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Author Topic: [TUTORIAL] How to extend seed phrase in electrum wallet  (Read 245 times)
Zilon (OP)
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May 02, 2021, 11:51:46 PM
Last edit: May 03, 2021, 11:29:27 AM by Zilon
Merited by BevNation (2), TimeTeller (1)
 #1

Seed phrase, seed recovery or recovery phrase which is said to be an arrangement of words used to gain access to cryptocurrency wallets. In Bitcoin, seed phrases gives users an avenue to backup their wallets. If one looses access to a certain wallet it can be accessed in any BIP39-compactible wallet to recover funds. We have over 2048 words on the BIP39 word list, this means that a string of 12 words would have 128bits of security. This makes hacking or intruding into your wallet a bit studious.

If an intruder wishes to attack a wallet it is expected of such to carryout 2128 operations to guess a 12 word phrase. It might seem to be a small number, but it is more complex than you think. This seed can also be extended to improve security.

Is seed phrase the same as private key
Quote

Seed phrase is different from private key in that private key can be considered to be a secret number that allows coin to be spent. It creates a key pair that grants access to wallets. While a seed phrase is simply a representation of a random number. It's an ordered sequence of 12 or 24 words, chosen from a list of 2048 words. Using cryptography, your wallet can derive your private key using your seed phrase. And with that private key, your wallet can spend your bitcoin.

Seed phrase extension
Seed extension is the process of adding more words to the existing seed phrase to strengthen the security of a crypto wallet. This is done while creating a new wallet.
Reserved extension seed phrase:
Code:
abandon
ability
able
about
above
absent
absorb
abstract
absurd
abuse
access
accident
account
accuse
achieve
acid
acoustic
acquire
across
act
action
actor
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actual
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add
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address
adjust
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again
age
agent
agree
ahead
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air
airport
aisle
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album
alcohol
alert
alien
all
alley
allow
almost
alone
alpha
already
also
alter
always
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amazing
among
amount
amused
analyst
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another
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apple
approve
april
arch
arctic
area
arena
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army
around
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asthma
athlete
atom
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august
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avoid
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aware
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awesome
awful
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birth
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bless
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https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt

    Why should you extend a seed
    • Wallet security:
      The longer the phrase the more secure your wallet would be. Preventing Intruders from guessing the phrase.
    • plausible deniability:
      It completely denies knowledge of any particular attempt to guess the phrase words and claims such doesn't exist
    • Total privacy: This phrase aren't saved on electrum server and is only unique to you alone.


    How to set up seed extension

    step 1: from www.electrum.org download the app to your preferred device.



    Step 2: click on next to which would take you to where you would select the wallet type you prefer.



    Step 3: from the menu select your preferred wallet type.



    Step 4: proceed to create your own personal new seed from the BIP39 word list.



    Step 5: write down your seed phrase in a save document, from the seed phrase menu click on the settings icon



    Step 6: click on the box provided to add the seed phrase selected from the list of reserved words




    Step 7: enter the custom words you wish to extend your seed phrase with.



    Disclaimer:
    The images provided is for illustration purpose only and does not belong to anyone.


    Source
    https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki



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    May 03, 2021, 02:58:58 AM
     #2

    If an intruder wishes to attack a wallet it is expected of such to carryout 2128 operations to guess a 12 word phrase.
    It is far more difficult than that and not feasible for a hacker to correctly guess the entire seed phrase of an address, even without an extra passphrase as it's more complex than simply guessing any random 12 words.

    Also, a seed phrase can be used for plausible deniability; to create an address which is different from the original one, this can be used to hide balances should the holder find themselves in any trouble.

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    May 03, 2021, 03:29:05 AM
    Merited by Abdussamad (2), hugeblack (2)
     #3

    Seed phrase extension
    Seed extension is the process of adding more words to the existing seed phrase to strengthen the security of a crypto wallet. This is done while creating a new wallet.
    Reserved extension seed phrase:
    Code:
    -BIP39 seed wordlist-
    Take note that the extension doesn't necessarily have to be a word from BIP39 wordlist.
    It can be any word, phrase or even symbols, the "Seed Phrase Extension" is actually a passphrase a.k.a. "BIP39 Passphrase".

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    May 03, 2021, 03:37:54 AM
     #4

    Hackers steal your seed when your store it online or in devices that you use to connect to Internet. Your devices need to be clean and seed backup need to be in encrypted files.

    If you secure your devices well and don't connect it to the Internet more than you need, the risks of hacks will be less.

    Many people use Notepad to store their private keys, seeds or passwords and it is too bad. Unencrypted and vulnerable to hacks.

    Worthy to note.

    Wallet with extended phrase is a different wallet than the one without extended phrase. If your create a wallet with extended phrase, and store your Bitcoin in that one, you must back up wallet seed (default) and extended one. Secure them and make sure you don't make typos for back ups.

    If anything is inaccurate, you will get troubles when recover that wallet. At worst, you will lose your Bitcoin.

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    pooya87
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    May 03, 2021, 06:16:17 AM
     #5

    We have over 2048 words on the BIP39 word list,
    We have multiple word lists each in a different language but in each word list there is exactly 2048 words (not over it).

    Quote
    this means that a string of 12 words would have 128bits of security.
    To be clear this is a combination of the number of words and the length of the word list but generally speaking the security of the mnemonic comes from the size of the entropy. A 128 bit entropy providing 128 bits of entropy could be encoded using a bigger list to have smaller number of words or a smaller list and have larger number of words but the security remains the same.

