George Soros and Bezos have paid almost zero taxes

[Snappycoco]

This is how the world works. Poor are getting poorer and rich are getting richer and its all because they know the secrets of taxation. They probably reading and practicing how to avoid taxes legally. Rich people really hated taxes while poor people and middle income earners are suffering from this taxes.

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[Sithara007]

Also Loopholes aren't always intentional but the laws are so complex that loopholes are automatically formed. Trust me writing a law is much more difficult than you think.

Most of the loopholes that are being used by these billionaires are not present in the original tax code. They were mostly added in the 1980s and 1990s. And I am surprised with your lenient view on the $20 billion tax avoidance by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill Gates may not use the proceedings for his own personal use. But the truth is that he caused a loss of $20 billion to the US treasury. What if the other billionaires also do the same? Charity is just an excuse used by billionaires to spend money the way they want, without paying a fair share of tax.

[jaysabi]

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes. Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.

I am forced to post this, because a lot of people have been brainwashed into thinking that the Democrats are in favor of higher taxes for the rich. Democrat heavyweights such as Michael Bloomberg and George Soros always argue in favor of higher income and capital gains taxes. But the truth is that the Democrats only want the middle class to pay taxes. Billionaires such as Soros and Bloomberg never pays a penny in taxes, because they never sell any of their assets. Instead, they take loans by mortgaging their assets. And yet, they are thick skinned enough to gloat in the public that the "rich" should pay more taxes.

This is the reality behind the new "American families plan" by Joe Biden. The additional $6 trillion burden will fall on the middle class, while the uber-rich will continue to pay near-zero taxes.

According to the research by ProPublica, the billionaires in the US saw their wealth increasing by $401 billion between 2014 and 2018. And they paid a total of $13.6 billion in income taxes during this period (which corresponds to a rate of 3.4%). An upper middle class family in high-tax states such as California and New York are required to pay close to 60% of their income as taxes, while these people are paying around 1/20th of that amount.

If people still believe in Biden and his stupid spending plans, then the future looks hopeless for the United States.

Instead of repeating republican talking points about how democrats = taxes = bad, maybe read up on the fact that republicans created this system and always fight to keep it that way because if it wasn't for the rich and the religious extremists, they couldn't find anyone to vote for them.  What your post ignores is that Buffet and Bezos don't pay much in taxes because they don't really have income; their wealth comes from unrealized capital gains that aren't taxed until sold, and even then at far lower rates than income.  I haven't been in favor of a wealth tax, but when you put it like this, perhaps unrealized gains should be taxed. Republicans ought to sit down and shut up now, they are the reason the system is as screwed up as it is.

[teosanru]

Also Loopholes aren't always intentional but the laws are so complex that loopholes are automatically formed. Trust me writing a law is much more difficult than you think.

Most of the loopholes that are being used by these billionaires are not present in the original tax code. They were mostly added in the 1980s and 1990s. And I am surprised with your lenient view on the $20 billion tax avoidance by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill Gates may not use the proceedings for his own personal use. But the truth is that he caused a loss of $20 billion to the US treasury. What if the other billionaires also do the same? Charity is just an excuse used by billionaires to spend money the way they want, without paying a fair share of tax.

See my Lenient view comes from the fact that

1. Law is created in such a way that it is equal for all and everyone is tried in the same manner. The facts and the substance of the case can sometimes or in fact many times get ignored due to the form of transactions but our courts are designed to punish only on the basis of "form" and not "Substance". Think of it in this way, what if you and I really honestly want to open a charity and decide to donate everything to that charity. Should it be taxed? If your answer is no. Then even Bill Gates cannot be taxed. How will the courts or the tax authorities determine the difference of intent between us and Bill Gates? If your answer is yes, make sure you are going to give 30-40% of the charity which we want to do to the government itself?

