A problem with creating a new wallet on android version of electrum

[hosseinimr93]

I have created a wallet on android version of electrum and now I want to create a new wallet.
When I open the application, it only allows me to open the existing wallet and there is no option for creating a new wallet.
For creating a new wallet, I have to open the existing wallet first. The following image is the screen displayed after opening the application.



If I tap on "Cancel" button, I exit the application.
If I tap on the "wallets" icon above the screen, It takes me to a new screen where the "New" button is grayed out. (Shown in the image below)




Therefore, if you have forgotten the password of your existing wallet, there is no way to create a new wallet unless you remove electrum's data from your device.

Is this a bug? I doubt it's how it should be.
I am using the latest version of electrum (4.1.4)

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[ranochigo]

I reproduced this earlier. Looks like a bug, could you open a Github issue on this?

Edit: Anyways I forgot to mention. Kivy uses the same unified password across each of the wallets. It would make some sense if you can't create a new wallet. It is designed for all the wallets to be using the same password.

[Charles-Tim]

Someone will have to be very careful because ones the password is leaked to an attacker that got access to the device, he will be able to have access to other electrum wallets created on the Electrum app. I have just tried this on my mobile Electrum wallet and it is true. Although, I do not see as a problem but each wallet created having its own password will be more protective and best.

[ranochigo]

Someone will have to be very careful because ones the password is leaked to an attacker that got access to the device, he will be able to have access to other electrum wallets created on the Electrum app. I have just tried this on my mobile Electrum wallet and it is true. Although, I do not see as a problem but each wallet created having its own password will be more protective and best.

Electrum probably won't revert back to the previous behavior.

@hosseinimr93: Behavior seems to be related to the password system implemented after 4.1.0. I just tested it out and versions before the unified password works fine. Seems less of a bug to me.

[hosseinimr93]

Edit: Anyways I forgot to mention. Kivy uses the same unified password across each of the wallets. It would make some sense if you can't create a new wallet. It is designed for all the wallets to be using the same password.

Thanks for the information. I haven't noticed this. So, it's different from how the desktop version works.
As stated by Charles-Tim, I also believe that it would be better to allow users to have different passwords for different wallets.

Assume that I have written my password on a paper. I don't have access to the paper now and I want to create a new wallet. I have to delete all existing wallets for creating the new wallet.

@hosseinimr93: Behavior seems to be related to the password system implemented after 4.1.0. I just tested it out and versions before the unified password works fine. Seems less of a bug to me.

Thanks for the testing. I was going to install an old version to see how it works.
So, I think there is no need to open a github issue anymore.

[ranochigo]

Thanks for the information. I haven't noticed this. So, it's different from how the desktop version works.
As stated by Charles-Tim, I also believe that i would be better to allow users to have different passwords for different wallets.

Assume that I have written my password on a paper. I don't have access to the paper now and I want to create a new wallet. I have to delete all existing wallets for creating the new wallet.

Yes it is different.

Regarding your sentiments, someone has tried asking before and they seem to be pretty adamant on not going back on that. In fact they've been trying to make a single password for unlocking for a while now and 4.1.0 was their chance.

Edit: Found it https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/7208.

[HCP]

Ahhhh so that explains it... while investigating an issue for another user on the Android Electrum, I noted that you couldn't create a new wallet until you had unlocked an existing wallet. I thought it was strange and had made a mental note to go back and investigate further thinking that it might be a bug (and then promptly forgot).

I had not realised they had moved to a unified password system. Honestly, I don't really see an issue with it... it kind of makes sense on a mobile device... and most wallet apps have a single PIN or similar to access the app etc. anyway.

[BitMaxz]

It seems the issue is only for 4.1.4 because I can able to make a new wallet on an older version look below.(Luckily not yet upgraded to the latest version)



The button is not greyed out unlike yours.

[HCP]

It seems the issue is only for 4.1.4 because I can able to make a new wallet on an older version look below.(Luckily not yet upgraded to the latest version)

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/14/zFWxP.png

The button is not greyed out unlike yours.

Is that screenshot from when you click the "[-]" button on the initial "Password" screen when you start the app? Or after you have already entered your wallet password and clicked on the "3 dots" -> "Wallets" menu in the app?

[ranochigo]

It seems the issue is only for 4.1.4 because I can able to make a new wallet on an older version look below.(Luckily not yet upgraded to the latest version)

This only affects 4.1.0 and above. I would classify it as a feature rather than the issue. The password is supposed to be used for every wallet on the device, whether it gets created before or after the password is set. Preventing people from creating new wallets without knowing their current password would preserve the behavior.

[khaled0111]

I would classify it as a feature rather than the issue.

The problem is that there is no way to know about these major changes unless you visit the github repo and read the Relase_Notes each time there is a new release and I believe the majority of users don't do/don't like to do that.

I recently updated Electrum on my mobile (with many wallets on it) and wasn't aware of the new feature. Later, I created a new wallet and set a new password for it for testing purposes which I didn't save (since it was a testing wallet). Few days later, I was chocked that I couldn't access any of my main wallets using their original passwords. Luckily, I always back up my wallets seeds but you can imagine how unpleasant this experience was!

[BitMaxz]

Is that screenshot from when you click the "[-]" button on the initial "Password" screen when you start the app? Or after you have already entered your wallet password and clicked on the "3 dots" -> "Wallets" menu in the app?

Yes, it was and it works without entering the password you can recreate a new account the electrum version is 4.0.3 and it seems all new versions disable this?

