Can BTC exist without Fiat?

[19Nov16]

Bitcoin still exists even without fiat, Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin not to replace fiat, the use of bitcoin can be an asset in the future with bitcoin can be exchanged for gold not necessarily with fiat so bitcoin does not depend on fiat.

So true.  Bitcoin will continue to exist without fiat.  In the future I think fiat will be useless.  Technology is advancing, people will get used to owning digital currency because it is more flexible, secure, and more profitable to store it.

Yes, that's right, this is our hope, namely changing the fiat transaction system that has many rules, with the presence of bitcoin, all transactions are simple, fast, and of course more secure because we can fully control it.

[1715208131]

1715208131

[Semar Mesem]

The reason for this question is "The Standard for Deffered Payment".
If I want to buy goods worth $2000 and the seller offers a Deffered means of payment. I can pay $1000 and in later months pay the balance of $1000.
Can this happen with BTC, if not now but in the future.
Maybe I want to buy goods worth 0.2 BTC, I paid 0.1BTC, in the later months can I pay the balance of 0.1BTC without paying its equivalent in fiat?
Thank you.

It can be said that the presence of bitcoin has reduced the online transaction system, more and more online sites accept bitcoin so I'm sure without cash bitcoin will continue to survive.

[acener]

For me I think they could but how would we determine the value of crypto without Fiat?
And without Fiat I think crypto would be the main currency that would be used around the world.

[TWW]

For me I think they could but how would we determine the value of crypto without Fiat?
And without Fiat I think crypto would be the main currency that would be used around the world.

but is that possible?
Just look at the people who currently only believe in fiat. digital transactions now support moving their fiat money. would be very difficult to do all of that.
but if possible, everyone's choice when fiat is no longer in use is crypto. it's all waiting for strong regulations first regarding the use of crypto.

[Dhoe]

the presence of bitcoin is supported by fiat currency, bitcoin exchange must also be in fiat currency, because we buy everything must use fiat currency, so in my opinion bitcoin cannot stand alone without the help of others, bitcoin must have support from other devices to make it easier To work, bitcoin must have internet to facilitate bitcoin's performance, and bitcoin must have fiat currency support to facilitate exchange, they complement each other.

[AverageGlabella]

Fiat will always exist the same as Bitcoin will always exist. Fiat does not need Bitcoin to exist but at the moment Bitcoin probably does need fiat because most investors which are creating the pumps are doing it because they can withdraw out into fiat. We are not at the point where adoption is good enough to survive without fiat.

[Alanaz]

I think that Bitcoin can exist without fiat. Besides, fiat is going to be gone when governments develop their own digital currencies. Then there will be no fiat but cryptocurrencies will still continue to exist. In that situation, cryptocurrencies can be used in various places as the adoption will reach a much higher level than now. Otherwise, we will still need to convert it to the digital currencies that are developed governments.

there is no reason for bitcoin to be free from fiat that can be used as a pioneer for now because there is no clear reason. besides that fiat has also been used by humans for a long time so it cannot be replaced directly and if it can be replaced it will take a long time to get used to it. other than that I think fiat can be seen more transparently because it is still managed by the government because in bitcoin there are still many anonymous accounts due to the p2p system. but i like this system

[NotFuzzyWarm]

A better thing to consider is that per-definition of what Fiat is, Bitcoin actually IS (becoming) Fiat! That very first sentence in that Wiki link says,

Fiat money is a currency (a medium of exchange) established as money, often by government regulation.

Key point there are the words often by government regulation. There is no mandate that a government has to back it - but it is of course often the case.

The last bullet point in the Wiki regarding of examples of Fiat it says

An otherwise non-valuable object that serves as a medium of exchange[7] (also known as fiduciary money.)

Sure sounds a lot like what Bitcoin is criticized for - no intrinsic value.

The key things about the above is that Bitcoin fits all the requirements to become Fiat, aka, general purpose money All that is needed is for it to become a generally accepted medium of exchange.

[oktana]

Right now in the world, BTC cannot fully exist without fiat. Because those who you pay in BTC will want to convert to fiat to solve some challenges. However, BTC can do without fiat but the usage rate will drop. If user A gets paid in BTC and then he wants to buy something that user B sells, if user B supports BTC payment, the cycle is strengthened and will continue. Where it breaks is when a user needs fiat because the store he/she wants to purchase from does not accept BTC. In summary, existence rate of BTC without fiat is far lower than when it exists with fiat, but this doesn't mean that it is impossible to continue.