2. Now let me keep this in a manner you will not like. Microsoft and many other companies developed infrastructure worth Billions in the US Alone! If the US today is called the biggest superpower it's solely because of these companies! Now, these companies could easily argue that we have delivered a profit of much more than 20$ Billion to the US Treasury itself. Also, we have provided thousands of jobs to the citizens of the US making their livelihoods better. This is the leverage that these companies carry and they use it to make sure they get these advantages in their favor.

3. Tax Planning is a tool that every citizen in every country uses. Even a little bit of avoidance too. I have not met a single individual saying that Hey government takes away 40% of my taxable profits because it's your right. If you have done it then you really either are too patriotic as well as empathetic or you have never gone to any Accountant. We do curse these corporates when we see them as citizens but when we ourselves make our business we make sure that we pay the least in taxes.

PS: I am not being a rightist who favours the corporates. I am just telling you the brutal reality! No one is here for charity and trust me "charity" is really a myth. Humans have always been competitive when it comes to survival and money. You are saying that Big Guns and these big corporates are enemies to society but they can easily argue that one cannot reach this level where they are without satisfying all their stakeholders!

Also, it's not that all Billionaires get away with Tax Evasions! Just heard today that Mcafee killed himself as he was being extradited to the US.

[icopress]

[...]

This is the essence of America ... Biden received 150 million purportedly anonymous donations, four times what Trump received, (therefore, I tend to agree that such measures are aimed at the pockets of wealthy middle-class Americans.). I would not be surprised that the lion's share of these donations was made by Bill Gates, since he fiercely criticized Trump in everything + he publicly approved the idea of raising taxes. One way or another, I will continue to adhere to the opinion of the Biden administration's distorted views on the current situation, (a simplistic view of wealth and disregard for financial discipline).

In addition, the Biden administration's claims that the tax code update will ultimately bring trillions of dollars into the budget ... are wrong, (in the sense that in reality it will only increase the public debt).

[Obito]

They have ways to not pay taxes and they are a big company so I think that it's pretty understandable that they didn't pay any taxes. Remember that US has lobbying so we should get used to companies not paying taxes.

[Vishnu.Reang]

2. Now let me keep this in a manner you will not like. Microsoft and many other companies developed infrastructure worth Billions in the US Alone! If the US today is called the biggest superpower it's solely because of these companies! Now, these companies could easily argue that we have delivered a profit of much more than 20$ Billion to the US Treasury itself. Also, we have provided thousands of jobs to the citizens of the US making their livelihoods better. This is the leverage that these companies carry and they use it to make sure they get these advantages in their favor.

Your arguments are not right. Here the tax avoidance is being done by Bill Gates and not by MSFT. Someone who hold $1,000 worth of MSFT shares need to pay 20% capital gains tax on his profit. But Bill Gates, who own $100 billion worth of MSFT shares will never pay any amount if these shares are sold, because the sale will be done by BMGF, which is a charitable trust. If the authorities are extending this tax benefit to all of the shareholders, then no one will complain. Here Bill Gates is getting a preferential treatment when compared to the other share holders.

[teosanru]

2. Now let me keep this in a manner you will not like. Microsoft and many other companies developed infrastructure worth Billions in the US Alone! If the US today is called the biggest superpower it's solely because of these companies! Now, these companies could easily argue that we have delivered a profit of much more than 20$ Billion to the US Treasury itself. Also, we have provided thousands of jobs to the citizens of the US making their livelihoods better. This is the leverage that these companies carry and they use it to make sure they get these advantages in their favor.

Your arguments are not right. Here the tax avoidance is being done by Bill Gates and not by MSFT. Someone who hold $1,000 worth of MSFT shares need to pay 20% capital gains tax on his profit. But Bill Gates, who own $100 billion worth of MSFT shares will never pay any amount if these shares are sold, because the sale will be done by BMGF, which is a charitable trust. If the authorities are extending this tax benefit to all of the shareholders, then no one will complain. Here Bill Gates is getting a preferential treatment when compared to the other share holders.

