Is The Purpose of The Merit System Defeated?

[KingsDen]

I understood that the major purposes of the merit system is to ensure quality, uphold standard and standardize ranking.
If the above hold true, I have a proposal.

I propose that;
1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.
2. However, newbies should be allowed to read in all boards for learning purposes.
3. All other members save newbies can post in the Beginners and Help.
4. Every newbie should remain in this status for a period of 90days. After the expiration of 90days, the forum moderators shall examine the performance of every newbie, then immediately award a certain number of merits(Let's say 10, 20, 50 etc) according to the performance of the newbie in this 90days orientation period. Also place the user in any rank other than newbie according to the performance aswell.

Pros:
If this is implemented, we could have the following results
1. The rate of spamming will reduce drastically
2. The rate of plagiarism will reduce aswell.
3. This will curtail stagnation or abandonment of an account
4. This will help guide users on which boards to post, most often you will see a newbie posting a Beginners and help post in meta.
5. This will reduce the amount of none quality posts
6. It will also reduce off topic posts.
7. It will encourage the newbie to research and have good knowledge of the forum and Cryptocurrencies at large in order to be awarded higher merits and promoted to a good rank after the orientation period.
8. It will ease the moderation of the forum.
9. The discusions in the rest of the  boards would be interesting, technical and quality .
10. It will ensure the introduction of users with ample knowledge of the norms of the forum into the forum.

Cons:
1. It will limit the chances of a user in a campaign to complete his/her weekly task. However, I don't know if newbies involves in campaigns or not.

Thank you!

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[mocacinno]

What you propose is a modified newbie jail... Here's what Theymos said about this concept:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4538227.msg40849533#msg40849533

--snip--
Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

The low signal-to-noise is a real issue which seriously annoys me and is often on my mind. But as you mention, fixing it non-destructively is difficult.

So, the odds of this proposal being implemented are small...

[Charles-Tim]

<...>

Try to be an established member (senior, hero or legendary) before making this kind of post, you will be differently oriented at that time.

[mk4]

The wrong assumption here that just because one person has a "Newbie" rank, that it automatically means that he/she is a noob concerning Bitcoin. Always remember that every single Bitcoiner didn't gain their knowledge through Bitcointalk, because there are other huge Bitcoin communities online as well. Namely: Reddit and Twitter.

[Little Mouse]

1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

Someone might be a newbie in the forum but his/her knowledge can't be. They can be good knowledged in cryptocurrency than most of the senior/hero/legendary members of the forum. Wouldn’t that hurt the newbie if they are restricted?
Spam isn’t only done by newbie. Most campaigns require x amount of posts which indirectly are responsible for the spam.
I think current system is good but being a little more harsh on moderating or increasing the stuff would be good idea to prevent the spam.
Also, see what theymos think about newbie jail.

[Lucius]

1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

Only this first suggestion would create big problems for the forum, as this board is just meant for beginners to ask some basic questions - but specific questions and discussions still need to take place in their assigned boards. I think that such a restriction would discourage many beginners, especially those who want to offer or seek a service. Even if your proposal were implemented, 90 days is simply too much to limit someone to just one board - and moderators are not the ones to decide who qualifies to be a member of the forum or share merits with them.

The Merit system is very well-thought-out and for me personally it has done a lot of positives for the forum, although there will always be those who will not approve of it for some of their own reasons.

2. The rate of plagiarism will reduce aswell.

Anyone who wants to plagiarize will do so anywhere on the forum, I don't think the B&H board would be an exception. The only thing that would make sense is to forgive beginners the first such offense - but that would again require some kind of record and a lot of work for the moderators who are not too many anyway.

[dkbit98]

I propose that;
The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

This is so bad to propose something like things because if there is one place for newbies to write freely that is Beginners and Help section, especially coming from someone who registered in Bitcointalk forum on 28 May 2021  

Every newbie should remain in this status for a period of 90days. After the expiration of 90days, the forum moderators shall examine the performance of every newbie, then immediately award a certain number of merits(Let's say 10, 20, 50 etc) according to the performance of the newbie in this 90days orientation period. Also place the user in any rank other than newbie according to the performance aswell.

