Gambling tax proposal in Ukraine

[kawetsriyanto]

I don't know why some people are worried about tax on gambling sites, isn't it taxes are for casinos only and not on the gamblers.

Since the gambling sites must spend more money for the taxes, some people probably feel afraid that many casinos will apply higher transaction fees on the gambling sites. The owners of gambling sites may consider increasing the deposit and withdrawal fees. This way is a reasonable solution to balance the income and expenses of the gambling sites. If this really happens, the gamblers must spend more money to gamble.

[peter0425]

If the taxes are expensive, but the services you have access in retribution are decent I think there is nothing wrong in paying more.

It is not only about decent or pleasing service now, it may not even be pleasing service if the tax collected from winners/punters is too high, what makes a service pleasing is the net gain after winning and also about the intrinsic services provided. If no kyc crypto gambling sites are also decent and pleasing, many people can leave the high tax gambling sites to no kyc crypto ones that do not demand for tax.

I don't know why some people are worried about tax on gambling sites, isn't it taxes are for casinos only and not on the gamblers. I mean, they are the ones who are making money, most gamblers are spending money just to be entertained, so we don't pay taxes on entertainment, I think that makes sense, right?

you don't understand what you are saying here mate .. because yes the Taxation will only be charge from the site but do you know where will be the site owners will get this taxes?
of course this will drops down to the players , meaning the house edge might increase silently that the gamblers don't even anticipate or in some other ways that operator only knew.

[Xinarae*]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

[kawetsriyanto]

But we have to accept it, because gambling sites do this in order to survive in a gambling industry that has many competitors.

Sure. We should accept it. We know that increasing the deposit & withdrawal fees is the ultimate way made by the gambling sites. The owners also don't want to increase transaction fees if they have no taxes issue. Also, if they can choose another way, I am sure they probably consider not increase the fees as it can decrease the interest of gamblers to play.

I am sure that gambling sites increase transaction fees not too high, they will also think about fees that gamblers can still accept.

I agree with you, the owners must consider a proper and acceptable increase for the gamblers. If the increase is too high, the gamblers may not come again to the gambling sites. There are too many gambling sites in the world, the gamblers will choose the gambling sites that provide the most affordable transaction fees.

[johhnyUA]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Lol. Gambling is already legalized, you're a little bit late with your news 
Casino can be opened at any big hotel in special underground area, or in special places. And i know that some hotels already legalized their grey casinos.

[jostorres]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Not sure about the legal status of gambling in Ukraine but I think it is a good step if the president of Ukraine is planning to legalize gambling because people will otherwise gambling illegally and makes no sense for the government to ban gambling when there are ways people can still do it. I am not of the opinion that gambling is a great thing because it makes people lazy but still, people should be able to spend their money the way they wish. A 10% tax sounds reasonable to me because around that is what most of the other countries have if I am not wrong.

[mv1986]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Not sure about the legal status of gambling in Ukraine but I think it is a good step if the president of Ukraine is planning to legalize gambling because people will otherwise gambling illegally and makes no sense for the government to ban gambling when there are ways people can still do it. I am not of the opinion that gambling is a great thing because it makes people lazy but still, people should be able to spend their money the way they wish. A 10% tax sounds reasonable to me because around that is what most of the other countries have if I am not wrong.

https://cms.law/en/int/expert-guides/cms-expert-guide-to-gambling-laws-in-cee/ukraine

On a first view it doesn't seem to be as bad but not as good either. Gambling is allowed and yes there is a structure for the being different for certain activities. The companies operating casinos pay 28% in total, consisting of 18% corporate tax and 10% gambling tax. But they are also responsible to withhold and remit that money players owe as taxes. A lot of administration because there is also another rule:

"the taxation of players: winnings up to eight times the minimum monthly salary (currently UAH 48,000 (ca. EUR 1,400)) exempted from tax, beyond which there is 18% PIT + 1.5% military levy."

[lixer]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Lol. Gambling is already legalized, you're a little bit late with your news 
Casino can be opened at any big hotel in special underground area, or in special places. And i know that some hotels already legalized their grey casinos.