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. If you too tomorrow create a trust and transfer your shares into that you too will not be taxed. This is the law. BMGF is a 501(c)(3) organization. There are around 1.6 Million such tax-exempt foundations in the U.S. It wasn't bill gates who got preferential treatment, even a person like you can create such an institution if you have the right knowledge. If you are in India too, you can easily open a charitable Institution u/s 11 of Income Tax Act,1961.

Whenever your foundation sells the shares they will not be taxed. This is how it works.

While I am giving you a way of tax planning, you are just cribbing about the fact that Bill Gates used a tax loophole for tax planning. I am telling you the law is the same for a 1000$ Shareholder and Bill Gates if both of them don't sell it but transfer it to their charitable organization.

[jaysabi]

[...]

This is the essence of America ... Biden received 150 million purportedly anonymous donations, four times what Trump received, (therefore, I tend to agree that such measures are aimed at the pockets of wealthy middle-class Americans.). I would not be surprised that the lion's share of these donations was made by Bill Gates, since he fiercely criticized Trump in everything + he publicly approved the idea of raising taxes. One way or another, I will continue to adhere to the opinion of the Biden administration's distorted views on the current situation, (a simplistic view of wealth and disregard for financial discipline).

In addition, the Biden administration's claims that the tax code update will ultimately bring trillions of dollars into the budget ... are wrong, (in the sense that in reality it will only increase the public debt).

What disregard for financial discipline is that again? The majority of the top 10 budget deficits in history are under republican administrations. Republicans routinely run up the deficit by increasing spending and cutting taxes. America wouldn't be in such a dire financial situation if it wasn't for the massive debt accumulation that started with Regan and accelerated under Bush Jr. and Trump, who inherited the best economy in decades and shrinking deficits and managed to blow the deficit back up to over a trillion dollars a year.

In addition, the Biden administration's claims that the tax code update will ultimately bring in trillions of dollars are absolutely correct.  Clamp down on the tax cheats by hiring more IRS personnel and the program will pay for itself multiple times over without changing any tax laws, just enforcing the laws already on the books.  That's such an obvious fact it's stupid trying to pretend otherwise.

[fullhdpixel]

The example of Bill Gates was given in one of the previous posts. He never paid a penny in tax, despite owning around $100 billion worth of MSFT shares. The shares were transferred to Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and that means that these shares will never be taxed (because the foundation is classified as a charitable trust). The case of Bill Gates is known to everyone because it was publicized a lot. Other billionaires keep such transactions as secret. Nowadays charity trusts are one of the loopholes used to avoid tax.

That's technically both a great thing, and also not something we should care at all. I hate the rich as much as the next guy, I hate Bill Gates personally as well for his past (nowadays not so much) but giving all of your stocks to a charity foundation is not a tax fraud if it actually does work. He is not getting that money back, he is not profiting from it, and his charity actually helped Africa save tens of millions of people from dying and on top of that his latest investment turned out to be a company that saved the whole world with biontech.

So long story short it is a great thing that he did it, look at Jeff Bezos, dude got 10 billion dollars bail out money for his space place because he can, just because he can, not because he needed it, not because he couldn't do it without it, he had the money, dude literally bought james bond series a day later, he HAD the money, the only reason he got it was because he can and that's it. THATS the bad guy.

[AndySt]

They have ways to not pay taxes and they are a big company so I think that it's pretty understandable that they didn't pay any taxes. Remember that US has lobbying so we should get used to companies not paying taxes.

Lobbying for lobbying is a discord and lobbying does not necessarily have to be aimed at non-payment of taxes by large companies or very rich citizens. This is precisely why there are such branches of state power as the executive branch and the legislative branch, which must ensure that there is no abuse of such things. It is one thing when entrepreneurship is encouraged by low taxes, and it is quite another thing when large corporations with hundreds of billions of income enjoy such benefits.

