Is The Purpose of The Merit System Defeated?

[joker_josue]

Please sir, I am just few weeks old in this platform, help me to grow. Thank you sir.

This is the point. You can post anywhere, it will help to grow and learn.
Because many who are experienced, don't always go to the beginners' tab. So if you have a mining question, go to the mining tab, and so on. In these places you will find what you need.

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[nutildah]

I am just few weeks old in this platform

Then why are you already posting in Meta? If you're not the slightest bit interested in learning about or discussing Bitcoin, you should probably leave.

The merit system does defeat itself when it leads to the formation of threads like this one, threads that serve no purpose other than to get merit.

Your very first post is about what newbies should do to get merit.  

The jokes people play to get back into this forum...

@Quickteller I am definitely going to work harder.  I have learnt to report good post for it to be merited. I also learn to copy down the post link in a notepad pending when I have sendable merit.  Thank you all, I am grateful.

There's only one account who has ever made this particular spelling error on the forum. This better not be who I think it is.  

[Rikafip]

Please sir, I am just few weeks old in this platform, help me to grow. Thank you sir.

In two weeks since you created this account, you managed to make 12 threads. This has to be some kind of record.

Then why are you already posting in Meta? If you're not the slightest bit interested in learning about or discussing Bitcoin, you should probably leave.

He clearly said what's his goal in this forum in his first post here. He came for merit, and consequently spot in the signature campaign. As I told him in that first topic he created, he is simply fishing too hard for merit, and that will bite him in the ass.

For the newbie, I believe most of us are sharing in my wish. My wish to become a legend, a legend with so much merits and positive trust

[The Sceptical Chymist]

But the OP needs to be checked again, he probably also belongs to this gang.

Some other users also threw this allegation at me. But I don't understand why it should be. Is it that my post is egocentric or above what a newbie should post.

Your post wasn't really egocentric so much as--and I don't mean this as an insult--ignorant.  And by that I mean that your suggestions were made without knowing that many of them have been made and rejected previously, and from what you wrote it's obvious you don't understand what the moderators here do and don't do (and will never do). 

When you register on a forum and start making recommendations without having all of the facts, it does come off as being a bit egotistical and presumptuous, but I don't fault you for seeing where some of the problems on the forum are and your willingness to speak up in order to fix them.  The problem is that the community doesn't have much of a say in how the forum is run.  It's pretty much all up to Theymos, and he's decided not to bring back the newbie jail and not to restrict them any more than the merit system currently does. 

In other words, the merit system was Theymos's solution to the plague of newbie BS that was at its peak in December 2017.  I think things have improved significantly since then--you weren't here in 2017, so you don't really have a sense of how bad things had gotten and how much the merit system cleaned up the forum.  Things certainly aren't perfect now, but it's better than it used to be.

[EYC_ONE]

Please sir, I am just few weeks old in this platform, help me to grow. Thank you sir.

I think you have posted for some merit. I am also new here. You are also new. We have to understand the forum issue first. Did the application you made have the rules of your application? No, because your ID is less than 90 days, you have got a lot of merit. You have posted many. Everyone wants a new day just like you want to enjoy your talent for a few days. So the forum does not want to follow these rules or your application is not successful.

[nutildah]

Gross. You're in the exact same boat as OP, and you've been plagiarizing since your first post.

*BTC surveys=


You should know the following things before you serve
*Background   
*Creation   
*Growth   
*Prices and value history   
*Forks   
*Regulatory issues   
*Bitcoin faucets   
*Theft and exchange shutdowns   
*Taxation and regulation   
etc

Your list looks familiar. Oh, that's because you copied straight down the list from the table of contents for the Wikipedia History of Bitcoin article.



Why didn't you include Arbitrary blockchain content? Lol.

So actually you're in a worse boat than OP. There's no reason for you to be here. Please don't come back under a new account.

[Igebotz]

Imagine going to a mall for the first time and the next day you start advising the manager to restrict selling candies to teenagers isn't that ridiculous? You want to reduce newbies posting right just because you want merit to be allocated to y'all while spamming the B&H, and for your information not all newbies are crypto amateur and not all legendary are crypto expert. If you want merit work hard and earned it and stop wasting your time trying to change the forum rules

[GeorgeJohn]

This is the point. You can post anywhere, it will help to grow and learn.
Because many who are experienced, don't always go to the beginners' tab. So if you have a mining question, go to the mining tab, and so on. In these places you will find what you need.

Your right, because newbies are not limited to post to any board, because going different location of the community for conversations will enable them to have versatile knowledge, even i could remember when i was a newbie, i devoted my time to read across the boards in order to understand the concept of the community fully, and when this happens i started earning merit, so in summary a  new user are meant to penetrate to any board  and acclimatize with their subjects so that when making a topic he/ her will know the exact board to Post it.