3.3.8 version you can't make a new account the same as the latest Electrum 4.1.4 I already check on my old phone without wifi.

[HCP]

Yes, it was and it works without entering the password you can recreate a new account the electrum version is 4.0.3 and it seems all new versions disable this?

As mentioned by ranochigo... it's from version 4.1.0 onwards... as per the release notes:

# Release 4.1.0 - Kangaroo (March 30, 2021)

...

 * Password unification (Android only): When the Android app is
   started, the entered password is checked against all wallets in
   the directory. If the test passes:
    - all wallets are encrypted
    - new wallets will use the unified password
    - password updates are performed on all wallets
   Whether the password is unified can be seen in the GUI: In the
   'Settings' dialog, the description for the password setting is
   'Change password for this wallet' if the password is not unified,
   and becomes 'Change password' if password is unified.

[ranochigo]

The problem is that there is no way to know about these major changes unless you visit the github repo and read the Relase_Notes each time there is a new release and I believe the majority of users don't do/don't like to do that.

Should be a good practice though. Google does enable automatic updates for some reason by default.

I recently updated Electrum on my mobile (with many wallets on it) and wasn't aware of the new feature. Later, I created a new wallet and set a new password for it for testing purposes which I didn't save (since it was a testing wallet). Few days later, I was chocked that I couldn't access any of my main wallets using their original passwords. Luckily, I always buck up my wallets seeds but you can imagine how unpleasant this experience was!

I agree that it is a bit weird, probably would be better to include a changelog screen.

Anyways, that shouldn't be the correct behavior. After updating to 4.1.0 (and above), you have to unlock the wallet to create a new one and the newly created wallet has the same password as the wallet that you've unlocked. However, this shouldn't convert the passwords of any other wallets. If you go to Settings > Password, you should be able to see "Change your password for this wallet". This means that the password change only effects the current wallet.

[hosseinimr93]

Anyways, that shouldn't be the correct behavior. After updating to 4.1.0 (and above), you have to unlock the wallet to create a new one and the newly created wallet has the same password as the wallet that you've unlocked. However, this shouldn't convert the passwords of any other wallets.

I confirm this.
I created wallet A and wallet B with the version 4.0.9 and then updated electrum to 4.1.4. I unlocked wallet A and created wallet C.
There was no change in the password of wallet B.

If you go to Settings > Password, you should be able to see "Change your password for this wallet". This means that the password change only effects the current wallet.

I changed the password of wallet C using "Change your password for this wallet". Now I have three wallets with three different passwords.


I cleared electrum's data and created two new wallets (with 4.1.4)
I went to "setting" to check if it's possible to change the password of one the wallets without the other one being affected.

There was no "Change your password for this wallet". Instead, I have "Change your password" option.

Conclusion:
If all wallets have been created with the new version (4.1.0 and after that), there is no way to have different passwords for different wallets.
If you have already wallets with different passwords, even wallets created with 4.1.0 and after that can have unique passwords. (To do so, you must create a new wallet with a password same as one of existing wallets and then go to setting and change its password).

Let's say I create wallets A and B with 4.0.9. I update electrum to 4.1.4 and create wallets C and D. It's possible to have four different passwords for these four wallets.

[Pmalek]

I confirm this.
I created wallet A and wallet B with the version 4.0.9 and then updated electrum to 4.1.4. I unlocked wallet A and created wallet C.
There was no change in the password of wallet B.

Just to be 100% sure, have you tried unlocking wallet B before creating wallet C on 4.1.4 as well? Just to rule out the possibility that only the oldest wallet's password can be used as the "unlock password". That shouldn't be the case, but maybe the developers overlooked that part.

[hosseinimr93]

Just to be 100% sure, have you tried unlocking wallet B before creating wallet C on 4.1.4 as well?

Yes,
If you have wallets made with version 4.0.9 and before that, for creating a new wallet in version 4.1.0 and after that, you must unlock an existing wallet. It doesn't matter which one you unlock.
Once you open a wallet, it allows you to create a new wallet. The password of the new wallet will be same as the password of the wallet you unlocked.

[HCP]

Yikes... to my mind, all this password stuff has the potential to get quite messy

I can understand why the devs want to move to a unified password setup... I'm just not sure that this is the way to go about it, especially given that there is no "obvious" notification to the end user that the password model has changed.

[khaled0111]

Anyways, that shouldn't be the correct behavior. After updating to 4.1.0 (and above), you have to unlock the wallet to create a new one and the newly created wallet has the same password as the wallet that you've unlocked. However, this shouldn't convert the passwords of any other wallets. If you go to Settings > Password, you should be able to see "Change your password for this wallet". This means that the password change only effects the current wallet.

This is correct, but in my case I changed the password for the newly created wallet and since all my old wallets had the same password, the change affected all of them.
When I went to Settings - > Password, it said "change password" not "Change your password for this wallet".
Well, everything is well described on the release notes, but a small warning on the app would be nice too!

[Lucius]

I know I'm raising an old topic, but I have a problem that I also can't create a new wallet in the latest version of Electrum on Android, which is an upgrade from an older version. I have about a dozen wallets that I can open properly and they all have the same password, but when I try to create a new wallet the "next" button remains gray.

What is actually the easiest solution to this problem - or should I simply switch to another wallet, given that the Electrum team really annoys me with their "upgrades" that hardly make any sense (at least to me personally).