Yeah, imagine how cool it must have been to operate a grey/illegal casino and then you get the news that gambling is being legalized. Others will have to set up everything while these illegal ones have things ready lol. I guess most countries will follow on taxation on gambling as governments started realizing the potential revenue they could gain out of making gambling legal rather than being unable to control all gambling activities when gambling is not being run with the support of law.

[South Park]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

The issue they are not considering is that while traditional casinos are still a thing now online casinos are way more popular thanks to the pandemic, they are cheaper to run and can offer better bonuses to their clients which means that the owner of the casino can establish his casino in any jurisdiction that he may like in which this is easy and the taxes are low and still attract those local players and they can avoid paying those taxes that way, so despite the taxes being low at the same time it is doubtful how many online casinos will actually pay them.

[johhnyUA]

Yeah, imagine how cool it must have been to operate a grey/illegal casino and then you get the news that gambling is being legalized.

In Ukraine you just keep running your illegal casino, because the process of legalization is much more complicated than just keep everything as is. Not joke, real situation.

Others will have to set up everything while these illegal ones have things ready lol.

Yep. And this people, which running illegal casinos will open new, legal ones in hotels and special places. And still running their illegal counterparts.

[South Park]

Yeah, imagine how cool it must have been to operate a grey/illegal casino and then you get the news that gambling is being legalized. Others will have to set up everything while these illegal ones have things ready lol. I guess most countries will follow on taxation on gambling as governments started realizing the potential revenue they could gain out of making gambling legal rather than being unable to control all gambling activities when gambling is not being run with the support of law.

In fact it is not as obvious as you are making it seem, many illegal casinos may choose to remain that way as they will not have to follow any guideline regarding the fairness of their games or the security of their clients and even more importantly they may not like to pay the tax, in fact this is similar to what we see with prostitution, in the countries in which it has been made legal many people still refuse to do it legally as they will be taxed and they will have to reveal their status as prostitutes, which has a huge stigma no matter where you live.

[icopress]

If you do think that 10% is a huge amount I do think you have to read the full article where they state that for them it was a sum between 10-30% .

As noted above, only a very simple and transparent law will work, since the Ukrainian political system has long since rotted away, a system that is only meant to replenish the already fat pockets of oligarchs. There are really a lot of bookmakers in Ukraine, and I think probably even more than in England, but the highlight is that no matter what tax you set, the Ukrainian Tax Service has absolutely no resources to keep at least most of the bookmakers in check ...

[DrBeer]

In terms of taxation, Ukraine is a very "comfortable" country. The latest innovations related to the turnover of cryptocurrency - 10% tax rate on income from transactions with cryptocurrency is very soft! Plus, the tax system in Ukraine is also quite soft in relation to private entrepreneurship. For example, working in the IT field, as a private entrepreneur, I pay only 5% of the turnover! Or I can choose a different scheme - 3% + VAT 20% (as you understand this is value added tax, which, in fact, is simply added during the formation of the value, but requires additional accounting).
Regarding the gambling business, there is already a legislative base, there are special conditions, the market is being formalized and rebuilt after an unstable situation with this sector

[Kittygalore]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Why is the taxes shouldered by the gamblers? Shouldn't the gambling house be the one that's shouldering those things? Afaik, gambling shouldn't have any taxes when you're a player, either the chips got more expensive than the last but the players won't be directly involved with taxes.

[DrBeer]

....
Yep. And this people, which running illegal casinos will open new, legal ones in hotels and special places. And still running their illegal counterparts.

Let me disagree! If we take Kiev, for example, then most of the unofficial, semi-official and even official (which fell under the legal restriction) casinos, gambling halls and other things were CLOSED! Now there are a lot of premises on the first floors, they still wear the exterior decoration of the gaming halls, but they are already empty, and the premises are being rented / sold en masse. I will not say that this is a 100% process, but 90% + is still closed!
Not so long ago, I noticed the opening of a small game room disguised as a computer club (Kiev, in the Darnitsa area) - he called a police squad, a few days later the room was empty ...

[timerland]

This makes absolutely no sense and will clearly flop if implemented.

They think that this is enforceable in the long run but it really isn't - people will simply move to underground/black markets to get their bets processed.

I thought that Ukraine was somewhat progressive when it comes to these things given their recent attitude towards crypto - but I guess I thought wrong.

