The Downfall of TSLA

[stompix]

If indeed the world starts moving toward electric vehicles, you'd better believe Ford, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, and all the other car manufacturers will begin producing very fine e-vehicles, and Tesla will be just one among many.
~~~~
I know your post wasn't directed at me in particular, but for the record, I don't think I've ever cheered Tesla other than to perhaps state that them accepting bitcoin was cool.  Nor have I changed my opinion about them as a company (I don't really have a strong opinion, but I do like e-cars). 

Of course, I targeted only the ones that were spamming the whole Tesla Elon hype around and who now are screaming exactly the opposite, the people throwing stones at Saint Elon, at looks like there are quite a lot of them, May isn't over yet and he has a lot more tweets ready as far as I can guess .

As for Tesla, quite funny, I disliked that company for a long time and especially their valuation, how the hell can it be evaluated that much right now as it's bigger than the other 8 major car manufacturers, they would have to produce half of the world cars and the other ones waiting patiently and see their market share erode and all this while exactly the opposite is happening as Tesla is losing market share in electric vehicle car sales, even if we exclude those Chinese cars that will never be allowed for registration in the EU.
But if they fail in the end it's not going to be because they've sold BTC at the wrong time or bitcoiners boycotting them

Other than that I'm a bit concerned with this antagonization of Tesla some hardcore bitcoiners are pushing overall social media.
I've seen few discussions where people trying to defend the power issue have started calling tesla owners all sorts of names and accusing them of killing the planet and so on, this is just making more people avoid bitcoin in the end.

It can be either overvalued or realistic.

Or undervalued...when Elon comes back and says he has bought another 1.5 billion worth of BTC 

[bitmover]

It can be either overvalued or realistic.

Or undervalued...when Elon comes back and says he has bought another 1.5 billion worth of BTC 

It is very hard to say something is overpriced or not. The price is always looking at the future, as investors are looking at the future, always. This is why we have so much volatility in all markets, because the future is always uncertain. 

But the future looks bright for tesla. There is a real "green" theme in the air , and now that trump lost the election, biden is really a more green guy. He will give more subsidies to green companies, like tesla.

Personally  I believe that in the future old cars will lose ground year after year... electric cars are cleaner and more silent.

So its make sense to see Tesla worth more money than Ford or BMW.

They claim gains of 5 times the energy, 18% gains in range and 6 times the power. Not to mention gains in manufacturing efficiency and lower cost production.

They plan to license this technology to other automakers in the future. The way that nintendo licensed old cartridge technology over existing technology like CDs/DVDs to earn an extra profit.

Anyways, if someone wanted to claim tesla stock is overvalued, this might be one good place to start.

This is a great example for why TSLA should not be valued as simply just a car manufacturer.

I also agree with hydrogen here. Tesla is developing new technologies,  which will be used in many different industries.  Thise batteries are more potent, and their tech will be everywhere in the future. This is a tech which may change a lot in our world.

It is sad that Elon musk is a lunatic ...

[sana54210]

if someone wanted to claim tesla stock is overvalued, this might be one good place to start.

If people want to claim that Tesla stock is overvalued, that is not because of what they do, it is because what they claim they will do and I do agree with that.

I do not think that Tesla price being overvalued is a problem, there are so many stocks in the world that are overvalued because people keep investing into stocks and some of them are at the top, Amazon for example was overvalued for over a decade because it was a company that did not profited, and yet people still valued it so high, all because the potential of what it may do, well it did it now and it went up even more than expected which means it is overvalued even after profiting.

Think of these both (and many other) companies as these numbers (numbers are made up, but it is just example), you pay 1 dollar to a company because it will be 5 dollar in the future but right now it should be valued at 0.50 dollars, then one day it does become 5 dollars and you tell people "see I told you so", just because it reached 5 dollars doesn't mean you bought it too expensive at that time.

[teosanru]

The fact TSLA is valued more then all the auto manufactures combined is absurd. You're naive to think big auto is just going to sit on the sidelines. Big auto has the infrastructure and production lines to mass produce fully electric vehicles for a fraction of the cost of a TSLA, something TSLA will never be able do. Ford is already leading the charge with the F-150 Lightning and converting old factories into fully electric vehicle production plants. TSLA is just as overhyped as Elon Musk.

I would have completely agreed with you and your thesis if Tesla wouldn't have been making breakthrough technologies everyday. The sole fact that Tesla is the market maker in almost every product they try to step in is the reason that their stock price command such huge premium. I do agree it might look overvalued if you see the financials and especially that the company is actually running on operating losses. But the primary cost of R&D is the prime reason behind the huge losses of the company. Also despite operation losses company is Cash. positive infact has such huge cash reserves that it decided to invest in Bitcoin too. I do agree it is slightly overvalued but if you add the sentimental value of Tesla it's round about exactly where it should be. Moroever, I don't think Tesla would correct a lot instead I think it's financials will soon start reflecting the reason for such a price.

[jaysabi]

Tesla unveiled plans to design and build revolutionary new battery technology for 2022.

...

Anyways, if someone wanted to claim tesla stock is overvalued, this might be one good place to start.

"Plans to design" is a long way off from an ability to build. This is a hype piece and there's nothing of substance. Elon's "plans" are pretty worthless. He overhypes everything and falls short on the hype when push comes to shove. He's been promising battery breakthroughs for years already and not delivered on it. It's only in the past year that he's started meeting the annual vehicle production rates he promises; he's quit well-known for setting production targets and never reaching them.

So yeah, Tesla's overvalued because they haven't done squat about the batteries yet and Elon's "plans" to solve the battery issue isn't worth anything until he actually does it.

[amishmanish]

If indeed the world starts moving toward electric vehicles, you'd better believe Ford, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, and all the other car manufacturers will begin producing very fine e-vehicles, and Tesla will be just one among many.
~~~~
I know your post wasn't directed at me in particular, but for the record, I don't think I've ever cheered Tesla other than to perhaps state that them accepting bitcoin was cool.  Nor have I changed my opinion about them as a company (I don't really have a strong opinion, but I do like e-cars). 