[Welsh]

Besides, all of your proposes doesn't actually reduce spam, well to a certain degree it might. However, what it is most likely to do is concentrate the spam in one section, which means that the section becomes a rather annoying section to read, which would probably reduce the amount of users actually contributing to the section. I actually quite like B&H current state. There is spam, and wrongly posted threads there, but it isn't too big of an issue. We could probably do with a bit more reports in that section, but currently there does seem to be a big emphasis on helping newbies out in that section, and I would prefer us to be more welcoming to new users, than too hostile by limiting their actions based on the few bad users we get.

I used to quite like the idea of a modified newbie jail, instead I would probably opt for a shadow ban system, where new users posts are manually approved by moderators. This could potentially be implemented with merit, and once they have earned 1 merit, or whatever amount that would be acceptable, they would no longer need to be approved.

It creates a little extra work for moderators, and staff users, but the overall improvement to the rest of the forum should be worth it. The only unfortunate side of that is, some newbies will be confused by it, and would likely try posting the same reply/thread several times or create threads asking why their post isn't visible. However, if we treat it as; a shadow ban, which the logged in user sees their post then there shouldn't be too many issues. If we have enough activity between moderators, and can cover all time zones, then there shouldn't be too much of a delay that effects new accounts negatively.

[Pmalek]

Let's break it down step by step:

I propose that;
1. The newbies should be restricted to posting only in Beginners and Help Board.

No. Newbie restrictions and a newbie jail is not welcome. Everyone should be allowed to post anywhere they want if this forum is to keep its importance in the future.

2. However, newbies should be allowed to read in all boards for learning purposes.

The forum allows you to read its content even without being logged in, so the rank doesn't matter.

4. Every newbie should remain in this status for a period of 90days. After the expiration of 90days, the forum moderators shall examine the performance of every newbie, then immediately award a certain number of merits(Let's say 10, 20, 50 etc) according to the performance of the newbie in this 90days orientation period. Also place the user in any rank other than newbie according to the performance aswell.

This is a discussion board. People are not applying for a visa or studying for their master's degree. Who would be interested in going through all that to become a member here? The moderators have enough to do without giving them the task to check the post quality of each and every newbie. All members (no matter their ranks) should get merits in the same way: Based on the quality of their posts. 

Pros:
If this is implemented, we could have the following results
1. The rate of spamming will reduce drastically

In other parts of the forum, yes, but it will increase in the B&H board.

2. The rate of plagiarism will reduce aswell.

Limiting newbies to the B&H board wont reduce the number of plagiarized posts, but it will make them easier to find. 

4. This will help guide users on which boards to post, most often you will see a newbie posting a Beginners and help post in meta.

Such posts can be moved to the appropriate sub-boards. What if the newbie posts in a foreign language, starts a discussion about an altcoin/ICO, starts a scam thread, etc. All those would go in B&H as well?

5. This will reduce the amount of none quality posts

Highly unlikely. 

6. It will also reduce off topic posts.

It will increase off-topic posts because all threads by newbies will be posted in the same sub.

7. It will encourage the newbie to research and have good knowledge of the forum and Cryptocurrencies at large in order to be awarded higher merits and promoted to a good rank after the orientation period.

it will result in newbies no longer being interested in joining Bitcointalk and spending their time elsewhere. 

8. It will ease the moderation of the forum.

Newbies aren't the only ones that need to be moderated, all members do, including legendaries.

9. The discusions in the rest of the  boards would be interesting, technical and quality .

A higher rank does not equal greater competence and technical knowledge. Many high ranked members got their merits airdropped and didn't earned them by being merited by other forum members.

Cons:
1. It will limit the chances of a user in a campaign to complete his/her weekly task. However, I don't know if newbies involves in campaigns or not.

The admins don't care about the bounties and signature campaigns members participate in.

[libert19]

Newbie restrictions are fine as it is, 'analysing' performance of newbie is stupid idea and will just put extra work on relevant parties.

[FIFA worldcup]

Newbie restrictions are fine as it is, 'analysing' performance of newbie is stupid idea and will just put extra work on relevant parties.

Analyzing the performance of newbie after certain number of days is a bad idea. We are not here on the job or on the probation period where by our performance is judged after 90 days.
If you notice newbie is shit posting or not posting up to the standard, just report it. There are enough tools in the forum which won't let a shit poster rank up.

[Lorence.xD]

Try to be an established member (senior, hero or legendary) before making this kind of post, you will be differently oriented at that time.

I don't think it's a good idea though, it kind of sounds like it invalidates the opinion of the other users below Senior Member like myself. But you are right that they should be familiar with the in and outs of this forum before saying anything.

[Charles-Tim]

Try to be an established member (senior, hero or legendary) before making this kind of post, you will be differently oriented at that time.

I don't think it's a good idea though, it kind of sounds like it invalidates the opinion of the other users below Senior Member like myself. But you are right that they should be familiar with the in and outs of this forum before saying anything.

