speculation freeroll game issue, moved topic, deleted posts..WHY?????

[El duderino_]

Some very annoying things ....

I opend a thread in speculation, this topic is about what willl the price be at a certain date, there is some reasoning and TA and speculation etc...
Then I ask everyone with enough merit etc to put in there guess what the price wil be and the closed one get a nice price in btc, so its a freeroll no one needs to pay an entry...

I opened this specific game with some speculation over the price in speculation boards... Mainly cause i,m mostly active in those boards and wanna attract those members specificially (have made some limks in otrher boards as well cause the whole comunity can join)
Then in the thread I always give some updates and repost the list, this is easy for me and for new joining members.

My question, problem at this moment is ... Why is there a mod always moving the topic to gambling, it isn't gambling for first its a freeroll where I give away a price as generosity to the community (though I like to attract the people I interact mostly with for first, the are the speculation board members, and those dont always look into gambling threads) Then again everyone can join !!!

Second problem why is there a mod always deleting my posts in this thread, its annoying AF, its just some list updates to keep things easy and organised...

Am I wrong??

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[hosseinimr93]

Second problem why is there a mod always deleting my posts in this thread, its annoying AF, its just some list updates to keep things easy and organised...

Some of your posts were deleted probably because you broke rule number 32.

32. Posting multiple posts in a row (excluding bumps and reserved posts by the thread starter) is not allowed.

Source: loyce.club

[LoyceV]

I opend a thread in speculation, this topic is about what willl the price be at a certain date, there is some reasoning and TA and speculation etc...

I've seen threads from Collectibles get moved to Games and rounds too. I guess Mods consider it a giveaway.
It's slightly weird though: if you'd open the same thread without giving away money to the best prediction, I don't think it would be moved out of Speculation.

[El duderino_]

Yeah but like the daily list update which includes all the participants at the last page... what’s wrong with that?

[hosseinimr93]

Yeah but like the daily list update which includes all the participants at the last page... what’s wrong with that?

You are referring to this post. Right? That's post number 117 in the image I posted above.
As I said in the first reply, you made multiple posts in a row.

You should make a single post instead of making multiple posts in a row, unless the posts are large and can't fit in one post or you make the second post at least 24 hours after the first one.
I recommend you to make the posts in a single post and separate them with [hr ].

Code:

Post 1
[hr]
Post 2

[hilariousandco]

I didn't remove them but the only reports I can see against you are for multiposting.

[El duderino_]

I just don’t really follow.... only thing I did was... copy paste all te names and prices in the original post, then after a few members guessed and wrote some TA then I make an update from the full list on the last page, makes it easy for people and avoids double price guesses etc

Sometimes I do delete the last update myself when some new people make there prediction and repost the list to make it the last post, I just don’t see anything wrong with it in this kind of specific threads which included a game and need some structure ... ( makes it easy for myself as well)

But then the other point the moving of the thread... Why? There is a giveaway but it’s highly reason is to read some price TA’s where people do some effort cause they are able to win something

Also, some posts deleted there where I reply on some guesses, a joke or ....

Just some easy deleted posts imho

[mprep]

<...>
Why is there a mod always moving the topic to gambling, it isn't gambling for first its a freeroll where I give away a price as generosity to the community (though I like to attract the people I interact mostly with for first, the are the speculation board members, and those dont always look into gambling threads) Then again everyone can join !!!
<...>

From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0 (additional emphasis added by me):

Games and rounds (child board of Gambling) - "Spreadsheet games, forum-based games, and discussion of individual rounds/games on other sites." All Bitcoin giveaways, raffles, contests also go here.

Giveaways and games that give out bitcoins for posting in a thread belong in Games and Rounds. Giving away cryptocurrency for posting in a thread outside that board is prohibited AFAIK. You could try asking theymos for an exception via PM, considering that he's one of the participants in the raffle.