--snip--
Other than that I'm a bit concerned with this antagonization of Tesla some hardcore bitcoiners are pushing overall social media.
I've seen few discussions where people trying to defend the power issue have started calling tesla owners all sorts of names and accusing them of killing the planet and so on, this is just making more people avoid bitcoin in the end.

Totally agree. At one point, Bitcoiners are like the champions of this new technology that will replace money and make people have more financial control than what the nexus of politicians, banks and corporates allow them. On the other, the moment their fiat earning are taking a dump, they are out rallying against the EV revolution that Tesla started.

None of the other automakers were interested in putting money and research into EVs till Musk came along and showed that this could be done and people will buy them. Not to forget his other long term plans plus innovations at SpaceX. The re-landings are now routine. SN15 just did the first successful re-landing. Every day the guy is pushing the envelope of whats possible for humans. Antagonizing that community doesn't really match up to the values of Bitcoin.

[casperBGD]

~snip
Every day the guy is pushing the envelope of whats possible for humans. Antagonizing that community doesn't really match up to the values of Bitcoin.

how I see it, this is the real issue
Elon is an innovator, he heard about Bitcoin innovation, get interested, but it came out that Bitcoin innovation is finished, and Bitcoin is pretty much unchangeable at the time being
for Elon, innovation is the state of mind, and it does not seem as he would stuck with unchangeable things, or be interested in it, no matter how hard this innovation is changing the world in other means

nevertheless, I do not think that he is done with cryptocurrencies

[zanezane]

Apparently they're getting into trouble with their solar roofs project.  Someone's filing a lawsuit.  They do seem to have a talent for pissing people off, heh.

Not any different from other big companies out there, I think pissing off people should be a natural talent for companies to make it big. Never heard of the lawsuit with the solar roof projects but I have heard that they had problems with people in Texas near their Spacex planned basecamp.