[Sithara007]

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. If you too tomorrow create a trust and transfer your shares into that you too will not be taxed. This is the law. BMGF is a 501(c)(3) organization. There are around 1.6 Million such tax-exempt foundations in the U.S. It wasn't bill gates who got preferential treatment, even a person like you can create such an institution if you have the right knowledge. If you are in India too, you can easily open a charitable Institution u/s 11 of Income Tax Act,1961.

Whenever your foundation sells the shares they will not be taxed. This is how it works.

While I am giving you a way of tax planning, you are just cribbing about the fact that Bill Gates used a tax loophole for tax planning. I am telling you the law is the same for a 1000$ Shareholder and Bill Gates if both of them don't sell it but transfer it to their charitable organization.

How many of us can do this? You are posting, as if registering a charitable trust is an easy task. It takes a lot of paper work and is not financially viable for someone who holds MSFT shares worth $1000 to go through all these formalities. Now comes the next question. How can you be sure that BMGF used 100% of the funds for charity? A large part of the revenue earned after selling the shares were used for paying salaries and organizing conferences. Politicians or their cronies received indirect bribes in the form of salary or speaking fee. I don't have an issue if Bill Gates want to donate all his money to charity. But he should pay his taxes first before doing it. I don't care how the money was spent. Someone earning $3,000 per month has to pay his taxes honestly, and these guys who earn billions every year refuse to pay taxes. That is not fair.

[teosanru]

Now I am feeling as if I am the lawyer of Bill Gates and his foundation.  Anyway's I'll try to answer your question.

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. If you too tomorrow create a trust and transfer your shares into that you too will not be taxed. This is the law. BMGF is a 501(c)(3) organization. There are around 1.6 Million such tax-exempt foundations in the U.S. It wasn't bill gates who got preferential treatment, even a person like you can create such an institution if you have the right knowledge. If you are in India too, you can easily open a charitable Institution u/s 11 of Income Tax Act,1961.

Whenever your foundation sells the shares they will not be taxed. This is how it works.

While I am giving you a way of tax planning, you are just cribbing about the fact that Bill Gates used a tax loophole for tax planning. I am telling you the law is the same for a 1000$ Shareholder and Bill Gates if both of them don't sell it but transfer it to their charitable organization.

How many of us can do this? You are posting, as if registering a charitable trust is an easy task. It takes a lot of paper work and is not financially viable for someone who holds MSFT shares worth $1000 to go through all these formalities.

A Median household income of a person in the United States was [url text =$68000]https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-270.html[/url] for a year in 2019. Fast forward it to 2021, let's assume a fall of $10000 due to covid it's still around $58000.

Now firstly I already said that you need to have that required knowledge with you. Now Opening a 501(c)(3) trust account in the United States would cost you around $700 to open up as per this blog: https://www.bossonabudget.com/blog-1/2020/6/10/how-much-does-it-cost-to-start-a-nonprofit. Let's assume it's $1000. Now if a person whose tax is more than $1000 for the year can choose this option as it would be less costly for him than paying the tax directly. So a person has both the option it's up to him where he feels he is getting more advantage. Just Basic marginal costing of any business. Trust me opening a 501(c)(3) in the US or a Section 11 Organization in India isn't that difficult. Also if you are saying there is a lot of paperwork and everything, the same thing applies for Bill Gates too, he is also complying with the same formalities it's just that he has attorneys to handle that because his differential between tax and cost of setting up this institution is much higher.

Now comes the next question. How can you be sure that BMGF used 100% of the funds for charity? A large part of the revenue earned after selling the shares were used for paying salaries and organizing conferences.

Again a wrong Argument. I hope you understand activities known as Ancilliary activities. These are the activities done to achieve the primary goal of the institution and in every law around the world, these get the same status as that of the core activitiy.

