Ledger wallet help please

[irukandji]

So I have friend who had some bitcoin stored with a ledger wallet. They used the function where you have a dummy wallet in case someone gets access. They still have their 24 words but the real wallet copntaing the bitcoin was also behind a pin number and a password , I think.
So when they tried to access the bitcoin they only were able to access the dummy wallet. They cannot remember the password.

Will they still be able to use the seed words in another wallet with the same derivation path, even if they also used a password?
Or will they need to remember the password too?

Thanks

[Bttzed03]

Will they still be able to use the seed words in another wallet with the same derivation path, even if they also used a password?
Or will they need to remember the password too?

I believe you can import it in other wallets like Electrum without any problem. What I know is that the Ledger password should be exclusive to that device only. It's not the same as creating a bitcointalk account and accessing it on different computers where you need a password.

You might find this article helpful  - Resetting your Ledger Live password

By resetting Ledger Live, you will not lose your crypto assets since your private keys giving access to your funds remain secure on your Ledger device and are backed up by your recovery phrase.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Choosen password its optional but if you do and forgot the password This article might be helps
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395233

Losing it requires resetting Ledget Live and re-adding your accounts. This does not affect your crypto assets.

Edit: dont do this for your ledger hardware wallet .
hopefully you can access your wallet.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Choosen password its optional but if you do and forgot the password This article might be helps
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395233

Losing it requires resetting Ledget Live and re-adding your accounts. This does not affect your crypto assets.

Don't do this! This advice is for Ledger Live, not the Ledger hardware wallet itself. If you reset your hardware wallet, you will absolutely lose access to all your accounts and crypto assets unless you have the necessary seed phrase +/- passphrase.

They still have their 24 words but the real wallet copntaing the bitcoin was also behind a pin number and a password , I think.

The 24 word seed phrase is necessary to recover both the dummy wallet and the hidden wallet. The hidden wallet also requires an additional passphrase which he would have chosen when he first set up the hidden wallet. Without this passphrase, he cannot recover access to the coins in the hidden wallet.

Does your friend still have his original Ledger device in working order? If he does, and he remembers ever using a secondary PIN, then he can recover access to his hidden wallet using this secondary PIN without knowing the passphrase. He should then move all the coins out to a new wallet where he has properly backed up the relevant recovery data.

If he has not used a secondary PIN, or does not have access to his original device, then the only option to recover the coins is with the additional passphrase. If he does not remember this, then he will need to attempt to brute force it, but if it is at all long or complex then this will be next to impossible.

[dkbit98]

Will they still be able to use the seed words in another wallet with the same derivation path, even if they also used a password?
Or will they need to remember the password too?

There is a difference between password and passphrase in Ledger wallet.
Password or PIN is stored on device and it is used the moment you turn on your device and connect it to computer, and passphrase is used as 25th word for your seed words and it is connected with your PIN.
Ledger made this even more complicated then it should be, but losing passphrase you are actually losing access to your coins.

[khaled0111]

Will they still be able to use the seed words in another wallet with the same derivation path, even if they also used a password?

Unfortunately, no!
By recovering the wallet using only the 24 words seed you will get the same dummy wallet you already have on your HW.
Many confuses the Ledger passphrase with the password other wallets use. The password you define when you create a wallet, for example, with Electrum, only serves to encrypt the wallet file on your device. Therefore, even if you lose it, it is still possible to recover your wallet if you have its seed. The passphrase on the other hand is part of the seed itself and losing it is the same as losing the whole seed.
Your friends only option right now is to try to brute force it.

[Chikito]

By and large, there is a simple solution for those users who lost their 25^th  password (aka passphrase/password ) but still have access to their funds via second PIN on Ledger. All they need is to send their bitcoins to new address which  is in their full control  (such address can be created with Electrum, for example) and after that send them back to Ledger address created with SEED and new password.

I don't think so, If the case the user shuts down the wallet, he must to setting additional passphrases first before access the wallet. because the passphrase only temporary in Ledger, when shutdown the user must setting back the passphrase in the security setting.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I don't think so, If the case the user shuts down the wallet, he must to setting additional passphrases first before access the wallet. because the passphrase only temporary in Ledger, when shutdown the user must setting back the passphrase in the security setting.

There are two ways to use a passphrase on Ledger wallets. The first is as you have described, where the user must first unlock their device with their main PIN, then navigate to settings and manually enter the passphrase they wish to use. There is a second method, however, where the user only needs to enter their passphrase once, and can then attach it to a secondary PIN. If they enter this secondary PIN instead of their main PIN when they first turn on their device, it will open the passphrased wallets without having to manually enter the passphrase.

I don't like this second method because it means you can only use one passphrase at a time, and it also means a user could go years without entering or even thinking about their passphrase, which is a risk since many users do not back up their passphrases securely like they do with their seed phrases.

You can read more about these two options here: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-Advanced-passphrase-security

[irukandji]

So I have friend who had some bitcoin stored with a ledger wallet. They used the function where you have a dummy wallet in case someone gets access. They still have their 24 words but the real wallet copntaing the bitcoin was also behind a pin number and a password , I think.
So when they tried to access the bitcoin they only were able to access the dummy wallet. They cannot remember the password.

Will they still be able to use the seed words in another wallet with the same derivation path, even if they also used a password?
Or will they need to remember the password too?

Thanks

The set of private keys created in Ledger from SEED + password is different from that one derived from the bare SEED. So to access his fund in another BIP39 compatible wallet your friend needs both things i.e. SEED and his used password, the single SEED will not help him. He cold try offline iancoleman.io/bip39/ tool to find his password.

Thanks for this. And thank you to everyone who helped. My friend thinks she can narrow down the passphrase but wants to establish what is the correct phrase before trying too many times in ledger.
So can we just use the iancoleman site to try different combinations?

If we can do this, do we just use the BIP39 part and do we enter the 24 words in the seed section or the Mnemonic section?

Can we enter these in and find the corresponding addresses?
She knows the address that has the bitcoin.

Thanks again

[o_e_l_e_o]

If we can do this, do we just use the BIP39 part and do we enter the 24 words in the seed section or the Mnemonic section?

First, download the site and transfer it to an offline computer, preferably one which will never go online again and is running a live OS such as Tails. You don't want to take the risk of your seed phrase leaking to the internet and losing all your coins.

Enter your seed phrase in the top box titled "BIP39 Mnemonic". Then enter your passphrase in the next box titled "BIP39 Passphrase (optional)". Scroll down to where it says "Derivation Path" in big letters, and select "BIP44" if the hidden address begins with "1", select "BIP49" if it begins with "3", or select "BIP84" if it begins with "bc1". Then scroll down again and see if the address is there. If not, try a different passphrase.

If you still cannot find the address despite trying every passphrase you can think of, then you might want to consider using a program such as btcrecover to attempt to brute force it.

[irukandji]

When trying to drill his password he must use  iancoleman rather then Ledger itself and definitely he must do it on offline computer.

His SEED ==> BIP39 Mnemonic
His passphrase ==> BIP39 Passphrase (optional)

Thank you!