George Soros and Bezos have paid almost zero taxes

[Vishnu.Reang]

Someone mentioned a wealth tax not working in France and that was probably because people can just hop country within Europe and kinda internationally too.

France used the typical socialist approach, by just imposing sky high taxes without thinking about the practicality. When Hollande was the president, the rate of income tax was raised to 75% for those who earn more than 1 million Euro. The tax collection actually went down, because many of those who earn at this level simply moved to the other EU nations. Wealth tax is another controversial topic. In many of the countries, it is launched with a lot of fanfare, but the actual tax collection remains at negligible levels.

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[Silberman]

It is curious how some of these guys are in theory favourable to increasing the tax for "the rich". I guess their rationale is that they do not really fall into that category, that is, they are not in the 10% or 15% richest but rather a different class of the 1% of the 1% of the richest, which will retain all manner of loopholes and tricks for avoidance that are only available when you can spend millions in making sure you do not pay a dime more than strictly required.

I am now on the countdown to hear Elon brag about him paying much more taxes than the others 

Those that are super rich understand that it does not matter what kind of law is passed they are always going to find a way to avoid taxes because this is why they pay super lawyers and accountants to make all kind of fiscal entities that helps them to avoid taxes, this is why I have always been on favor of an extremely simple tax system that applies to everyone and there are no exceptions, even in that system the rich will still avoid paying taxes but there will be less incentive to do so.

[jaberwock]

Some areas like Scandinavia have done well to police online webservices like amazon (by banning some of their operations - example below) but they still don't have much control other than completely blocking them or completely allowing them. I think the US could directly pass laws on amazon's working conditions too for example.

Example - Iceland and Sweden require a democratic union to exist for a company that takes on employees there. Amazon don't want to have to deal with this and thus have to rely on other countries' distribution centres and postal systems in the nordics.

If bezos moved amazon to the Netherlands and started allowing cannabis to be sold internationally, it'd be more difficult and delayed to try to ban this than if it was still headquartered in the US.

Someone mentioned a wealth tax not working in France and that was probably because people can just hop country within Europe and kinda internationally too.

It is not about getting lower taxes to keep those companies in your country, you can lose those companies to other nations that have lower tax rates, but if those companies want to work with you then they have to pay those taxes, if you are a rich nation then you can put in a ton of taxes because people will want to sell something to you and then they will maybe charge higher price and then pay more taxes and still end up with more money.

Which one would you prefer, exclusively sell to Norway with 50% of your income go to taxes? Or selling to Bangladesh with 0% taxes? I would personally pick Norway. That means it is not about lower taxes, it is about having a nation that has leverage, if you have leverage against these companies then they will one way or another pay that tax to you and that is what these rich democratic socialist nations in Europe does to companies.

[DrBeer]

I would add to the title "George Soros and Bezos have paid almost zero taxes" also "while journalists manipulate data in 185% of their information materials." When you read such materials, a double feeling arises - either journalists, to put it mildly, are mentally retarded and absolutely do not understand the topic, or they deliberately manipulate data, pull out some parts from the general picture and present them as the main essence, twisting the information in one piece and adding "artistic fantasy" ...

[just_Alice]

As I understand, you're talking strictly about wealth tax here, right? On the one hand, yes, it seems somewhat unfair and even strange that the richest men in the world pay fewer taxes in % than average people. But on the other hand, they bring huge money from the business they create in the form of income taxes, as their companies are still obliged to pay taxes. In addition, they create thousands of working places, reducing the unemployment level and, thus, have a rather positive effect on the economy.

The question is not only regarding the wealth tax (in the US, they don't have the wealth tax anyway). From the table, it looks like the billionaires have used various legal avenues to avoid paying the income tax and capital gains tax. Else how can you explain Bloomberg paying a tax of $292 million on a realized income of $10 billion? They are using various loopholes that suits them. And the Biden administration just want to increase tax rates to the right, left and center, without removing these loopholes. That means that the billionaires will continue to avoid paying taxes, and at the same time those who are in the upper middle class will see an increase in their tax liabilities.

Yeah, you're right, I only focused on the wealth. The $292M tax from the total income of $10B is very low, that's like slightly above 2%. That's pretty lame, in such a case. I always thought that some billionaires are doing a great thing running huge companies because they bring a lot of revenue to the government. But now, despite the fact about creating workspaces, which I pointed out earlier, they seem pretty useless if they avoid taxes like that. Such a disappointment...

