre-left? Certainly not a communist. And in any case, nationalisation of a country's primary industry is by no means incompatible with a capitalist framework. Just as a person who buys house insurance (which is obviously a form of socialised risk) shouldn't be hunted down by a McCarthyist mob and extradited to Russia.

The thread title is 'Enjoy communism'. The current situation in Venezuela is not a result of communism.
It is in large part a result of Maduro, and also of Chavez, yes... but not communism. It is also due in part to oil, sanctions, the US, previous administrations, etc. I don't see why this should be such an outrageous and controversial idea.

I should also point out, before someone alleges something to the contrary, that I personally am not a fan of communism. History demonstrates quite clearly that it is prone to corruption, and that it is unworkable. But I take issue with the popular belief that anything to the left of the hard-right libertarian laissez-faire ideal should be decried as communist.

[LUCKMCFLY]

This salary increase no longer seems strange to me, sincerely there is nothing worse that can happen, although the salary increase for the rulers represents the best way out, it is a total economic fallacy what they continue to do, this is not what people anymore take into account, Venezuelans have an alternate economy, everything is handled in dollars, and everything is much more expensive than in any country, any item, inflation is already immeasurable, people can set the price they want in Bs, which Actually, it is handled in Dollars, when it comes to Bs, absolutely nothing can be bought.

The reality of the country when it began to sink faster than the titanic was having elected Chavez, thanks to him the communist current that they disguise as socialism originated, which has nothing of socialism.

The best thing that Venezuelans do is to continue living their day to day without taking into account the traditional economy, the banks do not even offer credits of any kind, because it is not profitable, neither for the banks nor for those who want to acquire it, if you have bs you must get out of them quickly because in minutes you lose more and more value. For me, the case of Venezuela in particular has no solution, the only solution is for all the rulers to leave, perhaps by changing the model, Venezuela can be reborn, I am truly realistic.

[Poker Player]

But I take issue with the popular belief that anything to the left of the hard-right libertarian laissez-faire ideal should be decried as communist.

That is something that those of us who believe in little intervention and regulations tend to do, exaggerating. I acknowledge that. At the slightest regulation or tax increase we accuse of communism.

Ideally, I believe that there should be some intervention (some free market theorists argue that everything should be private, justice, security forces, etc. everything). I believe that sectors such as health, justice and security forces should be if not offered and controlled exclusively by the government, at least in cohabitation with the private sector, in health for example. Just as the government has to help people who cannot fend for themselves. From there, I understand that the best thing is the minimum of regulations and the minimum of taxes possible, which is a system that has its flaws, but at least it is not as disastrous as extreme interventionism.