Enjoy comunism: Venezuela raises monthly minimum wage to $2.40

[Poker Player]

OK.. no need to write an essay. Let me summarize it - the billionaires in the United States own $4.4 trillion in wealth. The socialists want all that wealth to be seized and redistributed to the "poor" people. If you are living in a socialist utopia, then this is the perfect plan. But think for a moment for how long this $4.4 trillion is going to last. As per your own calculation, there are 40 million poor. Divide this $4.4 trillion by 40 million, and you will get $110,000. Now this may be enough for the poor to love comfortably for 2-3 years. After that, what you will do? Billionaires are gone. So you are going to target the millionaires? The cycle will go on until no rich people are left. Then what? From where you will steal once the rich people are gone?

Of course. We must also think that the US is more capitalist than Venezuela, of course, but it is not the paradigm of free market and absence of regulations.  There are many things I don't like there, and some of them have been mentioned by @dezoel, but communist style redistribution always ends in disaster. As I was saying in another thread:

It is the old idea that in a communist world everything would be wonderful, when the pure reality is that if all the wealth of the world were confiscated and distributed equally, the next day there would be rich and poor again, because some would save and invest and others would spend it all immediately on whores and drugs (to give extreme examples).

The only way to ensure "equality" would be, the day after, to confiscate again those who save and invest to give it to those who have spent it on whores and drugs.

And we would all live happily ever after.

And then, someone who lived in a comunist country added:

I was told that back in primary school: you would be able to get any goods for free. I kept wondering that then why would anybody work at all and how who would produce those goods...
Then the shortages started and they stopped insulting our intelligence with that crap.

[Sithara007]

Of course. We must also think that the US is more capitalist than Venezuela, of course, but it is not the paradigm of free market and absence of regulations.  There are many things I don't like there, and some of them have been mentioned by @dezoel, but communist style redistribution always ends in disaster.

The plus point for United States is that even with the Democrat party, there are factions that are opposed to socialist policies. But nowadays it is the extreme-left, which is dominating the party. Some of the proposals from the current Biden administration reminds me of extreme-left. One example is the proposal to tax capital gains on par with the income tax. At present none of the countries have such high taxes on capital gains, for obvious reasons. Now let's see whether these proposals will get the required support.

[southerngentuk]

Venezuela increased its monthly minimum wage by 289%, or 64 US cents, to $2,4 at the Bank of Venezuela's estimated rates, while the price of a kilogram of meat is $3,75. The government of President Nicolas Maduro has raised the minimum wage twice this year, amid the COVID-19 pandemic, severe economic slowdown and hyperinflation. Although Venezuela relaxed its economic controls two years ago, allowing for increased foreign currency transactions, many workers continue to receive wages in the depreciated local currency. Honestly, I don't know if this is a positive news or not, since it does not mean much for the current lives of indigenous people.

[DrBeer]

Whether the 2018 elections are fair or not is a slightly different question. Although I completely agree with you - elections without choice are nonsense!
I wanted to talk about the so-called civic responsibility and citizenship of Venezuelans. Low turnout is also an indicator that many residents DO NOT care what will happen in the country. This is a mixture of stupidity, cowardice to be responsible, and just a devil-may-care attitude ("let them choose for me"). Well, those who came to the elections ended up "finishing off" the country with their choice. I am leading all this to - you cannot relieve the responsibility of citizens, they make a choice, or do not, or do not allow to do. They bear joint responsibility, they are the accomplices in this process. And Maduro is only a darling of fate, who managed to deceive gullible and / or stupid citizens. This is not only a problem for Venezuela, we had a very similar situation in 2019 ...

What do you want the ordinary citizens to do? Rebel against the government? These things are very easy to say, but extremely difficult to implement in reality. Stalin ruled the USSR for three decades, exterminating 60 million people during that period. Why didn't anyone had the courage to stage a coup and overthrow him? The answer to that question will be applicable to Venezuela as well. In dictatorships, there is hardly anything that the ordinary civilians can do. Blaming them for the dictatorship is illogical.