[Taskford]

Many gamblers stop playing because of the high tax rate because not everyone can afford it. Ukrainian president vladimir zelensky plans to legalize gambling in the country for which he has raised taxes I think that by increasing the amount of bonus for playing jaya gamblers will be able to play very easily. Enforcement officials follow violators without much encouragement and often cooperate with them and the state simply proposes a gambling tax in ukraine without losing any tax fees.

Why is the taxes shouldered by the gamblers? Shouldn't the gambling house be the one that's shouldering those things? Afaik, gambling shouldn't have any taxes when you're a player, either the chips got more expensive than the last but the players won't be directly involved with taxes.

I think gambling house have separate taxes to pay and it seems that they are targeting the gamblers since they can still generate an income if they win a profit from playing that's why some government think about taxing them. But if we really think deeply they shouldn't do this since imagine its huge burden to the gamblers since they are already losing a few bucks for the tax implemented and how much more if they are playing on their bad days for sure they will struggle to recover since taxes taken is already make the life of gambler more heavier.

[DrBeer]

This makes absolutely no sense and will clearly flop if implemented.

They think that this is enforceable in the long run but it really isn't - people will simply move to underground/black markets to get their bets processed.

I thought that Ukraine was somewhat progressive when it comes to these things given their recent attitude towards crypto - but I guess I thought wrong.

The legalization of such business areas (gambling) assumes a situation where both parties receive the expected benefits. But what happened in Ukraine until recently was a mess! It was possible, without any permits, to "quietly" rent a room, put gaming machines there, and without paying a penny of taxes, get very high profits! If we take as 100% all the gambling halls that were in Ukraine earlier, then approximately 50-70% existed actually outside the laws and registrations! And it shouldn't be like that - everyone pays taxes, everyone works openly. Moreover, such illegal gambling halls as a rule "belonged" to deputies, high officials in law enforcement agencies, and the like. individuals who, moreover, used their official position for illegal enrichment!

[pinggoki]

I think this ordinance will work well for Ukraine's economy considering they ranked #40 among Top 100 countries when it comes to game revenues from gambling sessions. I couldn't see why they took some time to post this bill to the respective authorities as it could work well for the country economically, and individually. I'm supposing imposing higher tax rates for every winnings or stakings will discourage people who would gamble for the winnings and not because they want to relax, therefore saving them all the trouble and hassle losing money you can't afford brings.

This makes absolutely no sense and will clearly flop if implemented.

They think that this is enforceable in the long run but it really isn't - people will simply move to underground/black markets to get their bets processed.

I thought that Ukraine was somewhat progressive when it comes to these things given their recent attitude towards crypto - but I guess I thought wrong.

The legalization of such business areas (gambling) assumes a situation where both parties receive the expected benefits. But what happened in Ukraine until recently was a mess! It was possible, without any permits, to "quietly" rent a room, put gaming machines there, and without paying a penny of taxes, get very high profits! If we take as 100% all the gambling halls that were in Ukraine earlier, then approximately 50-70% existed actually outside the laws and registrations! And it shouldn't be like that - everyone pays taxes, everyone works openly. Moreover, such illegal gambling halls as a rule "belonged" to deputies, high officials in law enforcement agencies, and the like. individuals who, moreover, used their official position for illegal enrichment!

This makes sense. Thanks for putting this into perspective. I guess along with this, there should be extensive operations to whittle down, if not completely eradicate illegal gambling operations within the country. Otherwise, as you have said, people will just resort to black market operations to have their bets made which is not good of course. These two activities should go hand-in-hand, matter of fact they should focus more on eradicating illegal gambling operations on their country in the first place.

[ene1980]

~
Yes, I meant the gambling sites will be the only ones who will pay taxes and let the gamblers enjoy their winning, and eventually they will still lose it when they come back. it's also easier to track the performance of the casino than the gamblers, and since casinos are profitable, they should only be the one who will pay, this way it will attract gamblers to gamble as they are getting real entertainment without tax liability.

Ukraine is not going to tax online gambling sites, which is an impossible task as there are many safe heavens they can move to. The tax will be levied on offline gambling casinos and stores and there is nothing is in taxing these casinos, as mentioned above by DrBeer there was no taxes levied upon them earlier and anyone could operate a casino and now they wanted to tax them and it is normal.