[amishmanish]

~snip
Every day the guy is pushing the envelope of whats possible for humans. Antagonizing that community doesn't really match up to the values of Bitcoin.

how I see it, this is the real issue
Elon is an innovator, he heard about Bitcoin innovation, get interested, but it came out that Bitcoin innovation is finished, and Bitcoin is pretty much unchangeable at the time being
for Elon, innovation is the state of mind, and it does not seem as he would stuck with unchangeable things, or be interested in it, no matter how hard this innovation is changing the world in other means

nevertheless, I do not think that he is done with cryptocurrencies

I think he failed to grasp the political and economic argument behind the soundness of Bitcoin and has only yet focussed on the technical part.

This is why he jumped on the wagon without being clear about why the community has stood behind Bitcoin for so long and why do we need PoW from a coin with no central leadership, open development and a history of securing billions in transaction. The comment about 10X blocksize and blocktime was so un-informed that I couldn't believe it was Musk. We all know he doesn't do everything by himself but he is behind a lot of design activities in SpaceX. This just confirms though that being an expert in rockets doesn't make you an expert on cryptography. A lot of newbies think so.

It was funnily evident on one noobs' reply to Adam Back on Twitter asking him, "Do you think you know more about crypto than Elon?". The community was like, "Duh, yeah he does".

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

Is Tesla operating? If yes then there was no downfall, though their stocks are suffering right now, I don't think that they won't be going away anytime soon, I think downfall is not the right word because it implies that Tesla will not be able to recover from this which isn't true since they are a revolutionary company.

[DoublerHunter]

Is Tesla operating? If yes then there was no downfall, though their stocks are suffering right now, I don't think that they won't be going away anytime soon, I think downfall is not the right word because it implies that Tesla will not be able to recover from this which isn't true since they are a revolutionary company.

^ It is fully operational and regardless of production rate, the promises of innovation Tesla is offering are too effective. That is why their stocks are soaring high even when profits were not there yet. Elon Musk is a capable man, that person is not just a businessman or even an entrepreneur. He is a technical person as well. That is why the trust of the people is with him and we can’t blame those people who support him. Not just that, his prototypes are solving problems that possibly be adopted on a global scale. A business model that is scalable is somehow promising though.  Nevertheless, these are my opinion, let me know what is your take.

[perfect999]

The fact TSLA is valued more then all the auto manufactures combined is absurd. You're naive to think big auto is just going to sit on the sidelines. Big auto has the infrastructure and production lines to mass produce fully electric vehicles for a fraction of the cost of a TSLA, something TSLA will never be able do. Ford is already leading the charge with the F-150 Lightning and converting old factories into fully electric vehicle production plants. TSLA is just as overhyped as Elon Musk.

One thing with TESLA that makes them seem like they are really ahead of other motor companies is their innovation. They are always coming up with new ideas on how to do things and they keep pushing. And apart from that, they also have a really huge fan base that is supporting them, through the influence of Elon Musk.

But, that doesn’t mean that other motor companies cannot be able to compete with them, they can as well do that if they want to, but they are going to have to do better than that and it takes hard work . Once other companies starts releasing their own and also coming up with their own innovations, then the competition is going to be leveled. It’s all with time. The company you least expect can even be the one that will pop up tomorrow.

[Unplugged]

TSLA is just as overhyped as Elon Musk.

That statement is quite true but really most of Tesla's products has been top notch and well delivered (ahem* Cybertruck). They are more inclined for a sustainable future but really the backbone of the company has been exploiting low-labor cost workers. Elon twitting and talking about crypto in general is a move to entice the market, other than that is just a plain tactic to squeeze some gains in a short time which will eventually result in a loss (which we see now since they remove accepting btc as payment and their stock price is affected).

[grabpopcorn536]

The world financial markets have been hot for many days. From March 2020 to now, the S&P500 has been hot and surpassed 4000 points. TESLA stock is among the fastest-growing in this index. TESLA's drop started when Elon Musk FUD Bitcoin. In just one week Bitcoin has dropped 50% in value and TESLA stock is down 25%. This is so coincidental.

[danherbias07]

His real downfall is when he started making Tweets against Bitcoin or worse, when he started joining the cryptocurrency trend.
Obviously, his aim is not about the payment system that needs to be changed or his company want to accept, it's all about profits.
Dragging his investors into the same path and leading them where to put all those money and when to sell it. It's a good way to manipulate the small crypto market but not Bitcoin.
It didn't emerged just a few years back. It's roots are way back and it's not easy to take down a vast tree. Not a single guy or even paired with his rich partners.