[South Park]

What is happening is that since the US dollar is the current wold currency then it makes sense that everything Is valued and compared against it, after all it is not as if other currencies are not compared against it all the time, so it is natural the same happens with bitcoin, so this is not something that people should worry about as it is completely natural, however we could come to the point in which the opposite is the truth and the value and the price of everything is compared against bitcoin instead of using the dollar for this.

I think valuing it against Bitcoin probably won't work. Maybe it could be a basket of cryptocurrency, but since Bitcoin is so volatile and we have no tools for monetary policy to stabilize it, valuing things against Bitcoin is unconceivable at the moment. As with gold, I doubt that Bitcoin will ever lose its volatility. It will become less volatile, but still too volatile to be the only crypto that goods and services are valued against.

Obviously I am not saying that this can happen immediately it could take decades or even longer but if bitcoin succeeds as a currency then this is a possibility, after all if countries all over the world are keeping the US dollar as their reserve currency and they are doing so despite the fact that it is being printed at an alarming rate then it makes sense that bitcoin could take its place as no one can just decide to print more bitcoin than what the current block reward allows.

[Mr.sprin]

The reason for this question is "The Standard for Deffered Payment".
If I want to buy goods worth $2000 and the seller offers a Deffered means of payment. I can pay $1000 and in later months pay the balance of $1000.
Can this happen with BTC, if not now but in the future.
Maybe I want to buy goods worth 0.2 BTC, I paid 0.1BTC, in the later months can I pay the balance of 0.1BTC without paying its equivalent in fiat?
Thank you.

It can be said that the presence of bitcoin has reduced the online transaction system, more and more online sites accept bitcoin so I'm sure without cash bitcoin will continue to survive.

I agree that bitcoin will survive even without fiat as currently many companies accept bitcoin and as you said on online sites have started to accept bitcoin, this is a sign that bitcoin will continue to exist even without fiat.

[cotton ball]

Fiat will always exist the same as Bitcoin will always exist. Fiat does not need Bitcoin to exist but at the moment Bitcoin probably does need fiat because most investors which are creating the pumps are doing it because they can withdraw out into fiat. We are not at the point where adoption is good enough to survive without fiat.

true as you said, for now we can't say bitcoin is better than fiat, because we all know that fiat currency doesn't need bitcoin, but bitcoin definitely needs fiat currency, to exchange, and buy our needs..

[romero121]

The reason for this question is "The Standard for Deffered Payment".
If I want to buy goods worth $2000 and the seller offers a Deffered means of payment. I can pay $1000 and in later months pay the balance of $1000.
Can this happen with BTC, if not now but in the future.
Maybe I want to buy goods worth 0.2 BTC, I paid 0.1BTC, in the later months can I pay the balance of 0.1BTC without paying its equivalent in fiat?
Thank you.

It can be said that the presence of bitcoin has reduced the online transaction system, more and more online sites accept bitcoin so I'm sure without cash bitcoin will continue to survive.

I agree that bitcoin will survive even without fiat as currently many companies accept bitcoin and as you said on online sites have started to accept bitcoin, this is a sign that bitcoin will continue to exist even without fiat.

When the direct usage of bitcoin increases automatically the dependence over the fiat will drop down. In reality such a scenario won't happen soon, it needs a big transition time. People need to get educated about the usage of bitcoin. If it has got some material like the paper money then it is an easy-to-use thing for all people. Now specific group of people are into bitcoin. This makes bitcoin to stay as an alternate to fiat and always have its dependence over fiat.

[Republikcoin.com]

Leaving FIAT and crypto side by side is a very appropriate choice, where one is given the freedom to choose one or both at once. We can all determine according to our needs by paying attention to the shortcomings and also the advantages of each instrument.
FIAT is more universal, but crypto mobility is better here. In some countries crypto is not accepted, but for transactions between countries FIAT is not flexible.
BTC without fiat, of course you can't. But fiat without BTC, makes something incomplete.

[pbateman1]

The real question is whether or not world governments would allow for such a scenario. Kleptocracy is more common than one might think, and sometimes comes in tandem with plutocracy. What's unique about the most powerful government, the United States, is that it is a very different form of kleptocracy than history has ever seen. Look at every store of value/means of transacting and we see that governments have always seized the predominant technology for this at one point or another. Think the 1930s, the US gov't seized mass amount of gold and silver, also Prodrazvyorstka in the Soviet Union.

In theory BTC could exist without fiat, but then government would lose control. Unless they owned a 51% interest in mining that is, which is technically feasible given the resources available although not likely because they know what would happen in that case.