<...>
Second problem why is there a mod always deleting my posts in this thread, its annoying AF, its just some list updates to keep things easy and organised...
<...>

From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0:

13. Bumps, "updates" are limited to once per 24 hours per thread. Bumping multiple threads at the same time is allowed if it's not annoying.

You've posted several update posts within a single day (just hours apart). Constantly bumping a thread is unfair to other threads as it pushes them down. If you want to update the list of participants, you're free to edit them into the OP or into the last bump / "update" post. Some of your other deleted posts were posted consecutively and as such have been merged into the first post in a row.

Hope that clears things up.

[El duderino_]

Thx for the very clearing post...

Will update a little less etc but I hope you understand it’s just because a lot of incoming price posts.... and this way everyone clearly sees what’s going on... also there is a time limit I think tomorrow or 2 days or something the list closes etc

But thx 

[icopress]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the set of rules is just a cheat sheet for mods, therefore, unquestioningly "adhering to the letter of the law" may not always be justified and objective. I just want to say that formally yes, El duderino_ allegedly violated several rules ... but given that the moments when the whole forum gathers in one place are extremely rare, the moderators probably should have shown more flexibility in making decisions.

Btw, speaking of "unfairness towards other threads", I would also say that drawing such an analogy is pointless, since I see a colossal difference between El duderino_'s thread and the threads of the "Game and Rounds" section. And the point is not at all about the declared remuneration, but about the strengthening of bitcoin culture and the value of opinions, (in fact, this is another reason why I believe that the place of thread X in the section of speculation). In any case, no matter what decision the mod made, I sense that El duderino_ is justifiably outraged as I think he is one of the last people on this forum to pursue pragmatic goals.

[mprep]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the set of rules is just a cheat sheet for mods, therefore, unquestioningly "adhering to the letter of the law" may not always be justified and objective. I just want to say that formally yes, El duderino_ allegedly violated several rules ... but given that the moments when the whole forum gathers in one place are extremely rare, the moderators probably should have shown more flexibility in making decisions.

Btw, speaking of "unfairness towards other threads", I would also say that drawing such an analogy is pointless, since I see a colossal difference between El duderino_'s thread and the threads of the "Game and Rounds" section. And the point is not at all about the declared remuneration, but about the strengthening of bitcoin culture and the value of opinions, (in fact, this is another reason why I believe that the place of thread X in the section of speculation). In any case, no matter what decision the moderator made, I feel that El duderino_ is justifiably outraged as I think he is one of the last people on this forum to pursue pragmatic goals.

You call it flexibility, but in a few months time someone else will call it favoritism, corruption and / or a lack of integrity on either my part or the entirety of Bitcointalk staff. While different interpretations and exceptions can be made for subjective rules (e.g. in determining what is a low value post with regard to context), I don't feel comfortable deciding on exceptions for a rather clear cut guideline from the big man himself:

Yes, incentivizing posting is totally disallowed in the altcoin sections, and in the other sections it must be confined to Games and Rounds.

<...>
Altcoin giveaways involving incentivized posting are not allowed anywhere on the forum, but certain incentivized-posting games (not altcoin giveaways) are allowed in Games & Rounds.
<...>

Most giveaway threads are no longer allowed in the Alternate cryptocurrencies sections.
<...>
Similar threads are already restricted to Games and Rounds in the non-altcoin sections
<...>

As I've mentioned in my previous post, if theymos gives the go ahead to move the topic back to Speculation, El duderino_ will be free to do so.

[shahzadafzal]

Well well I was wondering why you moved the thread to "Games and rounds" and why mods did not move it back to Speculation.

and it turned out to be otherwise... to me Speculation was the best place for it... since we are talking about the Bitcoin's price with "TA" and that's pure speculation, your analysis whatever the facts and figures you bring... it's still a pure speculation.

At first when i saw it was moved I was about to post that get ready.. you will be getting more work to do for whole next month.