    Quote
    If an intruder wishes to attack a wallet it is expected of such to carryout 2128 operations to guess a 12 word phrase.
    It is 2128 not 2128 and it is not the number of operations, it is the number of possible values for a 128 bit entropy.
    When copying text from elsewhere you should take note of the formatting!

    Quote
    It might seem to be a small number, but it is more complex than you think. This seed can also be extended to improve security.
    Extension most of the times does not provide additional security because for one users don't use a truly random input as their extension word and also the algorithm used to derive the keys is not strong enough.

    Quote
    Seed phrase extension
    Seed extension is the process of adding more words to the existing seed phrase to strengthen the security of a crypto wallet.
    Not exactly correct. I alraedy explained why it is not providing security, also it is not "adding more words" it is adding an arbitrary string which can be words or literary anything else like a bunch of emojis or a random password like "jz7P*s&{$Ys5+GoJoA".

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    o_e_l_e_o
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    May 03, 2021, 08:21:18 AM
     #6

    Further corrections to the ones already given above:

    • Wallet security:
      The longer the phrase the more secure your wallet would be. Preventing Intruders from guessing the phrase.
    If you want more security for your seed phrase than 12 words, then the correct course of action is to generate a 24 word seed phrase, not to add an additional passphrase. Further, bitcoin private keys have 128 bits of security, so anything beyond a 12 word seed phrase doesn't add very much when considering brute force attacks.

    • plausible deniability:
      It completely denies knowledge of any particular attempt to guess the phrase words and claims such doesn't exist
    Plausible deniability is the main reason to use passphrases, but just using one is not enough to give you plausible deniability. You have to keep the existence of the passphrase protected wallet secret, which includes ensuring there is no blockchain evidence linking it to your other wallets.

    • Total privacy: This phrases aren't saved on electrum server and is only I have to you alone.
    Your seed phrase isn't saved on Electrum servers either, and should also not be known by anyone other than you.
    Zilon (OP)
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    May 03, 2021, 11:32:08 AM
     #7

      Further corrections to the ones already given above:


      • Total privacy: This phrases aren't saved on electrum server and is only I have to you alone.
      [/s]
      Your seed phrase isn't saved on Electrum servers either, and should also not be known by anyone other than you.
      Correction taken
      li]Total privacy: This phrase aren't saved on electrum server and is only unique to you alone.[/li]
      [/list]
      BlackHatCoiner
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      May 06, 2021, 12:46:01 PM
       #8

      Total privacy: This phrase aren't saved on electrum server and is only unique to you alone.

      I find this part of the post a bit misleading. What does it have to do with privacy? The addresses you'll derive from that seed will be known from the server(s) you're connected to. The seed phrase doesn't provide privacy, it *just* recovers your wallet. Going non-custodially surely provides better privacy in contrast with an online wallet. But, keeping yourself private depends on how you will transact. (e.g: Making coinjoin transactions, revealing your master public key etc)

      This is what you may wanted to say, but you haven't formulated it properly. You've added this under “Why should you extend a seed”, which isn't true. If you extend your seed you aren't increasing your privacy strength. You strengthen the security of your wallet. The odds for someone to successfully find a seed collision.

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      pooya87
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      May 07, 2021, 03:06:51 AM
       #9

      I find this part of the post a bit misleading. What does it have to do with privacy? The addresses you'll derive from that seed will be known from the server(s) you're connected to.
      I believe OP was under the impression that the seed phrase the wallet create is shared with Electrum servers! which is obviously not true.

      Quote
      If you extend your seed you aren't increasing your privacy strength. You strengthen the security of your wallet. The odds for someone to successfully find a seed collision.
      The extra words do not provide any meaningful security to your wallet.
      And the odds of finding a collision is already high due to the big size of the entropy used to generate the seed phrase and is not really improved by adding extra words.

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      BlackHatCoiner
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      May 07, 2021, 07:12:28 AM
       #10

      The extra words do not provide any meaningful security to your wallet.

      I'd like to examine the chances.

      Let's assume that someone wants to brute force a certain legacy address you own, knowing that you've derived it from a master private key that was also derived from a seed. Let's also assume that he knows the derivation path of your address.

      The chances of finding your address are 1 in 2160, since he'll stop once he successfully finds your RIPEMD-160 hash. Whether he tries on twelve or twenty four words (128 or 256 bits), he'll stop once he finds the hash collision.

      This means that on average, finding your seed phrase will be 232 times easier than with brute forcing the address itself, excluding the different operations that need to be taken for a seed and for just an address.

      I'm just adding the numbers decimally:
      Code:
      2^128 = 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 (12 words)
      2^160 = 1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976 (RIPEMD-160 hash different combinations)
      2^256 = 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 (24 words)

      So yes, it may not provide any significant security to your wallet. It just makes brute forcing meaningless, since it'd be quicker if you brute forced the address instead of the seed phrase.

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      pooya87
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      May 08, 2021, 03:45:05 AM
       #11

      It just makes brute forcing meaningless, since it'd be quicker if you brute forced the address instead of the seed phrase.
      Brute forcing is already meaningless because the entropy size is big enough to make it impossible. Adding a very small step on top of it can not be considered a security measure. Also if we assume that the seed phrase is leaked, it is safe to assume that the extra words are also leaked.
      Also saying one impossible thing is easier than another impossible thing is like saying going to Uranus is easier than going to Neptune! Or in this case not even Neptune but only one of Uranus's close by satellites.

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