Technologically speaking, BTC would be better off as an underlying store of value for a much speedier system layered on top. Kind of how gold backed the paper dollar, even though most of it was in vaults in New York/Kentucky, not in hand. BTC is digitally "heavy", just how gold is physically heavy and not easily moved en masse. The problem is, that requires trusting a third party. So someone would have to come up with a trustless way to implement that scenario. Ideally, this system would be cryptographically secure, but so speedy that the security of payment is as fast as a Visa transaction, or even better, like me handing you cash.

Financially speaking, Bitcoin would have to reach such maturity that the price of goods in BTC would not wildly fluctuate on a regular basis. We see this over long periods of time in fiat, which is kind of like a frog in boiling water effect. Somehow it all works out though because in real terms nobody is paying that much more for goods. Overnight price swings of 10% like we regularly see would not be acceptable in a crypto-only world though. I think we can get to this point once society as a whole realizes that instead of trusting that governments honor their obligations we could just hand that duty over to immutable mathematics and algorithms.  

So the answer is yes. But would it be allowed?

[zanezane]

I think it can exist, what it can't exist without is electricity. To prove that, just a simple look back at the 10k bitcoin pizza is enough proof that it can be used as a means of trading like a currency, but the problem is that we don't know yet if bitcoin can do the work in macroeconomics since there's seven billion people and it needs a really fast money circulation if we want bitcoin to be like fiat.

[AicecreaME]

The reason for this question is "The Standard for Deffered Payment".
If I want to buy goods worth $2000 and the seller offers a Deffered means of payment. I can pay $1000 and in later months pay the balance of $1000.
Can this happen with BTC, if not now but in the future.
Maybe I want to buy goods worth 0.2 BTC, I paid 0.1BTC, in the later months can I pay the balance of 0.1BTC without paying its equivalent in fiat?
Thank you.

I don't think cryptocurrencies particularly bitcoin will continue to exist without fiat. Fiat has been the primary means which people use in their daily transactions. In addition, it is also what the investors and traders usually exchange their cryptocurrency with and vice-versa. That is why I think crypto will not exist without fiat since depositing and withdrawing in crypto is usually bridged by fiat. Cryptocurrency still also needs a lot of upgrades of features and improvements of services offered. It has still a lot of loopholes IMO in terms of transacting (long transaction time, higher processing fees, etc), so the moment fiat will not be available, people will have a hard time.

Regarding your question, I think it's impossible to happen in bitcoin. I understood the scenario you provided as an installment payment. You'll give a half downpayment, and then you will pay the remaining balance in the next few months depending on the contract you signed. This is unlikely to happen in bitcoin unless the seller is very much open to the risks it possesses. The seller will just either profit higher or lose his money. The situation will depend on the market status and bitcoin's price value the moment you bought something via installment by giving the first half and then the remaining balance.

[liao chandra]

I think that if fiat didn't exist, then there's no need for bitcoin to be invented since it doesn't solve any fundamental problem plus if you think about it, what you're trying to say is a possible thing to happen unless there's no fiat existing that will elevate the value of bitcoin higher than the past value of it.

That's right, bitcoin was created to cover the weakness of fiat. If we have bitcoin, it's the same as investing. Because the value of bitcoin continues to increase. Whereas if we have fiat, it will not increase our money.

[goldade]

The reason for this question is "The Standard for Deffered Payment".
If I want to buy goods worth $2000 and the seller offers a Deffered means of payment. I can pay $1000 and in later months pay the balance of $1000.
Can this happen with BTC, if not now but in the future.
Maybe I want to buy goods worth 0.2 BTC, I paid 0.1BTC, in the later months can I pay the balance of 0.1BTC without paying its equivalent in fiat?
Thank you.

Maybe this will be possible in the future when bitcoin becomes fairly stable,  no one can tell. However, what I do know is that the price of bitcoin is too volatile to make this possible.
It is because of the great tendency for bitcoin to move either ways that  makes it impossible for this to happen. If one pays 0.1BTC now and promises to pay up in a month's time, there is no guarantee that the price of bitcoin would still be the same and this means the seller or the buyer would run at a loss

[Brendanaltmoon]

BTC has many similarities with conventional fiat, but also offer advantages. They can be used for payments and as a store of value. They need to rely on consumer trust in order to work as a means of exchange. Main thing about Fiat is they its controlled by banks. BTC on the other hand comes form mining and no one controls it. BTC is tamper-proof and can only be spent once. Cannot be reverse. To answer the topic question, I say BTC cannot exist alone. It needs fiat money to validate its importance or strength. Fiat is the standard and BTC or crytpo will be the Premium.