[Sithara007]

I would add to the title "George Soros and Bezos have paid almost zero taxes" also "while journalists manipulate data in 185% of their information materials." When you read such materials, a double feeling arises - either journalists, to put it mildly, are mentally retarded and absolutely do not understand the topic, or they deliberately manipulate data, pull out some parts from the general picture and present them as the main essence, twisting the information in one piece and adding "artistic fantasy" ...

Where's the manipulation here? None of these billionaires have claimed that any of the data being revealed is wrong. The reaction from Mitch McConnell was to demand the arrest of the individuals who leaked the information, rather than looking in to how these billionaires avoided their taxes. I have a big question here: Why should the tax returns be kept secret? What is the issue, if they are revealed? Ordinary people like me has the right to know how much tax these billionaires are paying. Because I am paying tax at a rate which is much higher than many of these billionaires.

[Xinarae*]

George soros bezos other billionaires avoid income tax the reported weight is that some of these richest americans have paid zero income tax in just a few years and included social and financial giant george soros. One of the richest people in multiple tax proposals pays much lower than the official 3 percent rate on maximum income if their taxes are compared if forbes magazine reports that their wealth has increased in one year. I think they paid this zero tax on purpose.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

This is outrages, how can they play the system like that? This is really sad for all the normal worker who have to pay 50% of their income as taxes to the government. These Billionaires can definitely afford to pay taxes. I understand that a wealth tax is a controversial topic,but if you own more than 100 million, than you should definitely give something back to the country you live in. Your wealth is coming from the people who buy your products.

I think the reason for that is that they have a loophole to exploit and they don't exactly lack any money to do those loopholes, remember that charity is a big tax write off for them, it is unfair yes but the problem is that the people who made the laws got bribed into making it possible for the elite to evade taxes legally and it's not easy to remove those laws because these elites are going to fight for it to stay there because they lobbied for it to be built.

[bryant.coleman]

I think the reason for that is that they have a loophole to exploit and they don't exactly lack any money to do those loopholes, remember that charity is a big tax write off for them, it is unfair yes but the problem is that the people who made the laws got bribed into making it possible for the elite to evade taxes legally and it's not easy to remove those laws because these elites are going to fight for it to stay there because they lobbied for it to be built.

The loopholes will be there, because many of the charity donations are just a cover used to bribe politicians. Many of the NGOs, which receive these donations have close associates of various politicians as the board members. In other cases, the bribing is more direct. For example, Hillary Clinton and her husband received a total of $153 million as speaking fees during 2001-16. And a large part of this contribution came from the organizations which received charity donations from the billionaires.

The best example is Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF). Originally Bill Gates owned around 10% of the shares of MSFT. He was never taxed for this holding, because he never sold any of the shares recently. Now comes the interesting part. Bill Gates has transferred most of his shares to BMGF, which means that these shares will never ever be taxed. Just from BMGF, the federal government lost around $20 billion in taxes. Now I am not going to deny that the BMGF did a lot of good work in places like Africa and South Asia. But at least a part of the money was used for salaries and for organizing conferences (indirect ways to bribe politicians).

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

I think the reason for that is that they have a loophole to exploit and they don't exactly lack any money to do those loopholes, remember that charity is a big tax write off for them, it is unfair yes but the problem is that the people who made the laws got bribed into making it possible for the elite to evade taxes legally and it's not easy to remove those laws because these elites are going to fight for it to stay there because they lobbied for it to be built.

The loopholes will be there, because many of the charity donations are just a cover used to bribe politicians. Many of the NGOs, which receive these donations have close associates of various politicians as the board members. In other cases, the bribing is more direct. For example, Hillary Clinton and her husband received a total of $153 million as speaking fees during 2001-16. And a large part of this contribution came from the organizations which received charity donations from the billionaires.

The best example is Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF). Originally Bill Gates owned around 10% of the shares of MSFT. He was never taxed for this holding, because he never sold any of the shares recently. Now comes the interesting part. Bill Gates has transferred most of his shares to BMGF, which means that these shares will never ever be taxed. Just from BMGF, the federal government lost around $20 billion in taxes. Now I am not going to deny that the BMGF did a lot of good work in places like Africa and South Asia. But at least a part of the money was used for salaries and for organizing conferences (indirect ways to bribe politicians).