You must be crazy if you think moderators have enough time to investigate all posts from newbies, and btw you are also a newbie who is trying to write some suggestion bs posts just to earn some merit.
So fake and lame... one more goes on Ignore list.

[LoyceV]

1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

You do realize this would mean 75% of the topics you've created wouldn't exist if you had your way, right? Including the one I'm reading now.

Cons:
1. It will limit the chances of a user in a campaign to complete his/her weekly task. However, I don't know if newbies involves in campaigns or not.

You forget the real Bitcoin users who run into a real problem, and post on Bitcointalk for a solution. They won't find that solution on the "Beginners" board, they find it on the tech boards. Those real users shouldn't be restricted in any way, as they're the future of Bitcointalk.
The users who join for "campaigns" will keep doing so, with as many accounts as they can. The real user won't wait for 90 days before he can ask a question.

[joker_josue]

I propose that;
1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

If that rule was in effect, you couldn't have posted it here!
In other words, you are already breaking your own rule.

But luckily this rule doesn't exist, and it allowed you to share other ideas to the community. Do you see the advantage of not having these limitations?

[KingsDen]

I propose that;
1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

If that rule was in effect, you couldn't have posted it here!
In other words, you are already breaking your own rule.

But luckily this rule doesn't exist, and it allowed you to share other ideas to the community. Do you see the advantage of not having these limitations?

I understand, but whichever way, I would stil have made the post in Beginners and Help which still fits in.

[NotATether]

There's too many newbies and not enough mods to monitor them all (there's only a dozen or so staff) and although it's a paid job, moderators don't want to work all day examining newbies' posts since that won't leave them time for their work/personal lives, so this proposal will likely be rejected for this reason alone.

[acroman08]

-snip

this is a FREE forum and not a company. why make it so hard for newbies to participate in a discussion they are interested in? the reason why there are some restrictions to newbies is to at least lessen the spam and such, without actually heavily affecting newbies who are genuinely interested in bitcoin, cryptocurrency, or the forum. your suggestion will make it hard for them to participate in different discussions on different boards and will make their experience here in the forum unpleasant.

I understand, but whichever way, I would stil have made the post in Beginners and Help which still fits in.

META is created for the purpose of suggestions or anything that has something to do with the forum itself and this topic doesn't fit in beginners and help.

[tranthidung]

1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

Members who participate in the forum as newbies can probably be legendary members on other forums. Probably they are not newbies in cryptocurrency too.

Additionally, Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ presents board descriptions. If you read the section Guideline for threads, you will understand the restrictions you suggested is non-sense.

[Emanuelaeventry]

What you propose is a modified newbie jail... Here's what Theymos said about this concept:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4538227.msg40849533#msg40849533

--snip--
Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

The low signal-to-noise is a real issue which seriously annoys me and is often on my mind. But as you mention, fixing it non-destructively is difficult.

So, the odds of this proposal being implemented are small...

From themos Post I found a fact that the forum aren't really happy over any decision that will demand mod of post or topic or account banning. Forum mission is to encourage everyone to be in the ecosystem.


The thought and idea people has towards merit is just too adamant that got me thinking like what do users really think is the purpose of existence in the forum? Merit is not a title but an encouragement to user with a helpful and quality post. But many users misunderstood this fact and begins to abuse the forum simply because the needed merits.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Bitcoin_Arena]

I propose that;
1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.
2. However, newbies should be allowed to read in all boards for learning purposes.
3. All other members save newbies can post in the Beginners and Help.
4. Every newbie should remain in this status for a period of 90days. After the expiration of 90days, the forum moderators shall examine the performance of every newbie, then immediately award a certain number of merits(Let's say 10, 20, 50 etc) according to the performance of the newbie in this 90days orientation period. Also place the user in any rank other than newbie according to the performance aswell.