I believe that a citizen of a country who voted for his candidate has the right to demand that he fulfill his promises, or fix the problems he created! The country's constitution and legislation does not prohibit rallies and demonstrations.
If we talk about dictatorship, what is a dictatorship? This is just a group of people who have the ability to intimidate another part of the population. For example - the president + the government + the security forces. But these are all people, and the siloviki are whose sons, husbands, fathers. There are a lot of mechanisms of influence on them! You remembered well about the USSR. I'll explain here. The USSR arose on the ashes of tsarist Russia, which was essentially destroyed by the revolutionary movement, followed by the "Red Terror" and "power of the proletariat" - that is, the "power" of an embittered, lumpenized, primitive, envious rabble. Terror destroyed in the first 2 decades - tens of millions of its citizens, people were terribly intimidated! Although, as history shows - not everywhere! There were territories that, right up to the mid-1960s, waged an insurrectionary struggle against Bolshevism, the Communist Party, and, in fact, the fascist regime within the USSR. An active struggle was waged in Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine ... Even in the Republic of the RSFSR itself (this is the part that is now Russia), there were quite a few riots and uprisings against the authorities. According to the habit of the Soviet regime, they were always hushed up and classified information. The dictatorship in Ukraine ended with the shameful flight of President Yanukovych to Russia, in Ukraine there is no complex of "worshiping power", therefore there is no fear of it, if necessary, to remove it, even confronting the armed police and security forces. Therefore, dictatorship is in fact an indicator or level of fear of the population of power, or worship of power. The conditions for the dictatorship are created by the "people"

[disconnectme]

This is what you get when central government becomes too powerful with no know-how of how economy works. When you come into a system and you believe that socialism will work instead of Capitalism, Capitialism has its own flaws but it is still the best system we have for now.

[DrBeer]

This is what you get when central government becomes too powerful with no know-how of how economy works. When you come into a system and you believe that socialism will work instead of Capitalism, Capitialism has its own flaws but it is still the best system we have for now.

If you become familiar with the concept of economics, the economic system in a socialist society, you will be surprised. There are no markets, no satisfaction of demand, no competition, nothing. There is a consumption plan where the "elders" decide how many pairs of socks you need and which ones, how much pasta and sugar, as well as toilet paper, medicines and watches! And nobody cares about your taste, desires, plans. This is socialism. But if you get acquainted with the economic model in the communist state, I'm afraid your eyes will twitch and you will be tormented by a couple of days of sleepiness

[dothebeats]

Venezuela really have it rough. That is nowhere near a livable wage anywhere in the world, and at that rate I'd rather commit a crime and be fed by the state rather than be overworked and severely underpaid. No wonder crime rates are not going down as it's literally a hell hole in there with those economic conditions. I'll not be surprised if barter is a more efficient way of trading than using the bolivar. Venezuelans are robbed of the right to live decently, and the government hasn't done enough to change the narrative since the statistics just get worse every year. 

[livingfree]

Hyper inflation, what a very unfortunately situation in Venezuela. I've watched one vlog from a known travel vlogger and had opened to the world how people are surviving there despite the low wages.

This is what you get when central government becomes too powerful with no know-how of how economy works. When you come into a system and you believe that socialism will work instead of Capitalism, Capitialism has its own flaws but it is still the best system we have for now.

And also a government that really became corrupt.

[verita1]

I would like to reply to The Pharmacist.
Venezuelans buy US dollars in order to alleviate inflation. Most Venezuelans do not have the ability to save, their bank accounts will surely be empty as well as mine.
The adoption of crypto in Venezuela has one of its most important representatives as it is.

https://cryptobuyer.io/es/merchants/

But unfortunately its CEO Jorge Farias died as a result of covid19 last month. Probably the development of his project is slower because of his absence or maybe not. How everyone knows how to adopt cryptocurrencies in any of the scenarios is a long journey.

Venezuelans buy and sell cryptocurrencies on P2P Binance, there are also other platforms such as Cryptoway and Cryptobuyer. I have used all these platforms to sell bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to make use of my local currency and meet my daily needs every week.

The adoption of the cryptocurrencies that you can see in the videos has been thanks to the efforts of Cryptobuyer and other personalities but it is a small and important part to continue moving forward.

[Poker Player]

I would like to reply to The Pharmacist.
Venezuelans buy US dollars in order to alleviate inflation. Most Venezuelans do not have the ability to save, their bank accounts will surely be empty as well as mine.
The adoption of crypto in Venezuela has one of its most important representatives as it is.

https://cryptobuyer.io/es/merchants/

But unfortunately its CEO Jorge Farias died as a result of covid19 last month. Probably the development of his project is slower because of his absence or maybe not. How everyone knows how to adopt cryptocurrencies in any of the scenarios is a long journey.

Venezuelans buy and sell cryptocurrencies on P2P Binance, there are also other platforms such as Cryptoway and Cryptobuyer. I have used all these platforms to sell bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to make use of my local currency and meet my daily needs every week.

The adoption of the cryptocurrencies that you can see in the videos has been thanks to the efforts of Cryptobuyer and other personalities but it is a small and important part to continue moving forward.