[jostorres]

Probably in future all these people will realize that they are investing on an overhyped share, but now they are the bigger electric cars and with the word electric cars are the future they are keeping them in the leading position but in the next 10 years we will see every car manufacturers will be doing the same.

They are rated high because of their innovation in technology as you can also see from the information posted above by Hydrogen how they are again bringing and testing new technologies.

Apparently they're getting into trouble with their solar roofs project.  Someone's filing a lawsuit.  They do seem to have a talent for pissing people off, heh.

Indeed and there are multiple ways they have pissed people, you know what I am saying right .

It is good to see innovation coming from them but I would rather want them to stay outside the crypto world for a while. Accepting and later cancelling BTC payment method has overall only brought them negative vibes. A car manufacturing company should only focus on technology which they are excellent at but should avoid making rushed decisions.

[Silberman]

Tesla unveiled plans to design and build revolutionary new battery technology for 2022.

Tesla constantly unveils their plans for this and that, yet many of these projects later prove themselves to be unsustainable.

That is my main issue with all of this, new ideas move the world forward that is true but the execution and how to materialize those ideas is in fact way more important, if they actually make that battery then that is an actual progress but if that never happens then it was just a waste of time and if anything it may seem like an effort to try to keep the price of the stock of TSLA high enough for the time being, which is yet another form to manipulate the market on their favor.

[Bitstar_coin]

It can be either overvalued or realistic. Who knows? Perhaps people believe in Elon Musk and how he will rock the world with his genius idea. He is awesome, IMO, but there are more things that need to be done before Tesla truly becomes the number one company on the planet. I feel like he is overconfident and forgets how to manufacture properly.
.......

People use to believe in previous Elon and not this meme promoter kind of Musk, he has deposit all his brilliant ideas on promoting shitcoins rather than focusing more own his on invention, he his confident because he feels there no more genius on the planet earth that's the reason why he is so confident, perhaps before anyone can match up with him may take some time,  but that's not a reason to mess with people's feelings.

[bryant.coleman]

People use to believe in previous Elon and not this meme promoter kind of Musk, he has deposit all his brilliant ideas on promoting shitcoins rather than focusing more own his on invention, he his confident because he feels there no more genius on the planet earth that's the reason why he is so confident, perhaps before anyone can match up with him may take some time,  but that's not a reason to mess with people's feelings.

He is the world's second richest person and obviously he has a lot of followers. McAfee had a fraction of the followers Musk had and we all saw how he made hundreds of millions of $$$ by manipulating the cryptocurrency market. Now Musk is slowly following the example set by McAfee, by trying to manipulate the market using his social media influence. If he doesn't back off, then he will face the same fate as that of McAfee. And if that happens, then I will be really sad. Because Musk is a very talented person, and he can use that talent for the well being of humanity.

[Silberman]

People use to believe in previous Elon and not this meme promoter kind of Musk, he has deposit all his brilliant ideas on promoting shitcoins rather than focusing more own his on invention, he his confident because he feels there no more genius on the planet earth that's the reason why he is so confident, perhaps before anyone can match up with him may take some time,  but that's not a reason to mess with people's feelings.

He is the world's second richest person and obviously he has a lot of followers. McAfee had a fraction of the followers Musk had and we all saw how he made hundreds of millions of $$$ by manipulating the cryptocurrency market. Now Musk is slowly following the example set by McAfee, by trying to manipulate the market using his social media influence. If he doesn't back off, then he will face the same fate as that of McAfee. And if that happens, then I will be really sad. Because Musk is a very talented person, and he can use that talent for the well being of humanity.

This is the same that I have been thinking, Musk is doing exactly what McAfee was doing and we know that this is not a good path to take and yet he seems confident he can do whatever he wants and there are not going to be any repercussions for his actions, but I think he is feeling for the first time some pushback as he has been trying to backtrack his previous tweets and trying to make it seem as if he is still onboard of bitcoin when I doubt he is holding any bitcoin anymore.