Anyway since mprep have justified it pretty well by updating the rules with clause of "incentivizing posting", i guess nothing much can be done here.

I will suggest may be keep the thread running until certain numbers of user are enrolled (e.g. first 200, 500, or 1000) up to you how much work you ready to do. Then lock it until the final date.


and for updates I guess post#2 in the thread is the better place, you already reserved it.

Edit: Opps my bad closing date is 19 May... I thought 19 June :p

[El duderino_]

Yeah pity it isn't in speculation ... will think about that if I make another game, ask somekind of permission or something

[El duderino_]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the set of rules is just a cheat sheet for mods, therefore, unquestioningly "adhering to the letter of the law" may not always be justified and objective. I just want to say that formally yes, El duderino_ allegedly violated several rules ... but given that the moments when the whole forum gathers in one place are extremely rare, the moderators probably should have shown more flexibility in making decisions.

Btw, speaking of "unfairness towards other threads", I would also say that drawing such an analogy is pointless, since I see a colossal difference between El duderino_'s thread and the threads of the "Game and Rounds" section. And the point is not at all about the declared remuneration, but about the strengthening of bitcoin culture and the value of opinions, (in fact, this is another reason why I believe that the place of thread X in the section of speculation). In any case, no matter what decision the mod made, I sense that El duderino_ is justifiably outraged as I think he is one of the last people on this forum to pursue pragmatic goals.

Thx .... couldn’t said it better myself...  indeed not looking for some kind of goals etc, understand mprep as well, Now I know for the next time

Though in the past I hosted 5-6-7-8 I don’t know how many games... all in speculation

[LoyceV]

Though in the past I hosted 5-6-7-8 I don’t know how many games... all in speculation

I've seen many free raffles in Collectibles too (example). Moving those topics to Games and rounds feels like killing those very nice community giveaways, it doesn't justify the effort and money someone puts in without expecting anything in return.

In my opinion, Games and rounds is a great board for commercial games, such as promoting a casino, but not for community "games".

[El duderino_]

Though in the past I hosted 5-6-7-8 I don’t know how many games... all in speculation

I've seen many free raffles in Collectibles too (example). Moving those topics to Games and rounds feels like killing those very nice community giveaways, it doesn't justify the effort and money someone puts in without expecting anything in return.

In my opinion, Games and rounds is a great board for commercial games, such as promoting a casino, but not for community "games".

Indeed I feel the same

A community give away

Or a commercial for promoting etc

Very different kind of things ...

[mprep]

Though in the past I hosted 5-6-7-8 I don’t know how many games... all in speculation

I've seen many free raffles in Collectibles too (example). Moving those topics to Games and rounds feels like killing those very nice community giveaways, it doesn't justify the effort and money someone puts in without expecting anything in return.

In my opinion, Games and rounds is a great board for commercial games, such as promoting a casino, but not for community "games".

I don't moderate the Collectibles board that often so I'm not sure about the status of physical collectible giveaways / free raffles. I've messaged theymos about it and I'll post what he has to say (or edit it into this post) when I hear back from him (and if he gives me permission to do so).

[theymos]

A topic where you ask people to guess the price and give their reasoning would not be incentivized posting warranting movement to Games & Rounds. But because there is a prize, it is incentivized posting and should be moved to Games & Rounds according to the rules-as-written.

However: Almost all rules are subject to mod discretion. The reason for the rule against games with incentivized posting outside of "Games & Rounds" is to prevent unfair/excessive bumping and "last-posts"-filling except in "quarantine" sections which people can ignore.  In El duderino_'s games:
 - El duderino has no incentive to cause spammy replies. The prize is a true gift.
 - The game has a pretty high entry requirement which prevents the replies from actually becoming spammy.
 - El duderino_ very much prefers that the games be in Speculation rather than Games & Rounds.

Therefore, it's most appropriate in this case to apply mod discretion and make an exception to the rules as written; El duderino_'s future games of this sort can stay in Speculation.