Politicians or their cronies received indirect bribes in the form of salary or speaking fee. I don't have an issue if Bill Gates want to donate all his money to charity. But he should pay his taxes first before doing it. I don't care how the money was spent. Someone earning $3,000 per month has to pay his taxes honestly, and these guys who earn billions every year refuse to pay taxes. That is not fair.

So answer my simple question. You mean to say if a person earning $3000 per month decides to open a charity u/s 501(c)(3) because he is really a philanthropist, he too should be charged for 20-30% taxes first, and then he can do his charity?

I am not saying what Bill did was right, but I am trying to say what Bill has done can actually be exercised by anyone if your economies of scale allow.

[Obito]

~snip

Lobbying for lobbying is a discord and lobbying does not necessarily have to be aimed at non-payment of taxes by large companies or very rich citizens. This is precisely why there are such branches of state power as the executive branch and the legislative branch, which must ensure that there is no abuse of such things. It is one thing when entrepreneurship is encouraged by low taxes, and it is quite another thing when large corporations with hundreds of billions of income enjoy such benefits.

That doesn't mean that they won't do lobbying for tax deduction or exemption though, they know their power over the congress so they try and exploit it as much as possible while being subtle about it.

[Silberman]

This is a problem that is being faced everywhere . Wherever you go there are always cases like this or similar to it, where the upper class are being favored more than average and the lowest. I don’t live in the US, but this is the same issue that we are facing here in my country, the rich guys are the only ones that are being favored by the government.

The whole taxes are being dumped on the middle class, while the upper class enjoys paying less and making more money. And sometimes, some of them even avoid paying taxes. And it gets worse when it’s a country where corruption is high, you can hardly do anything against them because they can and always buy their way out of it.

But there is nothing to do, corruption exists everywhere even on the rich countries so the rich can just buy the politicians and pass laws that favor them, in fact they can even arrange laws that on the surface will make them pay a lot of taxes but it has so many loopholes that in fact helps them to avoid paying taxes, this is why bitcoin is a step on the right direction as it is a system that cannot be manipulated and changed at will, if only another satoshi appeared and could do the same for politics that would be great.

[Sithara007]

Again a wrong Argument. I hope you understand activities known as Ancilliary activities. These are the activities done to achieve the primary goal of the institution and in every law around the world, these get the same status as that of the core activitiy.

OK.. so you don't have any issue, if these "ancilliary activities" are being used for tax evasion or bribing. The justification is that some of this money is being used for charity in Africa or other regions and therefore we should tolerate this.

So answer my simple question. You mean to say if a person earning $3000 per month decides to open a charity u/s 501(c)(3) because he is really a philanthropist, he too should be charged for 20-30% taxes first, and then he can do his charity?

I am not saying what Bill did was right, but I am trying to say what Bill has done can actually be exercised by anyone if your economies of scale allow.

Yes. They should pay the tax. Just because some of the money is being used for charity, it should not be tax free. At least that should be the case for amounts in excess of $100 million. Here the American treasury is losing funds to the tune of $20 billion. The money that should be going to reduce the unemployment and welfare in the US is being diverted to some other country. That should be prevented.

[John Smithington]

I love this, wish i could show my brother aaahahahaha. but hes only a democrat because im not lol. Claim no party, claim no state of life. I am myself. and i am content. but these people and all of their deluded bullshit. its all just manipulation, but, hey. guess thats the way the world works now, right?
 

[teosanru]

Again a wrong Argument. I hope you understand activities known as Ancilliary activities. These are the activities done to achieve the primary goal of the institution and in every law around the world, these get the same status as that of the core activitiy.

OK.. so you don't have any issue, if these "ancilliary activities" are being used for tax evasion or bribing. The justification is that some of this money is being used for charity in Africa or other regions and therefore we should tolerate this.