That's why I said that the elites are lobbying, which is just a complicated and fancy term for bribe but it's not just any bribe though, for example, the company wants to do something and the lawmakers don't budge then the company will pull out their factories causing people to be unemployed so it's basically a limbo that both sides fight be on top. At least, Bill has something to show for his donations and charities unlike those with really obscure ones that you aren't sure if there really is a help.

[DrBeer]

I would add to the title "George Soros and Bezos have paid almost zero taxes" also "while journalists manipulate data in 185% of their information materials." When you read such materials, a double feeling arises - either journalists, to put it mildly, are mentally retarded and absolutely do not understand the topic, or they deliberately manipulate data, pull out some parts from the general picture and present them as the main essence, twisting the information in one piece and adding "artistic fantasy" ...

Where's the manipulation here? None of these billionaires have claimed that any of the data being revealed is wrong. The reaction from Mitch McConnell was to demand the arrest of the individuals who leaked the information, rather than looking in to how these billionaires avoided their taxes. I have a big question here: Why should the tax returns be kept secret? What is the issue, if they are revealed? Ordinary people like me has the right to know how much tax these billionaires are paying. Because I am paying tax at a rate which is much higher than many of these billionaires.

Manipulation is that information is given "torn" from the general picture, and presented in a purely non-negative form. There are a lot of solutions to optimize taxes - from registering a company in countries with a more acceptable tax burden, to "barter" solutions with the state - for example, a tax exemption of 10 million dollars is given, but the company is building several schools and or hospitals for this amount (estimated cost) and transfers them to state ownership. These are just quick examples.
Why is the tax return hidden? It's hard for me to say, but are we talking about a business that pays taxes or an ultimate beneficiary? I am not familiar with the legislation of a particular state or states, I will say that in our country all data on the tax return of all citizens are legally open. But to be honest - for example, the largest businessmen declare income, but it is not indicative, the value of the assets they own and the turnover (profit, income, costs, taxes, ...) of their companies are more indicative.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Why is the tax return hidden? It's hard for me to say, but are we talking about a business that pays taxes or an ultimate beneficiary? I am not familiar with the legislation of a particular state or states, I will say that in our country all data on the tax return of all citizens are legally open. But to be honest - for example, the largest businessmen declare income, but it is not indicative, the value of the assets they own and the turnover (profit, income, costs, taxes, ...) of their companies are more indicative.

There is no point in asking the tax returns of private companies to be made public. But IMO, there is nothing wrong, if we ask the tax returns for the individuals to be revealed to the public. At least they should reveal the annual income and the tax that was paid on this income. I don't want a detailed breakdown of the source of income. At least those who have a net wealth of $1 billion or more should reveal these figures. Ordinary people like us pay 30% or 40% of our salary as taxes. We have the right to know how much these people are paying.

[stompix]

Someone mentioned a wealth tax not working in France and that was probably because people can just hop country within Europe and kinda internationally too.

I'm one of those mentioning France twice and indeed didn't actually happen because of the EU free movement alone, many have fled to a lot of other countries outside Europe and decided to keep only their business there as shareholders. There is no country in this world that will not welcome a billionaire who says, look I plan on living here, but a few hundred million in your banks, buy a lot of property and employ a lot of fo people here, every country nightmare is capital outflow, capital inflow is for some more like the philosopher's stone, a lot of countries try to sell only their citizenship for a few hundred thousands euros, imagine what they will do for millions.

And you can't stop them, doing this will simply make a lot of people stop investing in your country, who the hell is going to bring in money when he knows he can't take the profits out? A lot more countries in Europe used to have this wealth tax, many have dropped it, some have just modified it to tax only some of the wealth but the trend is clear, taxing in excess wealth will lead to not having anything to tax in the long run.

But IMO, there is nothing wrong, if we ask the tax returns for the individuals to be revealed to the public. . We have the right to know how much these people are paying.

Please let us know how much you made last year and what you paid in tax and how much crypto you own and how much profits and taxed you have earned and paid from them. We have to know, right?