I think it would have been better if you had quoted him, but I gave you merit anyway. This is what the Pharmacist said:

Yeah well, what do you think has been happening in slow motion in the US and other countries over the past century or more?  Prices rise, wages rise in step (sometimes).  Workers in 1906 could buy a meal at a restaurant for $0.25 but some made about $1/day.  And look at today's prices and wages in the average American city.  Anyway, it's sad to see Venezuela getting hit this hard.  The thing I'm wondering is whether Venezuelans are actually using that shitty currency or are using something more stable (like the USD or some other relatively local currency).  I can't imagine anyone there would want to save money in the form of a currency that's hyperinflating.  They'd either spend it as soon as they get it or trade it for dollars (or crypto even).

Any Venezuelans here who could shed some light as to what the reality is there?  I've asked that before in a couple of other threads about Venezuela, but I don't think I ever got any replies.  Has there been an increase in crypto adoption as has been claimed on a bunch of Youtube videos or is that just BS?

Are you from Venezuela @verita1? You seem to at least know well the country.

[Obito]

Venezuela really have it rough. That is nowhere near a livable wage anywhere in the world, and at that rate I'd rather commit a crime and be fed by the state rather than be overworked and severely underpaid. No wonder crime rates are not going down as it's literally a hell hole in there with those economic conditions. I'll not be surprised if barter is a more efficient way of trading than using the bolivar. Venezuelans are robbed of the right to live decently, and the government hasn't done enough to change the narrative since the statistics just get worse every year. 

They had a really bad planning in their economy and now the people are suffering from this hyperinflation, there are still ways that you can do that doesn't involve crime, you can always find food when you are near a forest, plant some vegetables if the future is still un ertain. And you can also sell your skills, some of the people in Venezuela get by through crafts and stuffs that they can put a price on.

[sana54210]

If you become familiar with the concept of economics, the economic system in a socialist society, you will be surprised. There are no markets, no satisfaction of demand, no competition, nothing. There is a consumption plan where the "elders" decide how many pairs of socks you need and which ones, how much pasta and sugar, as well as toilet paper, medicines and watches! And nobody cares about your taste, desires, plans. This is socialism. But if you get acquainted with the economic model in the communist state, I'm afraid your eyes will twitch and you will be tormented by a couple of days of sleepiness

That is not socialism, that is dictatorship. If one person decides what you will wear and how many socks you will have, how could that be a democracy? Do you really believe that someone else deciding how many socks I could have could ever be democracy? Impossible, hence it is not socialism neither, it could be considered communism instead.

What western nations run by capitalism doesn't tell you that socialist nations like Spain, France, Norway, Finland, Sweden, even UK in some things (and ruthless capitalist in others) all are run by socialistic values, free healthcare, free education, free meals to kids at school, all paid by taxes, those are socialist values, and yet you can still elect a capitalist or a militarist or whatever else you want, because it is democracy, and you can go buy any sock you want, nobody would stop you from doing that.

[verita1]

...

Are you from Venezuela @verita1? You seem to at least know well the country.

Thank you Poker Player for giving me 1 Merit. I wanted to make a quote to The Pharmacist and I couldn't.

I must also thank you for the interest in creating a thread about my country.
In relation to the Venezuelan minimum wage, each year on May 1st it is customary to hear about an increase.
I can only tell you that among families we collaborate to cover the expenses of those who need the most.

A look at how the Venezuelan approaches dollarization can be checked here:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/maduro-seeks-speed-up-digital-payments-venezuela-runs-out-cash-2021-03-15/

[adzino]

Oh wow. At first I thought it was raised to $2.40 per hour and I was a little surprised. But then I noticed it was $2.40 per month. Now that is messed up. And really? They can only buy a cheese and a litter of milk? How are they surviving? Their government really fucked up. They were supposed to be rich. They were once one of the crucial oil producing nation in Latin America. See how corruption can destroy a nation? I have heard now goons and warlords are taking over everything. This is really sad.

[Poker Player]

...

Are you from Venezuela @verita1? You seem to at least know well the country.

Thank you Poker Player for giving me 1 Merit. I wanted to make a quote to The Pharmacist and I couldn't.

I must also thank you for the interest in creating a thread about my country.
In relation to the Venezuelan minimum wage, each year on May 1st it is customary to hear about an increase.
I can only tell you that among families we collaborate to cover the expenses of those who need the most.

A look at how the Venezuelan approaches dollarization can be checked here:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/maduro-seeks-speed-up-digital-payments-venezuela-runs-out-cash-2021-03-15/

Another thing @The Pharmacist was asking was whether there has been an adoption of cryptos in Venezuela. I remember seeing news that said yes, but I would like to hear about your experience. Also, I guess what you earn from the signature campaign will help quite a bit. I have checked the campaign spreadsheet and I see that you will be earning about $20-25 per week, which is not much but I imagine that in Venezuela it is a blessing.

