Bitcoin Forum
May 05, 2024, 03:47:05 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Taking Bitcoin down  (Read 93 times)
omerbp (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4
Merit: 0


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 07:45:39 AM
 #1

We've heard recently about China’s efforts to restrain cryptocurrency trading and mining. I wonder if China or other coalition of countries could use the following approach to take Bitcoin's blockchain down (or better yer, to highjack it).


0. Buy equipment to start a huge mining farm (let's call it the highjacking farm).
1. (illegal, but reasonable) take down the electricity in the largest mining farms.
2. The highjacking farm mines using selfish mining of empty blocks solely, collecting coins but forbidding transactions.
3. Repeat 1-2 as needed to make sure the entire public branch is composed of the highjacking farm's blocks.

My questions are:

a) What is the cost of buying equipment for this highjack? Assuming that an alpha fraction of the electricity (and hence other mining farms) could be taken down? How does it scale with alpha?
b) How likely you find this approach to be taken in real life?
c) Do you know of other non-regulatory ways countries can fight Bitcoin (or other coins), turning Bitcoin's decentralization against it?
"This isn't the kind of software where we can leave so many unresolved bugs that we need a tracker for them." -- Satoshi
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714880825
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714880825

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714880825
Reply with quote  #2

1714880825
Report to moderator
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4592
Merit: 1276


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 08:04:03 AM
 #2

We've heard recently about China’s efforts to restrain cryptocurrency trading and mining. I wonder if China or other coalition of countries could use the following approach to take Bitcoin's blockchain down (or better yer, to highjack it).


0. Buy equipment to start a huge mining farm (let's call it the highjacking farm).
1. (illegal, but reasonable) take down the electricity in the largest mining farms.
2. The highjacking farm mines using selfish mining of empty blocks solely, collecting coins but forbidding transactions.
3. Repeat 1-2 as needed to make sure the entire public branch is composed of the highjacking farm's blocks.

My questions are:

a) What is the cost of buying equipment for this highjack? Assuming that an alpha fraction of the electricity (and hence other mining farms) could be taken down? How does it scale with alpha?
b) How likely you find this approach to be taken in real life?
c) Do you know of other non-regulatory ways countries can fight Bitcoin (or other coins), turning Bitcoin's decentralization against it?


Most old-timers...who are still around...don't actually transact very often and don't need to.  With the blockchain and a few brain cells to rub together you really cannot get screwed on a long-term basis.  Just sit things out for a few days.  Pay the relatively tiny transaction fee of, say $50 (roughly equiv of the fees in the bankster operated fiat apparatus) and a miner who mines a block gets something like $120,000 in fees alone for a single block.  That's enough incentive to fire up mining nodes anywhere there is sunshine for solar panels.

Maybe that's why Bill Gates wants to dim the sun?  Hmmm....

Anyway, the system starts working again (for the purpose of _real_ users) within a few weeks without any honest nodes in China or the U.S..  For small fry to who are trying to buy a pack of Skittles there are about 100,000 'alts', many of them proof-of-stake, which are easily exchanged.


sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
semobo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 1498
Merit: 146


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 12:50:56 PM
 #3

If someone wants to control the bitcoin blockchain then they need to have access of 51% of the miners so they can simply do whatever they want but just buying that much of miners are not going to enough, they have to keep spending the electricity which may cost few billion dollars so actually its not possible to happen.
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4592
Merit: 1276


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
 #4

If someone wants to control the bitcoin blockchain then they need to have access of 51% of the miners so they can simply do whatever they want but just buying that much of miners are not going to enough, they have to keep spending the electricity which may cost few billion dollars so actually its not possible to happen.

Not true.  If you have a copy of the blockchain (a full node which still fits comfortably on a single HDD thanks to a lot of effort by people like moi when the bloat attackers were at work half a decade ago) you can verify things for yourself.  The system could be locked up and it not safe to transact for a while, but funds cannot be stolen.  At risk would be some [property associated with] transactions which are in transit before people realized that unusually large roll-backs are the new-normal.  In other words, one might only be feeling safe after well more than three confirmations and such-like.  No biggie for a lot of us.

Unless you sign away value using your private keys the money is going to be there safe and sound in the blockchain.  It is not necessary and VERY unlikely that a plurality of actual users are going to accept a corrupt blockchain so honest actors will just keep building a good one at the pace they can.

Same bloat attackers also tried a time sequence transaction scheme which would have weakened things significantly.  Thankfully they failed at that as well.

sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3780
Merit: 1372


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 02:48:07 PM
 #5

^^^ I have a question. What changed recently?

Every day at the same time I update my full node. For the last couple of years at least, it has always taken something like a half-hour to 45 minutes. Suddenly, a couple of weeks ago, there was a day that I could hardly connect to the network at all. This happened again, about a week ago. Now I can update my node in ten minutes, real fast compared to the past. It happened with this Bitcoin Musk dump. And it happened with Bitcoin Cash full node as well.

What changed? It might be my service provider making changes. But was there anything on the Bitcoin or blockchain end that could have made the change? Has it happened with other altcoins besides BCH?

Cool

BUDESONIDE essentially cures Covid symptoms in one day to one week >>> https://budesonideworks.com/.
Hydroxychloroquine is being used against Covid with great success >>> https://altcensored.com/watch?v=otRN0X6F81c.
Masks are stupid. Watch the first 5 minutes >>> https://www.bitchute.com/video/rlWESmrijl8Q/.
Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin. Thank you. >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz
Gyfts
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2758
Merit: 1512


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 03:09:13 PM
 #6

c) Do you know of other non-regulatory ways countries can fight Bitcoin (or other coins), turning Bitcoin's decentralization against it?

I might say that having an attractive economic system with a stable fiat currency would turn people away from a decentralized currency's volatility, but in this day and age, there is no way any government could separate a hole in the ground from their ass so that isn't so much of a strategy. But hypothetically, I guess any country could make the cause against BTC by promoting their own stable currency. Some people ought to buy the pitch.
BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3780
Merit: 1372


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 10:11:18 PM
 #7

Taking Bitcoin down


So that we all can buy low and sell high again. Gives us a second start.


Cool

BUDESONIDE essentially cures Covid symptoms in one day to one week >>> https://budesonideworks.com/.
Hydroxychloroquine is being used against Covid with great success >>> https://altcensored.com/watch?v=otRN0X6F81c.
Masks are stupid. Watch the first 5 minutes >>> https://www.bitchute.com/video/rlWESmrijl8Q/.
Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin. Thank you. >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz
Quickseller
Copper Member
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298


View Profile
May 25, 2021, 10:40:39 PM
 #8

If China wanted to harm bitcoin in this way, they would just seize the miners physically located in China, stop exports of miners, so they can use those miners to attack bitcoin, and seize control of the miners manufacturing plants so they can produce additional miners.

China is an authoritarian country and its government basically does what it wants. The cost to the Chinese government is nearly zero. They would only decide to attack bitcoin if they decided it was too difficult to control their population with their citizens using bitcoin.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!