Full members are established members too already, that does not mean they do not have their own opinion to suggest on this forum, the opinion can even be welcomed, also do not get me wrong, even newbies and any other ranks can suggest their own opinion, if what is suggested is genuine and welcomed, I will not make such comment, but it is not welcomed as established members will see it, and this is common to newbies and junior members and normal member rank to make certain suggestions that won't be welcomed here. So, telling them in such thread to be a somewhat an established member will help them to know more and in which they will have different opinion at the time.

[EYC_ONE]

Gross. You're in the exact same boat as OP, and you've been plagiarizing since your first post.

I was new then, I could not get up after understanding the rules. Now I have fully understood the rules. Will you think a little about your trust? Can you see my profile again?
my profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3332840

[FIFA worldcup]

Gross. You're in the exact same boat as OP, and you've been plagiarizing since your first post.

I was new then, I could not get up after understanding the rules. Now I have fully understood the rules. Will you think a little about your trust? Can you see my profile again?
my profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3332840

Don't you think copying other people work and posting them as your own is not right legally. Plagiarism is not forum specific but a universal rule.
I doubt if nutildah will remove it or make it neutral. If this happens, then everyone will come up with their applications.

[nutildah]

I was new then, I could not get up after understanding the rules. Now I have fully understood the rules. Will you think a little about your trust? Can you see my profile again?
my profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3332840

No, you weren't new then. You keep coming back under new accounts. The first thing you do is look for merit.

Your (new) first post is telling another member with 480 posts what they should be doing.

Your second post is telling people not to copy/paste.

You haven't spent enough time learning about Bitcoin or the forum to add anything of value here.

Try harder.

[KingsDen]

Let's break it down step by step:

Thank you Pmalek, your post is a real definition of the word "discussion".
I like your method of discussion. If you agree, you agree with reasons. When you disagree you still outline your reasons rationally. This gesture would be welcoming to new users like us. It will not only give sense of belonging, but will foster knowledge acquisition.

Unlike some who will attack this way; "You must be crazy if you think the moderators have the time to check all the post" etc.

[nutildah]

Isn't it great that we have this leadership-charged generation of newbies  incoming to remind us of what we should or shouldn't be doing. 

I'm bleedingly late with work but this is too weird to just ignore. This is your first post.

I made this post in two categories; first to encourage the newbie and second to advice the old members.

Why would you do that? You weren't even a Newbie at that point as you hadn't posted yet. You were Brand New.  Not only is it highly unlikely as a Brand New user that you have advice to give "old members" of the forum, but you should realize that coming hot out of the gate with this approach

1) reflects a dismissal of the knowledge or competence of every single forum member with one or more posts
2) suggests you're not actually a Newbie.

Here's a couple secrets for not getting caught right away next time:

 - Don't start posting instructions on what the forum should be doing right out the gate, in your very first post. Usually a first post is something like "Titcoin to the moon!" or... "Why won't my Electrum wallet connect to the internet?" or even "Hey what the hell happened to my shipment of Black Arrow miners???"
 - Don't start posting in Meta right away or engage in obvious merit-seeking behavior. It means you have developed an understanding of where people post and what they post in order to get merits, in all likelihood due to prior experience with the forum.

For the Old members, I will liken the forum to a building from foundation to roofing.
The building at the foundation stage does not make it less building, but it is the stage at which the engineer puts much efforts and expertise. Take the newbie as the foundation, help us grow, for if the foundation is wrongly laid, it will have a significant negative effects at the completion stage.

OK KingsDen, I will take your message to heart. You sir, however, are no Newbie, sir.

Good Day.



Haha actually I'm not mad if you want to carry on, its entertaining. Couldn't quite find the GIF to express myself but close enough.

[KingsDen]

Usually a first post is something like "Titcoin to the moon!" or... "Why won't my Electrum wallet connect to the internet?" or even "Hey what the hell happened to my shipment of Black Arrow miners???"

Sir, the above sample topics you listed as what a newbie should post does not relate to me. I was not a newbie with zero crypto knowledge. So, I shouldn't on my first post begin to make topics that are not peculiar to me? If the above topics are what newbies should post, I am sorry I was not aware. Your statement however is in support of the proposal of the OP(Orientation for Newbies).
Assuming I was informed that that is how first posts look like, I would have started with a topic like "Hello House! Please help me, what is Bitcoin?"

- Don't start posting in Meta right away or engage in obvious merit-seeking behavior. It means you have developed an understanding of where people post and what they post in order to get merits, in all likelihood due to prior experience with the forum.

Sir, I dedicated time to reading in different boards without contributing, especially as a newbie? That was how I got some information.
Sir, the forum is user friendly?. Such that at every board, there is a mini board or what I can call board description, which states the kinds of posts to be made in such a board. As a newbie I read the descriptions before posting.
I have no prior experience. Few weeks of knowing this forum has left me in total regret why I haven't known this forum since 2010 I started wasting my time on social media (especially Facebook)
However, sir I appreciate your directions and advice, but it rather demoralised me instead of encouraging me. I have many things in my mind to share and ask, but it seems I can be using PM to get some answers and directions, because I am unsure of the post to make that will fit without misunderstanding. Thank you!