See I am not a conspiracy theorist. Ancillary activities like confrence etc. Are perfectly fine but talking about bribery Is there any proof of that? Just a few conspiracy theorist article? If they have so much of proof why not drag him down to the courts? Power of masses has always been more than any business tycoon. If we are believing every conspiracy theory then illuminati are everything, what can us government do?

So answer my simple question. You mean to say if a person earning $3000 per month decides to open a charity u/s 501(c)(3) because he is really a philanthropist, he too should be charged for 20-30% taxes first, and then he can do his charity?

I am not saying what Bill did was right, but I am trying to say what Bill has done can actually be exercised by anyone if your economies of scale allow.

Yes. They should pay the tax. Just because some of the money is being used for charity, it should not be tax free. At least that should be the case for amounts in excess of $100 million. Here the American treasury is losing funds to the tune of $20 billion. The money that should be going to reduce the unemployment and welfare in the US is being diverted to some other country. That should be prevented.

Hahaha. You seem to be funny on this. you mean to say when a person does small charity, he shouldn't be taxed, but if he is doing bigger charity of over 100 million, he should be taxed?? You know how this law will be handled by any government? They would say that this type of law would encourage people to do lesser charity.
Also I suppose you live in Indian subcontinent, just tell me why do governments give tax saving options to everyone if they make investments in the economy?? Aren't the government losing that tax too? It's a delusion in the minds of people that taxes are everything in an economy.

[jaysabi]

Again a wrong Argument. I hope you understand activities known as Ancilliary activities. These are the activities done to achieve the primary goal of the institution and in every law around the world, these get the same status as that of the core activitiy.

OK.. so you don't have any issue, if these "ancilliary activities" are being used for tax evasion or bribing. The justification is that some of this money is being used for charity in Africa or other regions and therefore we should tolerate this.

See I am not a conspiracy theorist. Ancillary activities like confrence etc. Are perfectly fine but talking about bribery Is there any proof of that? Just a few conspiracy theorist article? If they have so much of proof why not drag him down to the courts? Power of masses has always been more than any business tycoon. If we are believing every conspiracy theory then illuminati are everything, what can us government do?

No, of course there is no evidence. People with low IQ just hate the rich because they themselves are not rich and they think the only reason someone could be rich then is because of corruption and not because they built a company that has become dominant in a major part of the economy. So they make up a lot of excuses and crazy conspiracy theories about why someone like Bill Gates could be rich while they are poor.  And the simple answer they don't want to believe is that instead of spending their time believing crazy nonsense, Bill Gates built a valuable company.

[teosanru]

Again a wrong Argument. I hope you understand activities known as Ancilliary activities. These are the activities done to achieve the primary goal of the institution and in every law around the world, these get the same status as that of the core activitiy.

OK.. so you don't have any issue, if these "ancilliary activities" are being used for tax evasion or bribing. The justification is that some of this money is being used for charity in Africa or other regions and therefore we should tolerate this.

See I am not a conspiracy theorist. Ancillary activities like confrence etc. Are perfectly fine but talking about bribery Is there any proof of that? Just a few conspiracy theorist article? If they have so much of proof why not drag him down to the courts? Power of masses has always been more than any business tycoon. If we are believing every conspiracy theory then illuminati are everything, what can us government do?

No, of course there is no evidence. People with low IQ just hate the rich because they themselves are not rich and they think the only reason someone could be rich then is because of corruption and not because they built a company that has become dominant in a major part of the economy. So they make up a lot of excuses and crazy conspiracy theories about why someone like Bill Gates could be rich while they are poor.  And the simple answer they don't want to believe is that instead of spending their time believing crazy nonsense, Bill Gates built a valuable company.

Haha actually I don't Blame those people too, people Never see the story on the other side, it's true for the riches too, they too are arrogant sometime and don't respect the story of the poor, but yes it's true that corruption , politics are part of story of every rich, but just corruption cannot take you anywhere, if it was so easy everyone could get rich by bribing a government official. It's entirely the hard work ,smart work and fortune of a person which can make him rich.