[fullhdpixel]

Jeez, what the f!!! Didn't know that situation in Venezuela was this bad . Damn, I used to think it was just some kind of bad situation that is manageable . So, all these their minimum wage has been at 64 cents? That's really bad. And come to talk about this small $2.40 being worth up to 7 million bolivars, wow . This shows that their currency has crashed seriously if ordinary $2 dollars is worth millions there.

I am just wondering how these people have been surviving with this kind of situation. It's very, very bad and I hope they really find a way to get out of it. How much are they going to be selling foodstuffs and how can people afford it if these foodstuffs are with the same as it's worth in other countries?

[wxa7115]

And the worst part is that they never listen, if a socialist country wants to raise taxes that is one thing, but in Venezuela we saw the government confiscating the assets of big companies, the international community warned the government of Venezuela at the time this was an awful idea as no one will want to make business with them in the future if they kept taking those actions.

They did not listened and now they cannot attract foreign investments, they thought they could get around this with their oil income but when the price collapsed this threw into disarray any semblance of order in the country and now they are going through these adverse times, and unless something changes this will be their reality for decades to come.

As far as I know, they not just confiscated the assets of large corporations, but also did that to some of the rich Venezuelan individuals. Socialism always work using jealousy. Poor people are always jealous of the rich, and want their wealth to be stolen and redistributed. But the first group never attempt to become rich themselves. They give all sorts of excuses for that - lack of education, lack of opportunities.etc. And the political parties make use of this mentality to exploit them. Since the rich are very few in number, they can be looted, harassed and thrown out of the country. But the main issue with socialism is that eventually they will run out of rich people who can be looted. And this is what happened in Venezuela.

I agree, I have always though that political movements like it are based on nothing but jealousy, I understand that we all want better conditions for ourselves and our families but we have to work for them, as long as the rich got there not because they were corrupt but hard work then they deserve to be rich and enjoy their position as much as they want.

Movements that seek to take from others what they rightfully gained not only are nothing more but thieves but it also discourages anyone that could want to work hard as they know their work is going to be stolen from them creating a downward spiral from which it is impossible to escape.

[verita1]

...

Another thing @The Pharmacist was asking was whether there has been an adoption of cryptos in Venezuela. I remember seeing news that said yes, but I would like to hear about your experience. Also, I guess what you earn from the signature campaign will help quite a bit. I have checked the campaign spreadsheet and I see that you will be earning about $20-25 per week, which is not much but I imagine that in Venezuela it is a blessing.

The videos you have seen about the adoption of cryptocurrencies in Venezuela is true. But it is only happening in the main cities of the country and in some commercial businesses.

We have important leaders who are working to grow the crypto community in Venezuela. As an example:

Mariangel
Community manager for Latin America at Binance.
https://twitter.com/justmariangel

Ernesto Contreras
Head of business development Dashpay for Latin America
https://twitter.com/ernestocontrer

To know firsthand how our community grows in Venezuela and Latin America Binance Español is the best place to observe.

https://twitter.com/Binance_Spanish

Another proof is this job offer by Binance in search of Community Manager for Venezuela.

https://jobs.lever.co/binance/60e6c858-b2dc-410f-96f4-d9232933390a

With my income from the Signature campaign I am testing to see if it is possible to save for my 12 and 13 year old nephews. 😊

[Sithara007]

I agree, I have always though that political movements like it are based on nothing but jealousy, I understand that we all want better conditions for ourselves and our families but we have to work for them, as long as the rich got there not because they were corrupt but hard work then they deserve to be rich and enjoy their position as much as they want.

Movements that seek to take from others what they rightfully gained not only are nothing more but thieves but it also discourages anyone that could want to work hard as they know their work is going to be stolen from them creating a downward spiral from which it is impossible to escape.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of the population would prefer a socialist system for temporary benefits. If you ask the 7.5 billion people living in this planet whether they want a wealth redistribution or not, a majority are going to vote in favor of it. Who is going to refuse free money? But the problem is that this can be done only once. All the rich people will be gone, and after this what they will do? When there is no rich person left to rob, the socialists will start stealing from the ordinary people. And this is what happening in Venezuela.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

With my income from the Signature campaign I am testing to see if it is possible to save for my 12 and 13 year old nephews. 😊

Thanks for the input--it does look like crypto is picking up in Venezuela, and it's nice to hear from somebody who lives there.  That's also very nice of you to want to save crypto (or money in general) for your nephews, so good luck.

PokerPlayer, I appreciate the PM alerting me to verita1's post, as I haven't been closely following this thread and wouldn't have noticed it otherwise.  And I can't remember where I heard it, but there was a mention recently of how Venezuelans were trading their fiat for crypto in order to protect themselves from inflation--so I'm assuming that's going on fairly widely.  It's a smart thing to do with any fiat currency that's being devalued faster than you can spend it.