I have a big question here: Why should the tax returns be kept secret? What is the issue, if they are revealed? Ordinary people like me has the right to know how much tax these billionaires are paying. Because I am paying tax at a rate which is much higher than many of these billionaires.

Same for you, please make your IRS filings public, why should yours be a secret?

[speedy963]

I don't understand why people make this a big deal, if you want to be rich, you need to be smart, these people employed huge number of people and also contribute to society through their foundations, who do you trust to do more to the society, bureaucrat or these billionaires

Makes sense, but the problem is that most of the time, these billionaires are the ones controlling the governments. May sound like your typical conspiracy theory but considering how these people can get away with just about anything due to their money and influence, it wouldn't be too far stretched to believe that some if not all, are the ones who sponsored politicians behind the scenes and put them in place so that these billionaires can control them at will.

[arallmuus]

may sound like your typical conspiracy theory but considering how these people can get away with just about anything due to their money and influence, it wouldn't be too far stretched to believe that some if not all, are the ones who sponsored politicians behind the scenes and put them in place so that these billionaires can control them at will.

It does sounds like a silly conspiracy theory. These people are not getting away with it , in fact they are giving more to the society. Look, the fact that they employed alot of people and keep on expanding their business to employ alot more actually benefit the country alot more compare with giving raw cash in form of taxes. It will takes years for the government to use that money to build some company that would benefit people by employing them.

Everybody should do their fair share for the country and these guys literally have done theirs which is why the country favours them by giving them better treatment.

[AndySt]

may sound like your typical conspiracy theory but considering how these people can get away with just about anything due to their money and influence, it wouldn't be too far stretched to believe that some if not all, are the ones who sponsored politicians behind the scenes and put them in place so that these billionaires can control them at will.

It does sounds like a silly conspiracy theory. These people are not getting away with it , in fact they are giving more to the society. Look, the fact that they employed alot of people and keep on expanding their business to employ alot more actually benefit the country alot more compare with giving raw cash in form of taxes. It will takes years for the government to use that money to build some company that would benefit people by employing them.
Everybody should do their fair share for the country and these guys literally have done theirs which is why the country favours them by giving them better treatment.

This is not a conspiracy theory, but quite an everyday reality, especially since in the United States of America lobbying is quite an official activity and you can quite officially read what articles of laws corporations spent money on in their lobbying activities among legislators. Also, let's distinguish between the activities of corporations for the benefit or harm of the economy and how the top officials of these corporations pay taxes on their tens and hundreds of billions of dollars of income. We should not idealize them to such an extent, we just need to be realistic and understand what an unfair world we live in at times.

[tabas]

I don't understand why people make this a big deal,

It is a big deal because they should be the first ones that are responsible for paying high income taxes.

if you want to be rich, you need to be smart, these people employed huge number of people and also contribute to society through their foundations, who do you trust to do more to the society, bureaucrat or these billionaires

You're right that they employ thousands of people but that doesn't mean that they can pay little or evade taxes. I think these cases are always normal. I've been seeing such in the past on TV when I was still on my teenage days that there were reports like this.

[Sithara007]

I have a big question here: Why should the tax returns be kept secret? What is the issue, if they are revealed? Ordinary people like me has the right to know how much tax these billionaires are paying. Because I am paying tax at a rate which is much higher than many of these billionaires.

Same for you, please make your IRS filings public, why should yours be a secret?

I don't have any issue in making my tax return public (I am a citizen and resident of India). For last year, I haven't taken any exemption on my income tax and my taxable income was equal to my salary (I opted for the option to have lower taxes if the tax return is filed without exemptions. Those from India would be able to understand). I don't have anything to be afraid about my tax return and I am ready to make it public. I still don't understand why people are so upset about revealing their annual income and tax liability.

[Lorence.xD]

They have lobbied the government and they have a lot of charities that they have donated to for their tax write offs so there's no surprises that they didn't pay their taxes. It's unfair to us in the lower point of the pyramid but I don't think that we can do much about it.

[jrrsparkles]

The fact is rivh people knows how to avoid paying the taxes which is legally right and one who have skills to do that will do it as long as they can do, if you are an investor or businessman you have high chances and lot of ways to report the earnings into the expenses and avoid paying the taxes whereas a salaried person has no way other than reporting their actual income and pay the taxes accordingly.