I bet if you were a newbie who had just registered and found such restrictions, chances are very high that you would have given up contributing to the forum. Hell, I almost gave up on the forum due to the merit restrictions that were new to me at the time.

If you have noticed, a good number of new accounts are created to ask questions about certain things like Trading, mining, Bitcoin wallets, transactions etc. and open up scam accusations. Now all that is supposed to be posted in specific boards. Imagine all that clutter in Beginners and Help board.

How do you expect to determine some's performance if they are going to post in Beginners and help only?

[Rikafip]

You must be crazy if you think moderators have enough time to investigate all posts from newbies, and btw you are also a newbie who is trying to write some suggestion bs posts just to earn some merit.
So fake and lame... one more goes on Ignore list.

We are now getting this on a daily basis, newbie accounts with very limited bitcointalk forum experience, suggesting changes that were asked numerous times before. How crazy is that, to think that you can give some solid advice to forum staff after few weeks of being active on the forum. Meh...

[lovesmayfamilis]

I liked points 2 and 4.
Tell me, how can we prevent someone from reading something?
The forum is available without registration.
And point 4 is generally a masterpiece.
Just take a look at how many newbies come to the forum and then the moderators have to check each one? Lol
Well, on merits, this is generally brilliant, especially if we assume that some accounts cannot receive one merit within 5 years

You must be crazy if you think moderators have enough time to investigate all posts from newbies, and btw you are also a newbie who is trying to write some suggestion bs posts just to earn some merit.
So fake and lame... one more goes on Ignore list.

We are now getting this on a daily basis, newbie accounts with very limited bitcointalk forum experience, suggesting changes that were asked numerous times before. How crazy is that, to think that you can give some solid advice to forum staff after few weeks of being active on the forum. Meh...

Two accounts supporting this idea have already been identified as alternative accounts that like to talk to themselves. But the OP needs to be checked again, he probably also belongs to this gang.

Forum mission is to encourage everyone to be in the ecosystem.

Bitcointalk forum is an organized ecosystem

[The Sceptical Chymist]

After the expiration of 90days, the forum moderators shall examine the performance of every newbie, then immediately award a certain number of merits(Let's say 10, 20, 50 etc) according to the performance of the newbie in this 90days orientation period.

All of the rest of your suggestion would never come to pass, but the above is the true deal-killer, since that's not what moderators do.  \

Mods on bitcointalk basically put out fires, because there aren't enough of them to deal with all of the garbage posts and other rule violations that happen every day--if I understand it correctly, they basically rely on reports from members in order for them to see what's going wrong.  And even if that's not entirely true, it's mostly true, and there's no way in hell Theymos is going to put the burden of monitoring all of the newbies on the forum (which increases daily) to make sure they're "progressing".

Besides, most of this has been suggested before anyway, well before you registered here.  As was pointed out, Theymos isn't bringing back the newbie jail system.  I also think the merit system is doing just fine, as long as merit sources keep doing their jobs and as long as non-merit sources keep meriting posts they like.

[EYC_ONE]

I think there is no need to do this. Because every board has rules. Every new member is advised to read the rules well. Almost everywhere. Those who do not follow the rules are punished. Many spam, copy and paste people are banned. So every person must read the rules and then post them.

Note: as soon as each new member joins, he is given a message. The rules should be introduced.

[KingsDen]

Tell me, how can we prevent someone from reading something?

The OP did not say anyone should be prevented from reading. It says newbies would be allowed to read in every board for learning purposes and allowed to post only in Beginners and Help.

But the OP needs to be checked again, he probably also belongs to this gang.

Some other users also threw this allegation at me. But I don't understand why it should be. Is it that my post is egocentric or above what a newbie should post.
If the later is valid, that means the OP is validated. Maybe because I didn't undergo the proposed orientation to know the kind of post to make as a newbie.
Please sir, I am just few weeks old in this platform, help me to grow. Thank you sir.